How striking is arenga engleri? (dwarf sugar palm)

[Gottagrowemall]

Central FL, palm coast 9b

 

I'll likely be going to a wholesaler to get some plants for my nursery soon. Clumping bamboo and some palms. Bismarks, mules, maybe a few others. I already have a frozen coconut and several others but I'm being tempted by some 45 gallon arenga engleri they have for sale. Would it be worth it to buy one for my personal landscape? They're not cheap lol.

[Kim]

Though not tall in stature, they take up a big footprint. Be sure you have the space for one. They can be really lovely when manicured, or can be somewhat untidy if left to go wild. I don't know if they grow well in Florida or not, but someone will say.

"...a frozen coconut." 🤔 😯 Do elaborate!

[Merlyn]

@Kim"frozen coconut" is a nickname for Beccariophoenix Alfredii.  I heard one of the guys at MB Palms calling it that, and wondered what the heck he was talking about... 

I have 11 Arenga Engleri clumps in the ground, they are one of my favorite cold-hardy pinnate palms.  The biggest was a 30g $250 pot from Lukas Nursery, I picked the best looking out of maybe 7 or 8 big pots.  I'd call them a moderate grower, not rocket fast but not slugs either.  They do cluster a lot, and will take up an easy 6' diameter footprint over time.  I like the silvery undersides of the leaves and frost hardiness into the low 20s.  Mine took zero damage at 24-25F with frost.  Here's a big one in shade at Leu Gardens:

Just make sure you don't accidentally get an Arenga Tremula, which look nearly identical but are defoliated around 28-30F.  The easiest way to tell them apart is the paired leaflets towards the base of the fronds.  An Engleri will have leaflets staying in a "V" pattern all the way to the bottom leaves.  A Tremula starts shifting to paired and multi-axis leaflets about halfway down.  I do have a Tremula...I found out the hard way it's not hardy!  😛

[Gottagrowemall]

1 hour ago, Kim said:

Though not tall in stature, they take up a big footprint. Be sure you have the space for one. They can be really lovely when manicured, or can be somewhat untidy if left to go wild. I don't know if they grow well in Florida or not, but someone will say.

"...a frozen coconut." 🤔 😯 Do elaborate!

The frozen coconut is better known as beccariophoenix alfreddii because the fronds look almost identical to my maypan coconut. The trunks do look different though. And my maypan takes wind WAY better.

[Gottagrowemall]

3 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

@Kim"frozen coconut" is a nickname for Beccariophoenix Alfredii.  I heard one of the guys at MB Palms calling it that, and wondered what the heck he was talking about... 

I have 11 Arenga Engleri clumps in the ground, they are one of my favorite cold-hardy pinnate palms.  The biggest was a 30g $250 pot from Lukas Nursery, I picked the best looking out of maybe 7 or 8 big pots.  I'd call them a moderate grower, not rocket fast but not slugs either.  They do cluster a lot, and will take up an easy 6' diameter footprint over time.  I like the silvery undersides of the leaves and frost hardiness into the low 20s.  Mine took zero damage at 24-25F with frost.  Here's a big one in shade at Leu Gardens:

Just make sure you don't accidentally get an Arenga Tremula, which look nearly identical but are defoliated around 28-30F.  The easiest way to tell them apart is the paired leaflets towards the base of the fronds.  An Engleri will have leaflets staying in a "V" pattern all the way to the bottom leaves.  A Tremula starts shifting to paired and multi-axis leaflets about halfway down.  I do have a Tremula...I found out the hard way it's not hardy!  😛

Thank you for the heads up, I will look closely at them. I'm looking at 240 for a 45 gallon. Yeah I'd like to have the clump be hardy because I'll be planting it in the front yard most likely. I do have some big areca clumps in the back but theyre near an oak tree which saves them from the frost.

[idontknowhatnametuse]

I also want this species but I don't know if anyone ships them to Mexico

[Gottagrowemall]

2 minutes ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

I also want this species but I don't know if anyone ships them to Mexico

They're pretty rare to be honest. I live in Central FL and i've only seen one in person once and i'm constantly looking.

[kinzyjr]

If you're patient, growing from seed is fun.  The seeds look like a dinosaur fingernail and you can get from 2 to 4 seeds out of the fruit.  There are 3 in my yard that I grew from seed.  The specimens down at Lake Wire are seeding constantly.  One thing to be aware of before harvesting seeds is that there is a chance you'll have a reaction to the fruit.  It might be worth it to see if you react to it since some of the staff react to the fruit and the pollen.  When they flower, they smell like perfume.

[Lou-StAugFL]

I have a nice one here in St. Augustine.  I have had it in the ground for probably 8 years or more.  It is very cold hardy and a beautiful dark green with silvery undersides.  I really like them. They seem to get a little bleached out in full sun, mine is understory and stays a nice color.

[DoomsDave]

@Gottagrowemall I heartily recommend Arenga engleri; I have about five or six in my garden, so I've had some experience.

