London palms and exotics

[Foxpalms]

Here are some palms and exotics in London, I will add to the thread at a later date as well as I take more photos. These are photos of the big canary island date palm, Norfolk Island pine, a yucca gigantea and the bougainvillea in Fulham. The bougainvillea are still in flower.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Foxpalms

[UK_Palms]

Can you try and get a photo of the Bougainvillea on Longbridge Road in Dagenham. I never got a shot of it when I visited a few weeks back. Where that Norfolk Island Pine and Bougainvillea is still flowering, I doubt they have gone below 7C / 45F at street level there yet. A pretty big freeze is on the way for Europe in the next week or two though. I hope it’s nothing like 2010!!!

[Foxpalms]

1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

Can you try and get a photo of the Bougainvillea on Longbridge Road in Dagenham. I never got a shot of it when I visited a few weeks back. Where that Norfolk Island Pine and Bougainvillea is still flowering, I doubt they have gone below 7C / 45F at street level there yet. A pretty big freeze is on the way for Europe in the next week or two though. I hope it’s nothing like 2010!!!

Because northern Europe is above average by a lot at the moment even though we have a week of colder weather it looks like it will just be cooler with no frost. Hopefully the winds return back to coming from the south or west after that week, but to be honest if we are having north eastern winds and the coldest temperature in the forecast is only 4c one night then its probably a sign that it's going to take a major turn in the weather for a 2010. Dagenham is pretty far east but I might be able to get a shot of it though I'm not sure if it will be in flower because the nights in Fulham/west Kensington are much warmer.

[iko.]

Central London has potential for more varieties of palms. I have seen some potted Howea doing well. They even got covered in snow for a couple of days. I didn’t see any big specimen, but I’m sure it will eventually happen. Very much in the limit but Chambeyronia macrocarpa could be another palm to try. That palm loves shade, not too hot and high humidity.
 

Not palm related, I grow outdoors in Central London: Strelitzia reginae, Banksia coccinea, Protea, jacaranda,… I also have some Cymbidium that have been doing great for several years now and just a few days ago, I brought inside a couple of Phalaenopsis orchids that were outside since March. 
 

 

[GoatLockerGuns]

17 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

These are photos of the big canary island date palm, Norfolk Island pine, a yucca gigantea and the bougainvillea in Fulham.

That Araucaria heterophylla is amazing!  If that was planted as a small plant, then that is multiple seasons/years of survival.  Do you know of anymore growing there?  I understand there are some growing on islands off the coast of Cornwall.

[Foxpalms]

25 minutes ago, iko. said:

Central London has potential for more varieties of palms. I have seen some potted Howea doing well. They even got covered in snow for a couple of days. I didn’t see any big specimen, but I’m sure it will eventually happen. Very much in the limit but Chambeyronia macrocarpa could be another palm to try. That palm loves shade, not too hot and high humidity.
 

Not palm related, I grow outdoors in Central London: Strelitzia reginae, Banksia coccinea, Protea, jacaranda,… I also have some Cymbidium that have been doing great for several years now and just a few days ago, I brought inside a couple of Phalaenopsis orchids that were outside since March. 
 

 

I'm currently germinating some Chambeyronia macrocarpa seeds, jacaranda mimosifolia and birds of paradise are also fine here. Howea forsteriana do well most of the ones in London though other than ones in private gardens are in pots outside restaurants, but they leave them outside and they don't get damaged. The less hardy phoenix palms, archontophoenix, livistona and sabals seem to grow well here as well. Part of the problem is the gardens centers in the UK sell plants based on whether they are UK hardy or not, not for certain locations so most people buy a Norfolk Island pine and think it's only a house plant in central London because it is in most of the country for example. Aloes, agave and cacti do pretty well here since London is the driest city in the UK. The list of palms I want to try in ground is Archontophoenix Alexandrae, Archontophoenix purperea, Archontophoenix myolensis, the Chambeyronia genus, Cyphophoenix genus, rare chamedoreas, Beccariophoenix alfredii, Chrysalidocarpus, Ceroxylons and many more!

[Foxpalms]

30 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

That Araucaria heterophylla is amazing!  If that was planted as a small plant, then that is multiple seasons/years of survival.  Do you know of anymore growing there?  I understand there are some growing on islands off the coast of Cornwall.

