5 month planted Foxtail suddenly yellow frond

[Breaktheory]

hi friends…

I planted this 20G foxtail 5 months ago and it’s been thriving….the weather has dropped so everything is slowing but my Foxtail has really slowed growth and the bottom frond is getting yellow and black…any idea?

 

thanks

jon

 

[idontknowhatnametuse]

That's normal, the leaf is just too old so it is falling off to reveal a new ring on the trunk of your palm. It's not cold damage.

[Jim in Los Altos]

No leaf lives forever. That’s just the oldest frond dying off. It will fall from the palm eventually. 

[Looking Glass]

The old leaf is dying back, but if it hangs on like that too long before rapidly browning up, that palm is hinting to you that it would like some more potassium or langbeinite.  The next leaf up might be hinting it to you as well.  Hard to tell for sure right now.  Old leaves should turn copper and brown fairly quickly.  

[Breaktheory]

On 11/1/2022 at 2:48 AM, Looking Glass said:

The old leaf is dying back, but if it hangs on like that too long before rapidly browning up, that palm is hinting to you that it would like some more potassium or langbeinite.  The next leaf up might be hinting it to you as well.  Hard to tell for sure right now.  Old leaves should turn copper and brown fairly quickly.  

Thanks, it’s odd that it’s staying like that as other trees do follow the quick browning pattern.

 

I fertilized about a month ago with Osmocote and I give it Superthrive once a month -what do you suggest as the safest way to provide potassium?

[Looking Glass]

7 minutes ago, Breaktheory said:

Thanks, it’s odd that it’s staying like that as other trees do follow the quick browning pattern.

 

I fertilized about a month ago with Osmocote and I give it Superthrive once a month -what do you suggest as the safest way to provide potassium?

This guide works well for South Florida sandy soils…..

https://www.palmbeachpalmcycadsociety.com/documents/PalmNutritionalDeficiencyCorrectionAndAntagonisticNutritionalRelationships.pdf

I think a simple cup of langbeinite/sul-po-mag distributed loosely around where you think the roots are, works well for small palms, in addition to a regular palm specific fertilizer schedule.   Potassium problems are very common in my area.  The Mg component balances out the antagonistic relationship.  For real potassium hogs (like leptocheilos) I’ll use straight potash also sometimes. 

I have to supplement it a lot.   Better to hit it early if there is a sign of it.  The cosmetic effects don’t pass until the effected leaves die off.  

[Jim in Los Altos]

6 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

This guide works well for South Florida sandy soils…..

https://www.palmbeachpalmcycadsociety.com/documents/PalmNutritionalDeficiencyCorrectionAndAntagonisticNutritionalRelationships.pdf

I think a simple cup of langbeinite/sul-po-mag distributed loosely around where you think the roots are, works well for small palms, in addition to a regular palm specific fertilizer schedule.   Potassium problems are very common in my area.  The Mg component balances out the antagonistic relationship.  For real potassium hogs (like leptocheilos) I’ll use straight potash also sometimes. 

I have to supplement it a lot.   Better to hit it early if there is a sign of it.  The cosmetic effects don’t pass until the effected leaves die off.  

That particular Foxtail is in Los Angeles but you have sound advice for Florida soils. 

[Johnny Palmseed]

It’s not easy to tell from a picture, but it looks like it has an overall nutrient deficiency. The color looks more lime green than I would expect. Obviously going into winter is not the time to increase fertilization but I would consider that for the spring.

[Looking Glass]

9 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

That particular Foxtail is in Los Angeles but you have sound advice for Florida soils. 

I figured your soils are more clay? and less sand, so your nutrients likely stick much better.   Ours wash away quickly.   A hit of potassium probably goes a long way for you guys?   
 

There’s two giant foxtails abutting my yard.  And three across the street.  None get fertilized.
These giants are about 40 feet to the tip, I’d guess.  They suck up the lawn fertilizer from under my yard and look ok…..  they have some mild potassium deficiency right now.  

 

The biggest below is probably 18 feet to the top.   They get only water and are deficient in everything, but still grow….  They need a year of aggressive fertilization.  

***Note the big Thrinax radiata between the three Royals, happily subsisting on nothing.  

Edited November 3, 2022 by Looking Glass

[Breaktheory]

8 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

I figured your soils are more clay? and less sand, so your nutrients likely stick much better.   Ours wash away quickly.   A hit of potassium probably goes a long way for you guys?   
 

There’s two giant foxtails abutting my yard.  And three across the street.  None get fertilized.
These giants are about 40 feet to the tip, I’d guess.  They suck up the lawn fertilizer from under my yard and look ok…..  they have some mild potassium deficiency right now.  

 

The biggest below is probably 18 feet to the top.   They get only water and are deficient in everything, but still grow….  They need a year of aggressive fertilization.  

***Note the big Thrinax radiata between the three Royals, happily subsisting on nothing.  

Yes I have very clay soil even for LA so definitely different than Florida…

Would it be wise to still add the potassium despite going into winter?

[Jim in Los Altos]

19 hours ago, Breaktheory said:

Yes I have very clay soil even for LA so definitely different than Florida…

Would it be wise to still add the potassium despite going into winter?

Potassium is one element that I particularly add towards winter. It builds cellular resistance to cold damage. 

[Breaktheory]

1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Potassium is one element that I particularly add towards winter. It builds cellular resistance to cold damage. 

