What kind of seeds are these? Ficus benjamina

[miamicuse]

I have thousands of these seeds (or fruits) in my yard and deck.

At first I thought it was from one of the palms, but there are so many of these over such a  large area that the only tree this can come from is my massive Ficus benjamina tree(s).  I use plural here because there are a cluster of them where the aerial roots touched down and became another tree that grew big so now there are six massive tree all interconnected, each having a trunk over 16 inches in diameter.

But the fruits/seeds dropped by this tree last year and the year before did not look like this.  In the past, this tree dropped red/black color figs in May and October.  A lot of them every day, and they are ripe and when they drop they burst open on my brick driveway and patio.  This is what they looked like in the past after I swept them up.

Is it possible the almond colored fruits/seeds are the same thing but premature because the tree has been injured or stressed?

I have a 2500 gallon fish pond in my property, and in October I did a complete clean out of the pond in order to repair some submerged intake piping as well as to replace a small wood bridge over the pond.  During the clean out process I drained the water, removed all the muck and leaf debris settled at the bottom of the pond over the years, and I also removed much of the vines, ferns and other plants around the pond.  During that process I noticed there are some tree roots behind the vines and ferns, these are not small roots, I would say there were probably 4 tree roots I cut back, they are probably about 2-3 inches in diameter and they had clusters of smaller fiberous roots surrounding them, dipping into the pond.  At the time my thinking was to clear everything, especially these roots need to go because left alone they may get even bigger and eventually break the concrete iiner of the pond.

After the clean out was completed the pond remain dry, no more water in the pond while I made various repairs.  Then I noticed one day the ficus was dropping leaves, not a big surprise as they do drop leaves in the fall anyway, but unlike past years the dropped leaves were yellow/brown, this year some of it were green.  Then a week or two went by, and these almond colored seeds started to fall.  I thought it was seeds from my palms, but they are not coming from the palms, they are coming from the trees.  My thinking is these dropped before they had a chance to develop into what I saw in past years.

My guess is the trees took a lot of water and nutrients from the pond, and the roots were cut off and the water/nutrients no longer available, the tree because stressed and dropped leaves and fruits prematurely to cope.

Thoughts?

[Silas_Sancona]

20 minutes ago, miamicuse said:

I have thousands of these seeds (or fruits) in my yard and deck.

At first I thought it was from one of the palms, but there are so many of these over such a  large area that the only tree this can come from is my massive Ficus benjamina tree(s).  I use plural here because there are a cluster of them where the aerial roots touched down and became another tree that grew big so now there are six massive tree all interconnected, each having a trunk over 16 inches in diameter.

But the fruits/seeds dropped by this tree last year and the year before did not look like this.  In the past, this tree dropped red/black color figs in May and October.  A lot of them every day, and they are ripe and when they drop they burst open on my brick driveway and patio.  This is what they looked like in the past after I swept them up.

Is it possible the almond colored fruits/seeds are the same thing but premature because the tree has been injured or stressed?

I have a 2500 gallon fish pond in my property, and in October I did a complete clean out of the pond in order to repair some submerged intake piping as well as to replace a small wood bridge over the pond.  During the clean out process I drained the water, removed all the muck and leaf debris settled at the bottom of the pond over the years, and I also removed much of the vines, ferns and other plants around the pond.  During that process I noticed there are some tree roots behind the vines and ferns, these are not small roots, I would say there were probably 4 tree roots I cut back, they are probably about 2-3 inches in diameter and they had clusters of smaller fiberous roots surrounding them, dipping into the pond.  At the time my thinking was to clear everything, especially these roots need to go because left alone they may get even bigger and eventually break the concrete iiner of the pond.

After the clean out was completed the pond remain dry, no more water in the pond while I made various repairs.  Then I noticed one day the ficus was dropping leaves, not a big surprise as they do drop leaves in the fall anyway, but unlike past years the dropped leaves were yellow/brown, this year some of it were green.  Then a week or two went by, and these almond colored seeds started to fall.  I thought it was seeds from my palms, but they are not coming from the palms, they are coming from the trees.  My thinking is these dropped before they had a chance to develop into what I saw in past years.

