Which Palms can I keep wrapped up all winter

[Palmfarmer]

The coldest time of the year is approaching. There is usually the coldest from 20 dec to 1 February and then the winter is usually over. 

I was thinking about just wrapping some of the most tender palms for the whole period if it is possible.

Method: I got incandescent christmas lights and Burlap. Thought about tieing up the fronds first then wrapping the palm in Christmas lights and finally give it 3-4 layers of burlap and mulch really high. I doubt rot will be an issue since the likelyhood of rain is superlow. 

The species I would like to Protect are Kentia, Makesty, Royal and some Teddybear palms.

Lastly I am wondering about if my potted stuff will survive indoor for a month. Got a Eastfacing window the gives medium sunlight. 

Species I plan to set inside are Licuala, Coconut, and a Blue Latania. 

Would greatly appreciate any tips and inputs on my plan it. Thank you 

[Jim in Los Altos]

I notice that your average winter high temperatures are in the 70s and lows in the upper 30s. If you don’t typically go below freezing and it warms up so nicely during the day, I doubt you need to wrap anything unless it’s ultra tropical. I’m in a much cooler climate than you and never wrap anything and some would be considered tender like my several Licuala. What palm species are you thinking of wrapping? Long term wrapping can be detrimental if it’s warm (70s and up) during the daytime hours. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Jim in Los Altos

[SHEP]

I would wrap first and put lighting on top.  I have used old fashioned Christmas lights that generate heat.  You want to have the lights to generate heat, but I am not sure what it would do to put right up next to plant tissue, and then cover up.  I would hope the lights could generate heat around palm, and the heat would rise up around fronds.  No problem wrapping up the fronds as well from top to bottom.  This is what I have done in cold nights.  I don't leave all winter though.  But, our cold is sporadic, and I want my palms to continue to photosynthesize and be healthy, after this stressful event.  But, I live in a cold sink in Northern California, and cold nights are sporadic, not continual all through the winter.  I use Edith Bergstrom's strategy, who  planted her Rhopies under redwoods, unfortunately the Rhopies can get pretty big, and that strategy only works for a short while.

I have a two story  building behind my house and I suspect they keep the heat on and this raises the temperature for my back palms.  My back P Rupicola (22' tall), was ok last year, but my same age twin P Rupicola in front got some lower burned fronds (the outer edges of the lower fronds).  I suspect it will be ok as it gets a little taller.  I always thought that it was colder higher up, but these fronds were less vertical, and more exterior, so maybe its possible that it is warmer near the palm's center.  Also, palms in pots, (nice to be able to move) suffer more.  So, I move everything up against the house and close to my glass, sliding doors, where it is warmer.  Its a hassle, but its only the palms I am growing up to plant.  I am going to plant some larger Kentias this Spring, under my redwoods, and over my sensitive palms for winter cover.  I don't have the room to put in bigger, less cold reactive palms.  I will sacrifice flowers with less light, but the strategy is to have cover.  So far, my Kentias and Archophoenix do just fine in the last 15 years, close to the house, or up and under my redwood cover.  I recognize this will not help in a significant event.  

I have a very healthy 4' Laccospadix Australasica, that is growing up, under my large Brahea Mooreii, that I plan to move this Spring into a less protected spot.  I might chicken out and let it grow up and over the palm, but after my experience of my D. Ambositrae, I don't think it is in warm enough spot for the long run.  Sorry it's dark, so I take and  show  pictures.  We make a three pole PVC teepee around palm, drill holes and wire together at the top, and use that as a frame to wrap the palms, and the ground heat radiates, we have through the center.  I make sure the fabric, we use beach towels to cover the frame,  ( I also have industrial frost cloth (AgriBond) for more severe events)  I make sure each towel hits the ground to keep in the heat.  It only works with less mature palms because of the size.  I did this with my Satsuma Mandarins when they were immature.   Cecile

[Jim in Los Altos]

1 hour ago, SHEP said:

I would wrap first and put lighting on top.  I have used old fashioned Christmas lights that generate heat.  You want to have the lights to generate heat, but I am not sure what it would do to put right up next to plant tissue, and then cover up.  I would hope the lights could generate heat around palm, and the heat would rise up around fronds.  No problem wrapping up the fronds as well from top to bottom.  This is what I have done in cold nights.  I don't leave all winter though.  But, our cold is sporadic, and I want my palms to continue to photosynthesize and be healthy, after this stressful event.  But, I live in a cold sink in Northern California, and cold nights are sporadic, not continual all through the winter.  I use Edith Bergstrom's strategy, who  planted her Rhopies under redwoods, unfortunately the Rhopies can get pretty big, and that strategy only works for a short while.

