Houston Polar Vortex 2022

[Keys6505]

After Palmageddon I posted my palm journal on here and I've referenced it several times since, so I figured I'd do it again for this massacre.  I'm in League City, TX which is mathematically 9B but functionally 9A.  My nearest weather station shows consecutive night lows of 17, 22, 27, and 29.  It did break freezing every day but just barely after the 17 degree night.

Livistona Decora- about 7' tall overall.  I defoliated prior to wrapping, 1 strand mini lights, moving blanket, wrapped in plastic.  Plastic came off today, it's going to be 33ish tonight so I'll leave blanket on until tomorrow.

8' tall clump of Arenga Engleri.  My favorite palm.  I thought I lost it after the Feb '21 freeze but it came back, although it was the slowest to recover of all of them.  Ratchet strapped everything together, put a 100w reptile heat lamp underneath, threw a drop cloth over the top and then tented with 6mil plastic.

After uncovering.  Most leaflets have that variegated look which means they'll drop but some in the center look pretty good.

[Keys6505]

Rhapis Excelsia- 7' tall clump, did surprisingly well after last freeze.  Sheet over the top, tented in plastic with a 100w bulb in a work light cage in the middle.  Uncovered today and doesn't really even look fazed at this point.

Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana- small triple about 6-7' overall.  Wrapped in C9's since there was space between the 3 trunks, wrapped in moving blanket, covered in a sheet, covered with a mattress bag.  I peeled off the sheet and plastic today and it looks pretty rough.  Don't have high hopes but after I remove the moving blanket tomorrow I'll poke around for any parts that look alive.

 

[Keys6505]

Ravenea Rivularis - 10' tall overall, I defoliated, 2 strands of mini lights, wrapped in drop cloth, wrapped in plastic.  I screwed up and plugged in the wrong extension cord and didn't realize until night 3, so no supplemental heat for the worst of it.

Brahea Clara - 1 strand mini lights and wrapped in drop cloth.  Please excuse the weeds.

 

 

[Keys6505]

Phoenix Rupicola- 3'-4'ct, heavy trim,2 strands mini lights, moving blanket.  This tree always looks bad for me even when it's not freezing.  No pics for some reason, I'll add some tomorrow.

Unprotected stuff (all "After" pics):

Bizzy 1: 2021 freeze survivor.  Leaves look much better this time than they did at the same point after 2021.

Bizzy 2: replacement for a 2021 Bizzy that didn't make it.  The wind was rough on the first night and knocked him over.  Leaves looks pretty good so far.

Small Chinensis 

Bigger Chinensis

Mule

CIDP

Sabal Mexicanum and "Filifera" I bought that are actually mostly Robusta 

And a queen that I almost tried to protect but not really

[Ivanos1982]

nice, did those king palms make it through Feb 2021?

[Arecaceus]

How is are the unproteced ones doing? Did you already check for immediate damages? Has the CIDP survived 2021 unprotected? How dry are your freezes?

[Keys6505]

8 hours ago, Ivanos1982 said:

nice, did those king palms make it through Feb 2021?

No, they were planted immediately afterwards.  I lost anything that was a hard zone push in 2021 like a small Royal, small foxtail, Roebellini, small Majesty, etc. in addition to queens, 3 other Chinensis that were the same size as the one above, a Bizzy, maybe more.

[Keys6505]

8 hours ago, Hortulanus said:

How is are the unproteced ones doing? Did you already check for immediate damages? Has the CIDP survived 2021 unprotected? How dry are your freezes?

Everything unprotected looks pretty good so far but they did for awhile after 2021 as well.  When we get into the 70s later in the week I'll start to see where the real damage is.

CIDP is a 21 survivor with no protection.  It completely defoliated but came back strong.  Was the fastest rebound of all my palms.

The 21 freeze was a wet icy mess with a lot more consecutive hours below freezing although the ultimate low was only a degree or 2 different than this blast.  This freeze was completely dry.

[strongbad635]

Just based on my observations around town, this cold event was nowhere near as bad as Feb 2021, probably because it was an extremely DRY cold event, and shorter in duration.

[Keys6505]

27 minutes ago, strongbad635 said:

Just based on my observations around town, this cold event was nowhere near as bad as Feb 2021, probably because it was an extremely DRY cold event, and shorter in duration.

I agree.  Maybe most importantly for zone pushers we didn't lose power.  In 21 I had lights on everything but they were only on intermittently for a few hrs a day.