Sounds good - just to be sure though, the osmocote I added about a month ago does have potassium…is it possible I somehow added too much creating an excess or burning? The frond is now yellow and black

[Looking Glass]

1 hour ago, Breaktheory said:

Sounds good - just to be sure though, the osmocote I added about a month ago does have potassium…is it possible I somehow added too much creating an excess or burning? The frond is now yellow and black

It just looks like it’s dying off.   That’s ok.  If you look above at the smaller foxtails in the pics I posted above, you’ll see the oldest fronds are necrotic at the tips, yellow, and burned looking.   These have been hanging on like this for months.  When it’s time for a frond to die, it should go though this stage pretty quickly, not linger on discolored and necrotic.   If it does, it’s a cry for help.  

I’ve got twin Chinese Fans, and 1/2 always has early potassium deficiency on the oldest leaves.   It’s better over 2 years of supplementing, but it’s twin steals a lot of the nutrition it seems, and looks fine all the time.  

I’m not sure what the ideal ratio of nutrients is for palms in clay soil in California.  Of course it varies a bit for each palm species too.   Here, general fertilizers have too much nitrogen
And not enough Mg, K, Mn etc, so while they push green growth, the deficiencies eventually appear, as the growth outpaces the need for the other nutrients over time.     

I’ve found I can be a little more generous with the N sometimes.   Common palm fertilizer is around 8-2-12 with 4 of Mg and some other micros that vary.  

If I look around the yard and read the palms, I’ve learned that certain palms like Teddy Bears and P. roebellenii need more K here.  Pseudophoenix and the coccothrinax I have, love some extra dolomite lime, while other palms absolutely hate it.  Bottles here need extra Magnesium sometimes.  Some palms need extra iron, others don’t need it, but turn deep green with a little extra.   

Your palm looks good.  Feed it well, water it, take care of it.  I don’t see much harm in giving it a normal extra dose of something that looks off.   

As @Jim in Los Altos said above, Fall is the traditional time for dosing of potassium, especially for lawns, as it doesn’t push new green growth.  

If you were to overdo potassium fertilizer, you’d see signs of salt exposure acutely, and magnesium deficiency chronically.   …But that would take a pretty excessive dosing.   

[Jim in Los Altos]

7 hours ago, Breaktheory said:

Sounds good - just to be sure though, the osmocote I added about a month ago does have potassium…is it possible I somehow added too much creating an excess or burning? The frond is now yellow and black

No. Fertilizer burn affects all the leaves, not just one. 

[Breaktheory]

7 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

It just looks like it’s dying off.   That’s ok.  If you look above at the smaller foxtails in the pics I posted above, you’ll see the oldest fronds are necrotic at the tips, yellow, and burned looking.   These have been hanging on like this for months.  When it’s time for a frond to die, it should go though this stage pretty quickly, not linger on discolored and necrotic.   If it does, it’s a cry for help.  

I’ve got twin Chinese Fans, and 1/2 always has early potassium deficiency on the oldest leaves.   It’s better over 2 years of supplementing, but it’s twin steals a lot of the nutrition it seems, and looks fine all the time.  

I’m not sure what the ideal ratio of nutrients is for palms in clay soil in California.  Of course it varies a bit for each palm species too.   Here, general fertilizers have too much nitrogen
And not enough Mg, K, Mn etc, so while they push green growth, the deficiencies eventually appear, as the growth outpaces the need for the other nutrients over time.     

I’ve found I can be a little more generous with the N sometimes.   Common palm fertilizer is around 8-2-12 with 4 of Mg and some other micros that vary.  

If I look around the yard and read the palms, I’ve learned that certain palms like Teddy Bears and P. roebellenii need more K here.  Pseudophoenix and the coccothrinax I have, love some extra dolomite lime, while other palms absolutely hate it.  Bottles here need extra Magnesium sometimes.  Some palms need extra iron, others don’t need it, but turn deep green with a little extra.   

Your palm looks good.  Feed it well, water it, take care of it.  I don’t see much harm in giving it a normal extra dose of something that looks off.   

As @Jim in Los Altos said above, Fall is the traditional time for dosing of potassium, especially for lawns, as it doesn’t push new green growth.  

If you were to overdo potassium fertilizer, you’d see signs of salt exposure acutely, and magnesium deficiency chronically.   …But that would take a pretty excessive dosing.   

Thanks for the breakdown!

[Breaktheory]

I’ve now given this tree a cup of langbeinite as suggested….the frond is darker and getting black.
 

I was getting about 4 inches of spear growth a week during the summer - at this point it hasn’t even moved an inch of the past month.

Is it possible the cold has just frozen the growth?

 

 

[Billy]

With restricted daylight hours and cooler temps, palms here in California (unlike Hawai'i and Florida) usually slow down this time of year. I've always thought of them focusing on root development during winter months. Then summer comes around and they start pushing new fronds again. 

[Billy]

Your palm looks great by the way. Solid spear. Will definitely throw out a nice frond, just not as speedy this time of year.

[Merlyn]

@Breaktheoryyeah almost everything in my yard has slowed down.  For me it was probably a cool drought in October after hurricane Ian came through.  Now the highs have dropped to 80ish and lows are getting into the upper 60s, and we are now officially 10 hours 47m of daylight.  Back in June it was 90+ every day and 75-80F lows, with about 14 hours of daylight.  Oddly enough some of my cycads are flushing now...go figure. 

[Breaktheory]

Thanks all!