I have a two story  building behind my house and I suspect they keep the heat on and this raises the temperature for my back palms.  My back P Rupicola (22' tall), was ok last year, but my same age twin P Rupicola in front got some lower burned fronds (the outer edges of the lower fronds).  I suspect it will be ok as it gets a little taller.  I always thought that it was colder higher up, but these fronds were less vertical, and more exterior, so maybe its possible that it is warmer near the palm's center.  Also, palms in pots, (nice to be able to move) suffer more.  So, I move everything up against the house and close to my glass, sliding doors, where it is warmer.  Its a hassle, but its only the palms I am growing up to plant.  I am going to plant some larger Kentias this Spring, under my redwoods, and over my sensitive palms for winter cover.  I don't have the room to put in bigger, less cold reactive palms.  I will sacrifice flowers with less light, but the strategy is to have cover.  So far, my Kentias and Archophoenix do just fine in the last 15 years, close to the house, or up and under my redwood cover.  I recognize this will not help in a significant event.  

I have a very healthy 4' Laccospadix Australasica, that is growing up, under my large Brahea Mooreii, that I plan to move this Spring into a less protected spot.  I might chicken out and let it grow up and over the palm, but after my experience of my D. Ambositrae, I don't think it is in warm enough spot for the long run.  Sorry it's dark, so I take and  show  pictures.  We make a three pole PVC teepee around palm, drill holes and wire together at the top, and use that as a frame to wrap the palms, and the ground heat radiates, we have through the center.  I make sure the fabric, we use beach towels to cover the frame,  ( I also have industrial frost cloth (AgriBond) for more severe events)  I make sure each towel hits the ground to keep in the heat.  It only works with less mature palms because of the size.  I did this with my Satsuma Mandarins when they were immature.   Cecile

Cecile, These are his average temperatures. It’s pretty doubtful that he needs to wrap anything. It’s just too warm even in winter. 
 

[GottmitAlex]

You have no clue.  It was -3C last night at the capital. (Durango city proper)

 

[GottmitAlex]

I suggest to set up a brood (incandescent) 75 -125w lamp trained on your palms.  Seems you haven't gone under -6C in the past 5 years.  I think you can manage it. 

 

[Merlyn]

8 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Cecile, These are his average temperatures. It’s pretty doubtful that he needs to wrap anything. It’s just too warm even in winter. 
 

The average high/low here in Orlando is 70/50F for January, but last year at the end of February my backyard saw 4 hours of 24-26F.  His location has about the same highs, which would definitely help.  But with average lows 10F colder than here, there are probably going to be many nights at or near freezing.   Kentia, Majesty, Royal and Teddybear are going to seriously suffer (or die) without some help.  My small Teddybears both died after a single night at 28F with frost.

[Allen]

On 12/13/2022 at 5:48 AM, Palmfarmer said:

The coldest time of the year is approaching. There is usually the coldest from 20 dec to 1 February and then the winter is usually over. 

I was thinking about just wrapping some of the most tender palms for the whole period if it is possible.

Method: I got incandescent christmas lights and Burlap. Thought about tieing up the fronds first then wrapping the palm in Christmas lights and finally give it 3-4 layers of burlap and mulch really high. I doubt rot will be an issue since the likelyhood of rain is superlow. 

The species I would like to Protect are Kentia, Makesty, Royal and some Teddybear palms.

Lastly I am wondering about if my potted stuff will survive indoor for a month. Got a Eastfacing window the gives medium sunlight. 

Species I plan to set inside are Licuala, Coconut, and a Blue Latania. 

Would greatly appreciate any tips and inputs on my plan it. Thank you 

Heat cable or Christmas incandescent mini lights wrapped directly over palm then frost cloth or burlap on top with a regulator like a thermocube.   Never wrap C7 or C9 lights under a wrap directly on the palm.  My Youtube channel has some of my methods on video. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

18 hours ago, Merlyn said:

The average high/low here in Orlando is 70/50F for January, but last year at the end of February my backyard saw 4 hours of 24-26F.  His location has about the same highs, which would definitely help.  But with average lows 10F colder than here, there are probably going to be many nights at or near freezing.   Kentia, Majesty, Royal and Teddybear are going to seriously suffer (or die) without some help.  My small Teddybears both died after a single night at 28F with frost.

You really can’t compare Orlando with Durango, two completely different climates and locations. My Dec. average here in Los Altos. CA, much cooler than Orlando’s for instance, is 62°/44° and it hasn’t gone down to freezing since 2007, fifteen years ago. It’s MUCH drier in Durango in the winter with virtually no precipitation November through May. Annual rainfall is only 2.36 inches. Very dry and very different than Orlando which is very humid by comparison. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Jim in Los Altos

[Merlyn]

4 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

You really can’t compare Orlando with Durango, two completely different climates and locations. My Dec. average here in Los Altos. CA, much cooler than Orlando’s for instance, is 62°/44° and it hasn’t gone down to freezing since 2007, fifteen years ago. It’s MUCH drier in Durango in the winter with virtually no precipitation November through May. Annual rainfall is only 2.36 inches. Very dry and very different than Orlando which is very humid by comparison. 

