Flamethrower or hardy lookalike

[Palmfarmer]

Hey I am wondering if a flamethrower would be hardy in my climate and what other palms look similar to the flamethrower? 

[Jim in Los Altos]

4 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

Hey I am wondering if a flamethrower would be hardy in my climate and what other palms look similar to the flamethrower? 

Your climate in Durango, Mexico should easily support Chambeyronia in a shady position only since your summer high temperatures are hot. A shady position will protect it from possible frost in the winter too. 

[richnorm]

Laccospadix is hardier and can have a spectacular red leaf.  It is variable so select a good one though it's a lovely palm even without the red leaf.

[96720]

My flamethrower is growing fine in Phoenix in deep shade you should have no problem but don’t expect a red frond I think the heat prevents that !!!

[miamicuse]

On 12/3/2022 at 8:11 AM, 96720 said:

My flamethrower is growing fine in Phoenix in deep shade you should have no problem but don’t expect a red frond I think the heat prevents that !!!

Do you think the heat in Florida would encourage red leaves?  I have been on the fence about getting one myself.

[Merlyn]

The reports here are that red leaves are genetic, a few random ones don't throw red leaves at all.  My experience is that cold in the 27-28F or higher range damages some leaves, but any frost on the plant seems to damage the growing point and kill the spear.  I lost 6 flamethrowers of various sizes up to 5' tall, all to frost in the 28-35F range.  The frost defoliated them, and then the plant died of a crown infection.  It was 100% fatality rate out in the open, and 0% fatality rate under canopy.  Even little 1' tall seedlings were totally fine at 28F under canopy.

[96720]

I think ones in Florida have no problem!! I have 2 in the ground and 4 in the greenhouse and have never had a red frond only that kind bronze color!!!

[sonoranfans]

On 12/4/2022 at 11:46 PM, miamicuse said:

Do you think the heat in Florida would encourage red leaves?  I have been on the fence about getting one myself.

I have (2) hookeri and one watermelon here, they get most red in winter so far.  I think shade and cool temps preserve the red longer.  I have seen the same palm go totally bronze in 4 days or still be all red with no bronze after a week.  In winter my watermelon throws nice red leaves that persist in shade.  My hookeri are new oversized 7 gallon size, so I will try one in shade and one in sun to see the effect.   Some say hookeri is brighter red grown in sun,  Here is a winter pic of the watermelon(#2) and two hookeri(#1,3) pics, the more red hookeri in this pic has now thrown a maroon colored leaf.  Yeah genetics are certainly involved these palms can have no red leaf at all.  But habitat has its role and plants adapt to it.  I can get a red leaf and a  maroon leaf off the same palm, and I have had the same palm turn green.  

[Billeb]

That’s what mine look like as well. Hookeri is super dark maroon almost and the Watermelon is more of a standard red.  Im

I’m partial to the Hookeri. 
 

Watermelon still trying to adapt: 

 

Hookeri in full sun 

 

-dale

[miamicuse]

How old does a flame thrower palm begin to exhibit the red leaf (if it's going to)?  I assume it does not when it's a seedling right?

[Billeb]

7 minutes ago, miamicuse said:

How old does a flame thrower palm begin to exhibit the red leaf (if it's going to)?  I assume it does not when it's a seedling right?

In my experience, they slowly start turning color around the 1G size. Maybe a little smaller. This is what I’ve seen for Hookeri and Macrocarpa. My Houailou is a really nice good sized 5G and is just showing the slightest hint of pink at last frond. 
 

-dale

[sonoranfans]

A simplification of what is happening is that chlorophyll absorbs red(and blue) light, anthocyanins absorb blue plus a little green light.  If chlorophyll is absent and anthocyanin present, the leaf will be red(blue is absorbed by anthocyanin) but as chlorophyll is synthesized, the red(and blue) is absorbed and we are left with green light transmitting the leaf.  How fast that chlorophyll is synthesized is a big factor in the rate of turning green.  Chemically chlorophyll synthesis increases with temperature and with sunlight intensity.  That is my hypothesis.  Hookeri is a darker red likely due to a different mix of chromophores(like carotenes) and a higher anthocyanin concentration than watermelon.  I have observed that the watermelon leaf is much brighter in shade(more transmissive) and the hookeri is brighter in sun(generates more intense red light), IF the sunlight is bright enough.  As the leaf turns toward red/orange its an indication that chlorophyll has already been produced and it absorbed some of the 660nm to 690 nm deep red light.  Here is a link with the basic science:  https://harvardforest.fas.harvard.edu/leaves/pigment