My guess is the trees took a lot of water and nutrients from the pond, and the roots were cut off and the water/nutrients no longer available, the tree because stressed and dropped leaves and fruits prematurely to cope.

Thoughts?

Definitely not Ficus Fruits ..which contain the seeds ( very small, like Strawberry seeds )  The others are from something else completely unrelated..  Could be some sort of palm actually..  (  Something w/ smaller seed like an Areca, Royal, Archontophoenix, or Ptychosperma, etc )  Probably dropped by birds, rodents.

[miamicuse]

8 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Definitely not Ficus Fruits ..which contain the seeds ( very small, like Strawberry seeds )  The others are from something else completely unrelated..  Could be some sort of palm actually..  (  Something w/ smaller seed like an Areca, Royal, Archontophoenix, or Ptychosperma, etc )  Probably dropped by birds, rodents.

Thank you for confirming.  So perhaps it's a palm.  May be the ficus isn't injured as bad as I thought then.

[miamicuse]

OK the mystery continues.  Now I have more clues, and even more confused LOL.

Two weeks ago, I cleaned up as best as I can all the leaves and seeds around my property.  I swept all the seeds on my driveway, on my brick deck etc...out of the way.  I then waited a few days for the new seeds to drop.  They do drop.  I can hear them drop from above, I hear them hit the ground, bounce off and I went to pick them a few up.  just on the east side I am getting easily over 100 seeds in 2 hours.  It is not dropped by birds or rodents, there are just too many of them.  Second, these seeds are only found inside the canopy of the ficus tree, they are not found outside.  From this alone, it still seems to suggest it is either the ficus tree or some other plants under the ficus's canopy.

So I looked at the palms I have under the ficus, I have seven Livistona chinensis under this giant ficus.  They are indeed producing fruits.  But their fruits are much bigger and green in color.  Nevertheless I cut the fruits down.

The mystery seeds are to the left and the Livistona chinensis to the right.  So it's not them.

I have another palm under the ficus canopy.  I am not entirely sure what kind it is, I think it is a Ptychosperma elegans, and it is also fruiting and flowering.  So I cut down it's fruits as well.  They do not look like what has been dropping from the sky either.

The only other plant I have under the ficus canopy is a large cluster of Strelitzia nicolai.

So I took some of these seeds, and cracked them open with a plier.  Inside is this transulent white color.

Here is a penny for scale.

Then this afternoon, I was outside watering, another one dropped on my shoulder.  I looked down, and this one has an outer layer of dark red color skin.  I rubbed off this skin and it is the same seeds I have been seeing.  I still don't know what these are, I still think they are coming from my ficus.

[Silas_Sancona]

10 minutes ago, miamicuse said:

OK the mystery continues.  Now I have more clues, and even more confused LOL.

Two weeks ago, I cleaned up as best as I can all the leaves and seeds around my property.  I swept all the seeds on my driveway, on my brick deck etc...out of the way.  I then waited a few days for the new seeds to drop.  They do drop.  I can hear them drop from above, I hear them hit the ground, bounce off and I went to pick them a few up.  just on the east side I am getting easily over 100 seeds in 2 hours.  It is not dropped by birds or rodents, there are just too many of them.  Second, these seeds are only found inside the canopy of the ficus tree, they are not found outside.  From this alone, it still seems to suggest it is either the ficus tree or some other plants under the ficus's canopy.

So I looked at the palms I have under the ficus, I have seven Livistona chinensis under this giant ficus.  They are indeed producing fruits.  But their fruits are much bigger and green in color.  Nevertheless I cut the fruits down.

The mystery seeds are to the left and the Livistona chinensis to the right.  So it's not them.

I have another palm under the ficus canopy.  I am not entirely sure what kind it is, I think it is a Ptychosperma elegans, and it is also fruiting and flowering.  So I cut down it's fruits as well.  They do not look like what has been dropping from the sky either.

The only other plant I have under the ficus canopy is a large cluster of Strelitzia nicolai.

So I took some of these seeds, and cracked them open with a plier.  Inside is this transulent white color.

Here is a penny for scale.