[Xenon]

2 hours ago, strongbad635 said:

Just based on my observations around town, this cold event was nowhere near as bad as Feb 2021, probably because it was an extremely DRY cold event, and shorter in duration.

More like February 2011 than anything imo. So like 100x less severe than Feb 2021 😄.

[Xenon]

Nice palms! The decora probably would've been ok uncovered. Hope stuff recovers quickly. 

[Arecaceus]

4 hours ago, Keys6505 said:

Everything unprotected looks pretty good so far but they did for awhile after 2021 as well.  When we get into the 70s later in the week I'll start to see where the real damage is.

CIDP is a 21 survivor with no protection.  It completely defoliated but came back strong.  Was the fastest rebound of all my palms.

The 21 freeze was a wet icy mess with a lot more consecutive hours below freezing although the ultimate low was only a degree or 2 different than this blast.  This freeze was completely dry.

Oh yeah ... damage can take a while to show up... It's surprising that the CIDP had the fastest rebound. Everbody is saying that they take the longest and up to 2 years. 🧐

[Xenon]

18 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Oh yeah ... damage can take a while to show up... It's surprising that the CIDP had the fastest rebound. Everbody is saying that they take the longest and up to 2 years. 🧐

I'm much colder and further northwest from OP. Every single CIDP (ok 99%) survived 12F in 2021 here. They look like nothing happened by summer 2022. Cold and CIDP is never a concern here 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Xenon

[__nevii]

I always assumed the washingtonia to be much hardier than CIDP, simply because the former was more commonly planted throughout Houston.

What I'm also gathering is that it seems that the period from the 1990 up to late 2000s (say, 2008 or 2009) seemed to be a "golden age" of sorts for plant lovers.

Edited December 27, 2022 by __nevii

[Arecaceus]

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

I'm much colder and further northwest from OP. Every single CIDP (ok 99%) survived 12F in 2021 here. They look like nothing happened by summer 2022. Cold and CIDP is never a concern here 

Maybe because of the dry conditions?

[Arecaceus]

48 minutes ago, __nevii said:

I always assumed the washingtonia to be much hardier than CIDP, simply because the former was more commonly planted throughout Houston.

What I'm also gathering is that it seems that the period from the 1990 up to late 2000s (say, 2008 or 2009) seemed to be a "golden age" of sorts for plant lovers.

So do you think Washingtonias are less hardy than CIDPs?

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, __nevii said:

I always assumed the washingtonia to be much hardier than CIDP, simply because the former was more commonly planted throughout Houston.

What I'm also gathering is that it seems that the period from the 1990 up to late 2000s (say, 2008 or 2009) seemed to be a "golden age" of sorts for plant lovers.

 

11 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

So do you think Washingtonias are less hardy than CIDPs?

CIDP is waaaaaaaaaay more hardy than true Washingtonia robusta and even the robusta mutts. CIDP was one of the few palms in Houston that widely survived all of the freezes of the 1980s. 

Large CIDP (50+ years old) in Houston were once a common sight in the 2000s before the disease rolled in. You can still find them occasionally. Galveston has/had some that were probably ~100 years old or more (Galveston was founded before Houston), but the disease seems to be running through the island as well. 

And yes 1997-2009 was exceptionall warm. No hard freezes (<28F) in central Houston and nothing below 30F at the coast. It was the era of big mango trees, royals, foxtails, etc. It was practically an illusion of zone 10. 

Cold is never ever a true concern for a healthy CIDP anywhere in the Houston Area...I don't know how many times I have to repeat it 😛

Edited December 27, 2022 by Xenon

[__nevii]

59 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

So do you think Washingtonias are less hardy than CIDPs?

In my post, I was just expressing my thoughts based on what I've read so far throughout these forums. And as seen, @Xenon did, in fact, confirm the greater hardiness of CIDP compared to washingtonias of the 'robusta' and 'filibusta' varieties.

That usefulness would certainly apply for your 8b/9a location, assuming that it was what you were asking about.

Edited December 27, 2022 by __nevii

[__nevii]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

CIDP is waaaaaaaaaay more hardy than true Washingtonia robusta and even the robusta mutts. CIDP was one of the few palms in Houston that widely survived all of the freezes of the 1980s. 

Large CIDP (50+ years old) in Houston were once a common sight in the 2000s before the disease rolled in. You can still find them occasionally. Galveston has/had some that were probably ~100 years old or more (Galveston was founded before Houston), but the disease seems to be running through the island as well. 

