How tough are Sabal minor? You be the judge.

[Ben G.]

I have lived in my current home in Cherokee county Oklahoma for about 6 years. Over the years I have planted lots of small sabal minor seedlings throughout my 5 acres of mostly wooded space. I believe I also planted at least a few palmettos too, though I no longer remember which ones they were. Over my time here we have experienced winter lows of -2F, -2F, 10F, -14F, and 8F.

Our summers had been pretty mild, without significant drought until the summer of 2022. This summer saw about two solid months of highs ranging from 95F to 105F, and several stretches of 3 to 5 weeks with no rain at all. On the plus side, I didn't do much mowing this year. On the downside, I watered my garden much more than normal. During these years, none of my sabal minor seedlings were given any supplemental water or any cover in winter.

As I cleared leaf litter from a trail in our forest yesterday, I snapped some photos of these seedlings after all of the cold, heat, and drought. Not bad for no protection in zone 7a:

Seedlings in the woods:

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Ben OK
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[Ben G.]

[Ben G.]

[Ben G.]

[Ben G.]

Older seedlings planted on a sunny slope:

 

[Ben G.]

[Allen]

Yes S. minor are really tough.  arguably the most cold hardy palm especially for wet winter areas.

[PalmatierMeg]

Very tough. Down here they are tougher than Rhapidophyllum, which can’t take full FL any and need colder winters than we get. One of our Sabal minors planted at the edge of our Garden Lot appeared to have been destroyed like everything around it. 2-1/2 months after Ian the ruffled edge of a green leaf appeared from the torn up soil. It’s a keeper.

[Ben G.]

4 hours ago, Allen said:

Yes S. minor are really tough.  arguably the most cold hardy palm especially for wet winter areas.

I know I have never lost one due to any amount of cold or snow. When grown wild without any care though, they grow pretty darn slowly.

[Ben G.]

4 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Very tough. Down here they are tougher than Rhapidophyllum, which can’t take full FL any and need colder winters than we get. One of our Sabal minors planted at the edge of our Garden Lot appeared to have been destroyed like everything around it. 2-1/2 months after Ian the ruffled edge of a green leaf appeared from the torn up soil. It’s a keeper.

If they will tolerate my snow and your storm surge, I think that qualifies them for the, perhaps over-used, title of "tough as nails."

[amh]

I love Sabal minor and they are tough as nails for the weather and herbivore grazing, but unfortunately root damage is their Achilles heel. This is only a problem if there are digging animals around.

[Ben G.]

2 hours ago, amh said:

I love Sabal minor and they are tough as nails for the weather and herbivore grazing, but unfortunately root damage is their Achilles heel. This is only a problem if there are digging animals around.

That is probably why I haven't had any problems then. Our soil is more rock than dirt. The dirt that is there is a very fine, red, sticky clay. So I have never seen evidence of moles or gophers in my 6 years here. When I lived in Oklahoma City on the other hand, I battled moles constantly.

[SeanK]

Certainly more versatile than Rhapidophyllum. Needles definitely don't want to be wet in the winter.

[RJ]

14 hours ago, Ben OK said:

I know I have never lost one due to any amount of cold or snow. When grown wild without any care though, they grow pretty darn slowly.

I think mostly because they grow in the shade as an understory palm. I’ve got a few wild ones on my property that have been here since I purchased it in 2018 and they haven’t grown much … 

[knikfar]

They might be tied with windmill palm for the most common species here in Raleigh, NC. I've seen them growing in the most inhospitable looking places, clearly without ever receiving any protection or care. Not only are they tough survivors but they seed prolifically. Anywhere you see one planted, its usually surrounded by babies and you'll see other less mature but adult plants nearby, likely spread by birds. 

[Chester B]

Sabal minor is a good one in my area as well, the only issue is they tend to grow slowly here, needles are much faster.  Both don't mind our damp winters, but we don't get cold enough to test them to figure out which one is hardier in my type of climate.

[Ben G.]

8 hours ago, Chester B said:

Sabal minor is a good one in my area as well, the only issue is they tend to grow slowly here, needles are much faster.  Both don't mind our damp winters, but we don't get cold enough to test them to figure out which one is hardier in my type of climate.