Then this afternoon, I was outside watering, another one dropped on my shoulder.  I looked down, and this one has an outer layer of dark red color skin.  I rubbed off this skin and it is the same seeds I have been seeing.  I still don't know what these are, I still think they are coming from my ficus.

99.9% sure those are from your mystery palm.. Palm seeds are translucent inside when cut open, and seed has the fiber-y looking covering on the outside.  The picture of the fruits you cut off the mystery palm are immature and far from ripe.. They will be about the size of the seeds you're finding, and likely bright red when ready.  Guaranteed if you planted a handful of them, you'd see palm leaves when they sprout.

Would post a picture of the palm and seed from it  in the main forum to get a better idea of what it is. Looking online, Dypsis lutescens seeds look similar to those. Ptychosperma elegans seed have dimples in then, rather than a smooth, bullet-shaped surface.

 100% positive it isn't any Ficus.. There are no species on the planet that produce seed even close to that size. Fruit containing seeds can be about as large, or larger,  but will be full of strawberry seed- sized seed when squished.

Livistonia seed will be blackish or bluish when ripe as well.. Ones you collected aren't fully ripe yet.

 

[Silas_Sancona]

30 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

99.9% sure those are from your mystery palm.. Palm seeds are translucent inside when cut open, and seed has the fiber-y looking covering on the outside.  The picture of the fruits you cut off the mystery palm are immature and far from ripe.. They will be about the size of the seeds you're finding, and likely bright red when ready.  Guaranteed if you planted a handful of them, you'd see palm leaves when they sprout.

Would post a picture of the palm and seed from it  in the main forum to get a better idea of what it is. Looking online, Dypsis lutescens seeds look similar to those. Ptychosperma elegans seed have dimples in then, rather than a smooth, bullet-shaped surface.

 100% positive it isn't any Ficus.. There are no species on the planet that produce seed even close to that size. Fruit containing seeds can be about as large, or larger,  but will be full of strawberry seed- sized seed when squished.

Livistonia seed will be blackish or bluish when ripe as well.. Ones you collected aren't fully ripe yet.

 

Here's an excellent read on the biology of Ficus fruits:

https://www2.palomar.edu/users/warmstrong/arbimg10.htm

[miamicuse]

3 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

99.9% sure those are from your mystery palm.. Palm seeds are translucent inside when cut open, and seed has the fiber-y looking covering on the outside.  The picture of the fruits you cut off the mystery palm are immature and far from ripe.. They will be about the size of the seeds you're finding, and likely bright red when ready.  Guaranteed if you planted a handful of them, you'd see palm leaves when they sprout.

Would post a picture of the palm and seed from it  in the main forum to get a better idea of what it is. Looking online, Dypsis lutescens seeds look similar to those. Ptychosperma elegans seed have dimples in then, rather than a smooth, bullet-shaped surface.

 100% positive it isn't any Ficus.. There are no species on the planet that produce seed even close to that size. Fruit containing seeds can be about as large, or larger,  but will be full of strawberry seed- sized seed when squished.

Livistonia seed will be blackish or bluish when ripe as well.. Ones you collected aren't fully ripe yet.

 

Then this is really puzzling.

I have already removed any fruits and seeds from all the palms under the ficus canopy, including two of the Livistona chinensis and the mystery palm.  There are no more flowers and fruits on any of the palms near where I found these seeds.

Furthermore, the footprint of the mystery palm is only about a circle about 8 feet in diameter.  The ficus tree's footprint is about 25' X 25', and the drip line is even bigger at about 40'X40'.  I am tons of these seeds under the ficus drip line in all directions, many are on the ground 30' from this palm.

Unless I have a huge palm I don't know about that is as big as the ficus and dropping these seeds.  this is just making no sense.  I'll keep looking for clues to solve this mystery!

[Silas_Sancona]

8 hours ago, miamicuse said:

Then this is really puzzling.

I have already removed any fruits and seeds from all the palms under the ficus canopy, including two of the Livistona chinensis and the mystery palm.  There are no more flowers and fruits on any of the palms near where I found these seeds.

Furthermore, the footprint of the mystery palm is only about a circle about 8 feet in diameter.  The ficus tree's footprint is about 25' X 25', and the drip line is even bigger at about 40'X40'.  I am tons of these seeds under the ficus drip line in all directions, many are on the ground 30' from this palm.