This week Durango airport is forecast to hit 34, 34, 34, 33, 34, 31, 29F.  That's 7 days near or below freezing, with more on the way.  Durango probably doesn't get frost, but Orlando wouldn't *ever* see 7 days in a row near freezing.  We'd get one night at 30F surrounded by a week on each end that doesn't go below 50. 

So Kentia, Majesty, Royal and Teddybear don't need protection for 7 straight days at or within 2F of freezing?

 

[Jim in Los Altos]

6 hours ago, Merlyn said:

This week Durango airport is forecast to hit 34, 34, 34, 33, 34, 31, 29F.  That's 7 days near or below freezing, with more on the way.  Durango probably doesn't get frost, but Orlando wouldn't *ever* see 7 days in a row near freezing.  We'd get one night at 30F surrounded by a week on each end that doesn't go below 50. 

So Kentia, Majesty, Royal and Teddybear don't need protection for 7 straight days at or within 2F of freezing?

 

And daytime temps there this week and most of winter are in the mid 70s. None of those palms you mentioned need protection with above freezing temperatures at night and those very warm daytime highs. A dry short duration 29° is harmless as well. 

[Fishinsteeg234]

However, all it takes to regret not covering is a scenario by trusting a 33 degree forecast, then waking up to find out it actually reached 27 with frost. I think we all agree that long term covering all winter is a bad idea, but some protection during this stretch may be wise. What’s there to lose?….just all your young fragile palms. 

[Merlyn]

58 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

And daytime temps there this week and most of winter are in the mid 70s. None of those palms you mentioned need protection with above freezing temperatures at night and those very warm daytime highs. A dry short duration 29° is harmless as well. 

Howea: CA reports of no damage at 30-32F, 50% burn at 26-29F, and dead at 24-26F.

Roystonea: several CA reports of 50-80% damage at 26-30F.  Other reports of no damage above 30F, and death at 24F.

Majesty: CA reports of no damage at 30F and up, slight damage at 28-29F, 50% damage at 26 and death below 24.

Teddybear: CA reports no damage above 27-28, defoliated at 26F. 

This is data taken from Kinzyjr's spreadsheet with my best estimate of average damage at the temps.  So here's a question I don't know the answer to:  If a palm (like Majesty) generally takes no damage at 30F and up, is there a cumulative damage from 5 nights in a row at 29-31F?  Or is it just a sort of "set threshold" where if it doesn't hit 28F there's never any damage?  This never happens here in Floriduh, so I really don't know.

[Jim in Los Altos]

41 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

Howea: CA reports of no damage at 30-32F, 50% burn at 26-29F, and dead at 24-26F.

Roystonea: several CA reports of 50-80% damage at 26-30F.  Other reports of no damage above 30F, and death at 24F.

Majesty: CA reports of no damage at 30F and up, slight damage at 28-29F, 50% damage at 26 and death below 24.

Teddybear: CA reports no damage above 27-28, defoliated at 26F. 

This is data taken from Kinzyjr's spreadsheet with my best estimate of average damage at the temps.  So here's a question I don't know the answer to:  If a palm (like Majesty) generally takes no damage at 30F and up, is there a cumulative damage from 5 nights in a row at 29-31F?  Or is it just a sort of "set threshold" where if it doesn't hit 28F there's never any damage?  This never happens here in Floriduh, so I really don't know.

That may be true for one grower. It really depends on many factors. All those palm species you mentioned remained unscathed in my garden in 2007 when it dipped to 26°F and remained chilly for several days. I had superficial burn on some of my Archontophoenix but all of my other 130+ species were fine. Palms, even the more tender ones, do better if they have some “hardening off” time prior to a freeze. In my climate, chilly nights in the 40s are consistent from early November on with upper 30s common in Dec. and Jan. I have Licuala, Wodyetia, Roystonea and many others in the “tender” category and they thrive albeit grow much more slowly than in a climate that’s milder.

Also, a dry freeze is WAY less damaging than a wet one. If we get cold here, it’s on windless cloudless nights with a northerly atmospheric flow. Any wind actually warms the air. Durango is much warmer during their winter days than we are here which is MAJOR in determining potential damage to palms since a 75° day will take a long time to drop to 32° by the following morning and the process will include a lengthy period of 40s to 60s before reaching that ultimate low. 
 

This is my garden today after two weeks of 33°-37° nights and pretty much low 40s since mid November. It looks no different than in the summer. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Jim in Los Altos

[GottmitAlex]

In 2007 I was oblivious about palms vis a vis weather. How cold did it get in San Diego?

[Jim in Los Altos]

22 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

In 2007 I was oblivious about palms vis a vis weather. How cold did it get in San Diego?

The lowest I found was 35.1°F on Jan. 15, 2007 in San Diego. There were likely lower temperatures in other parts of San Diego County though. It covers a large area. San Marcos and Oceanside dropped to 20° for instance according to archives. That’s surprising. My official temp. Was 27° up here in the Bay Area that day. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Jim in Los Altos