Palm freeze protection

[KsLouisiana]

Hey palmtalkers.  So here in Lake Charles they are forecasting around 20 for a low over the next few nights! Terrible... But I have a few Queen palms. The tallest is about 20ft. A bismarck that is about 7 ft and a phoenix roebelenii that is about 5ft. Along with a myer lemon, satsuma, lila avocado and a grapefruit tree. I bought a bunch of fabrick and heat lamps and some heat tape.  I plan on doing a heat lamp on the bismarck, citrus,  and definitely the phoenix. What do y'all think? Should they all be okay? What about the queen palms? Should I bother protecting the 20 footer? Any comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[Jtee]

What did you wrap around that protected palm? 

[KsLouisiana]

Top is a bed sheet and the side is a felt type of weed barrier

[KsLouisiana]

But I will be putting a light bulb under that

[Allen]

for the queen wrap a heat source (preferably Christmas mini lights) around a 8 foot tall or longer pole and secure to trunk going to about where the V in the picture is.  Wrap bottom trunk with heat source (mini lights or heat tape) , Then mummy wrap over all starting at bottom preferably with frost cloth, tie fronds if need be.  Top of fronds may stick out and be uncoverable  Lowes (I was there today) had these supplies.   Roebellini is basically same you will need to tie up those prickly fronds then do the same without the pole.   Only plug in when you absolutely need to without a thermocube. 

Multicolor sucks but this is what your store has.  Use 3 strands lights on Queen, 2 on roebellini

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Holiday-Living-HL-100-CT-Mini-Light-Set-Multi/1001813154

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Greenscapes-50-ft-x-6-ft-Spun-Bond-Material-Blanket/1002883662

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Panacea-Products-8-ft-Tall-Heavy-Duty-Garden-Stake/1000489847

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Allen

[KsLouisiana]

25 minutes ago, Allen said:

for the queen wrap a heat source (preferably Christmas mini lights) around a 8 foot tall or longer pole and secure to trunk going to about where the V in the picture is.  Wrap bottom trunk with heat source (mini lights or heat tape) , Then mummy wrap over all starting at bottom preferably with frost cloth, tie fronds if need be.  Top of fronds may stick out and be uncoverable  Lowes (I was there today) had these supplies.   Roebellini is basically same you will need to tie up those prickly fronds then do the same without the pole.   Only plug in when you absolutely need to without a thermocube. 

Multicolor sucks but this is what your store has.  Use 3 strands lights on Queen, 2 on roebellini

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Holiday-Living-HL-100-CT-Mini-Light-Set-Multi/1001813154

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Greenscapes-50-ft-x-6-ft-Spun-Bond-Material-Blanket/1002883662

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Panacea-Products-8-ft-Tall-Heavy-Duty-Garden-Stake/1000489847

 

Allen thank you for the above and beyond response. Even looked at my lowes inventory.  I really do thank ya. I even thought about starting a fire under the queen palm for a couple nights. I think the wind might be too high for that to work though. Have you ever tried that? The queen is out by the road but I can probably run a few extension cords out there.

[Allen]

24 minutes ago, KsLouisiana said:

Allen thank you for the above and beyond response. Even looked at my lowes inventory.  I really do thank ya. I even thought about starting a fire under the queen palm for a couple nights. I think the wind might be too high for that to work though. Have you ever tried that? The queen is out by the road but I can probably run a few extension cords out there.

Yes (The pole and lights) it's on my 15' mule right now.  Look at my Youtube I don't generally recommend things I haven't tried.  I just ordered 45 sets of the clear for $1 each as that is a bargain and I use a ton of them.  ie the wind put 2 - 3 wraps of frost cloth and you're good.   Haven't tried a fire, that sounds like a bad idea.  

Edited December 21, 2022 by Allen

[KsLouisiana]

Thanks Allen. Okay yeah the fire might now be all that effective and I can't stay awake for 3 nights in a row. Lol. Christmas lights sound safe and easy. Thank ya sir! Good luck to you! I saw on your YouTube channel y'all might be at 0°??? Yikes man. Think you're ready for that?

[Allen]

2 minutes ago, KsLouisiana said:

Thanks Allen. Okay yeah the fire might now be all that effective and I can't stay awake for 3 nights in a row. Lol. Christmas lights sound safe and easy. Thank ya sir! Good luck to you! I saw on your YouTube channel y'all might be at 0°??? Yikes man. Think you're ready for that?

Yea but gonna take some damage.  I have a lot of palms.  the lights heat well.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Allen

[KsLouisiana]

Just now, Allen said:

Yea but gonna take some damage.  I have a lot of palms

I appreciate your dedication sir. It's all worth it in the summer im sure when you can have a drink under the only mule palm in Tennessee.  What is your opinion of Christmas lights, then a blanket, then shrink wrap? If only for a few days?

