Sources for large-growing Sabal spp

[PalmatierMeg]

I am already pondering how I can begin rectifying all the damage done to our gardens by Hurricane Ian but for the past 3 weeks I've been hindered by lack of internet. It looks like things are finally back up and running.

In our Garden Lot we lost 4 of 6 large Bismarckias while the remaining 2 are badly damaged and may not survive. We also lost both of our Livistona australis and one Livistona decora. These large palms blocked  our view of the LCEC electric substation aka Osama bin Laden's FL Vacation Compound. Given the horrific carnage done to those 3 species I am hesitant to replant them. I am convinced that trunking Sabals planted as wind breaks can protect a building from storm damage.

My husband has expressed interest in establishing a second Sabal Row in the Garden with emphasis on larger trunking Sabals: causiarum, domingensis, maritima. Our original Sabal Row is not planted on our property and continues to exist only at the whims of whoever owns/develops that lot. Development was scheduled for later this year but the housing market in Cape Coral is now the most overpriced in the country so who knows? That lot is also piled with uprooted invasive Australian pines after the hurricane. The monster S. causiarum in the Row is my husband's favorite palm species and he would be crushed if it were cut down. And Ian also stripped most of our surviving palms of seeds so that source is lost.

My husband is hoping we can locate a reliable source of seedlings for these species or bigger examples that may be within driving distance if too large to ship. I know many people on the Forum are familiar with these Sabals and know where to find them. I would love to find and plant them so they can begin growing ASAP. I would much rather have some large Sabals than subject our yard to yet another round of unstable tropical trees.

I am also looking for a source of Livistona decora.

If you have suggestions, please post them.

[sonoranfans]

Meg, I have a few sabal causiarum seedlings from my big one that I will donate to the cause.  I have (3) seedlings in 4" x 14" pots and one in 5 gallon that is starting to divide the newest leaf, all are very ready for upsizing, the 5 gallon could go in the ground I think.  I could drop them off, no experience how to ship them.  Or if you want to come get them I am within 2 miles of interstate 75/275 junction near bradenton area

[Jubaea_James760]

I have 2 or 3 maritima seedlings in liners I'd be willing to donate. I'm sure you'd like some bigger ones but in the case you can't find any please reach out to me & I'll ship them to you 👍

James

[sonoranfans]

Here are the seedlings I mentioned Meg:  The 5 gallon one is 3' tall not including pot(fence is 4').

[Merlyn]

Though not a PalmTalk member, I think Robert knows NatureGirl and grows and sells semi-rare palms on Etsy.  I've bought several palms from him, and at least one Causiarum.  If you are interested just message him with how many you want and he'll put together a package with combined shipping.  https://www.etsy.com/listing/878113581/sabal-causiarum-palm-tree

Edit: did you have any Livistona Chinensis in the area?  I have a row on the West side of my house with 6 Chinensis, 2 Causiarum, and 1 big Reclinata cluster.  It's my attempt at a "Sabal row" type of wind and sun break.  I'd be interested to know if Chinensis did better or worse than the other Livistonas that got whacked.

[JohnAndSancho]

5 hours ago, Merlyn said:

Though not a PalmTalk member, I think Robert knows NatureGirl and grows and sells semi-rare palms on Etsy.  I've bought several palms from him, and at least one Causiarum.  If you are interested just message him with how many you want and he'll put together a package with combined shipping.  https://www.etsy.com/listing/878113581/sabal-causiarum-palm-tree

I wish he shipped to Texas. 

[Merlyn]

I just remembered the other place I bought Causiarum....big liners from @Josh-O.

[PalmatierMeg]

On 10/19/2022 at 4:25 PM, Merlyn said:

Though not a PalmTalk member, I think Robert knows NatureGirl and grows and sells semi-rare palms on Etsy.  I've bought several palms from him, and at least one Causiarum.  If you are interested just message him with how many you want and he'll put together a package with combined shipping.  https://www.etsy.com/listing/878113581/sabal-causiarum-palm-tree

Edit: did you have any Livistona Chinensis in the area?  I have a row on the West side of my house with 6 Chinensis, 2 Causiarum, and 1 big Reclinata cluster.  It's my attempt at a "Sabal row" type of wind and sun break.  I'd be interested to know if Chinensis did better or worse than the other Livistonas that got whacked.