That's nice that they grow so well in the PNW. They may grow slow, but at least they are pretty much care free. I haven't done anything for my landscape sabals the last couple of years and they just keep chugging along.

Needles are pretty slow for me here as well, though they seem to be picking some speed in their third season in ground.

[amh]

On 12/11/2022 at 10:30 PM, Ben OK said:

That is probably why I haven't had any problems then. Our soil is more rock than dirt. The dirt that is there is a very fine, red, sticky clay. So I have never seen evidence of moles or gophers in my 6 years here. When I lived in Oklahoma City on the other hand, I battled moles constantly.

Armadillos are the only problem here, but only indirectly.

[Chester B]

I know of about ten big ones around (4 foot +) located at a nursery and in a commercial office building garden.  I only have one larger one that is just over 3 foot but has not flowered for me, it is of unknown origin.  Picture taken last winter so its put out a couple of more fronds.  It was planted 6 years ago a seedling with some V shaped fronds.  Never protected and never damaged, or shown any spotting from winter.

 

Plus here's a video of my own seed grown "McCurtain" minors.  Seed acquired from Alligator alley in OKC 4 years back.   The cover photo is my Sabal brazoriensis not any of my minors.  I figured that photo would drum up more interest than my small minors.

 

[Looking Glass]

How drought and sun tolerant is Sabal Minor?   Do you have to keep them pretty wet and shady?   Just wondering as I think about some understory stuff.  

[amh]

1 hour ago, Looking Glass said:

How drought and sun tolerant is Sabal Minor?   Do you have to keep them pretty wet and shady?   Just wondering as I think about some understory stuff.  

They love heat and sun, but growth will slow to nothing if it is too dry.

[PalmatierMeg]

3 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

How drought and sun tolerant is Sabal Minor?   Do you have to keep them pretty wet and shady?   Just wondering as I think about some understory stuff.  

They are drought tolerant but grow faster with regular water. Sabals love full sun.

[Ben G.]

5 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

How drought and sun tolerant is Sabal Minor?   Do you have to keep them pretty wet and shady?   Just wondering as I think about some understory stuff.  

They like lots of sun and water, but they are are fine with shade and drought too. They survive just about anywhere here, but they grow faster in better conditions.

[Looking Glass]

8 hours ago, amh said:

They love heat and sun, but growth will slow to nothing if it is too dry.

 

6 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

They are drought tolerant but grow faster with regular water. Sabals love full sun.

 

3 hours ago, Ben OK said:

They like lots of sun and water, but they are are fine with shade and drought too. They survive just about anywhere here, but they grow faster in better conditions.

I’m starting to think a little about smaller stuff that can handle the sun.  Always curious about sabal minor, but don’t have any experience with them.  They are natives, so I figured they would be a good choice for low maintenance small stuff.  Glad to hear that they’ll fit well in certain spots and I won’t have to baby them too much.  I can water like a champ, but glad to hear I can go on vacation too, and not find them as shriveled straw on returning home.  Thanks!  

[PalmTreeDude]

Sabal minor are crazy tough, they'll take almost anything once they're rooted in. I've seen them get run over, stepped on, flooded out, snowed on, and covered in ice and they came back. Very slow though, I highly recommend getting some larger ones first then messing around with seed growing them. 

[daxin]

My Sabal minor does not like strong winds. The leaves get tattered and sometimes collapse at the attachment point to the petioles. I have to cut off a lot of damaged leaves this spring and I actually like the upright look very much. But winter is here again, and some wind tearing is happening

 

[teddytn]

Great thread! Feel like minors get a bad rap. I know their not the typical trunking palm everyone thinks of, top of the list in my book though! 

[PalmatierMeg]

On 12/11/2022 at 6:29 PM, Ben OK said:

If they will tolerate my snow and your storm surge, I think that qualifies them for the, perhaps over-used, title of "tough as nails."

No storm surge here in central Cape but I have no doubt Sabal minor could survive one. This one just got crushed by falling trees/palms then run over by lot clearing machinery that chewed up substrate.

[Allen]

Pretty tough.  Tiny pin spotted frond damage after this is all.

