Fastest growing palm trees for zone 7b/8a

[Jerrrod]

Hi everyone, what would you say are the fastest growing palms for zone 7b/8a?

[amh]

Trachycarpus fortunei and Sabal mexicana will be the fastest growing trunking palms that can survive, but both will need protection for a few years after planting.

[ryjohn]

17 hours ago, amh said:

Trachycarpus fortunei and Sabal mexicana will be the fastest growing trunking palms that can survive, but both will need protection for a few years after planting.

Agree.  Sabals are extremely fast here in northern Louisiana, with the exception of uresana, which is also not very leaf hardy.  Most cultivars of Sabal minor go from 5 gallon to 9’ giants in less than 5 years here, and our summers are often dry.  In Oklahoma I would assume they should grow similarly fast with a bit of irrigation.  There used to be a guy named Don up in OKC who documented all sorts of Sabal species progress, most giving similarly explosive growth.  The trunking ones tended to perish once a couple feet of trunk formed.  

Trachycarpus is cold hardy but less suited to here.  I would not plant another one although you see mature ones all around town.  Sabal palmetto and mexicana are much better 

Edited February 6, 2023 by ryjohn

[MarcusH]

Well Sabals aren't considered to be fast growers at all in fact it takes about 10 to 15 years to grow a visible trunk. Sabal Palmetto are very cold hardy palms they can easily deal with temperatures in the mid teens with only minor leave burn.  I would say they can survive brief cold snaps in the single digits . 

[LeonardHolmes]

Trachycarpus will trunk much faster than most Sabals - and neither may be completely hardy in 7b.  A "Chickasaw country" 7b is likely different from a Virginia 7b.  If you are in a dry climate then Washington robusta might even survive.  They do in New Mexico but not in the East.

[Jerrrod]

Thanks guys, the weather here isn't too bad, rain from February to early June (most times heavy) and dryish for the rest of year. It's really hot and humid during the summer, May to September. It really doesn't get cold until December and/or January. By February we're seeing 70's-80's, just like in November/December. I did buy some Pindo and Washingtonia Filiferia and have about 200 date palm seeds (I love dates). Before the big freeze a couple of years ago I had grown some dates (CIF & true dates) and some Bismarkias. They were between 2-3', didn't know much about growing palms in this area and didn't expect the freezing temperatures. Everyone had told me that it only snows and sticks every 20 years or so, they didn't expect the freeze either. Needless to say I lost them all.

[amh]

Trachycarpus fortunei will be the fastest grower, but Sabal mexicana grows fairly fast, for a sabal, once trunking occurs the growth rate speeds up. Sabal mexicana also experiences temperatures below 10^oF north of San Antonio and west of Austin, as well as being commercially available south of the state line in Texas.  

[ryjohn]

On 2/7/2023 at 4:45 PM, MarcusH said:

Well Sabals aren't considered to be fast growers at all in fact it takes about 10 to 15 years to grow a visible trunk. Sabal Palmetto are very cold hardy palms they can easily deal with temperatures in the mid teens with only minor leave burn.  I would say they can survive brief cold snaps in the single digits . 

I have several Sabals here in north Louisiana that went from 3 gallon to 15’ of clear trunk in 15 years.  They are now taller than the Trachycarpus that were already 15’ tall when I planted the sabals.  I’m shocked to hear your experience is different than that in (even warmer) San Antonio.  In Louisiana there is no faster genus than Sabal, other than maybe Washingtonia, which is less suited to the climate.  Trachycarpus is definitely faster in cooler summer areas, but this guy is in Oklahoma.  Trachycarpus struggles here with the light soils, nematodes, and searing summer heat.

Edited February 9, 2023 by ryjohn

[MarcusH]

16 minutes ago, ryjohn said:

I have several Sabals here in north Louisiana that went from 3 gallon to 15’ of clear trunk in 15 years.  They are now taller than the Trachycarpus that were already 15’ tall when I planted the sabals.  I’m shocked to hear your experience is different than that in San Antonio!  In Louisiana there is no faster genus than Sabal, other than maybe Washingtonia, which is less suited to the climate.  Trachycarpus is definitely faster in cooler summer areas, but this guy is in Oklahoma.  Trachycarpus struggles with the light soils, nematodes, and searing summer heat in my area

I don't have Sabals in our yard or neither did I kept track of the growing process of a sabal palm here in San Antonio I can only go by what nurseries tell me over here. Maybe it has something to do with the lack of rain since it's a lot drier in San Antonio than where you're from. The nursery guy told me once the trunk is visible I could expect about up to 12 inches of growth a year.  