First, they’re hardy to about the mid teens F, which comes in handy when the blue northers hit. 

Second, their habitat is much like Florida; I’d expect them to grow very well there. Warm and humid, with the odd cold spell.

Third, I call them the Magic Oriental Perfume Palm. When the flowers appear, they fill the air with wonderful perfume much like Sweet Olive, Osmanthus fragrans. 

There’s supposedly at least three variants; short, tall and medium. I’ve got the first two in my garden. 

My plants are in a row to hide the Most Ugly Roof on Earth, on top of my slightly downslope neighbors’ house. They do the job, too! There’s this dark hedge you can’t see through. You can hardly tell there's a house on the other side.

Even large plants are relatively easy to dig and move, if you're careful to make sure to water them afterward.

The short variant is about 6 - 8 feet tall, but at least as wide; it's got wide leaflets and a generally dense appearance. The tall type is about 15 feet tall, with a much airier look to it; i.e., more spaces between the individual leaflets. 

[DoomsDave]

Arenga engleri have some downsides, too.

They're SLOW from seeds and really small plants, which I think is the big reason they're hard to find in the nursery trade. I'd say a big tub plant has anywhere from 5 to 10 years' growth on it (Floridians are welcome to correct me, I'm going by California experience). $240 for a big tub specimen sounds reasonable, all things considered.

They also need grooming if they're in a spot that's going to be the center of attention. You'll need to remove dead leaves, and dead trunks periodically (Sawzall works great for that). They're monocarpic, i.e., stems bloom, then die, but, since they're multi trunkers, they'll keep putting out new trunks for about 25 or 30 years.

They need regular water, and aren't salt tolerant, from what I've heard. (Correct me if I'm wrong, someone.)

 

[sonoranfans]

there are many sizeable ones at bush gardens in tampa.   Their dark green(in shade) color contrasts nicely with the bismarckia they grow among them.  I have read they are recommended for shade only, they can look rough in full sun.  They do take a lot of space, too much for me.  I would love to find Arenga ryukyuensis a smaller more dense relative(6'-8' tall) that appears more attractive to me, less sparse and nicer leaflet arrangements but otherwise similar with white undersides of leaflets.  I remember Mike Evans had one in st pete it was very nice.  I never did find one, Arenga ryukyuensis are rare.  One thing to remember, the fruits are caustic, oxalic acid, it can burn your hands pretty bad.  Oxalic acid burns are very painful, use gloves when handling fruits and wash thoroughly when done.  Oxalic acid is poisonous if ingested it can be fatal.

[Bill H2DB]

   Here is mine , in Holly Hill Fla.  It's been there about 30 years . Each year , I remove several stalks that have completed blooming .

It is in a high canopy , and on well drained soil .

 

A. Englerii  5-'17 A by Bill H, on Flickr

 

[DoomsDave]

4 hours ago, Bill H2DB said:

   Here is mine , in Holly Hill Fla.  It's been there about 30 years . Each year , I remove several stalks that have completed blooming .

It is in a high canopy , and on well drained soil .

 

A. Englerii  5-'17 A by Bill H, on Flickr

 

That looks like a great example of an Arenga engleri Tall Type, much prettier than mine.

[Gottagrowemall]

5 hours ago, Bill H2DB said:

   Here is mine , in Holly Hill Fla.  It's been there about 30 years . Each year , I remove several stalks that have completed blooming .

It is in a high canopy , and on well drained soil .

 

A. Englerii  5-'17 A by Bill H, on Flickr

 

Very nice! Definitely gets big! I might use in an area to add a little privacy.

[Gottagrowemall]

On 10/10/2022 at 8:10 AM, Bill H2DB said:

   Here is mine , in Holly Hill Fla.  It's been there about 30 years . Each year , I remove several stalks that have completed blooming .

It is in a high canopy , and on well drained soil .

 

A. Englerii  5-'17 A by Bill H, on Flickr

 

Also I used to work at Metra Electronics so I probably have driven past this palm before.

[RJ]

On 10/9/2022 at 6:58 PM, sonoranfans said:

there are many sizeable ones at bush gardens in tampa.   Their dark green(in shade) color contrasts nicely with the bismarckia they grow among them.  I have read they are recommended for shade only, they can look rough in full sun.  They do take a lot of space, too much for me.  I would love to find Arenga ryukyuensis a smaller more dense relative(6'-8' tall) that appears more attractive to me, less sparse and nicer leaflet arrangements but otherwise similar with white undersides of leaflets.  I remember Mike Evans had one in st pete it was very nice.  I never did find one, Arenga ryukyuensis are rare.  One thing to remember, the fruits are caustic, oxalic acid, it can burn your hands pretty bad.  Oxalic acid burns are very painful, use gloves when handling fruits and wash thoroughly when done.  Oxalic acid is poisonous if ingested it can be fatal.

I have few Arenga ryukyuensis growing from seed that I obtained from a grower in the UK. Seem to do okay. But I think your right don’t like full sun .