Can I get an I.D. on this Sabal in Paris?

[UK_Palms]

I initially thought it could be Bermudana, but then I also thought Mexicana too. A lot of people seem to think it is Palmetto, although I am less inclined to think that. Palmetto's are very slow growing and need a lot of subtropical heat/humidity to grow properly, which Paris doesn't really get. I still think it is Bermudana or maybe Mexicana, but then again maybe it is just a regular Palmetto. I don't think it's a hybridised Sabal, but maybe it is? The folk in the States are going to be more clued up on identifying Sabals as opposed to us guys in Europe.

I believe the I.D. tag on it may say Sabal Palmetto, although this is not confirmed. We need someone to double check the name tag, although I also wouldn't really trust an I.D. tag for a Sabal in Paris of all places. They are not common at all in Europe, especially northern Europe, and Paris is not exactly known for its palms or exotics. It could quite easily be incorrectly named as I have seen palms incorrectly named in London at places like Kew Gardens and Chelsea Physic Garden even. I believe someone recently did a post on here about not trusting name tags.

I have attached multiple pictures of it from recent years to help with the identification process. Thanks.

[Dig The Soil]

Yes, Sabal.

[UK_Palms]

24 minutes ago, Dig The Soil said:

Yes, Sabal.

 

Oh really, thanks! 

[Xenon]

Looks like a standard slightly stretched out Sabal palmetto to me. Doesn't look robust enough to be bermudana or mexicana imo. Curious why you imply mexicana might grow better in cooler conditions? Its native range is from the coastal lowlands of TX/MX border deep into tropical Central America (extremely hot and humid). 

[UK_Palms]

5 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Looks like a standard slightly stretched out Sabal palmetto to me. Doesn't look robust enough to be bermudana or mexicana imo. Curious why you imply mexicana might grow better in cooler conditions? Its native range is from the coastal lowlands of TX/MX border deep into tropical Central America (extremely hot and humid). 

It's more that Palmetto is one of the slowest growing Sabal's from my understanding, so it requires quite a bit of heat/humidity and tropical conditions for most of the year to really grow well. I thought Mexicana is a bit faster growing, so is less dependent on tropical conditions to grow well and put on size. Bermudana certainly doesn't need much heat to grow well and should be able to attain a decent size, relatively quickly in a cooler climate. I didn't think this is really possible with Palmetto, but I may be wrong. That is why I assumed it was probably Bermudana or Mexicana, on the basis that it grows quicker than Palmetto with less heat requirements for sustained growth.

[SeanK]

Even within palmetto, there's a lot of variability. Maybe someone knows based on inflorescence 

[Bigfish]

Looks like palmetto to me.  I don’t think it’s bermudana.  Seed size would be helpful.

 

[tim_brissy_13]

I can’t make a positive species ID, but for reference, S palmetto is faster than S mexicana in my cool climate. 

[Jubaea_James760]

2 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I can’t make a positive species ID, but for reference, S palmetto is faster than S mexicana in my cool climate. 

I to share the same experience of palmetto growing faster than mexicana for me here in California ( High Desert climate). Even in pots palmetto is faster. Don't get me wrong, palmetto is still at turtle pace but mexicana is a complete slug for me. Things could change & I sure hope they do pick up speed.

[Jubaea_James760]

Palmetto for the guess.

[psy460]

+1 for palmetto 

[NWpalms@206]

looks like palmetto, mine grows pretty quickly

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by NWpalms@206

[sonoranfans]

without inflorescences and fruit/seed size, its near impossible to distinguish between the sabals you mentioned.  You should read scott zonas sabal monograph:https://scholarship.claremont.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1462&context=aliso

 among the three, if the fruit are 13-17mm it would be bermudana, 9-13mm is palmetto and >19 mm is mexicana.  Other measurements that differentiate may need a leaf crossection and a microscope or a flavonoid chemistry panel.  The detail required here to differentiate is obviousw in the length of the monograph and the various measurements used.  We can only see the more crude ones in a picture.  Like inflorescence length, orders of branching and fruit seed/size.  Only the fruit/seed can be used to differentiate bermudana from palmetto.