Majesty palm problem

[Walt]

Last week four lower fronds on subject majesty palm broke at or near the petiole base and/or the boot attachment to the trunk tore away; the fronds wound up lying  on the ground, as shown in below photo.

Then, yesterday, just three days later, seven more fronds broke at the petiole base and are hanging down!

Now the palm only has three healthy fronds left and three healthy spears.

Here's an overall view of the majesty palm:

Here's a close up view of the broken frond petioles. Note the fresh bare trunk area where I removed the four broken fronds last week:

I'm at a loss to know what the problem is, as this has never happened with any other species of palms I'm growing (more than 100). I can all but rule out fertilization (lack of) as a problem as I feed my palms with palm special fertilizer and I have many more trunked majesty palms that do not have this problem.

The newest fronds and the three spears appear to be normal and healthy, so this would indicate to me it's not a meristem (growth bud) problem.

Over the years, on occassion, I've had maybe 2-3 of the bottomost fronds collapse like this, during new growth, but never, ever this many broken fronds.

I'm not so concerned with losing this palm as understanding what the problem is and how I might be able to prevent it in the future with other palms. I grew this majesty from a one gallon size.

This particular majesty palm was cold damaged the last two winters, so possibly it's some kind of delayed effect, I don't know.

I'm open to anyone's opinions and hunches concerning this problem. Has anyone experienced this with their majesty palms or any species of palm, for that matter?

[redant]

I have grown many majesty palms, never seen this. I certainly would give it a spray of copper. Almost looks like LY other then the lack of yellowing.

[ghar41]

Hmmm.  Sorry to hear that your Majesty is collapsing on you.

I'm not sure where you are located....but for me Ravenea rivularus is a high maintenance plant.  I'm probably singing to the chorus...and it sounds like you are already keenly aware...of this palms need for copious amounts of water and fertilizer.  Rivularus literally meaning "river," it can and sometime does, grow in water levels rising up the trunk.  

I have experimented with one in the ground this summer by throwing "deadly" amounts of palm fertilzer around its drip line and feeder roots.  Not only is the plant still alive but the fronds are markedly less yellow than this time last year.

Not sure if any of this helps but my experience has been.....water, water, feed, feed....................

Have you tried glauca?...or madagascarensis?

[MattyB]

Interesting.  I have a Kentia (H. forst.) that's doing the same thing.  I can't figure it out either.

[ruskinPalms]

That palm looks like it does get plenty of water. I has moss growing on the trunk. Also, is the black stuff near the petiole bases on your other healthy majesties? I had a coconut that got blackish stuff that pretty much did it in. I think it was fungal athough it did not respond to Daconil. I didn't try a copper fungicide or H2O2 though. Also, the bottom fronds on my coco were OK, just stunted fronds on the top. May not be the same problem as yours, or else it may be the same type of pathogen, but just infected in a different area of the palm.

Pics of my black stuff:

[iwan]

Delayed freeze damage?  I have seen exactly that within 2-4 weeks of hitting 23F (without frost) on potted rivularis.  Little apparent damage to the foliage prior to buckling and in fact the fronds would remain green for a long time afterwards, so some nutrients were still flowing.

[GREENHAND]

Mine did the same thing after a strong cold front hit, i  mean exactly the same thing, then it slowly declined then DEATH.

[iwan]

(GREENHAND @ Sep. 18 2007,12:26)

QUOTE

then it slowly declined then DEATH.

I forgot to add this part.

[Walt]

(ruskinPalms @ Sep. 18 2007,13:10)

QUOTE

That palm looks like it does get plenty of water. I has moss growing on the trunk. Also, is the black stuff near the petiole bases on your other healthy majesties? I had a coconut that got blackish stuff that pretty much did it in. I think it was fungal athough it did not respond to Daconil. I didn't try a copper fungicide or H2O2 though. Also, the bottom fronds on my coco were OK, just stunted fronds on the top. May not be the same problem as yours, or else it may be the same type of pathogen, but just infected in a different area of the palm.

Pics of my black stuff:

No, your coconut appears to be suffering from bacterial bud rot (from freeze). I have a golden malayan that did the same thing two years ago (from the February 14, 2006 radiational freeze).