I think the Norfolk Island pine was planted small since its pretty much impossible to find good sized Norfolk Island pines for sale. I only saw 1 large one for sale this year they are normally sold at around 2-3ft. Its probably been there for a good amount of time. There are a few more on the mainland in Cornwall and in central London.  The closest wunderground station to that Norfolk Island pine in Fulham only got down to 31f last winter. There's one in Portsmouth but that photo was from 2011 so it must be much bigger now. A couple more I found on Google which are in the UK mostly in London. Lamorran have one in Cornwall but I didn't get a photo of that.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Foxpalms

[iko.]

2 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

The list of palms I want to try in ground is Archontophoenix Alexandrae, Archontophoenix purperea, Archontophoenix myolensis, the Chambeyronia genus, Cyphophoenix genus, rare chamedoreas, Beccariophoenix alfredii, Chrysalidocarpus, Ceroxylons and many more!

Some years ago I’d have thought that list is unreal. After several COVID-19 lockdown walks across London observing other people’s gardens, I don’t think that anymore.

Chrysalidocarpus lutescens seems very challenging. If it’s of any help, I have some growing in pots and let them outside from March through November. During those months roots and new leaves grow thicker and healthier than when kept inside the house. Older leaves grown indoors are often fried or heavily damaged by wind, cold or sun.

[Foxpalms]

2 hours ago, iko. said:

Some years ago I’d have thought that list is unreal. After several COVID-19 lockdown walks across London observing other people’s gardens, I don’t think that anymore.

Chrysalidocarpus lutescens seems very challenging. If it’s of any help, I have some growing in pots and let them outside from March through November. During those months roots and new leaves grow thicker and healthier than when kept inside the house. Older leaves grown indoors are often fried or heavily damaged by wind, cold or sun.

Chrysalidocarpus lutescens I wasn't sure about, but I've heard about them growing in Cornwall before. That one would definitely need to be planted against the house, so it grows better in the summer and takes less damage in the winter, though they apparently take upper 20s f and low 30s high 20s is about as cold as it gets here.  Chrysalidocarpus decaryi, Chrysalidocarpus onilahensis, Chrysalidocarpus ambositrae, Chrysalidocarpus baronii were more of the ones that I was thinking. I would like decipiens but its impossible to find for sale here. Forgot to mention bismarckia as well my small potted one outside is still growing, caryota maxima himalaya is also outside and still growing they seem to both be fairly cool tolerant but if I plant the bismarckia it will need to be planted in very fast draining soil to avoid root rot. When you look at the weather stations in London it makes sense why things such as Norfolk island pines do well https://www.weatherlink.com/bulletin/eca06516-c4ce-4743-b3b2-d8a0ef6aa645  https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/ILONDO440

[Josh76]

8 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

The list of palms I want to try in ground is Archontophoenix Alexandrae, Archontophoenix purperea, Archontophoenix myolensis, the Chambeyronia genus, Cyphophoenix genus, rare chamedoreas, Beccariophoenix alfredii, Chrysalidocarpus, Ceroxylons and many more!

Hi Foxpalms. I'm working at The Palm Centre and we have several of these palms for sale at the moment. Send me a private message if you like and I can get you a 20% discount!

[UK_Palms]

Kathleen Avenue Washingtonia in Acton, London looking pretty sexy. I have never really posted this one before on here as street view hadn't updated in 3-4 years, until recently. This one must be close to flowering now too. London is really repping the Washingtonia hard nowadays.

 

Keep an eye out in London back yards... there's hundreds out there...

 

Mostly shade grown London washies...

Galliard Road washie looking good...

 

So many to keep tabs on, many of which I haven't really posted before...

 

A new monstrous CIDP as well lurking in a back yard that I have dug out. I have just been scoping out overhead maps and spotted about another 50-60 big CIDP's in back yards. There is a huge 30 foot plus Washingtonia in one of the gardens behind this CIDP, but that isn't visible from street view.

 

People wouldn't have seen the majority of these ones I am posting here, like this one in south London. In fact there is two below, but one is out of frame...

 

[Foxpalms]

@UK_Palms I saw some Washingtonia in the outskirts of London the other day driving to a garden center. There are lots hiding in back gardens.

