Coastal SE Zone Map

[clinenotklein]

The Florida thread inspired me to do one here based off of a happy medium between 1991-2020 averages, personal observation, (which made me do higher or lower in certain areas), and some educated guesses from trends in how the lines go from known areas to fill it in. Definitely in agreement with a narrow band of 9b above Florida and it probably terminates in extreme coastal Charleston County, SC. 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1HHQbCcLVZkxooXPD1H4XC1oWRV8TPbA&fbclid=IwAR0_wNWuCvzHHCzeflSoTdT8MKzZpqR1PyCtRlO7T3KTqyDauBBuBiM5KlU&ll=31.325495808975415%2C-80.68797249999999&z=7

[RedRabbit]

This seems pretty generous in my opinion, especially calling Daytona z10.

z9b probably ends at St. Simons Island, but isn’t very solid there. Most of the island is borderline 9a/9b with East Beach and Sea Island somewhat convincingly 9b. Saying 9b terminates at Mayport would be more defensible. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by RedRabbit

[kinzyjr]

I'd be interested to see what the map would look like with nodes for each of the weather stations.  The map made me curious about downtown Charleston.  If you go with the most recent 30 years, the AAL-30 is 27F.  Anything planted after January 2018 has been living on easy street since it hasn't gone below 30F there since. 

These results can be verified here: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/Climate?wfo=chs

[clinenotklein]

8 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

I'd be interested to see what the map would look like with nodes for each of the weather stations.  The map made me curious about downtown Charleston.  If you go with the most recent 30 years, the AAL-30 is 27F.  Anything planted after January 2018 has been living on easy street since it hasn't gone below 30F there since. 

These results can be verified here: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/Climate?wfo=chs

The average for Hilton Head Airport is 27.6 (only goes back to 2005) and someone in downtown Brunswick hasn't seen much below 30 in years reporting an overall average of 27. This is what made me take the leap of weak 9b for Barrier Islands. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by clinenotklein

[RedRabbit]

4 hours ago, clinenotklein said:

The average for Hilton Head Airport is 27.6 (only goes back to 2005) and someone in downtown Brunswick hasn't seen much below 30 in years reporting an overall average of 27. This is what made me take the leap of weak 9b for Barrier Islands. 

What did the average come out to at the St. Simons Airport? When I checked a few years ago it was something like 25.2f, but that could have changed with some warm years going into the average. The island looks pretty consistent with 9a from my memory.

Jekyll seems like it should have a good microclimate since it’s further off the coast, but I haven’t seen any data supporting it being warmer than East Beach. It’s an area I’ve been curious about so I keep an eye on both.

Edited November 3, 2022 by RedRabbit

[BrunswickGuy]

I think I'm the Downtown Brunswick, GA guy referred above.  I've lived here for almost 8 years and can attest that the lowest it has been in my yard was 24F one night I think it was during a wet January 2017 freeze. Other than that I have only experience two nights around 28F and half a dozen or so nights around 30-32F. I have a weather station and have had a couple of winters not go below 32F and about 4 not go below 30F. What is equally impressive is the low number of nights below freezing that I have experience in seven winters. I would give a rough guess at around 7-8 nights in seven years!  Just this past winter, there was only one night (28F). Most maps show that this area is low 9a (minimum expected around 22/23F), but my average low over seven years has been pushing 29/30F.

I realize that long term this very freakishly warm winter weather probably can't continue (there will be a sub 20F freeze one day), but until that happens, I continue to enjoy growing Plumeria in the ground, have a few 25' Strelitzia nikolai, and grow a few 9b/10a palms with no protection at all. 

FYI - Downtown Brunswick, GA is a peninsula similar somewhat to Charleston, SC in that it is surrounded by water/marsh and I think benefits (at least early in winter) from warm high tides (we have 9' tides here) that can increase temps a few degrees on cold nights with no strong winds). 

St. Simons Island/Jekyll/Sea Island and think could be solid 9b with observations from the last 30 years. Downtown Brunswick could slip in there as well at least for what I have observed the past 7.5 years.