Thanks for the lead.

Livistona chinensis looks really terrible around here: stunted, wimpy and generally sickly. I seldom see it. I don't know if our endless swelter is to blame or our alkaline soil. I've seen photos of them grown up north and they are beautiful - just not here. I don't know if chinensis could deal with cat 4/5 winds - their leaves are like little sails. L. decora has deeply cut fronds and pinnae that cascade like fountains (hence the "ribbon palm" moniker) which I think cuts down on leaf damage. L. nitida does poorly here, too as does L. carinensis.  Livistona decora is the fastest, hardiest of its kin I know. I have 3 that have taken on Irma and Ian and survived. I lost one of two on my Garden Lot to Ian but I suspect it was crushed by one of my husband's tropical flowering trees that couldn't take the wind. Also, mature decora shed dead, dry fronds. Our two late L. australis did not and both ended up on the ground. But I think the Sabal genus takes the prize in hurricane resistance. All of mine survived Ian's winds

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Livistona chinensis looks really terrible around here: stunted, wimpy and generally sickly. I seldom see it. I don't know if our endless swelter is to blame or our alkaline soil.

That's surprising - it's pretty sweltering here as well as alkaline soil and they look pretty good here.  Great to see that you're OK and posting again!  Hope life gets back to some semblance of normal soon.

 

[PalmatierMeg]

18 hours ago, Fusca said:

That's surprising - it's pretty sweltering here as well as alkaline soil and they look pretty good here.  Great to see that you're OK and posting again!  Hope life gets back to some semblance of normal soon.

 

L. chinensis look nothing like that here.

[Merlyn]

On 10/20/2022 at 5:17 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

Thanks for the lead.

Livistona chinensis looks really terrible around here: stunted, wimpy and generally sickly. I seldom see it. I don't know if our endless swelter is to blame or our alkaline soil. I've seen photos of them grown up north and they are beautiful - just not here. I don't know if chinensis could deal with cat 4/5 winds - their leaves are like little sails. L. decora has deeply cut fronds and pinnae that cascade like fountains (hence the "ribbon palm" moniker) which I think cuts down on leaf damage. L. nitida does poorly here, too as does L. carinensis.  Livistona decora is the fastest, hardiest of its kin I know. I have 3 that have taken on Irma and Ian and survived. I lost one of two on my Garden Lot to Ian but I suspect it was crushed by one of my husband's tropical flowering trees that couldn't take the wind. Also, mature decora shed dead, dry fronds. Our two late L. australis did not and both ended up on the ground. But I think the Sabal genus takes the prize in hurricane resistance. All of mine survived Ian's winds

Thanks for the detailed info, that is really useful!  If I had to guess I'd think Chinensis might be better than Bismarckia, just due to fan size.  Local Livistona of all types (Decora, Chinensis, Nitida) were undamaged at 40-75mph sustained, but a bunch of Bismarckia had broken petioles and fans all ripped up.  I didn't get a chance to watch Ian's winds at their peak here, as it was dark and the power was already out. 

Not surprisingly, I haven't found any macrame here... 

[ruskinPalms]

Bizmarckia took a beating all around the area but worse the closer towards ground zero. Mine got really beat up as I still live in a relatively undeveloped area and my house and yard were very open to the direction the winds came from. My parents live in south Venice and pretty much lost all trees except palms. Their native Sabals look unfazed and pristine. So does the big old totem pole of a Washingtonia hybrid that I planted years ago as a dinky little thing which I thought was interesting, and a CIDP I planted years ago really small.  For the record, my bizzies in my yard were planted small too and while took lots of frond damage, showed no hint of leaning or falling over. Planting small definitely has its advantages in hurricane country as the root systems are way better developed that way as they get older but I saw no where near what cape coral saw here so I think palms from hurricane prone areas are the best bet around here. (Does Madagascar even see tropical cyclones of this strength?)