[Samuel]

Stunning palms let’s hope the forecast cold spell doesn’t materialise 

[Foxpalms]

1 hour ago, Samuel said:

Stunning palms let’s hope the forecast cold spell doesn’t materialise 

It looks frost free for here but the BBC normally understates the temperature other forecasts are slightly higher. The winds from the south or west will return somewhere between Dec the 12th-16th. Just very cool weather if this is the only cold blast we get and Jan and Feb are mild that won't be too bad. Even the coldest  outskirts aren't forecasted to go below 0c so hopefully it either stays the same or warms up.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Foxpalms

[Foxpalms]

@UK_Palms I was looking on Google earth in central London and found this this. Looks like a phoenix roebelenii and it's clearly flowered.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Foxpalms

[UK_Palms]

@Foxpalms Nice! Where is the exact location of that Roebelenii mate? Also look at the size of this back yard Washingtonia about 20 miles outside of London in Gillingham. It's so big that you can clearly see the trunk on the overhead aerial image. A 30 footer probably. Maybe 40 even. There is a 15 footer CIDP out front too, but it is dwarfed by what is lurking out back. That washie is a mammoth. You can even make out each chunky frond, so likely a Filifera or Filifera dominant hybrid. Could be 30+ years old now.

 

30 seconds looking around Gillingham (the location above) towards the far east London outskirts and I am already spotting more stuff. Washingtonia clearly finding a second home now in southern England. These two look like Robusta's. My provisional estimates now put the number of Washingtonia in southern England at 100,000. Most will be hidden away in back yards.

 

Not sure if I have posted these London CIDP's before...?

 

[Foxpalms]

@UK_Palms The Victoria Embankment gardens. There are some nice CiDPs and Washingtonia around Selsey as well on google earth.

[Palmfarmer]

Someone should try Bismarckia there. 

[Foxpalms]

3 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

Someone should try Bismarckia there. 

Once my seedling gets bigger I will. It's still outside in a pot.

[Palmfarmer]

2 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

Once my seedling gets bigger I will. It's still outside in a pot.

It should work in the mildest parts. Saw someone in a very mild climate all year long have sucess with bismarckia in New Zealand. I got one as well and we dont have that hot summer and nighttime temps rarely go above 15c in summer. 

[Foxpalms]

15 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

It should work in the mildest parts. Saw someone in a very mild climate all year long have sucess with bismarckia in New Zealand. I got one as well and we dont have that hot summer and nighttime temps rarely go above 15c in summer. 

The average temperature here in July and August this summer was over 22c. So other than this cold snap we are going to have which is probably going to make December below average, it's typically 9c-10c with a low of 5c in the winter. Obviously it won't grow during the winter but hopefully it can sit there dormant for the winter. I think more so than the cold wet and cold is probably more dangerous to Bismarckia, specifically the soil not so much lights frosts. I think if it's planted in lots of grit gravel and sand it will stand a good chance at surviving maybe against a masonry wall as well. Lows of 15c in the summer is what the long term July and August average is supposed to be, but in the last 10 years it has definitely increased. We had a decent amount of nights with a low over 20c this summer. The growth of my seedling has been pretty good here and since it's only ever grown in the outside conditions here, hopefully it's more hardy than one from somewhere it has never seen any cold or cool conditions. My one is also pretty crimson colored which supposedly means it will be more silver and the silver ones are more hardy apparently. Which part of New Zealand was the Bismarckia growing in?

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Foxpalms

[GottmitAlex]

Godspeed @Foxpalms

[gurugu]

This one has been growing in the ground, outdoors, for over 8 years now. It was trasplanted last year and it didn´t blink an eye. It is over a metre tall. It has set 4 new leaves this year.

We don´t even reach 21ºC in the hottest months here, though our winters are pretty mild but very rainy, that´s why I shelter them with a plastic framework from hail, too much rain, and occasionally some snow. It is open to the south for it to receive as much sun as the little we enjoy here = 1.800 hours of sunshine a year.

I´ve got 12 more planted outdoors. I know some other enthusists of palms here in the north of Spain are also growing it. So you should give it a try, indeeed! Your climate in London is much drier than here. Here it rains twice as much as there.

[Axel Amsterdam]

On 11/28/2022 at 3:27 PM, iko. said:

Central London has potential for more varieties of palms. I have seen some potted Howea doing well. They even got covered in snow for a couple of days. I didn’t see any big specimen, but I’m sure it will eventually happen. Very much in the limit but Chambeyronia macrocarpa could be another palm to try. That palm loves shade, not too hot and high humidity.
 

Not palm related, I grow outdoors in Central London: Strelitzia reginae, Banksia coccinea, Protea, jacaranda,… I also have some Cymbidium that have been doing great for several years now and just a few days ago, I brought inside a couple of Phalaenopsis orchids that were outside since March. 
 

 

Those are nice plants to grow outside in London. Are the strelitzia and jacaranda in pots or planted? 