[Allen]

7 minutes ago, KsLouisiana said:

I appreciate your dedication sir. It's all worth it in the summer im sure when you can have a drink under the only mule palm in Tennessee.  What is your opinion of Christmas lights, then a blanket, then shrink wrap? If only for a few days?

You will be fine with that if we're talking mini lights and you turn them off when temps are ok during the day.  I much prefer though a thermocube or a wifi thermometer in the palm with that.  Leave a small 1 inch air gap where the blanket wraps the palm.  

[KsLouisiana]

43 minutes ago, Allen said:

You will be fine with that if we're talking mini lights and you turn them off when temps are ok during the day.  I much prefer though a thermocube or a wifi thermometer in the palm with that.  Leave a small 1 inch air gap where the blanket wraps the palm.  

Okay cool. Thanks.  Okay well I feel pretty Okay about everything.  I don't think we're gonna get wiped out this week.  I guess we have to expect freezes from time to time.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

8 hours ago, KsLouisiana said:

What about the queen palms? Should I bother protecting the 20 footer?

In my area queens are only good down to 24° anything below that is total defoliation with very little chance of survival. Bismarckia are actually more bud hardy during Palmageddon. The 20' queen is gonna need a heating cable for its best chance at survival. This definitely doesn't seem like a repeat of Palmageddon so we shall see 

T J 

[FMG]

4 hours ago, Allen said:

Yea but gonna take some damage.  I have a lot of palms.  the lights heat well.

Just ran pretty much your exact scenario here with my 10 ft queen. Mini incandescent Xmas lights head to toe wrapped in a couple layers of frost cloth (w a little room for air) also head to toe, then covered in bubble wrap 2/3 of the way up, with double tree covers on top and a box wrap around most of the tree just me cause I had it handy. 
 

Probably don’t need it but also wrapped the Florida sabals in lights with focus on the growing area and a little burlap. They’ve only been in the ground 16 months but did well unprotected in 19 degrees last year. 
 

Also have October planted (late I know) smaller Bismarck, filifera, CIDP,  saw palmetto, Sylvester and sandal minor under buckets with bunches of Xmas lights. They’ll breathe tonight and get heavy moving blankets on top of everything tomorrow. 150 string lights under a plastic planting bucket with a moving blanket stays pretty damn warm. 
 

leaving needle, European fan and livistona unprotected. Lows 8-12 depending on forecast with 48 hours or so below 32.

 

bonus: newly acquired potted coco is in the bedroom for the winter 

[KsLouisiana]

56 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

In my area queens are only good down to 24° anything below that is total defoliation with very little chance of survival. Bismarckia are actually more bud hardy during Palmageddon. The 20' queen is gonna need a heating cable for its best chance at survival. This definitely doesn't seem like a repeat of Palmageddon so we shall see 

T J 

Well I would say that pur climates are pretty similar.  Santa Fe and LC aren't far away and pretty lateral. I was hoping for better than 24° for hardiness.  There's a few around that survived the freeze of 2020. But most did not. You think bismarcks are a little tougher? I'm not planning on losing my bismarck with all the protection.  

[KsLouisiana]

32 minutes ago, FMG said:

Just ran pretty much your exact scenario here with my 10 ft queen. Mini incandescent Xmas lights head to toe wrapped in a couple layers of frost cloth (w a little room for air) also head to toe, then covered in bubble wrap 2/3 of the way up, with double tree covers on top and a box wrap around most of the tree just me cause I had it handy. 
 

Probably don’t need it but also wrapped the Florida sabals in lights with focus on the growing area and a little burlap. They’ve only been in the ground 16 months but did well unprotected in 19 degrees last year. 
 

Also have October planted (late I know) smaller Bismarck, filifera, CIDP,  saw palmetto, Sylvester and sandal minor under buckets with bunches of Xmas lights. They’ll breathe tonight and get heavy moving blankets on top of everything tomorrow. 150 string lights under a plastic planting bucket with a moving blanket stays pretty damn warm. 
 

leaving needle, European fan and livistona unprotected. Lows 8-12 depending on forecast with 48 hours or so below 32.

 

bonus: newly acquired potted coco is in the bedroom for the winter 

What area are you in? What temp did your queen go though? I like the cardboard idea.  Everything you have looks healthy and great. Also your pup is adorable.  Love it

[FMG]

33 minutes ago, KsLouisiana said:

What area are you in? What temp did your queen go though? I like the cardboard idea.  Everything you have looks healthy and great. Also your pup is adorable.  Love it

Dallas area. This is the first winter for the queen.  Saw a brief 29 unprotected, but this is our first hard freeze and a real test. Thanks, the pup loves “helping” with my palm obsession.