Unless I have a huge palm I don't know about that is as big as the ficus and dropping these seeds.  this is just making no sense.  I'll keep looking for clues to solve this mystery!

Internet-sourced pictures of various palm seeds:  **picture credits to internet sources**

Archontophoenix: **Picture credits: Idtools.org**



Dypsis lutescens:   ** Picture credits:  Etsy UK and other **






Ptychosperma elegans: P. macaurthuri  seed looks similar. ** Photo Credit: Etsy.com**



Carpentaria acuminata, **picture credit: Rare Palm Seeds*:






Ficus fruits / seeds...

Strangler Fig.. ** Picture credits: Treasurecoastnatives.wordpress.com **



F. benjamina :

Seeds: ** Picture Credit: Theseedvine.com.au**




Fruit: ** Picture credits: Garden.org and Flicker.com **

[epiphyte]

Rodents and/or birds are carrying the palm fruits into the Ficus and eating them there?  Are the palm nuts edible?  I've eaten the nuts of queen palms (?) and they taste vaguely like coconut.  hmmm... a quick internet search didn't corroborate this...

[miamicuse]

11 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Internet-sourced pictures of various palm seeds:  **picture credits to internet sources**

Archontophoenix: **Picture credits: Idtools.org**



Dypsis lutescens:   ** Picture credits:  Etsy UK and other **






Ptychosperma elegans: P. macaurthuri  seed looks similar. ** Photo Credit: Etsy.com**



Carpentaria acuminata, **picture credit: Rare Palm Seeds*:






Ficus fruits / seeds...

Strangler Fig.. ** Picture credits: Treasurecoastnatives.wordpress.com **



F. benjamina :

Seeds: ** Picture Credit: Theseedvine.com.au**




Fruit: ** Picture credits: Garden.org and Flicker.com **

Very helpful as I continue to try to piece this puzzle together.

I just don't know how I can get seeds from palms when I have already removed all fruits/seeds from all palms under the ficus.

Yet the seeds continue to rain down.  I have seen the figs from the ficus in the past two years, they are soft, they are dark red, they burst as they hit my brick deck and stain it.  These seeds do not look like what I got in previous years (and the figs dropped in May and October, not in November/December).

The only other possible explanation is there is an animal nest up there, may be iguanas, raccoons, birds etc...and they harvested seeds from somewhere nearby, and are disposing the seeds after they ate the skin and flesh.  But they have to have stored A LOT of these fruits up high in the trees, enough to rain down all over in a 40'x40' area at a rate like hundreds an hour.

[aabell]

Your mystery seeds are from Royal palms, probably distributed by birds. I find them and volunteer seedlings in my yard all the time, even though I don't have any royals on my property. 

[miamicuse]

I do not have any royal on my property now.  I did have a 50' tall royal that I cut down two years ago due to Ganoderma infection.

Today I spent more time looking up, went on the roof to get a better look.

Here are some additional clues.

I know for sure it is not from the palms I have.  I actually heard a few times the seeds dropped from higher onto the palm leaves, then the seeds rolled off the palm leaves and dropped onto the ground.  I have cut away anything with fruits and seeds from my palms.

If it's not any of my palms, and not the big ficus tree then it has to be seeds from something else.

Let's assume for a moment that this is from birds, rodents or other animals, they fed on these fruits they harvested from some place else then dropped the seeds.  Is that possible?  I guess, but then two other things that bothers me.

(a) I have several similar size large trees in terms of canopy size and heights.  I have a Calophyllum inophyllum tree and a Psedobombax ellipticum tree next to the ficus and seeds are not dropping from these trees, none.  So these birds or animals will hang out only on the ficus and not the other trees.

(b) These animals when they drop the seeds, they have to drop them all over the canopy area of 40'X40'.  They do not stay in one spot and drop a dozen seeds, they move around the entire canopy even to the tips of each tree branch to drop them at or a little beyond the drip line of the tree.  They have to drop a lot of them in a short time.  I just walked around under the tree and these are the seeds I saw.