Cold is never ever a true concern for a healthy CIDP anywhere in the Houston Area...I don't know how many times I have to repeat it 😛

Indeed. Certain date palms in general are a lot hardier than I gave them credit for: I think my old neighborhood near Sugar Land still has quite some surviving sylvestris and even some dactylifera present, in addition to the CIDP.  All seem to look okay so far, whereas the washies are quite burned.

Would the disease in question happen to be TPPD? I'm not too versed on that diseases, but last I read, there was some spread into the Florida Peninsula. It reminds me of another recent disease that finally made it into Texas recently from the SE Atlantic coast, though not palm related: the 'laurel wilt' affecting red bays, and other laurels.

 

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

And yes 1997-2009 was exceptionall warm. No hard freezes (<28F) in central Houston and nothing below 30F at the coast. It was the era of big mango trees, royals, foxtails, etc. It was practically an illusion of zone 10. 

Another thing about that period I notice, particularly between 2001 through 2008,  is the more reliable and frequent (if not more ample) rainfall through the summer, the dry spells not being near as marked/problematic as earlier this year 2022 (and especially 2011). I think the summer rainfall in the 2000s decade was enough to even reflect in 100th meridian/dry-line maps that I once viewed.

Just from looking at Sugar Land, for both summer rain and wintry minimums, it is almost as if a switch flipped after Hurricane Ike.

Edited December 27, 2022 by __nevii

[Xenon]

4 minutes ago, __nevii said:

Would the disease in question happen to be TPPD? I'm not too versed on that diseases, but last I read, there was some spread into the Florida Peninsula. It reminds me of another recent disease that finally made it into Texas recently from the SE Atlantic coast, though not palm related: the 'laurel wilt' affecting red bays, and other laurels.

Yes, TPPD or lethal bronzing whatever you want to call it. 

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP163

[Arecaceus]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

 

CIDP is waaaaaaaaaay more hardy than true Washingtonia robusta and even the robusta mutts. CIDP was one of the few palms in Houston that widely survived all of the freezes of the 1980s. 

Large CIDP (50+ years old) in Houston were once a common sight in the 2000s before the disease rolled in. You can still find them occasionally. Galveston has/had some that were probably ~100 years old or more (Galveston was founded before Houston), but the disease seems to be running through the island as well. 

And yes 1997-2009 was exceptionall warm. No hard freezes (<28F) in central Houston and nothing below 30F at the coast. It was the era of big mango trees, royals, foxtails, etc. It was practically an illusion of zone 10. 

Cold is never ever a true concern for a healthy CIDP anywhere in the Houston Area...I don't know how many times I have to repeat it 😛

Very interesting information. I'm taking this into account but I still think the data you've collected is bound to your location. One question I still have is about the pureness of your CIDP, as I've read everywhere that CIDPs in the US are very hybradised. And thank you for this insight. Nothing beats first hand experience.

[Arecaceus]

1 hour ago, __nevii said:

In my post, I was just expressing my thoughts based on what I've read so far throughout these forums. And as seen, @Xenon did, in fact, confirm the greater hardiness of CIDP compared to washingtonias of the 'robusta' and 'filibusta' varieties.

That usefulness would certainly apply for your 8b/9a location, assuming that it was what you were asking about.

Yes this was indeed why I was asking. I'm experimenting with CIDP and I already did twice and I lost both, but due to unfortunate circumstances. So no real test yet. But even in pots they've proven to be pretty hardy for me. And I'm not in a desert climate nor at a low latitude. Mine have survived some hard freezes in pots unprotected several times over the years. Yet people in similar climates claim that they lose them ever so easily. But I'm just trying because I believe they are a borderline zone push here and I believe they could survive long term if they get to establish before a cold blast hits. Unfortunately with the third time trying this year I planted a small CIDP grown from seed (in my experience always more adapted to your local climate) and now we got that cold blast. To my surprise it still looks pretty good. It was one of the few plants I protected with 3 layers of fleece and some dry palm fronds. But i'll wait until spring. The weather is much milder now but not warm enough imo to really tell if there are long term damages.

[Xenon]

57 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Very interesting information. I'm taking this into account but I still think the data you've collected is bound to your location. One question I still have is about the pureness of your CIDP, as I've read everywhere that CIDPs in the US are very hybradised. And thank you for this insight. Nothing beats first hand experience.

Hybridization makes them less hardy if anything, CIDP is the most cold hardy date palm for Texas (which is nothing like continental Europe). Most CIDP here look pretty much like the CIDP in Hollywood movies, except never quite as pretty in our humid climate. 

