Jubaeopsis Caffra hybridation info

[rarepalmaddict]

Hello, I would like some advise from palm hybridisors expert regarding the: "Jubaeopsis Caffra" hybridation in order to emprove its frost hardiness.

I was wondering if: "Jubaeopsis Caffra", could be hybridised in both ways with: "Jubaea Chilensis", for exemple,

a) Jubaea Chilensis x Jubaeopsis Caffra 

b) Jubaeopsis Caffra x Jubaea Chilensis 

Or using other species listed below would better fit for better hybrids such as having Jubaeopsis Caffra hybrids being Abel to be self F2 seeds fertile,

Jubutia

Jubutiagrus 

What would you advise?

Thanks !

 

 

 

[BeyondTheGarden]

Looks like they're pretty closely related, genetically. 

Butia has certainly made its rounds with over half of the genera within my little red circle here.  It seems to be the most reproductively promiscuous palm around. 

[rarepalmaddict]

Do you mean only Butia would make it in both ways, Butia x Jubaeopsis Caffra and Jubaeopsis Caffra x Butia ?

My second question is, for a better frost resistant palm Can I cross Jubaea Chilensis x Jubaeopsis Caffra and Jubaeopsis Caffra x Jubaea Chilensis ???

Is it also possible to cross in both ways also with Jubutia ???

Thank you for your support.

[NWpalms@206]

following...

[PalmatierMeg]

5 hours ago, rarepalmaddict said:

Do you mean only Butia would make it in both ways, Butia x Jubaeopsis Caffra and Jubaeopsis Caffra x Butia ?

My second question is, for a better frost resistant palm Can I cross Jubaea Chilensis x Jubaeopsis Caffra and Jubaeopsis Caffra x Jubaea Chilensis ???

Is it also possible to cross in both ways also with Jubutia ???

Thank you for your support.

I think he’s saying there just may be a chance for hybridization because those genera are more closely related to each other than to any other palm species. Whether all of them have hybridized with Butia or each other is another matter that may require DNA studies. The question you should ask is whether anyone concerned with palm cultivation has actually tried and succeeded with Jubaeopsis hybrids.

If you study the species in @Jesse PNW’s red oval you will notice some species are closer related than others, i.e., Jubaea & Butia are shaking hands they are so close. Note Jubaeopsis at the bottom by itself. It eventually connects to lines that ultimately lead back to Jubaea & Butia but it has several levels of genetics in between. That tells me that chances of hybridization may be several levels removed, too.

Over my dozen years on PT, a few people have tried and even fewer proclaimed victory at crossing Cocos nucifera with fellow genera in that red circle in an attempt to improve Cocos hardiness. But no one has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, i.e., genetic studies, that he has successfully hybridized Cocos with anything. That may be the case with Jubaea and Jubaeopsis. But you’ll only find out by trying.

[rarepalmaddict]

If I have chosen Jubaea Chilensis at number one it is because it is the most frost Hardy specie, tougher then Butia.

But I want to make sure before I get envolved in this project which specie is recomended by experts for a 100% success result, wich specie will make the hybrid self pollinated or wich one will make it a  backross pollinated palm like the mule:" butiagrus?

These criterias should be Taken seriously into account when Time Comes to choose the best adéquate palm to hybrydise 

 

[Tropicdoc]

I’ve seen on Palmtalk experts saying chromosome numbers or something prevents hybrids with jubaeopsis and also beccariophoenix 

[rarepalmaddict]

That is why I'm posting this request in order to have an Real expert who knows what he is talking about.

I'm not a scientist and get in trouble Reading documents explaining all chromosome, DNA things.

It would be nice to have a child  chart showing what goes with what.

Edited October 24, 2022 by rarepalmaddict

[PalmatierMeg]

1 hour ago, rarepalmaddict said:

If I have chosen Jubaea Chilensis at number one it is because it is the most frost Hardy specie, tougher then Butia.

But I want to make sure before I get envolved in this project which specie is recomended by experts for a 100% success result, wich specie will make the hybrid self pollinated or wich one will make it a  backross pollinated palm like the mule:" butiagrus?

These criterias should be Taken seriously into account when Time Comes to choose the best adéquate palm to hybrydise 

 

I don't believe anyone can guarantee 100% of anything having to do with palm hybridization. If they claim they can they are deluded or lying. Someone has to actually do it and prove he did it before he can claim it. If someone is pressuring you to "invest" in his idea of creating cold hardier Jubaeopsis or Cocos be very wary. If that is your idea, I suggest you begin an in-depth study of palm genetics so you can understand how to achieve your goal. Other potential hybridizers precede you. A good basic place to start is to find and read the reference General Palmarum (updated 2014). It is much more in-depth and dense than the typical palm ID books from Amazon. I actually have a copy and started reading it through but failing vision derailed me from finishing it. Very scientific and detailed but necessary. I didn't get as far as finding out the magic bullet for hybridization but numbers, combinations and arrangements of chromosomes plays a part, i.e., you likely can't hybridize a palm containing 100 chromosomes with one with 600 (#s are plucked out of my head). Or you could make friends with a PhD in palm genetics and pick his brain. Actually, it all sounds like fun to me (I'm an egghead at heart) and I'd do it myself if I could see worth #$#*(&.

[Foxpalms]

What is jubaeopsis hardy too? I've heard 9a from some sources and 9b from other ones. I'm presuming it also is more hardy in a dry climate.

[rarepalmaddict]

I am in zone 8A

[Tropicdoc]

9a wasn't too friendly to my jubaeopsis

[BeyondTheGarden]

On 10/25/2022 at 7:20 PM, Foxpalms said:

What is jubaeopsis hardy too? I've heard 9a from some sources and 9b from other ones. I'm presuming it also is more hardy in a dry climate.

Not much data on this.  Looks like they start taking damage in the mid twenties, one surviving into the teens (with damage). 

 

[edbrown_III]

I have mine up against the house and protect it every winter--I didnt one winter --- 23F just about did it in ---- 

 

[Austinpalm]

On 11/3/2022 at 12:03 PM, edbrown_III said:

I have mine up against the house and protect it every winter--I didnt one winter --- 23F just about did it in ---- 

 

Is it still alive?