[DonPalm]

Hey Guys! I am dreading my first winter < 30 with my 4 Sylvesters.  Going on only my second year of having them.
Would heater cable be better wrapped around the trunk or maybe weaved through the canopy nearest the middle near meristem?
Good luck to everyone!
 

[KsLouisiana]

3 hours ago, DonPalm said:

Hey Guys! I am dreading my first winter < 30 with my 4 Sylvesters.  Going on only my second year of having them.
Would heater cable be better wrapped around the trunk or maybe weaved through the canopy nearest the middle near meristem?
Good luck to everyone!
 

Hey buddy. I'm doing heat cables on one think, Christmas lights on others, and lamps on some things. I definitely just learned alot and feel more prepared.  But I do know there are a ton of Sylvester palms in my area and they all made it through 2 years ago when it went down to 16 degrees....with ice. So I wouldn't panic yet.

[mthteh1916]

13 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

In my area queens are only good down to 24° anything below that is total defoliation with very little chance of survival. Bismarckia are actually more bud hardy during Palmageddon. The 20' queen is gonna need a heating cable for its best chance at survival. This definitely doesn't seem like a repeat of Palmageddon so we shall see 

T J 

Wow, I thought Queen palms were okay as long as temp stayed above 20F. Seems like Queen's should only be grown without protection in extreme south TX and Central and S. Florida. I saw lots of Queen Palms in Barcelona Spain at latitude 41.  Just always blows my mind how every winter those of us in North America have to deal with this crap. I wish the cold would go to other places as often so maybe our really cold artic blasts wouldn't be so bad. Seems like we get the North pole shoved on us, and no one else does. 

[Fusca]

14 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

In my area queens are only good down to 24° anything below that is total defoliation with very little chance of survival. Bismarckia are actually more bud hardy during Palmageddon. The 20' queen is gonna need a heating cable for its best chance at survival. This definitely doesn't seem like a repeat of Palmageddon so we shall see 

T J 

There is some variation in cold hardiness - Uraguay sourced queens have the best hardiness but aren't easy to find.  I protected my 7' queen in January 2018 when it hit 20° (dry) wrapped with a string of incandescent lights and it showed zero damage.  Of course the taller ones are more of a challenge to protect!  Wetness also plays a role adding to the damage.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

@Fusca I agree the fact were not supposed to get any precipitation during this has me a lil more optimistic this go round. 

T J 

[smatofu]

My recommendation:

 

1. Wrap palms with heating cable. You can buy 100, 150, 200 ft cables on Amazon.

2. Wrap trunks as high as you can go with blankets, towels, etc.  Never use non-breathable materials, like foils, plastics...

3. You can put brown paper lawn bags over small palms.

 

 

 

 

 

[DonPalm]

5 hours ago, smatofu said:

My recommendation:

 

1. Wrap palms with heating cable. You can buy 100, 150, 200 ft cables on Amazon.

2. Wrap trunks as high as you can go with blankets, towels, etc.  Never use non-breathable materials, like foils, plastics...

3. You can put brown paper lawn bags over small palms.

 

 

 

 

 

Good advice!  My only concern with paper is if it gets wet, then its one big ice cube!

[DonPalm]

15 hours ago, KsLouisiana said:

Hey buddy. I'm doing heat cables on one think, Christmas lights on others, and lamps on some things. I definitely just learned alot and feel more prepared.  But I do know there are a ton of Sylvester palms in my area and they all made it through 2 years ago when it went down to 16 degrees....with ice. So I wouldn't panic yet.

Hey! Thanks for the encouraging news.  It is supposed to hit 21 here in Mandeville.  
I just added Christmas lights (non-led!)  and wrapped the trunks with tarps.   Sylvesters  are cold hardy to 15, but I cant take any chances!  They were not cheap! lol!

I don't want to wake up to this!!!!!   

Edited December 23, 2022 by DonPalm

[smatofu]

2 hours ago, DonPalm said:

Good advice!  My only concern with paper is if it gets wet, then its one big ice cube!

Those brown lawn paper bags are surprising resilient: they can get wet a few times.

Ice cube: likely when there are icy conditions, everything will cover with multiple layers of ice.  I don't know how to prevent it.

 

 

[RedRabbit]

Has anyone tried an infrared heat lamp? I’m curious how well that would work, mostly because it takes minimal effort.

[Ben G.]