 

[RJ]

I picked up a couple overgrown 15g sabal causiarum a few years ago at a nursery in FL. This was definitely on the east coast as I was driving back from Stuart. I think I paid $75 each. If you want I can try to dig up the name of the place. However it’s certainly not convenient. 

[Jimbean]

On 10/17/2022 at 1:55 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

....of the LCEC electric substation aka Osama bin Laden's FL Vacation Compound.

hahahaha what?!

[tt68camaro]

I find plantant to be a very good source when looking for something specific. Technically it's for the wholesale trade but every place I have went was happy to sell to collectors. Just change the search and it will show the suppliers sizes and even pictures a lot of times.

 

https://www.plantant.com/find-plants#!name=sabal causiarum&plant=1020615

[PalmatierMeg]

5 hours ago, RJ said:

I picked up a couple overgrown 15g sabal causiarum a few years ago at a nursery in FL. This was definitely on the east coast as I was driving back from Stuart. I think I paid $75 each. If you want I can try to dig up the name of the place. However it’s certainly not convenient. 

Thanks. I found a source for causiarum so you are off the hook

[PalmatierMeg]

4 hours ago, tt68camaro said:

I find plantant to be a very good source when looking for something specific. Technically it's for the wholesale trade but every place I have went was happy to sell to collectors. Just change the search and it will show the suppliers sizes and even pictures a lot of times.

 

https://www.plantant.com/find-plants#!name=sabal causiarum&plant=1020615

Great. Thanks for the lead

[PalmatierMeg]

4 hours ago, Jimbean said:

hahahaha what?!

You have to see it. And bin Laden was still most wanted when we bought the lot so the name stuck.

[idontknowhatnametuse]

I have multiple Sabal Gretheriae, I would donate a palm but I'm just 15 years old and unfortunately I don't know how to donate. But if you can get a Sabal Gretheriae in florida that would be great.

They are huge palms, here's some photos of them in habitat in Chiquilá, Quintana Roo.

Also fun fact: The palms in the first photo are the same palms that are shown in the rarepalmseeds Sabal Gretheriae page. https://www.rarepalmseeds.com/es/sabal-gretherae

Edited October 23, 2022 by idontknowhatnametuse

[RJ]

8 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Thanks. I found a source for causiarum so you are off the hook

Just reread that post. Gosh, that didn’t come out right. I was trying to allude that the nursery I went to wouldn’t be convenient to you as it’s along 95.  Not that it was inconvenient for me to look up…

Meg, most of us on this forum would and will always bend over backwards for you. 👍 

 

[PalmatierMeg]

20 hours ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

I have multiple Sabal Gretheriae, I would donate a palm but I'm just 15 years old and unfortunately I don't know how to donate. But if you can get a Sabal Gretheriae in florida that would be great.

They are huge palms, here's some photos of them in habitat in Chiquilá, Quintana Roo.

Also fun fact: The palms in the first photo are the same palms that are shown in the rarepalmseeds Sabal Gretheriae page. https://www.rarepalmseeds.com/es/sabal-gretherae

That is so sweet and kind of you. But nowadays international shipping rates and customs rules pretty eliminate shipping plants outside our home countries. I actually got S grethereae seeds from RPS a few years back before they went crazy with all the phytosanitary permits and have at least one planted in our Garden Lot. Haven’t checked if they survived since Ian but I would bet yes.

[PalmatierMeg]

15 hours ago, RJ said:

Just reread that post. Gosh, that didn’t come out right. I was trying to allude that the nursery I went to wouldn’t be convenient to you as it’s along 95.  Not that it was inconvenient for me to look up…

Meg, most of us on this forum would and will always bend over backwards for you. 👍 

 

No big deal. I figured you were just being candid.