My majesty palm only got some cosmetic leaf damage on some of the northern exposed leaves, so it never got too cold damaged.

Further, and more importantly, all my new fronds this spring and summer were near perfect in size and quality. Also, the three new large spears are in excellent shape, so this is a prime indicator that my majesty didn't suffer cold damage to the bud (bacterial bud rot).

Something has caused the petioles to lose their structural integrity and become much softer, hence partially breaking.

I understand the needs of majesty palms and I feed mine with Lesco 13-3-13- 4.5 (mag) with minors and keep it well watered.

I have another majesty palm (just one year older than this one) that was in a more exposed location the past two winters and it got more leaf damage from frost and it's not suffering from this condition, so I don't know what the problem might be.

The only thing that comes close to this condition is in some of my queen palms. Almost every summer many of the lower most fronds break near the base of the petiole, even though the leaflets are still nice and green. Some petioles bend greatet to a small radius but do not break. Possibly it's some kind of mineral deficiency, a mineral that gives strength and ridgity to the petioles.

I have extremely low pH in my soil. I had it tested at 3.64 pH. Possibly, the particular mineral is not being taken up properly due to the low pH and is out of balance with other minerals, and is exacerbated during the warmer growing months.

[Tyrone]

Have you thought of liming the soil. A bit of Calcium wouln't hurt IMHO. I think Calcium is needed for cellular strength. I could be wrong. Any biochemists out there.

regards

Tyrone

[Walt]

(Tyrone @ Sep. 18 2007,18:18)

QUOTE

Have you thought of liming the soil. A bit of Calcium wouln't hurt IMHO. I think Calcium is needed for cellular strength. I could be wrong. Any biochemists out there.

regards

Tyrone

I took my pH test six years ago. Since that time I've been applying dolimitic lime and wood ash (50% calcium carbonate equivalent) to raise the pH. However, I haven't checked the pH lately. I don't think it's a pH problem as all my other majesty palms, and all my other species are doing fine.

[pq_bob]

I had the same exact problem.  I was in my yard working one day about 5 feet from one of the majesty palms.   Suddenly I heard a loud snap and there was one of the fronds collapsed.  

The thing that seemed to help was to water less frequently to twice a week,  with only a lot of water once a week.   Haven't had this problem since.

Everyone is right that these can be fussy palms.   I think I use double the amount of fertilizer normally used with the other palms.  

-Bob-

[redant]

These guys seem to enjoy acid soil. Mine love all the pine needles. I'd go easy on the lime.

[gsn]

I can't find the post ,but wasn't there something here regarding  a petiole disease on queen palms ,that made the fronds (crown) collapse?

Maybe I am dreaming,but it seemed similar to the problem you are having with your rivularis Walt? I'll keep looking!

If I did dream this up please disregard this post!

[Walt]

(gsn @ Sep. 19 2007,16:40)

QUOTE

I can't find the post ,but wasn't there something here regarding  a petiole disease on queen palms ,that made the fronds (crown) collapse?

Maybe I am dreaming,but it seemed similar to the problem you are having with your rivularis Walt? I'll keep looking!

If I did dream this up please disregard this post!

The new queen palm disease is totally opposite of what is happening to my majesty palm.

The new queen palm disease that hit south and central Florida some years ago causes the queen palm to go completely brown, yet the fronds don't collapse. The palm is erect and looks normal, but it resembles a palm that was freeze dried, or a palm that got totally frost burned, but before the fronds collapsed.

I was told this directly from Dr. Monica Elliott of the University of Florida, IFAS,  Fort Lauderdale Research and Education Center.

[oliver]

?Rhinoceros beetle - look around the base for 1/2" holes in the ground - killed a number of my palms a few years ago before I discovered diazanon.

[Scott]

Walt - is the base of the petiole soft or mushy?

[Walt]

(Scott @ Sep. 19 2007,20:34)

QUOTE

Walt - is the base of the petiole soft or mushy?

Scott: The petioles aren't mushy but they feel softer, like they've lost some ridgidity. This makes me think it may be a mineral deficiency of some kind, or unless it's systemic disease, since almost all the petioles (except the newest three) have broken and collapsed.