They are everywhere, I can randomly grab a handful of dirt and there will be a dozen or so of these seeds.  They are all around under the tree in all directioms.  This can't be a few birds, this has to be like a flock of a hundred birds up there for that many seeds.

[miamicuse]

On 12/6/2022 at 12:56 AM, Silas_Sancona said:

Here's an excellent read on the biology of Ficus fruits:

https://www2.palomar.edu/users/warmstrong/arbimg10.htm

Thank you, the fruits shown in this article are similar to the ones I have seen in past years.  Red/black fruits very soft and burst easily with tiny seeds inside, like a fig I would find at a supermarket but just much smaller.

Looks nothing like what I got on the ground.  At first I thought may be my recent draining of a fish pond that denied the tree a source of water and nutrients., as I removed several 4"+ roots from the ficus that dipped into the pond may have caused the fruits to prematurely drop.  But these seeds are obviously not ficus seeds.

My only other conclusion is there may be some very tall palms in my neighborhood like Royals, even taller than the ficus I have (so they need to be 60' or more), that either the wind blows and the seeds followed the wind and dropped it over my ficus, or there are hundreds of birds nesting on my ficus and they are dropping the seeds after eating the fruits all around the trees in hundreds a day.

[Silas_Sancona]

10 minutes ago, miamicuse said:

Thank you, the fruits shown in this article are similar to the ones I have seen in past years.  Red/black fruits very soft and burst easily with tiny seeds inside, like a fig I would find at a supermarket but just much smaller.

Looks nothing like what I got on the ground.  At first I thought may be my recent draining of a fish pond that denied the tree a source of water and nutrients., as I removed several 4"+ roots from the ficus that dipped into the pond may have caused the fruits to prematurely drop.  But these seeds are obviously not ficus seeds.

My only other conclusion is there may be some very tall palms in my neighborhood like Royals, even taller than the ficus I have (so they need to be 60' or more), that either the wind blows and the seeds followed the wind and dropped it over my ficus, or there are hundreds of birds nesting on my ficus and they are dropping the seeds after eating the fruits all around the trees in hundreds a day.

You'd be surprised at how much seed birds will consume in a day..  At the old house, Grackles, Starlings, & Thrashers will sit in that particular Mesquite, all day,  even though there's a grove of Mesquite about the same height 15ft away..  While it happens less this time of year, when seed from the neighborhood Washingtonia are ripe, it sounded like someone wass tossing rocks on the metal shed that sits below one side of the tree at times ..all day, for at least a couple months..

I could easily fill a 3gal bucket with seeds in a couple weeks if i collected everything the birds would drop below that tree.  Grackles and Thrashers will also drop half cracked or whole Pecans.  Nearest tree is 5 houses away, and on the opposite side of the Alley.  They also drop seed from Brazilian Pepper Trees ( nearest fruiting specimen is roughly a quarter mile away ) and seed from Bottle Trees ( Nearest are about a block away )  ...and seed from some other stuff i haven't tracked down yet.

I recently found half a dozen Peach pits under the ficus here ..No idea where the birds found those.

If you see Royals ..or other tall palms that might have seed on them while on a long walk through your neighborhood, or when doing a google search within a 1-3 mile radius of your house,  More than likely, that is where the seeds are coming from..

Considering you have both native seed consumers ( Cat / Mocking Birds, 2-3 Grackle sp., White Crowned Pigeons, and domesticated ones, and some seed eating Dove sp.  )  and well established, non-native birds that will eat seeds, like Parrots,  plus Iguana and rodents which also consume either seeds or the fruit surrounding them,  That's a lot of critters who can disperse seed.. Big, dense- canopied Ficus like yours is a great place for all of them to hang out while enjoying a snack.. Rodents and Iguana would be the quietest while up in the tree.

[miamicuse]

On 12/8/2022 at 12:50 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

You'd be surprised at how much seed birds will consume in a day..  At the old house, Grackles, Starlings, & Thrashers will sit in that particular Mesquite, all day,  even though there's a grove of Mesquite about the same height 15ft away..  While it happens less this time of year, when seed from the neighborhood Washingtonia are ripe, it sounded like someone wass tossing rocks on the metal shed that sits below one side of the tree at times ..all day, for at least a couple months..

