Bismark still not doing well

[Linescreamer]

Some may recall.  I planted 2 Bismarks from the nursery about 4 months ago.  I have been patient as I know they take a while to adjust to the transplanting.  Granted, we have had a couple storms with 75 mph winds but I don't think that's what's causing my frond breakage.  If seem that the fronds are shredding and breaking.  Some near the ends and some where they attach to the stem.  Any help would be appreciated. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Linescreamer

[Billeb]

I can’t remember if I commented on the old thread or not, or what information was given to you. Did you determine if the trees are actually still growing by marking the new spears and monitoring? Is it possible the roots were disturbed during transplanting? What is your watering schedule? What location / zone are you in? 
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get more information on the topic. The tree(s) do look like they are pretty beat up but those fronds will die off in time. You gotta make sure the trees are still growing. 
 

As a note: I planted out a good sized 20G nearly two years ago and the tree has flourished with little to no Maint. I live in Southern California, the tree is in full sun, it’s watered above average and seems to take feeding well. 
 

-dale

[Linescreamer]

I am in central Florida zone 10A. It rains at least once a week.  I have also used a slow release fertilizer on them every 6 weeks.  I don't think the roots were disturbed too much and not sure if it's growing.  They are both in full sun all day and the one pictured above is the worst of the two.  I haven't noticed any new fronds. What is the best way to track growth?  Thank you

Edited December 17, 2022 by Linescreamer

[Will]

4 hours ago, Linescreamer said:

I am in central Florida zone 10A. It rains at least once a week.  I have also used a slow release fertilizer on them every 6 weeks.  I don't think the roots were disturbed too much and not sure if it's growing.  They are both in full sun all day and the one pictured above is the worst of the two.  I haven't noticed any new fronds. What is the best way to track growth?  Thank you

Take a marker and draw a line at the center spear and the the fonds next to it. The Center spear line should move up with time.

I transplanted my Bismarckia a few months ago and I noticed no growth at all...it's holding on to 2 fonds but just doesn't grow..

[Billeb]

4 hours ago, Linescreamer said:

I am in central Florida zone 10A. It rains at least once a week.  I have also used a slow release fertilizer on them every 6 weeks.  I don't think the roots were disturbed too much and not sure if it's growing.  They are both in full sun all day and the one pictured above is the worst of the two.  I haven't noticed any new fronds. What is the best way to track growth?  Thank you

As @Will stated. Take a sharpee marker and mark a line next to another frond. I did this directly after planting out my Bismarckia and noticed it wasn’t growing. Turns out the frond I used adjacent to the spear was still moving slightly so it appeared the spear had no movement. Just make sure your mark can determine if it is indeed moving. If there’s no movement after a couple weeks, it’s bad. There should be movement every day honestly. 
 

Everything else you are doing seems right on par. I’d bet the roots got cut or damaged during planting. Out of curiousity….was the tree oversized for its container? If so, it very likely had large roots around the periphery and although careful, these could have been inadvertently damaged. Not sure where you got them but if they were field grown and recently put in the pots, that could be a major issue as well. They don’t like to be disturbed at all. Once they are in the ground, leave em. 
 

-dale 

[Linescreamer]

Thank you for the response.  These are both field grown and approx 1,500 lbs 12 feet tall. What do I do if they are not growing?  Here are more pictures.  The top 2 pictures are from the weaker tree. The bottom is from the one that looks better.  They were both planted in September. Any other thoughts?

[mnorell]

Bismarckia is of course notorious for root-sensitivity; and palms in general will have a shock/readjustment period after large-size transplanting. Even at smaller sizes, many species can be very finnicky...I planted a one-gallon Roystonea oleracea at our place in the Keys in 2018 and unwittingly snapped off both of the largest roots in the process. It stalled, fumed and cursed at me for about a year before it decided to grow again, while its mate (which I managed to plant undamaged) went to town very quickly. Those palms are now about 20' tall.

And on that subject, it is in my own opinion--and I have actually witnessed it in real time, with Sabal palmetto in Natchez, Mississippi--a truism that a small palm will in many cases outpace these large field-grown transplants in short order. And out here in Rancho Mirage, in the Palm Springs area, we have a neighbor who brought in good-sized Phoenix dactylifera in front of their house for instant effect. I queried the landscaper who installed and cares for them about their growth rate. He said they had grown only a couple of feet in about seven years...and agreed about the differential in growth rates between young palms and specimen transplants. He told me he also had a customer who would only plant her date palms from seed sown in situ, and in that same time period, she had palms that went from seed to over 15' in height, as large as the transplants we were discussing.

