Pritchardia leaning crown...what's the diagnosis

[Tracy]

A parting site at the Kona Airport.   I noticed the unusual curvature of the leaves first then as I got closer I could see it has a leaning crown.  Reminded me of the common Howea forsteriana leaning crown syndrome.   In that I have not seen this occur with Pritchardia before,  I thought it worth asking if this is often seen here and what the cause is?

Adjacent one looks fine, showing the underside with fruit of the healthy specimen.  

A side note,  I didn't take photos of the entryway of a resort north of Kona that we drove in to visit the beach.  It was pretty sad to see the drive lined with Washingtonia robusta and coconuts at the terminus ends of the long road entrance.  Why an invasive when they could have used so many different Pritchardia instead.  On the coconuts,  I will parrot what Jeff Marcus commented when showing his Beccariophoenix alfredii, madagascarensis, and fenestralis, they give the look while eliminating the need to continually neuter the plants to avoid dropping coconut on human syndrome.    Ahhh but that requires thinking out of the 📦. 

[mnorell]

This happened to my Pritchardia pacifica in the Florida Keys last year, I first suspected that my gardener had one of his guys use herbicide...against my express wishes (I am very much a no-pesticide, no-herbicide guy). My arborist looked at it and wasn't sure but thought I might be correct. I asked the gardener about it and he swore up and down and sideways that this was not the case. Then someone saw it and mentioned that it was most likely a boron deficiency, that this was not uncommon on the limestone of the Keys (due to lockup of nutrient availability in high-pH substrates). I think at that point I looked it up in Broschat (or perhaps online) and saw a photo and description to that effect. I put a bunch of micros (including boron) on it and it did seem to be getting better. Unfortunately it was right when we sold the house so I have no idea what has happened subsequently. At the same time I had a beautiful old Leucothrinax morrissii show the same symptoms, but it was not as resilient, and carked it. I know back in the day Pauleen used to say that she solved her leaning Howeas just by flooding the root-zones with water, and who knows, I think it was never pinned down officially as to the cause (but it has been many years since all that and I didn't keep track of that "conversation," so perhaps the causative agent has been found with Howea). Is that still a problem along the California coast? And there are some other things going on on the Big Island, such as that dreadful banana moth, I'm not sure if it may cause symptoms such as this?

[Neil C]

Seems strange a deficiency could be so localised when the one a few feet behind looks fine?

[mnorell]

I had two Pritchardia thurstonii right next to my affected P. pacifica, and they looked great, no symptoms whatsoever. I know it seems odd, but I think sometimes some other plants may be grabbing the nutrients, or some other unrecognizable imbalance exists for one plant vs. another...we can't see their root-systems, so of course it's all a little bit of a guessing-game what's happening down there in the substrate, with the mycorrhizal network, etc. In terms of nutrient absorption and pH, I would assume the ubiquitous lava substrate on the Big Island would have a more acid reaction (perhaps I am off-base with this assumption) so I have always assumed that micronutrient absorption wouldn't be such a problem in lava-based soils. And of course this could also be a completely unrelated malady with the palm in question...it would be great if someone local there could comment, if this is something observed there with this species.

And Tracy, as regards your comments on the presence of Washingtonias, coconuts and why nobody is replacing them with Beccariophoenix in Hawai'i...I had a Panama Tall coconut in the Keys that grew from 7 gallon to well over 20' overall height in 2-1/2 years. And (probably) Green Malays that were small sprouted nuts in the ground after Hurricane Irma, that gained 20' or more overall with five or six feet of trunk in five years' time. Beccariophoenix...well...not gonna happen. The challenge would be to get nurserymen to sit on these things until they are large enough to make a coconut-like statement and be up and out of people's way as they walk past them, while still staying in business. The nursery/landscape business is all about speed, for obvious economic reasons, and it's why the nurseries and big box stores in South Florida aren't growing/selling lignum vitaes, Pseudophoenix and Copernicia; and why the beautiful but slow native Coccothrinax argentata is passed over for the far faster C. barbadensis (usually sold as C. alta in the trade); and why in California they're not selling Syagrus coronata or S. sancona instead of speed-demon queen palms. Unfortunate, but the grim reality of it all.

[mike in kurtistown]

Speaking from my former sugar cane lot on the rainy windward side of the Big Island, my clayey volcanic soil is pretty acid and, yes, I have had many instances of boron deficiency over the 10-14 years I have been growing palms here. Other local palmers in residential districts have also.  I use nutricote and a pinch of boron crystals in those cases. Most recover after a while, even some that don't get treated. In my case (former sugar cane land), I hypothesize that the sugar cane used up many of the desired nutrients during the plantation era. 

[Tracy]

14 hours ago, mnorell said:

I had two Pritchardia thurstonii right next to my affected P. pacifica, and they looked great, no symptoms whatsoever. I know it seems odd, but I think sometimes some other plants may be grabbing the nutrients, or some other unrecognizable imbalance exists for one plant vs. another...we can't see their root-systems, so of course it's all a little bit of a guessing-game what's happening down there in the substrate, with the mycorrhizal network, etc. In terms of nutrient absorption and pH, I would assume the ubiquitous lava substrate on the Big Island would have a more acid reaction (perhaps I am off-base with this assumption) so I have always assumed that micronutrient absorption wouldn't be such a problem in lava-based soils. And of course this could also be a completely unrelated malady with the palm in question...it would be great if someone local there could comment, if this is something observed there with this species.