In the past I haven't heated anything in my landscape, though I always cover my trachycarpus with a blanket and a tarp when we expect temps below 15F or so with freezing precipitation. Last summer I made a rough bed on a hillside for my butia and chamaerops. I have lost wrapped butia in the past even when washingtonias survived nearby.

So this year I set up a simple heating method where I set a bucket of water between the two palms in the bed. I then put a fish tank heater in the bucket and covered the bed with a tarp. I used it a couple of times earlier in the fall when we dropped just below 20F and the water in the bucket was quite warm. We hit 0F last night for our low. My biggest worry is ice accumulation inside the tarp from condensation. Time will tell whether or not this was a good protection method.

 

[Tropicdoc]

I just was making a lap checking on protections 

I noticed heat damage where a c9 Christmas bulb was against some green palm tissue

damn! Palm is either too hot or too cold!

[KsLouisiana]

4 minutes ago, Tropicdoc said:

I just was making a lap checking on protections 

I noticed heat damage where a c9 Christmas bulb was against some green palm tissue

damn! Palm is either too hot or too cold!

Dammit! Im sorry! I haven't looked at ours yet. I left all the lights and heat on all day. We shall see! Got maybe two more days to get through. I think this will be the coldest snap of the year. 

[KsLouisiana]

18 minutes ago, Tropicdoc said:

So I wrapped our biggest queen with heat tape and frost cloth (pics attached) but the leaves seem to have made it through 18°...is there any way? Also what is the freezing point of Washingtonia robusta leaves? I'm hoping all around town they're not fried. 

 

[Tropicdoc]

I should have gone with mini lights instead of c9

probably wouldn’t have happened

[Hillizard]

Happy Holidays! Sending warm thoughts to all Palm Talkers and their plants now enduring this bomb cyclone/winter freeze. Good luck to you all. Warmer weather will surely follow... eventually.

It's so cold this coconut palm has blue nuts!🤪

[DonPalm]

2 hours ago, KsLouisiana said:

 

Looking good LC!  Our low was only 25.  Prepare for the worse, hope for the best!

[Allen]

10 hours ago, Tropicdoc said:

I should have gone with mini lights instead of c9

probably wouldn’t have happened

Yes minis are much safer and in 6F my palms are sitting on 40F+.  Many times I've warned people about C9.  They can be put in a open air type enclosure not wrapped to a palm and then wrapped over.  They can fry the whole palm if wrapped over in the spear area without a thermocube.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Allen

[KsLouisiana]

8 hours ago, DonPalm said:

Looking good LC!  Our low was only 25.  Prepare for the worse, hope for the best!

Thanks! so Ready for this to be done and see the damage. Mexican fan leaves are fried I think. And a lot of other things.  We will know when it's in the 70s I about 2 days. Lol 

[RJ]

20 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Has anyone tried an infrared heat lamp? I’m curious how well that would work, mostly because it takes minimal effort.

I purchased a couple 100w ceramic one off Amazon but haven’t tried them yet. Thinking they may get too hot unless placed  pretty far back. Maybe50w would be better? 

[Allen]

4 minutes ago, RJ said:

I purchased a couple 100w ceramic one off Amazon but haven’t tried them yet. Thinking they may get too hot unless placed  pretty far back. Maybe50w would be better? 

You can use anything that has a watt rating as long as it's in a enclosure type setting and not directly touching a plant and is made wetherproof if need be.  100w ceramic = 100w of Christmas lights = 100w heater = 100 watt heat cable etc.  

[RJ]

5 minutes ago, Allen said:

You can use anything that has a watt rating as long as it's in a enclosure type setting and not directly touching a plant and is made wetherproof if need be.  100w ceramic = 100w of Christmas lights = 100w heater = 100 watt heat cable etc.  

 

This is similar to what I purchased, used in a brood light that’s used for chicken hatchlings or reptiles. I’d place it a few feet of the palm perhaps? 

[GregDFW]

1 hour ago, Allen said:

Yes minis are much safer and in 6F my palms are sitting on 40F+.  Many times I've warned people about C9.  They can be put in a open air type enclosure not wrapped to a palm and then wrapped over.  They can fry the whole palm if wrapped over in the spear area without a thermocube.

I've had C9's burn some holes in the cloth in Feb 2021 when they stayed on for about 5 days straight.  The last few years I've used a layer of frost cloth, C9's all followed by a thin tarp.  Never fully sealed up though.  Any lights in the crown area aren't covered.   Everything is hooked to a thermocube but I don't have a thermometer or sensors to get a reading of what temperature everything is getting too.

This is the first event for me to have anything on mini lights so if those are sucessful I may have to make that transition.  They are definitely easier to deal with than the large bulbs which regularly shatter and tangle up easy too.