Hopefully your specimens will stabilize and start growing...but for any future plantings you may be considering, if you can marshal the patience, you might save yourself a lot of financial cost and anxiety/aggravation by planting a healthy 3- or 7-gallon palm, spend extra money preparing the soil around it, and enjoying watching it grow. In a few short years (Bismarckia are fast growers in Florida) it would be the size of the large specimens you planted (and would likely outpace them in short order). And you can always plant a fast-growing, disposable vertical element, such as a banana, near it while it grows, then remove it once the palm stands on its own as an architectural element of your landscape. I understand that for many folks wanting that instant effect, this is very difficult, but it is a winning strategy in the long term.

[Fishinsteeg234]

@LinescreamerI think your Bismarck looks fine to me considering it was planted only 4 months ago and it has gone through two named storms since. It’s also going into winter and there are some colder temperatures headed our way soon here in central florida. The tree is just going through normal root shock acclimation and may appear to be dormant until spring. I wouldn’t apply any chemical fertilizers this winter and try to avoid supplemental water through any of the upcoming cold events to avoid any further root burns or potential rot. However the rootball still needs to be kept moist but not saturated. Keep the tattered fronds as they are, they are still needed for energy production. You may not see anything growing this winter due to all the energy going underground into root rebuilding growth. I imagine by the first week of March this beauty will start to take off and look great.  Just wait a little longer until spring. 

[Johnny Palmseed]

It will take several months for these to settle in but I don’t think Bismarckias are a great field grown palm. Their root sensitivity seems to create a high potential for transplant failure. Several years ago, someone decided that we needed these for our roadway liners in certain areas. They brought in several and planted them alongside date palms. Many of the Bismarckias did not make it.

I completely agree with @mnorellin regards to planting a smaller palm. In a few years, you won’t notice the difference. I had 2 royals planted a few years apart. One was a seedling and the other was a 25 gallon overgrown behemoth that I bought because it was a “good deal” and was close to the size of the seedling at that time. Well, the behemoth took a break after planting for what seemed like years. By the time it finished putting out roots, the seedling was considerably larger and never looked back. The 25 gallon never came close to the other one and ended up about the size it would have been if I had just bought a smaller one. 
 

Obviously you already have these and so some of this info is a moot point. Hopefully they will make it but did you get any sort of warranty with purchase?

[Linescreamer]

Thanks for all your help. No warranty

[Merlyn]

@Linescreamersometimes it helps to keep all the info in a single thread, that way we can see the history and any earlier issues & treatment for it.  The earlier thread was here: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/75246-newbee-needs-help-with-bismark/

 

As far as growth rate, the sharpie is the best tool right now.  Mine are growing but pretty slowly.  I noted in previous years that they grew short fronds that opened a few feet shorter than the summer-grown fronds.  I've read on the forums that others had similarly short fronds in the winter, so don't be concerned if that happens.

For the leaf damage, yours looks pretty similar to my biggest one in the backyard.  It was open to the two hurricanes and saw some pretty huge gusts.  The front yard one is about 12' from the house and didn't see that much damage.  Here's mine today:

[Will]

After 4-5months first signs of growth. Used some hydrogen peroxide and it foamed a bit. Guess that killed the rot, since then its been starting to push. 

[Linescreamer]

Here are my growth results for the last 2 months.  On the second picture (tree), I didn't mark the spear. However. the adjacent fund grew about 2 feet (see small mark top left). The first pictur/tree did grow about a foot.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Linescreamer
picture order

[Linescreamer]

I am curious as to the proper watering schedule.  One a week?

[Little Tex]

1 hour ago, Linescreamer said:

I am curious as to the proper watering schedule.  One a week?

How fast does the soil drain?

[Linescreamer]

On 2/24/2023 at 12:01 PM, Little Tex said:

How fast does the soil drain?

I guess quickly.  It's mostly sand here in Florida. I was thinking I should put mulch around the trunks.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Linescreamer