And Tracy, as regards your comments on the presence of Washingtonias, coconuts and why nobody is replacing them with Beccariophoenix in Hawai'i...I had a Panama Tall coconut in the Keys that grew from 7 gallon to well over 20' overall height in 2-1/2 years. And (probably) Green Malays that were small sprouted nuts in the ground after Hurricane Irma, that gained 20' or more overall with five or six feet of trunk in five years' time. Beccariophoenix...well...not gonna happen. The challenge would be to get nurserymen to sit on these things until they are large enough to make a coconut-like statement and be up and out of people's way as they walk past them, while still staying in business. The nursery/landscape business is all about speed, for obvious economic reasons, and it's why the nurseries and big box stores in South Florida aren't growing/selling lignum vitaes, Pseudophoenix and Copernicia; and why the beautiful but slow native Coccothrinax argentata is passed over for the far faster C. barbadensis (usually sold as C. alta in the trade); and why in California they're not selling Syagrus coronata or S. sancona instead of speed-demon queen palms. Unfortunate, but the grim reality of it all.

The specific location i saw this at was a long entrance with no walkways through a lava field off the highway.  The actual resort began after the line of Washingtonia.   So Pritchardia would have been an option even if shorter for a period as without a walkway no one would be walking into them or Beccariophoenix at the entryway monument.  Regarding nursery men having sufficient patience, the suggestion on swapping Beccariophoenix for coconuts was something I was parroting from a local big island nursery man.  It felt more like driving into a shopping mall in California with the exception of the coconuts at the entryway monument and at the other end of the driveway when at the resort.  Who travels to Mexico City only to dine at a Taco Bell when they arrive?  I guess too many people.  I hear what you are saying regarding quantity over quality, which in this case is being measured in trunk height.  We don't have to like it.

Good suggestions on the deficiency or banana moths as potential problems with the Pritchardia in the photo i posted. 

[Tomas]

On 1/27/2023 at 9:27 AM, Neil C said:

Seems strange a deficiency could be so localised when the one a few feet behind looks fine?

It may seem strange and I have never seen any explanation for it, but it is a fact. I have four plants of Chamaedorea radicalis growing together in a single pot, one has constant problems with boron deficiency, the others are fine. I have seen it many times, the first observation I made was a row of three Jebaeas, the central one dying from a micronutrient deficiency, the other two being fine.

Plese scroll down to page 4 https://www.growables.org/information/TropicalFruit/documents/BoronDeficiencyPalmsHawaii.pdf

[Patrick]

Prognosis not great. Hopefully its fixable. Grab some seeds lol! 

I had a queen palm do this, but it wound up being the dirt bag neighbors drilled a hole in the base and poured an herbicide or something in it. I only found the offense when I was cutting the tree down years later after they had moved. The new growth from the tree was arcing in the direction of the injury. It all stemmed from them wanting me to cut down the tree because it was blockimg their DirecTV dish that was installed hanging off the roof. I told them to move the dish. Amazing what a little coax cable and lag bolts will do...

[mnorell]

7 hours ago, Tracy said:

The specific location i saw this at was a long entrance with no walkways through a lava field off the highway.  The actual resort began after the line of Washingtonia.   So Pritchardia would have been an option even if shorter for a period as without a walkway no one would be walking into them or Beccariophoenix at the entryway monument.  Regarding nursery men having sufficient patience, the suggestion on swapping Beccariophoenix for coconuts was something I was parroting from a local big island nursery man.  It felt more like driving into a shopping mall in California with the exception of the coconuts at the entryway monument and at the other end of the driveway when at the resort.  Who travels to Mexico City only to dine at a Taco Bell when they arrive?  I guess too many people.  I hear what you are saying regarding quantity over quality, which in this case is being measured in trunk height.  We don't have to like it.

Good suggestions on the deficiency or banana moths as potential problems with the Pritchardia in the photo i posted. 

I agree with you wholeheartedly on the merits of choosing quality over expedience, and there should be no reason Pritchardia couldn't (and shouldn't) be chosen over Washingtonia in Hawai'i, in areas where there is sufficient rainfall or irrigation. I believe most of the Hawai'ian Pritchardia are somewhat slow (though I remember P. beccariana was moderately fast for me in Los Angeles), but P. pacifica is a surprisingly fast grower--P. thurstonii not far behind it--and actually both are used pretty frequently in Hawai'i at resorts and other commercial buildings. I'm sure whoever was responsible for the area outside the resort was doing the quick-and-cheap thing. Since the majority of U.S. visitors to Hawai'i are Californians, it seems odd to me that anyone would emphasize Washingtonia. I'm also guessing that Jeff may be speaking a bit hypothetically, or wistfully in an idealistic way, since he knows firsthand how slow it is to get a Beccariophoenix up and in the same game as the quick-growing coconuts. It seems to me that the real advantage with Beccariophoenix that warrants growing at a commercial scale is in cold-hardiness, and their application would be primarily in SoCal and Central Florida...and I believe Eric Schmidt and others have posted photos on this forum of them being planted in various public/highway areas in the Orlando area now.

Luckily there are many Palm Society folks like us who are dedicated to planting all the wonderful slow stuff, even if we may not be around when they get big (and I love Jubaea and Attalea at any size!). It's sad to me that landscape architects, designers and contractors (or their clients) rarely are willing to take a long-term approach, as they could be interplanting small specimens of long-throw species like Coccothrinax argentata or Pseudophoenix amidst queens or other fast-growing, generally short-lived species. Such a system gives initial (if overfamiliar) enjoyment, but even greater long-term effect, long after those queen palms are gone. Of course many of us use that approach in our own landscapes. But as you say we live in a 'taco bell' world and the customer always seems to want "quick, now, done." Sad.