Texas Examples of Washingtonia Survivors of 5F or Below.

[Collectorpalms]

Two Washingtonia survivors. What do you see? (They survived around 5F. )

[Collectorpalms]

Survived 2F. 

[knikfar]

I wonder if these could survive those low temps once every 5 to ten years or so. Minus the week below freezing. 

[SailorBold]

The origins of (robusta x filifera)x(filifera x robusta) hybrids..lol.. a future ID nightmare?

Washingtonia texana.

Nice hardy palms.. which isn't a bad thing.. they still burn at 18-20f tho..

Edited October 11, 2022 by SailorBold

[NBTX11]

I’ve seen some super thin Robusta like hybrids in New Braunfels that survived around 9 degrees or so.  You’d be hard pressed to tell it wasn’t a straight Robusta. Just saw one last night I’ll see if I can get a photo. 

[Xenon]

There are 3 balanced +/- looking hybrids on SH 6 in the rural area between Navasota and College Station. One of them is slightly more robusta looking. Pretty impressive for no heat island. 

[SailorBold]

Perhaps another observation would be prolific seed production.. either from hybrid vigor or a reaction from the event itself? That might be another way to ID hybrids....the length of rachis..number of rachis.. can't say I looked that closely before..

Edited October 11, 2022 by SailorBold

[TonyDFW]

These survived 3F in Dallas. 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

The beast of Carrollton 

[Collectorpalms]

On 10/11/2022 at 9:24 AM, knikfar said:

I wonder if these could survive those low temps once every 5 to ten years or so. Minus the week below freezing. 

I think on the northern edge, no. Some survived by dumb luck. A similar event that took out 90% may take out 90 % of those weakened survivors, and very quickly you get down to 1%. That was the 1970s and 1980s. Then there was a lapse of cold that allowed new palms to really grow and spread. 

But thinning of the weakest, had been going on with Washingtonia heavy on robusta genes. Starting from Dallas to Waco, then to Austin in 2011, then to Father south to San Marcos. 
 

Here is a Washintonia probably planted in the 1960s ( based on building records), that shows a lot of trunk constrictions and slumping of the pseudo-bark. But was trouble free from 1989 till 2021. Living on neglect at a rental helped it out from being taken out for esthetics. 

[knikfar]

1 hour ago, Collectorpalms said:

I think on the northern edge, no. Some survived by dumb luck. A similar event that took out 90% may take out 90 % of those weakened survivors, and very quickly you get down to 1%. That was the 1970s and 1980s. Then there was a lapse of cold that allowed new palms to really grow and spread. 

But thinning of the weakest, had been going on with Washingtonia heavy on robusta genes. Starting from Dallas to Waco, then to Austin in 2011, then to Father south to San Marcos. 
 

Here is a Washintonia probably planted in the 1960s ( based on building records), that shows a lot of trunk constrictions and slumping of the pseudo-bark. But was trouble free from 1989 till 2021. Living on neglect at a rental helped it out from being taken out for esthetics. 

That's my thought to. I can't imagine ever getting more than a few years, without protection, with a washy here in Raleigh. There's a guy in the Winston-Salem area who's had a Washy for over 10 years and its big. But he wraps it up every few winters. And at some point, that won't be possible. 

[Collectorpalms]

On 10/11/2022 at 11:27 AM, SailorBold said:

Perhaps another observation would be prolific seed production.. either from hybrid vigor or a reaction from the event itself? That might be another way to ID hybrids....the length of rachis..number of rachis.. can't say I looked that closely before..

My observation locally is the more Robusta in a palm, the younger in age they begin seeding. A More tender Washingtonia can start with seeds in 15 years or less.
A Filifera requires full sun and may do it in 20 or more years. Possibly sooner if in full all day blasting heat and sun. My first picture reflects the one on left flowering but the one on right not.

This county IMHO was the extreme northern limit of any Filibusta survivors not given sheltered ( exposed by strong winds) by a tall building on its north side. 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Another Carrollton Washingtonia. There’s another one on property that is thinner trucked but couldn’t snap a pic because they are doing construction and scaffolding blocks it

[NBTX11]

12 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

My observation locally is the more Robusta in a palm, the younger in age they begin seeding. A More tender Washingtonia can start with seeds in 15 years or less.
A Filifera requires full sun and may do it in 20 or more years.

My Robusta that died in Feb 21 seeded in about 13-14 years.  My Filifera seeded this year at about age 18 years.  It is in full sun.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

I think based on what I've seen from living in DFW and Austin since Palmagaeddon my Washingtonia strategy for north and central Texas is to start with locally sourced filifera seeds, plant in ground, and start with a couple dozen. As they grow and as they go through winter, taking careful note of which ones burn if any and more than likely removing it at that point before it can grow tall and be a burden to remove. If you want to have 3 nice looking Washingtonia for the long term, then start with 12

 from what I've seen from going back through Google maps is that you can basically predict which ones are gonna bite the dust in the next big freeze. Ones in Austin that got fried pretty bad in 2018 all died last year while ones that stayed green that year did pretty well last year. I think that there is a lot that we do not know about the Washingtonia species and it can be kind of a crapshoot, you have 50/50 hybrids surviving up in dfw, and then pure filifera being wiped out down to Austin. Just have to plant some and see how they do. There are always ones that are weaker and just haver to weed those out before it costs you thousands 

Edited October 15, 2022 by DreaminAboutPalms

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Pic 1: Addison tx

pic 2 &3: waco

pic 4: Temple, tx

[Collectorpalms]

3 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Pic 1: Addison tx

pic 2 &3: waco

pic 4: Temple, tx

Those trio of Washingtonia Hybrids in Temple had rope lights on them. They were evident on them still in April 2021 street view. Question is if they are regular heat producing ones or not, led... They were all the way into the crown on the surviving one, whereas the other end one seems to be burnt out. The middle one looked the weakest to begin with. Who knows.