[Axel Amsterdam]

On 11/28/2022 at 1:53 PM, Foxpalms said:

 Dagenham is pretty far east but I might be able to get a shot of it though I'm not sure if it will be in flower because the nights in Fulham/west Kensington are much warmer.

Its probably still in flower, mine is the same variety and already had a -2c around 2 weeks ago. Pic of today.

[iko.]

2 hours ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Those are nice plants to grow outside in London. Are the strelitzia and jacaranda in pots or planted? 

These are growing in pots in a rooftop. I don't have a garden with land in London but seeing other people's gardens, they probably could have grown bigger if planted. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by iko.

[Axel Amsterdam]

Thanks, i am familiar with howea’s being grown in pots outside in central London yearround. I would love to know if any more tender plants are actually planted in London gardens. Do you know of any private gardens where strelitzia’s, jacaranda’s or similar tender plants grow? There must be some hidden treasures out there. So far the bougainvillea glabra pictured above has been one of the most extreme examples of zone pushing. It has been growing there for more than a decade and its much more tender than the arborea type (mauve color) in Dagenham that i grow in Amsterdam. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Axel Amsterdam

[iko.]

3 hours ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Do you know of any private gardens where strelitzia’s, jacaranda’s or similar tender plants grow?

Hi, I don’t want to steal OP’s thread or the palm related subforum we’re at, but… I’ve heard about Dipladenia and Strelitzia in the ground but never saw them. I saw Cordyline (the fruticosa type, the australis is well spread all over London) and Cymbidium orchids in the ground in abandoned gardens in the past. They were doing quite well. Usually tender plants grow well for a few years until a cold front arrives one winter and leaves them weak or dead if no much care is given afterwards. A well drained soil is key on the path for success.

[UK_Palms]

Here's the Bougainvillea in northwest London. This is by no means one of the warmer parts of the city either. No idea what type of citrus that is growing there too? Possibly a nectarine of some kind? The street view updated too early this year so the bloom isn't visible. LIkewise the street view on the big Dagenham Bougainvillea is from March when it had no leaves.

 

Any idea what this red flowering plant is? It almost looks like a red Bougainvillea although street view is from June, which seems a bit early for it to be fully leafed out with lots of flowers. It was a warm year but it seems a month or two early to be looking like that. @Axel Amsterdam @gurugu

 

Any idea what this tree is with red flowers...? So much different stuff hidden away in London.

 

Here's another new one to add that I have just found. Notice the smaller Washingtonia lurking in the back. Also another CIDP with a church spire in background.

 

Yet another London Washingtonia...

 

It's a bit sad that Chamaerops do not get the same attention or recognition over here. I am definitely guilty of that too. I actually overlook so many Mediterranean fan palms and bypass them as they are smaller and less imposing palms, compared to say CIDP or Washies. London has a ton of impressive Chamaerops too. Here is one I spotted today.

 

The parakeets are colonising areas near my location now. The flocks are moving out of the city into the outskirts more as the population continues to explode.

 

This is the only Canary Island native that outnumbers the Phoenix Canariensis here. Streatoda Nobilis or the 'false widow' spider. There's probably more in England than the entire Canaries nowadays due to the spread. I have maybe come across 5,000 of them over the past few years. It is the most common spider over anything else 10 to 1 here. I removed 2 of them from my bedroom yesterday, which I had ignored for a few days. I took this photo tonight in my bathroom where this one has been for about a week now.

Edited December 4, 2022 by UK_Palms

[GottmitAlex]

Parakeets? Wow!!!!

 

[gilles06]

Psittacula krameri, is a weed in Europe. It has escaped from captivity in the late 20th century and now is in every big town...

[Chester B]

I think the fruit tree with the orange fruit is a persimmon. 
 

The red flowering plant looks to be a climbing rose. 

[Silas_Sancona]

14 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I think the fruit tree with the orange fruit is a persimmon. 
 

The red flowering plant looks to be a climbing rose. 

Agree w/ Persimmon, Turban shape, at least how some look in the picture, makes me think it's a Hachiya.

Also agree w/ the red-flowered, viny looking thing being one of the Climbing Roses.

@UK_Palms You sure those are flowers?  Sure looks like fruit on a Pyracantha, aka Firethorn.   HATE  that plant, lol.

[UK_Palms]

6 hours ago, gilles06 said:

Psittacula krameri, is a weed in Europe. It has escaped from captivity in the late 20th century and now is in every big town...