[Allen]

1 hour ago, ryjohn said:

I have several Sabals here in north Louisiana that went from 3 gallon to 15’ of clear trunk in 15 years.  They are now taller than the Trachycarpus that were already 15’ tall when I planted the sabals.  I’m shocked to hear your experience is different than that in (even warmer) San Antonio.  In Louisiana there is no faster genus than Sabal, other than maybe Washingtonia, which is less suited to the climate.  Trachycarpus is definitely faster in cooler summer areas, but this guy is in Oklahoma.  Trachycarpus struggles here with the light soils, nematodes, and searing summer heat.

It would be interesting to see from various forum members their experience with trunking time on Sabals.  Most of what I have seen from various members is 15-20 years to form a trunk a few feet tall.

Here is mine roughly 2-3 years old in 1st pic so 6-7 years old in second pic.  Second pic about 6 foot tall overall.  Of course this is TN

[vcrosstx]

I planted a Sabal mexicana from a 5-gal and 15 years later the trunk is probably 10 to 11 ft. It’s in moderate shade and the leaves are easily 8 ft long from base to leaflet tips. The trunk is also much thicker than Sabal palmetto I see around here. 
 

this palm also survived 2F and almost 200 hours below freezing with only a few hours in the middle at 33. It regrew at least 50% of its crown that following summer.  
 

this is in Dallas and the palm is irrigated and next to a sprinkler two times a week. It took around 4  to 5 years to start “telescoping” but seems to grow about a foot a year now.  I also fertilize it with Carl Pool palm fertilizer. 
 

my only faster palms have been washingtonia hybrids which I had to replant after 2021. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by vcrosstx

[Jerrrod]

Great,now I see that there is hope. Keep the advice coming, I can't wait for next month.:-)🤩 Planting time.

[Jerrrod]

Ok guys, so I went to HD yesterday and they had Mexican fans, sagos and windmills. Is it worth trying or should I just plant my Californias? When is the best time to get them started? BTW the ones at HD were trunking.

 

[ChicagoPalma]

I don't want to be rude, but when I posted the topic Best palms for Chicago, instead of advice and what palms I should think of growing, some members decided to try to be "realistic" and discouraged me from try to grow them. Im fine now and I actually got some suggestions, but yeah, if anyone do have some advice, please post some in the topic.

[Jerrrod]

10 hours ago, ChicagoPalma said:

I don't want to be rude, but when I posted the topic Best palms for Chicago, instead of advice and what palms I should think of growing, some members decided to try to be "realistic" and discouraged me from try to grow them. Im fine now and I actually got some suggestions, but yeah, if anyone do have some advice, please post some in the topic.

Don't think you're rude, you seem to be a newbie as am I. Most times people say that you should start a new thread instead of referencing another one. My take, mind you that this is my first time trying palms in a cold environment, is windmill or needle palms. Those are the ones that I keep hearing about. Good luck.

 

[amh]

I would wait and plant the California fan palms. The Mexican fan palms will only survive with extensive protection, but you could possibly keep them alive for a few years before they outgrow your protection methods. The trachycarpus could be planted after the last frost, but you should be prepared to protect the palm while it grows and acclimates to the local climate. The sagos can be planted after your last frost or can be container grown in perpetuity, being brought inside when temperatures are cold. Just my opinion.

[steve617]

Fastest, I'd say Trachycarpus Nanital and Washingtonia if your 8a and not in a wet winter area. 

[Peachs]

Livistona Nitida

[Little Tex]

37 minutes ago, Peachs said:

Livistona Nitida

no... thats a barely 8b usually 9a palm

[Peachs]

1 hour ago, Little Tex said:

no... thats a barely 8b usually 9a palm

I am in zone 8b with no damage, maybe I could give it a try.

[RJ]

And not a fast growing palm …

[Jerrrod]

Got a little cold this week but maybe I'll start the California next week.

[WattsZ]

26 minutes ago, Jerrrod said:

Got a little cold this week but maybe I'll start the California next week.

I say go with any of them, mex fans, sago, windmills. I am in okc suburbs and we have windmill, sabal mexicanas and mex fans planted, we do winter protect from about 1st wk of feb through March.. well except the windmill it gets off and on protection with being so hardy. Also what HD to you use that had all those palms out right now? 