[MarcusH]

On 10/15/2022 at 5:42 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

I think based on what I've seen from living in DFW and Austin since Palmagaeddon my Washingtonia strategy for north and central Texas is to start with locally sourced filifera seeds, plant in ground, and start with a couple dozen. As they grow and as they go through winter, taking careful note of which ones burn if any and more than likely removing it at that point before it can grow tall and be a burden to remove. If you want to have 3 nice looking Washingtonia for the long term, then start with 12

 from what I've seen from going back through Google maps is that you can basically predict which ones are gonna bite the dust in the next big freeze. Ones in Austin that got fried pretty bad in 2018 all died last year while ones that stayed green that year did pretty well last year. I think that there is a lot that we do not know about the Washingtonia species and it can be kind of a crapshoot, you have 50/50 hybrids surviving up in dfw, and then pure filifera being wiped out down to Austin. Just have to plant some and see how they do. There are always ones that are weaker and just haver to weed those out before it costs you thousands 

In San Antonio outside of loop 410 many robustas didn't make it especially in the northern part of SA.  Stick "at least "with Filibusta they seem to be OK with our artic winters at least here in South Central TX . More businesses who planted washingtonias replaced them with sabal palms after their Robustas died. You see a lot of new sabals being planted in our area . 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

I found this post reading through another forum and it perfectly described my experience growing hybrids from seed. Anyone else seen similar results? This is why I think in Texas you need to start with like a dozen if you want to end up with 4 that survive long term. Hybrids are a crapshoot

[Collectorpalms]

12 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

I found this post reading through another forum and it perfectly described my experience growing hybrids from seed. Anyone else seen similar results? This is why I think in Texas you need to start with like a dozen if you want to end up with 4 that survive long term. Hybrids are a crapshoot

This is true if you are collecting Washingtonia seeds in a location with Filibusta, and then picking seeds from a Filifera or Robusta Washingtonia hoping to get a palm like the parent. There is going to be a hodgepodge of various offspring if pollination was possible with a hybrid with just about any plant. 
For Washingtonias Pollination is either by self pollination, wind, or by insects like bees. 

However, with the near Annihilation in 2021 in north and central Texas of Washingtonia, the stand alone survivors I have collected seeds from are far removed from any other Washingtonia to cross pollinate. 
Therefore, the offspring are going to be self pollinated, as Washingtonia do self pollinate. And the only genetic material is going to be from that palm, so the offspring will come true to the parent, which in north and central Texas outside of any advantage of a tall building or urban center are going to be Filifera. 

Another observation this year I didn’t notice any insects like bees pollinating my surviving Washingtonia Hybrid Rocket that flowered. It didn’t pollinate well ( never saw a bee orgy), and aborted a lot of the seeds. Since it’s a stand alone survivor, as my other Washingtonia did not flower this year, the offspring are going to be consistent, much like Sabal Birmingham and Sabal Brazoria. Though those generations have stayed consistent because it understood that Sabals rarely hybridize, maybe for various reasons. 
 

As another example, I am growing Filifera from a native California stand collected last year, and seeds from a surviving TX Filifera that produced seeds last fall. I waited to germinate them this spring. After 6 months they look identical, and different than the hybrids offspring that randomly sprouted in my yard from parents that died in 2021, and survived under the snow. 


 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

On 10/20/2022 at 7:17 AM, Collectorpalms said:

This is true if you are collecting Washingtonia seeds in a location with Filibusta, and then picking seeds from a Filifera or Robusta Washingtonia hoping to get a palm like the parent. There is going to be a hodgepodge of various offspring if pollination was possible with a hybrid with just about any plant. 
For Washingtonias Pollination is either by self pollination, wind, or by insects like bees. 

However, with the near Annihilation in 2021 in north and central Texas of Washingtonia, the stand alone survivors I have collected seeds from are far removed from any other Washingtonia to cross pollinate. 
Therefore, the offspring are going to be self pollinated, as Washingtonia do self pollinate. And the only genetic material is going to be from that palm, so the offspring will come true to the parent, which in north and central Texas outside of any advantage of a tall building or urban center are going to be Filifera. 

Another observation this year I didn’t notice any insects like bees pollinating my surviving Washingtonia Hybrid Rocket that flowered. It didn’t pollinate well ( never saw a bee orgy), and aborted a lot of the seeds. Since it’s a stand alone survivor, as my other Washingtonia did not flower this year, the offspring are going to be consistent, much like Sabal Birmingham and Sabal Brazoria. Though those generations have stayed consistent because it understood that Sabals rarely hybridize, maybe for various reasons. 
 

As another example, I am growing Filifera from a native California stand collected last year, and seeds from a surviving TX Filifera that produced seeds last fall. I waited to germinate them this spring. After 6 months they look identical, and different than the hybrids offspring that randomly sprouted in my yard from parents that died in 2021, and survived under the snow. 


 

Spot on. There are very few places with only Filifera, and last years event provides us with an interesting opportunity up here in north/central Texas to repopulate the correct way. I’ve started my mass guerrila seed throwing operation in Downtown Dallas

[NBTX11]

5 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Spot on. There are very few places with only Filifera, and last years event provides us with an interesting opportunity up here in north/central Texas to repopulate the correct way. I’ve started my mass guerrila seed throwing operation in Downtown Dallas

I have thrown about 10,000 seeds around New Braunfels. There are a lot of palms already but this should make them explode.