I could easily fill a 3gal bucket with seeds in a couple weeks if i collected everything the birds would drop below that tree.  Grackles and Thrashers will also drop half cracked or whole Pecans.  Nearest tree is 5 houses away, and on the opposite side of the Alley.  They also drop seed from Brazilian Pepper Trees ( nearest fruiting specimen is roughly a quarter mile away ) and seed from Bottle Trees ( Nearest are about a block away )  ...and seed from some other stuff i haven't tracked down yet.

I recently found half a dozen Peach pits under the ficus here ..No idea where the birds found those.

If you see Royals ..or other tall palms that might have seed on them while on a long walk through your neighborhood, or when doing a google search within a 1-3 mile radius of your house,  More than likely, that is where the seeds are coming from..

Considering you have both native seed consumers ( Cat / Mocking Birds, 2-3 Grackle sp., White Crowned Pigeons, and domesticated ones, and some seed eating Dove sp.  )  and well established, non-native birds that will eat seeds, like Parrots,  plus Iguana and rodents which also consume either seeds or the fruit surrounding them,  That's a lot of critters who can disperse seed.. Big, dense- canopied Ficus like yours is a great place for all of them to hang out while enjoying a snack.. Rodents and Iguana would be the quietest while up in the tree.

I know I have rodents - lots of squirrels all around but typically see them on top of my fences and they seem to be eating bigger fruits.  Iguanas are around and they are eating my plants, especially water plants and some of the crotons.  If iguanas and rodents are up there eating the fruits and dropping seeds, then they must have harvested the fruits somewhere nearby, and carry them up my tree to eat and drop them?  There are probably birds up there, but I didn't think that many of them but I could be wrong.

I do know I have predators around.  I am thinking a vicious raccoon.  I occasionally find dismembered crabs in my yard.  This summer I saw a dead baby owl under the ficus.  Twice I also saw remains of anoles being taken apart.  I wasn't sure if it's raccoons or feral cats.  I have a possum that comes out at night and always take the same route around dusk but he doesn't bother anyone.  I came across the raccoon twice both times near the ficus.  I think he killed the baby owl.  OK I am talking out loud and going off topic.  I am going to look for the source of the palm seeds in my neighborhood.

[Silas_Sancona]

3 hours ago, miamicuse said:

I know I have rodents - lots of squirrels all around but typically see them on top of my fences and they seem to be eating bigger fruits.  Iguanas are around and they are eating my plants, especially water plants and some of the crotons.  If iguanas and rodents are up there eating the fruits and dropping seeds, then they must have harvested the fruits somewhere nearby, and carry them up my tree to eat and drop them?  There are probably birds up there, but I didn't think that many of them but I could be wrong.

I do know I have predators around.  I am thinking a vicious raccoon.  I occasionally find dismembered crabs in my yard.  This summer I saw a dead baby owl under the ficus.  Twice I also saw remains of anoles being taken apart.  I wasn't sure if it's raccoons or feral cats.  I have a possum that comes out at night and always take the same route around dusk but he doesn't bother anyone.  I came across the raccoon twice both times near the ficus.  I think he killed the baby owl.  OK I am talking out loud and going off topic.  I am going to look for the source of the palm seeds in my neighborhood.

Rodents would likely drop some, eat some and drop the remains.. Iguana could eat the seeds whole ( w/ fruit attached ) and poop out the seeds..  Squirrels would be the most likely, rodent-wise, to store seed in a nest or.. some sort of hide away up in the Ficus..  Don't think Raccoons or Opossum consume seeds, esp. large seeds. Cats don't for sure.

Iguana, Possums, and Feral Cats will definitely consume Anoles, smaller birds, ..rats / mice / baby Squirrels ...but not sure about Crabs... Cats at least..   Raccoons would eat crabs for sure.. Not sure about Opossums.  Cat(s) are likely responsible for killing the Owl 🤬 stupid Cats!, lol.. They eat the neighborhood Doves here.  A shame i'm not closer to open desert where the Cats could be "controlled" by native predators like Coyote, Fox, and / or Bobcats / Cougars, haha.