Many of my queen palm get broken petioles during the late summer, every year. Sometimes as many as 2-3 bottom fronds just bend and then snap near the petiole base, yet the frond leaves are nice and green. I could understand it if the frond leaves were in the process of dying/senescense, etc., but that is not the case with my queen palms.

Here's a typical snapped petiole on a queen palm of mine. The entire frond (not shown) is perfectly healthy and dark green:

Here's another queen palm of mine that has bent fronds of an acute radius. Sometimes the break.

But back to my majesty palm, this has never happened before and I've had this palm for about six years, growing it from a one gallon size. Plus, I have four other trunked majesty palms and none of them are having this problem, and they all get basically the same cultural practices.

So far, since yesterday, no more fronds have collapsed. It they do I will continue to post photos as this palm dies, if in fact it does.

[Walt]

(redant @ Sep. 18 2007,12:07)

QUOTE

I have grown many majesty palms, never seen this. I certainly would give it a spray of copper. Almost looks like LY other then the lack of yellowing.

As far as I know there's never been a reported case of LY in my area, south central Florida. And yes, there's no yellowing per se of the leaflets.

[Walt]

(ghar41 @ Sep. 18 2007,12:34)

QUOTE

Hmmm.  Sorry to hear that your Majesty is collapsing on you.

I'm not sure where you are located....but for me Ravenea rivularus is a high maintenance plant.  I'm probably singing to the chorus...and it sounds like you are already keenly aware...of this palms need for copious amounts of water and fertilizer.  Rivularus literally meaning "river," it can and sometime does, grow in water levels rising up the trunk.  

I have experimented with one in the ground this summer by throwing "deadly" amounts of palm fertilzer around its drip line and feeder roots.  Not only is the plant still alive but the fronds are markedly less yellow than this time last year.

Not sure if any of this helps but my experience has been.....water, water, feed, feed....................

Have you tried glauca?...or madagascarensis?

Glenn: Yes, I'm totally familar with Ravenea rivularis's requirements. I don't think the problem is any thing I did or didn't do, as all my other majesty palms are growing great, as well as all my other palms.

One thing I do know is that it's not a growth bud problem as the remaining three fronds and four spears are near perfect.

[Davidl]

Gliocladium  ( Pink Rot) ?  I had two palms with that this year. "This fungal disease is a serious problem on Chamaedorea species and areca palms in Florida, and kentias, majesty, queen, date and the native Washingtonia filifera palms in California. The causal agent is not active at temperatures above 85° F, thus it is primarily a winter disease in Florida, while remaining active most of the year in coastal California. Oozing lesions occur on the stems, and leaves turn brown and droop. The fungus produces salmon-pink, powdery fruiting bodies. The disease is easily spread if affected leaves are pulled off the plant prematurely.  Scotts FungoFlo and Mancozeb fungicides provide good control." I used mancozeb and it worked.

[Walt]

(iwan @ Sep. 18 2007,15:22)

QUOTE

Delayed freeze damage?  I have seen exactly that within 2-4 weeks of hitting 23F (without frost) on potted rivularis.  Little apparent damage to the foliage prior to buckling and in fact the fronds would remain green for a long time afterwards, so some nutrients were still flowing.

I don't think it's delayed freeze damage as all my other majesty palms are doing fine. In fact, my largest majesty palm is located in a more exposed area and it got more leaf damage from frost than this one. Besides, my lowest low last winter was 29F degrees (only time it dropped below 32 all winter).

Still, even within the same species there are genetic variations, and I know from first-hand experience that many palms of the same species react differently to freezes.

Many years ago I had two foxtail palms, each about 3-4 feet tall, in pots and got caught short on an unexpected radiational freeze that dropped into the high 20sF. One palm was basically fried (all leaves brownish-black) and the other one untouched! Both palms were side by side in the open. The damaged palm died several months later. The one that survived has been in the ground many years now.