Well they definitely aren't in every big town in Europe. There isn't any in Scandinavia or eastern Europe. It's too cold. London has a higher population of rose-ringed parakeets than the entire rest of Europe combined. Probably 500,000+ now. The only place I have heard of wild ones as tame as that, where they land on you and eat out of your hand, is in India.

[UK_Palms]

6 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Agree w/ Persimmon, Turban shape, at least how some look in the picture, makes me think it's a Hachiya.

Also agree w/ the red-flowered, viny looking thing being one of the Climbing Roses.

@UK_Palms You sure those are flowers?  Sure looks like fruit on a Pyracantha, aka Firethorn.   HATE  that plant, lol.

Thanks for the clarification on the Persimmon Hachiya. You might also be right that the red plant/tree is a Firehorn. I'm not sure whether this is the same thing as well...?

 

These could all be roses as well then, but I am not sure...

[Banana Belt]

36 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

Well they definitely aren't in every big town in Europe. There isn't any in Scandinavia or eastern Europe. It's too cold. London has a higher population of rose-ringed parakeets than the entire rest of Europe combined. Probably 500,000+ now. The only place I have heard of wild ones as tame as that, where they land on you and eat out of your hand, is in India.

San Fransisco has many parakeets and parrots, they are very intellegent birds and can be friendly to humans.  Outside of major Urban cities like San Fransisco parakeets and parrots are easy prey for raptors because of the bright colors. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Banana Belt

[Foxpalms]

@UK_Palms The invasive species list is pretty impressive in the UK. We now also have scorpions, Asian hornets, raccoons, golden pheasants, Indian peafowl, Aesculapain snakes, common wall lizzards, western green lizards,  European pond terrapins, stick insects, termites, the false widows which are everywhere, wasp spiders, the brown recluse I've seen these in my garden so whilst they don't seem to be common they are definitely here, yellow sac spiders,  black widows pretty uncommon, the reback spider also uncommon, copyus and even the red necked wallaby. I'm sure the next invasive thing to go on the invasive plants list will be Washingtonia in the next 5-10 years.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Foxpalms

[Silas_Sancona]

5 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Thanks for the clarification on the Persimmon Hachiya. You might also be right that the red plant/tree is a Firehorn. I'm not sure whether this is the same thing as well...?

 

These could all be roses as well then, but I am not sure...

Red - fruited thing is definitely Fire thorn ..err, haha

Pictures 2, 3, are Roses for sure..  See some Agapanthus in picture #3 also.  Picture #7 may be some type of rose, but could be Spirea. Ivy is hideous, lol.

Picture #4 is a Hydrangea,  maybe H. macrophylla,  which is a pretty commonly seen sp.

5, and 6 may be Roses, but would need better detailed shots of the leaves, old flower clusters to be sure.  See Fatsia on the far left, and Variegated Euonymus in picture #6 as well

[Silas_Sancona]

5 hours ago, Banana Belt said:

San Fransisco has many parakeets and parrots, they are very intellegent birds and can be friendly to humans.  Outside of major Urban cities like San Fransisco parakeets and parrots are easy prey for raptors because of the bright colors. 

Yep, both types of birds are well established both in / around San Francisco, other parts of the Bay Area, and across Southern CA.  We have Love Birds here that have done quite well since introduction.

Recently, Nanday Parakeet have been sighted in some neighborhoods on this side of Phoenix, same w/ both Rose Ringed, and Monk, both of which appear to be expanding their range across more of California atm.

Commonest "Parrots" seen in S.Cal are some of the West Mexican sp. that are considered endangered in Mexico. Others like Nandays have sought out more specific habitat niches in local mountain ranges down there that mimic their preferred native habitat and aren't seen " in the cities" quite as frequently.

I personally enjoy their presence and think anyone who kills them, should face stiff, felony- level criminal prosecution. For the most part, they don't cause trouble, ...like House Sparrows or Starlings might..  and, they bring that extra note of the tropics to less  tropical places.

Here in the U.S. at least, the presence of introduced Psittaciformes is kind of karmic payback for us wiping out / nearly eliminating our native Parrots / Parakeets ( species like Carolina, Green, Thick-Billed Parrot - here in AZ )   

I'd love to have the experience of hearing the calls of Thick Billed Parrots echoing through tree tops while out exploring Madera or Ramsey Canyon, or Mt. Lemmon. Imagine, back when they were still present, it must have been wonderful.

[Chester B]

We had monk parakeets north of me in Battle Ground, Washington which is colder than Portland.  The colony was there for a number of years but have died out.