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Allen

[RyManUtah]

Worth a note - I have strap leaves in a few places, and they can even handle the Mojave sun. They’ve seen 47c a few afternoons. 

[Chester B]

4 hours ago, RyManUtah said:

Worth a note - I have strap leaves in a few places, and they can even handle the Mojave sun. They’ve seen 47c a few afternoons. 

Mine took the same temps without flinching.

[cm05]

A flash drought took out one of the two Minors I planted this summer. Both planted in full sun against a south-facing wall, the palm completely disintegrated by late-August, the other was stressed with folded fronds but recovered after the first couple of rain events in September, it put out new growth into October so I’m hoping it’s established enough to brave its first winter in the ground. Its roots have been frozen completely solid on multiple occasions in a pot with no damage.

Being in zone 7 I’m more concerned about the moisture than the cold, but I’ve never had a Sabal minor spear pull, whereas every Needle (pups included) and some Trachy's have.

[Sabal King]

12 hours ago, Chester B said:

Mine took the same temps without flinching.

I planted dozens of single strap lead S. Minor seedlings, palmettos,  Louisiana, Birmingham, riverside and many more varieties last January right before our coldest of the year....  They didn't flinch, grew multiple leaves this year, and again, didn't show worse for wear.  Sabals are WAY tougher than people think.

I have a few sabal minors in the front of the property, that NEVER get supplemental water and during our drought and heat this summer... looked dead.. shriveled strap leaves, but sure enough fall came, we got rain and they are plump and growing now.

[Fallen Munk]

Tough as nails.  My only issue with them is they look tattered.  My wife calls mine "that scraggly palm". 

[Matt N- Dallas]

Here’s sabal minor ‘Mc Curtain County’ growing in Kansas City, Missouri z6.  These have been growing for more than 20 years.  

[Ben G.]

8 hours ago, Matt N- Dallas said:

Here’s sabal minor ‘Mc Curtain County’ growing in Kansas City, Missouri z6.  These have been growing for more than 20 years.  

Pretty impressive Matt. I have never seen any zone 6 palms in person before. 

My birminghams and palmetto look rough right now. I planted them because I wanted more size than a regular sabal minor. There is a big minor planted at my parents house (east central OK) that barley looks fazed by the same storm that fried my sabals. My sabals are bigger than the minor at my parents' house, so I guess I got what I wanted. Their palm will look good by April though, while mine are going to look like crap until August. 

[Wstt]

Hi. Thanks for the info on the previous posts. Does anyone know how wind resistant the Sabal minor is? Does the fan part keep its shape or get broken up and damaged from wind? 
Has anyone heard of results when growing in zone 12? Would they get taller there? 
thanks. 

[Ben G.]

In my experience they can look battered if they are planted in windy locations. There are some forms of S. minor that are stiffer and hold their shape better than others though. I believe the Warren Arkansas ecotype is supposed to be more upright and wind resistant than most.

As for height, I don't think they would be much taller in a warmer climate. They stretch out some in the shade, and some forms are larger than others. 'louisiana, birmingham, and Hatteras are some of the larger forms. I have seen louisianas in zone 7 Oklahoma City at right about the 6.5 ft/2 m mark. That is about as big as I have seen though.

[RFun]

On 12/11/2022 at 1:04 PM, Ben OK said:

I have lived in my current home in Cherokee county Oklahoma for about 6 years. Over the years I have planted lots of small sabal minor seedlings throughout my 5 acres of mostly wooded space. I believe I also planted at least a few palmettos too, though I no longer remember which ones they were. Over my time here we have experienced winter lows of -2F, -2F, 10F, -14F, and 8F.

Our summers had been pretty mild, without significant drought until the summer of 2022. This summer saw about two solid months of highs ranging from 95F to 105F, and several stretches of 3 to 5 weeks with no rain at all. On the plus side, I didn't do much mowing this year. On the downside, I watered my garden much more than normal. During these years, none of my sabal minor seedlings were given any supplemental water or any cover in winter.

As I cleared leaf litter from a trail in our forest yesterday, I snapped some photos of these seedlings after all of the cold, heat, and drought. Not bad for no protection in zone 7a:

Seedlings in the woods:

 

Yes, some hardy palms, no doubt.