[Walt]

(Tyrone @ Sep. 18 2007,18:18)

QUOTE

Have you thought of liming the soil. A bit of Calcium wouln't hurt IMHO. I think Calcium is needed for cellular strength. I could be wrong. Any biochemists out there.

regards

Tyrone

Tyrone: I have been, little by little, adding some dolimitic lime and some wood ash around all of my palms, since my soil pH is so low. I'm about middle way on the Florida pennisula (i.e., halfway from the Gulf of Mexico and halfway from the Atlantic Ocean). Nearer the coasts the soil is much more akaline due to sea shells and limestone.

And I think you are correct, Calcium is essential to the wall structure of plant cell and provides for normal transport and retention of other elements as well as strength in the plant.

[Walt]

(pq_bob @ Sep. 19 2007,01:02)

QUOTE

I had the same exact problem.  I was in my yard working one day about 5 feet from one of the majesty palms.   Suddenly I heard a loud snap and there was one of the fronds collapsed.  

The thing that seemed to help was to water less frequently to twice a week,  with only a lot of water once a week.   Haven't had this problem since.

Everyone is right that these can be fussy palms.   I think I use double the amount of fertilizer normally used with the other palms.  

-Bob-

I think majesty palms are fairly heavy feeders and I give them, based on overall size, of course, extra fertilizer. Normally I might fertilize my regular palms four times a year, but I fertilize my majesty palms six times or more a year.

[Walt]

(Davidl @ Sep. 19 2007,21:14)

QUOTE

Gliocladium  ( Pink Rot) ?  I had two palms with that this year. "This fungal disease is a serious problem on Chamaedorea species and areca palms in Florida, and kentias, majesty, queen, date and the native Washingtonia filifera palms in California. The causal agent is not active at temperatures above 85° F, thus it is primarily a winter disease in Florida, while remaining active most of the year in coastal California. Oozing lesions occur on the stems, and leaves turn brown and droop. The fungus produces salmon-pink, powdery fruiting bodies. The disease is easily spread if affected leaves are pulled off the plant prematurely.  Scotts FungoFlo and Mancozeb fungicides provide good control." I used mancozeb and it worked.

David: No, my majesty palm doesn't have pink rot symptoms. No oozing leasions and no dying fronds. The collapse even when green.

BTW, where did you buy your Scott's FungoFlo, I'd like to get some.

[SunnyFl]

Walt, I think it's a fungus.  What's happening to your majesty is exactly what happened to my R. glauca.  It was doing beautifully, it had started trunking, then mysteriously, the petioles started breaking and the canopy just collapsed.   Finally, a spear pulled and the crown flopped over.

When I described the damage on the board, I was told it was definitely a fungus - probably gliocladium blight.  Daconil didn't help.  Maybe something stronger, like liquid copper?  Don't know.

Have you taken that photo to your county extension agent?  They might know of other palms nearby experiencing similar problems and be able to identify what it is.

Good luck with your majesty - it always hurts to lose a palm, but especially a beauty that you've raised from a small size.

[Walt]

(SunnyFl @ Sep. 19 2007,21:33)

QUOTE

Walt, I think it's a fungus.  What's happening to your majesty is exactly what happened to my R. glauca.  It was doing beautifully, it had started trunking, then mysteriously, the petioles started breaking and the canopy just collapsed.   Finally, a spear pulled and the crown flopped over.

When I described the damage on the board, I was told it was definitely a fungus - probably gliocladium blight.  Daconil didn't help.  Maybe something stronger, like liquid copper?  Don't know.

Have you taken that photo to your county extension agent?  They might know of other palms nearby experiencing similar problems and be able to identify what it is.

Good luck with your majesty - it always hurts to lose a palm, but especially a beauty that you've raised from a small size.

SunnyFl.: My county extension office doesn't know. In fact, they depend on me for palm problems as I'm a master gardener there!

I will admit I have much to learn. Yes, I know the basic stuff, stuff put out by the U of F, but it still leaves much to be desired.

I submitted photos of other palm problems I have via the director of the extension office to send to U of F, but they told me they catered mainly to commercial agricultural interests.

I may spray my majesty tomorrow with several kinds of fungicide. I guess it can't hurt. What I really want to get is a broad spectrum systemic root drench fungicide, so I know the entire palm is taking it up. Thus far I can't find it. There's on called Subdue but I can't find it anywhere. There's another one called Cleary's. I don't know what the active ingredients are but I do know they are a systemic type.