[ZPalms]

the way your area sells washies and I can't even get a single phoenix roebelenii or musa basjoo from any store 😭

[Jerrrod]

@WattsZ it's the one in Gainesville, I'm going to try to get down there next week and see if they still have them. Usually I can only find the majesty palms there and the local Lowes. I can understand why they insist on selling palms that you can't grow and not stocking what would work. It sort of reminds me of what my old Petco manager said to me about the animals that we sold but didn't give the right information about "if and when it dies, people'll come back and buy more."

[Jerrrod]

Is palmpedia a good website because I'm a little confused. It states 10F for armata and around 20F for Bismarkia. Besides the big freeze it rarely gets below about 25F where I live, maybe my particular area is a microclimate. I don't know. Most of the people that I talk to say it maybe gets cold enough for snow every 20 years. Most days that get cold only last hours before it gets above freezing. Some days it may get in the 20's then within a few days get back into the 40's or 60's. Not that I'll probably try again, but who knows.

[Little Tex]

10 minutes ago, Jerrrod said:

Is palmpedia a good website because I'm a little confused. It states 10F for armata and around 20F for Bismarkia. Besides the big freeze it rarely gets below about 25F where I live, maybe my particular area is a microclimate. I don't know. Most of the people that I talk to say it maybe gets cold enough for snow every 20 years. Most days that get cold only last hours before it gets above freezing. Some days it may get in the 20's then within a few days get back into the 40's or 60's. Not that I'll probably try again, but who knows.

Palmpedia is an excellent website, also it only takes one night in the teens to kill a bismarkia, if it were truly the case it didn’t get below 25f where you live, it would be almost zone 9b, it definitely gets colder than that even in the warmest Oklahoma microclimates, the warmest parts usually get down to 5-10 degrees, and for far too long for an Un-protected armata. Also its not a matter of it getting cold enough for snow, in Houston it gets cold enough for snow every year, its the matter of whether or not precipitation occurs during these below freezing temps. It snows every year in 7b/8a Baltimore for example. Bismarkia is barely plausible in Houston much less Dallas and forget Oklahoma. But an armata might do okay protected.  Just my two cents, and may you have the best of luck. 

[Jerrrod]

Thanks Tex, how would I protect an armata? My coworker says his neighbor digs his palms up and puts them under the house for the winter?!

[Little Tex]

I mean, your co-workers neighbor probably is managing stuff like Tracy’s, needles, and s.minors your best bet is probably a pot, a blue chamerops is far better in my opinion. Armata is a bit of a long-shot, probably need an insulated box with c-9 lights, which isn’t too bad considering how slow these guys are. 

[Jerrrod]

Thanks Tex, every picture that I see of the blue Mediterranean is green and not blue, am I missing something?

[Little Tex]

Not my photo but it looks pretty blue to me

[Jerrrod]

Wow, where's a good place to order from?

[D Palm]

Palmpedia is the best reference to start out with. Different factors go into success and failures of Palm growing such as micro climates, cold protection measures, wet vs dry cold, brief dips of low temperatures vs sustained for multiple days, etc. 

If you really want to sharpen up, click the freeze damage data - Cold Hardiness Master Observation thread. 

[Jerrrod]

Thanks, I was wondering about palmpedia because I noticed that for the Sabal Uresana that first it says reasonably fast growth then the next paragraph says that they are slow growing.

[Little Tex]

14 hours ago, Jerrrod said:

Thanks, I was wondering about palmpedia because I noticed that for the Sabal Uresana that first it says reasonably fast growth then the next paragraph says that they are slow growing.

I think its referring to the fact that its pretty fast for its genus but slow compared to other palms in general.

[Jerrrod]

Ok, that makes since. How fast do they grow overall.

[Little Tex]

40 minutes ago, Jerrrod said:

Ok, that makes since. How fast do they grow overall.

maybe like a foot to a foot and a half a year I have no experience I'm going off a blog I read about it.

[Jerrrod]

That's not too bad.

[amh]

2 hours ago, Jerrrod said:

Ok, that makes since. How fast do they grow overall.

Not fast at all. They are slower than Sabal minor in my experience.

[Jerrrod]

Wow, I just came across a Brahea Decumbens. Man I wish they could grow here.