I've seen several CIDP in College Station, TX that survived 3-5*F in 2021. 

[Keys6505]

9 hours ago, Xenon said:

Nice palms! The decora probably would've been ok uncovered. Hope stuff recovers quickly. 

After watching all the Decora drop dead on 45 and at the firehouse on 3 after the last freeze I panicked.  Did you get any of these when Joe from TCHP came to Houston with a car full and was dumping them for like $8 ea?  I still have a few backups in pots, they're only like 2-3' tall, it's unreal how they take off once out in the ground.

[Arecaceus]

48 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Hybridization makes them less hardy if anything, CIDP is the most cold hardy date palm for Texas (which is nothing like continental Europe). Most CIDP here look pretty much like the CIDP in Hollywood movies, except never quite as pretty in our humid climate. 

I've seen several CIDP in College Station, TX that survived 3-5*F in 2021. 

Well it makes sense since the true Canary is one of the hardiest Phoenix. But I still think there must be some hardy strains of Phoenix reclinata out there. In their natural habitat they grow up to very high elevations. Yes all the Texas climates are different from any European climate. My climate is an oceanic climate not a continental climate with some other geographic benefits. My weather is similar to the UK but a bit colder (but also a bit drier) in winter and hotter and drier in summer. My observation in Western Europe is that CIDP seem to do well long term where temperatures don't go below -4/-5°C in a normal winter. And where frost is only occasional and also not prolonged. And there seems to be a cutting edge for winter lows and summer highs. They seem to do well in colder winters, if the rest of the year has enough heat and dry periods and in warmer winters even if summers are cool and wet. But it's still interesting to see how they can rebound in Texas because even if Texas is in a lower latitude and temperatures might be higher in general. The freezes in cold blasts are often much more brutal and especially colder than in Western Europe for example. It boogles my mind that temperatures this low get measured down to the gulf of Mexico. So the information is still very helpful.

[Keys6505]

7 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

But I still think there must be some hardy strains of Phoenix reclinata out there

I believe there is a Reclinata that survived the 21 freeze at the Houston Zoo.  I'll try to find a pic.

[Xenon]

11 minutes ago, Keys6505 said:

After watching all the Decora drop dead on 45 and at the firehouse on 3 after the last freeze I panicked.  Did you get any of these when Joe from TCHP came to Houston with a car full and was dumping them for like $8 ea?  I still have a few backups in pots, they're only like 2-3' tall, it's unreal how they take off once out in the ground.

No I don't have one. There's at least one on I-45 that is/was alive. I think it was the ice and duration that did them in. Most survived and fully recovered from 17-18F in 2018. Damage so far looks nowhere near 2021 despite the absolute low not being far off. 

[Arecaceus]

4 minutes ago, Keys6505 said:

I believe there is a Reclinata that survived the 21 freeze at the Houston Zoo.  I'll try to find a pic.

That would almost be hilarious! 😁

[Sabal_Louisiana]

We have many CIDP around here that survived the freezes of 2018 and 2021 but this year, especially, some have inexplicably been dying off, months after cold recovery.  The canaries all either look pretty good or dying. The latter appear to be in the minority and localized, leading me to believe some kind of disease is decimating them. Fusarium wilt? I never used to see this in years past, even after bad freezes occurred. 

I also saw this happen with a couple of established filiferas - they came through fine in 2018 and 2021 but this summer, starting browning and within a few months completely died.

Also, we don't have windmills around like we used to,  but I've noticed quite a few of the older ones brown and dead - I thought they were impervious.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Sabal_Louisiana

[Meangreen94z]

13 hours ago, Hortulanus said:

Oh yeah ... damage can take a while to show up... It's surprising that the CIDP had the fastest rebound. Everbody is saying that they take the longest and up to 2 years. 🧐

CIDP came back from  0-3°F(-17.8° to - 16.3°C) in Central and North Texas in 2021. Easily a 90%+ recovery rate. With Texas heat and sunlight they looked normal by the fall(6 months later). 
 

 

[Meangreen94z]

5 hours ago, Keys6505 said:

After watching all the Decora drop dead on 45 and at the firehouse on 3 after the last freeze I panicked.  Did you get any of these when Joe from TCHP came to Houston with a car full and was dumping them for like $8 ea?  I still have a few backups in pots, they're only like 2-3' tall, it's unreal how they take off once out in the ground.

That’s funny, I planted one in my parents yard in Pearland. He actually threw it in on a deal. They dropped to 18°F, but it was one of 2 palms I didn’t protect there. The Phoenix sylvestris started to show wilt on its fronds by Sunday but the decora still looked good. Everyone else can complain but I miss NTCHP.

[Meangreen94z]

5 hours ago, Keys6505 said:

I believe there is a Reclinata that survived the 21 freeze at the Houston Zoo.  I'll try to find a pic.

There was one by the edge of the pool in my parents retirement community. The half next to the water stayed green even after the freeze.

[Arecaceus]

1 hour ago, Meangreen94z said:

CIDP came back from  0-3°F(-17.8° to - 16.3°C) in Central and North Texas in 2021. Easily a 90%+ recovery rate. With Texas heat and sunlight they looked normal by the fall(6 months later). 
 

 

That's incredible! But now I remember that I've always wondered - There are some very old CIDPs (if they haven't been killed by the palm weavel) in Italy, where temperatures dropped down under -20°C in I believe the 1980s.

[UK_Palms]

4 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

CIDP came back from  0-3°F(-17.8° to - 16.3°C) in Central and North Texas in 2021. Easily a 90%+ recovery rate. With Texas heat and sunlight they looked normal by the fall(6 months later). 

I remember seeing some photos of CIDP that came back in northern TX whereas Trachycarpus right next to them were killed stone dead. The girth of the trunk must be a massive factor for CIDP survival in severe cold. I don’t think those ones had lost their trunk boots yet either. The same with the Alamogordo ones that survived like -20C at least. I wonder if they had totally lost their trunk boots, whether bud hardiness would be compromised somewhat? Most likely, which is why I have heard of big mature CIDP getting killed at lower temps maybe. The trunk boots must provide a few degrees of additional protection to the internal bud through insulation.

[Meangreen94z]

5 hours ago, Hortulanus said:

That's incredible! But now I remember that I've always wondered - There are some very old CIDPs (if they haven't been killed by the palm weavel) in Italy, where temperatures dropped down under -20°C in I believe the 1980s.

Yes, they are incredibly hardy given their origin. As UK Palms mentioned there were specimen that came back from a more brief -11°F( -23.8°C) in New Mexico. 

 

[UK_Palms]

2 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

Yes, they are incredibly hardy given their origin. As UK Palms mentioned there were specimen that came back from a more brief -11°F( -23.8°C) in New Mexico. 

Looking around on street view they also have big Robusta’s in Alamogordo too, or at least Robusta dominant hybrids. They would have had to survive temps below -20C as well, which seems ridiculous. Unless it never actually got that cold there? No doubt we are talking about dry desert-like cold, which is very different to the cold in more humid climates with high precipitation totals as you would get in Texas, Carolina’s, UK etc.

[Arecaceus]

8 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

I remember seeing some photos of CIDP that came back in northern TX whereas Trachycarpus right next to them were killed stone dead. The girth of the trunk must be a massive factor for CIDP survival in severe cold. I don’t think those ones had lost their trunk boots yet either. The same with the Alamogordo ones that survived like -20C at least. I wonder if they had totally lost their trunk boots, whether bud hardiness would be compromised somewhat? Most likely, which is why I have heard of big mature CIDP getting killed at lower temps maybe. The trunk boots must provide a few degrees of additional protection to the internal bud through insulation.

And I always look at them when they're mature and think "No way they can't resist cold that good with such a fat trunk". 😂

[Arecaceus]

5 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Looking around on street view they also have big Robusta’s in Alamogordo too, or at least Robusta dominant hybrids. They would have had to survive temps below -20C as well, which seems ridiculous. Unless it never actually got that cold there? No doubt we are talking about dry desert-like cold, which is very different to the cold in more humid climates with high precipitation totals as you would get in Texas, Carolina’s, UK etc.

Robustas might be hardier the older and taller they are and if they're hybrids. Who knows maybe they can grow back from this. And if the cold snap is not followed by cool rainy temperatures. Often they get a big rebound into sometimes even rather hot temperatures.

[Meangreen94z]

5 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Looking around on street view they also have big Robusta’s in Alamogordo too, or at least Robusta dominant hybrids. They would have had to survive temps below -20C as well, which seems ridiculous. Unless it never actually got that cold there? No doubt we are talking about dry desert-like cold, which is very different to the cold in more humid climates with high precipitation totals as you would get in Texas, Carolina’s, UK etc.

New Mexico is pretty much all desert, comparable to far West Texas but colder and more mountainous. I’m sure that event was dry and brief.