[gsn]

(Walt @ Sep. 19 2007,19:33)

QUOTE

(gsn @ Sep. 19 2007,16:40)

QUOTE

I can't find the post ,but wasn't there something here regarding  a petiole disease on queen palms ,that made the fronds (crown) collapse?

Maybe I am dreaming,but it seemed similar to the problem you are having with your rivularis Walt? I'll keep looking!

If I did dream this up please disregard this post!

The new queen palm disease is totally opposite of what is happening to my majesty palm.

The new queen palm disease that hit south and central Florida some years ago causes the queen palm to go completely brown, yet the fronds don't collapse. The palm is erect and looks normal, but it resembles a palm that was freeze dried, or a palm that got totally frost burned, but before the fronds collapsed.

I was told this directly from Dr. Monica Elliott of the University of Florida, IFAS,  Fort Lauderdale Research and Education Center.

Walt,

I was dreaming ,obviously! As you are correct, what I was referring to is EXACTLY the opposite of your problem!

I think I might have had that confused with rachis petiole blight ,but that doesn't fit the symptoms you describe and  your photos  show, either!

Good luck diagnosing this problem.

If you find out anything be sure to let us know!

[Walt]

(gsn @ Sep. 19 2007,22:02)

QUOTE

(Walt @ Sep. 19 2007,19:33)

QUOTE

(gsn @ Sep. 19 2007,16:40)

QUOTE

I can't find the post ,but wasn't there something here regarding  a petiole disease on queen palms ,that made the fronds (crown) collapse?

Maybe I am dreaming,but it seemed similar to the problem you are having with your rivularis Walt? I'll keep looking!

If I did dream this up please disregard this post!

The new queen palm disease is totally opposite of what is happening to my majesty palm.

The new queen palm disease that hit south and central Florida some years ago causes the queen palm to go completely brown, yet the fronds don't collapse. The palm is erect and looks normal, but it resembles a palm that was freeze dried, or a palm that got totally frost burned, but before the fronds collapsed.

I was told this directly from Dr. Monica Elliott of the University of Florida, IFAS,  Fort Lauderdale Research and Education Center.

Walt,

I was dreaming ,obviously! As you are correct, what I was referring to is EXACTLY the opposite of your problem!

I think I might have had that confused with rachis petiole blight ,but that doesn't fit the symptoms you describe and  your photos  show, either!

Good luck diagnosing this problem.

If you find out anything be sure to let us know!

Scott: Yes, it's not petiole blight. I have a Livistona chinensis with petiole/rachis blight. Usually one half of the leaf(s) turns brown and the petiole has discoloring along the axis. I've been treating it with Hi-Yield fungicide and it seems to be helping.

If you cut a petiole in to expose its cross section you can clearly see the discoloration.

[Davidl]

Walt Mine never died either they just fell off but it was a crownshaft palm and I was able to see the ozz under the frond that fell off. I also cut more off myself because it was under more fronds. I maybe wrong in what I thought it was but I got rid of it with moncozeb. Good luck in getting rid of it.

[Walt]

I put my sick majesty palm out of its misery today. It only had one remaining frond left  and four unopened ones (spears).

I noticed a large soft, mushy spot near the top of the trunk. I pushed the palm top back and forth and watched the soft area buckle. I then just snapped the palm top off. Sure enough the cross section of the trunk was rotten.

Since my last update to this post I had contacted Dr. Monica Elliott of the University of Florida's Ft. Lauderdale Research and Education center. I sent her many photos, along with the history of my palm.

Monica replied that a mysterious suspected disease is killing only Ravenea rivularis palms in the Ft. Myers, Florida area and wanted me to send her many frond bases so she could perform a laboratory analysis on them. I sent them to her just today.

The thing about my majesty palm is the quickness that it went down hill. From a 14 frond crown, it went down to just one frond in less than two weeks, and it showed no visual signs of disease. I applied three different types of fungicide but obviously too late and/or the wrong fungicide.

I will update this post again if I get some conclusive answers from Dr. Elliott.

Here's photo of trunk stump:

Here's photo of upper trunk cross section: