Why did my green King Palm tree fall?

[Rich Amooi]

I was surprised to find our King Palm on the ground when we got up one morning because it appeared to be healthy and was very green. I thought the palm fronds start turning brown when the the tree has root rot, so could it be from something else? Or can you tell my looking at the roots in the photos? Thanks in advance for your help.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Rich Amooi

[PalmatierMeg]

The leaves may have been green but from the condition of its trunk it was a very sickly palm. There was some disease process or rot that was decimating the stem until it failed. I can't say for sure what was going on but it looks like it was shriveling/wasting and has been neglected.

[Rich Amooi]

6 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

The leaves may have been green but from the condition of its trunk it was a very sickly palm. There was some disease process or rot that was decimating the stem until it failed. I can't say for sure what was going on but it looks like it was shriveling/wasting and has been neglected.

What type of neglect do you think? This is on an automatic drip system and gets plenty of water every three days. Lack of nutrients? It has been green for 5 years since we planted it, and we haven't changed our watering since then. I am in Southern California, if that matters. San Diego.

[Little Tex]

56 minutes ago, Rich Amooi said:

What type of neglect do you think? This is on an automatic drip system and gets plenty of water every three days. Lack of nutrients? It has been green for 5 years since we planted it, and we haven't changed our watering since then. I am in Southern California, if that matters. San Diego.

As it got larger, it really should have been fertilized, if the soil was too saturated consistently then it could have led to rot.

[Darold Petty]

Rich, sorry for your loss, could the mulch have been too high, and right up against the trunk, contributing to the development of fungus ?

Welcome to Palmtalk !   

[Little Tex]

6 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

Rich, sorry for your loss, could the mulch have been too high, and right up against the trunk, contributing to the development of fungus ?

Welcome to Palmtalk !   

Until Rich responds, from the photo it appears the mulch was far above the trunk

[PalmatierMeg]

Maybe it is just an inferior specimen. However, something is/was not right with that trunk. It looks like at one time it was sunburned, it is skinny, withered and penciling. I've had palms that declined and died after the trunks withered and collapsed. Once I saw what was happening I knew the palm was on the way out. Yours failed by breaking in two. It looks like some disease process destroyed the stem's integrity. If the stem dies the palm has no way to move minerals, water and nutrients and your palm's stem was toast. All the water and fertilizer in the world won't save it. It's not uncommon for a palm to be dead and not know it until it keels over.

Kings (I assume this one is Archonotophoenix cunninghamiana) are cheap and plentiful in CA.

[Johnny Palmseed]

The third picture looks like 2 other palms, meaning this was one out of a triple planting. It’s not uncommon for one or more in a cluster to be the runt. I had a Veitchia triple that became a double and is now a single. The palms are all fighting for the available nutrients and some win/some lose. Clean out the affected area and you could probably continue on with a double.

[DoomsDave]

@Rich Amooi Nice to meet you!

And, sorry to hear about your loss.

I think your palm might have been severely underwatered. Kings are "swamp things" in habitat, that is, they'll grow literally in standing water, though it's not required.

I see a palm trunk in the right background of your second picture in your first post right next to the crown laying on the ground, that appears to be a gravely deprived king palm.

DON'T feel badly, and we're not scolding! Kings really are thirsty things, but so beautiful if you water them enough.

Please take a "full monty" picture of the general area your king was growing in; if there's others, please make sure we get pictures of them, too.

We want to help!

[DoomsDave]

These are kings in my garden after about 15 or so years in the ground. 
 

[Rich Amooi]

1 hour ago, Little Tex said:

As it got larger, it really should have been fertilized, if the soil was too saturated consistently then it could have led to rot.

I have been fertilizing it every two months.

[Rich Amooi]

1 hour ago, Darold Petty said:

Rich, sorry for your loss, could the mulch have been too high, and right up against the trunk, contributing to the development of fungus ?

Welcome to Palmtalk !   

Thank you! There has never been any mulch against the trunk.

[Rich Amooi]

38 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

@Rich Amooi Nice to meet you!

And, sorry to hear about your loss.

I think your palm might have been severely underwatered. Kings are "swamp things" in habitat, that is, they'll grow literally in standing water, though it's not required.

I see a palm trunk in the right background of your second picture in your first post right next to the crown laying on the ground, that appears to be a gravely deprived king palm.

DON'T feel badly, and we're not scolding! Kings really are thirsty things, but so beautiful if you water them enough.

Please take a "full monty" picture of the general area your king was growing in; if there's others, please make sure we get pictures of them, too.

We want to help!

Thanks! That is such a surprise to hear that because I thought there would have been a sign in the fronds of discoloration if it was underwatered, because it has been green and growing for 5 years.  Maybe I need to check that sprinkler drip on that one. There is usually A LOT of water that comes out of it and it usually has three to four inches of standing water as it seeps into the ground below it. 10 minutes of water.

[Rich Amooi]

33 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

These are kings in my garden after about 15 or so years in the ground. 
 

So gorgeous! 😍

[Rich Amooi]

1 hour ago, Little Tex said:

Until Rich responds, from the photo it appears the mulch was far above the trunk

No mulch near the trunk at all. The mulch near the trunk in the photo was from me kicking it around as I was trying to take photos from different angles. Usually it is just dirt all around it and nothing else.

[DoomsDave]

1 hour ago, Rich Amooi said:

Thanks! That is such a surprise to hear that because I thought there would have been a sign in the fronds of discoloration if it was underwatered, because it has been green and growing for 5 years.  Maybe I need to check that sprinkler drip on that one. There is usually A LOT of water that comes out of it and it usually has three to four inches of standing water as it seeps into the ground below it. 10 minutes of water.

Okay, hmm. Sounds like you gave it enough, though they are thirsty to reemphasize.

Maybe give us a full monty picture? Happy kings don't usually just fall over, though I've seen unpleasant surprises too.

[BayAndroid]

Yeah, let's see the full picture of the rest of these kings and the conditions surrounding them. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

Drip systems are fine as long as you’re not just watering at the palm’s base. Look at the photos below of when I was demolishing my pool/koi pond. The section of fiberglass chopped out shows King palm roots that have spread 40 feet or more from the two palms at the top of the photo. Kings need tons of water and not just at or near their trunks. 

[Merlyn]

It's possible that the fungus is Thielaviopsis.  That one destroys the non-lignified tissue, leaving the stringy hard lignified fibers behind.  In taller palms it tends to attack the tissue just below the crown.  One of the apparently common issues with Thielaviopsis is that the crown looks totally fine right before the trunk breaks in half.  Figure 7 looks a lot like the photos of the trunk:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP143

This was an Adonidia that looked generally ok for several months after a freeze.  It put out maybe one frond over the summer and I finally noticed it when the top fell off.  The other two in the triple looked better, but the cross-section looked a lot like figure 5 in the UFL link.  I cut down and removed all 3, and dug out the stump to keep it from spreading to nearby palms.

[Rich Amooi]

Okay, here are a few more shots. We have three sets of palms on the hill (where the one palm fell over), then two other sets on flat part of the yard, one with three palms, the other with five. It does not get very hot here in the summer, maybe two heatwaves in the 90s or near 100, otherwise most days are in the 80s and the winters do not get very cold. They get water every three days for ten minutes, and that usually fills the area where the tree is very well as it drains for the next five to ten minutes, I am guessing. Could they problem be that they are on a hill and the only part that gets water is within 12-18 inches of the palm? Or that the roots of the one that fell are not where the water from the system is being directed? I do have to dig back sometimes on the hill since the slope changes and sometimes the water will fall over the edge with not all being absorbed by the ground around the palms. I had thought about laying building a sort of wall two feet in front of the palms on the hill and filling it with dirt up to the palm so there is more area around the palm that is getting water. Thoughts? Thanks for your help.

 

 

[Rich Amooi]

On 11/10/2022 at 10:39 AM, Little Tex said:

As it got larger, it really should have been fertilized, if the soil was too saturated consistently then it could have led to rot.

 

On 11/10/2022 at 1:12 PM, DoomsDave said:

Okay, hmm. Sounds like you gave it enough, though they are thirsty to reemphasize.

Maybe give us a full monty picture? Happy kings don't usually just fall over, though I've seen unpleasant surprises too.

 

6 hours ago, BayAndroid said:

Yeah, let's see the full picture of the rest of these kings and the conditions surrounding them. 

 

On 11/10/2022 at 11:23 AM, DoomsDave said:

@Rich Amooi Nice to meet you!

And, sorry to hear about your loss.

I think your palm might have been severely underwatered. Kings are "swamp things" in habitat, that is, they'll grow literally in standing water, though it's not required.

I see a palm trunk in the right background of your second picture in your first post right next to the crown laying on the ground, that appears to be a gravely deprived king palm.

DON'T feel badly, and we're not scolding! Kings really are thirsty things, but so beautiful if you water them enough.

Please take a "full monty" picture of the general area your king was growing in; if there's others, please make sure we get pictures of them, too.

We want to help!

Just posted 6 more pictures of the area around the palms. Three sets are on the hill, the other two on the flat part of the yard. Thanks.

[BayAndroid]

I personally think that they aren't getting enough water. The hill probably contributes to this. More widespread watering to make sure the roots get water, would be recommended. 

[Merlyn]

They may be planted too deep, which can cause lower trunk rot.  Here's a great tutorial on that.  http://www.marriedtoplants.com/palms/palm-tree-growing-tips-mounding/