[RedRabbit]

2 hours ago, BrunswickGuy said:

I think I'm the Downtown Brunswick, GA guy referred above.  I've lived here for almost 8 years and can attest that the lowest it has been in my yard was 24F one night I think it was during a wet January 2017 freeze. Other than that I have only experience two nights around 28F and half a dozen or so nights around 30-32F. I have a weather station and have had a couple of winters not go below 32F and about 4 not go below 30F. What is equally impressive is the low number of nights below freezing that I have experience in seven winters. I would give a rough guess at around 7-8 nights in seven years!  Just this past winter, there was only one night (28F). Most maps show that this area is low 9a (minimum expected around 22/23F), but my average low over seven years has been pushing 29/30F.

I realize that long term this very freakishly warm winter weather probably can't continue (there will be a sub 20F freeze one day), but until that happens, I continue to enjoy growing Plumeria in the ground, have a few 25' Strelitzia nikolai, and grow a few 9b/10a palms with no protection at all. 

FYI - Downtown Brunswick, GA is a peninsula similar somewhat to Charleston, SC in that it is surrounded by water/marsh and I think benefits (at least early in winter) from warm high tides (we have 9' tides here) that can increase temps a few degrees on cold nights with no strong winds). 

St. Simons Island/Jekyll/Sea Island and think could be solid 9b with observations from the last 30 years. Downtown Brunswick could slip in there as well at least for what I have observed the past 7.5 years.

What 9b/10a palms are you growing there?

One thing I’ve been wondering about that area is whether the extensive marshland is helpful or hurtful. 

[BrunswickGuy]

On 11/18/2022 at 10:34 PM, RedRabbit said:

What 9b/10a palms are you growing there?

One thing I’ve been wondering about that area is whether the extensive marshland is helpful or hurtful. 

Being near the rivers help when there is a high tide during winter. The warmer waters at high tide can help moderate the temps (as long as there is not high winds).

Marginal palms that I am growing in the ground unprotected here are: Acoelorraphe wrightii, Allagoptera arenaria, Arenga engleri, Bismarkia nobilis, unknown Caryota sp, Chamaedorea cataracticum, Copernicia alba, Dypsis decipiens, Livistonaa fulva, Phoenix roebelinni, Rhapis excelsa/humilis/subtilis, Syagrus  romanzoffianaa.

BTW - St Pete is my favorite city in FL and I love to visit that area!

Edited December 17, 2022 by BrunswickGuy

[RedRabbit]

9 hours ago, BrunswickGuy said:

Being near the rivers help when there is a high tide during winter. The warmer waters at high tide can help moderate the temps (as long as there is not high winds).

Marginal palms that I am growing in the ground unprotected here are: Acoelorraphe wrightii, Allagoptera arenaria, Arenga engleri, Bismarkia nobilis, unknown Caryota sp, Chamaedorea cataracticum, Copernicia alba, Dypsis decipiens, Livistonaa fulva, Phoenix roebelinni, Rhapis excelsa/humilis/subtilis, Syagrus  romanzoffianaa.

BTW - St Pete is my favorite city in FL and I love to visit that area!

I’m curious how a majesty would do there, you should give one a try!

Let us know how you fare with this upcoming cold front next week. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by RedRabbit

[BrunswickGuy]

On 12/17/2022 at 9:16 AM, RedRabbit said:

I’m curious how a majesty would do there, you should give one a try!

Let us know how you fare with this upcoming cold front next week. 

I tried one several years ago and it died first year in the ground during a 24F sleet/freezing rain event (coldest temp I've seen in 8 winters up to this weekend). I've been scared to retry one though I have seen two on St. Simons Island that are getting some nice trunk (4-5').  This weekend will definitely be a test on the palms in my yard as I will do minimum protection for palms/plants planted in the ground.

[kinzyjr]

1 hour ago, BrunswickGuy said:

I tried one several years ago and it died first year in the ground during a 24F sleet/freezing rain event (coldest temp I've seen in 8 winters up to this weekend). I've been scared to retry one though I have seen two on St. Simons Island that are getting some nice trunk (4-5').  This weekend will definitely be a test on the palms in my yard as I will do minimum protection for palms/plants planted in the ground.

Thank you for coming on PalmTalk and sharing your expertise.  Interested in seeing how this plays out for all of us.