Christmas Palm - New Fronds Shearing Off at Trunk

[5Vegas]

Location: Central Florida

Palm: mature, established Christmas Palms

 

I’ve recently had a multitude of young fronds adjacent to emerging spears shearing off at trunk under own weight.  We have had some windy days here recently but not enough to cause the amount of frond damage that I’m seeing across multiple palms.  Question:  could this be freeze damage from a few months ago manifesting itself now as these fronds may have suffered damage in early development?  Or could it be something else?  Any guidance / thoughts would be appreciated.

 

have a great weekend!

Edited March 4, 2023 by 5Vegas

[kinzyjr]

23 minutes ago, 5Vegas said:

Location: Central Florida

Palm: mature, established Christmas Palms

 

I’ve recently had a multitude of young fronds adjacent to emerging spears shearing off at trunk under own weight.  We have had some windy days here recently but not enough to cause the amount of frond damage that I’m seeing across multiple palms.  Question:  could this be freeze damage from a few months ago manifesting itself now as these fronds may have suffered damage in early development?  Or could it be something else?  Any guidance / thoughts would be appreciated.

 

have a great weekend!

Welcome to PalmTalk!

Do you have any photos of what is happening?  This can happen after cold snaps like the ones we had around Christmas or the middle of January.

[PalmatierMeg]

We need photos.

Freeze damage manifests itself up to weeks or months after the event. Were the lows you experienced really below freezing? How many times? How long? Where are you? Christmas palms/Adonidias are quite cold sensitive and even one plunge below 32F can kill them outright or damage them so opportunistic bacteria and fungi can finish them off.

[ruskinPalms]

Well this is interesting because each of my two Adonidia have done this too this spring. Each lost  a healthy looking new frond. Mine did not seem to suffer cold damage this year and otherwise look great for coming out of winter. I thought it might have been latent damage from the hurricanes this year. Maybe the growth bud was twisted and damaged by strong winds. They are pushing new spears so will see how it goes. Too dark to take pictures tonight. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by ruskinPalms

[Bkue]

Same. 3 different ones. Newish sprouted fronds on 10yr old + trees. All seemed good but now new growth is breaking off. Nearly full sized fronds. 

[5Vegas]

Adding photos of damage:

[Merlyn]

If the frond in the photo sheared off the side of the top, it might have been weakened by the cold fronts.  I would mark the new spear horizontally with a sharpie across it and the older fronds.  That way you can be sure that the new frond is growing.  Sometimes freeze damages the bud and then palms will grow for a few weeks...then the infection kills the bud and the palm dies soon after.  Adonidia are not very hardy, as Meg mentioned.  I'd squirt it with a little hydrogen peroxide as a preventative treatment.  If it bubbles up there's a fungal infection.

Speaking of that, I need to go treat a Zombia/Coccothrinax hybrid with my Daconil/Hydrogen Peroxide mix.  I noted a new spear trying to collapse, which is usually a crown phytophthora infection.

[ruskinPalms]

The above photos look a lot like what happened to my two adonidia. Hopefully not some serious funk it can’t grow out of. I’ll be watching to see how the latest spears do. 

[ruskinPalms]

Here are some pics of the break off points and some other pics to give you an idea of their general condition. I am able to reach the spear of the smaller one and give it a pull and it is rock solid. Hopefully it is not some weird new palm disease getting going in this area. 
 

 

[ruskinPalms]

I do wonder if these fronds that are breaking off were spears at the time the hurricanes hit?

[ruskinPalms]

Indeed something similar has happened to this foxtail. The frond that broke near the base is still dangling. It has opened a few new fronds since the broken one. 

[D Palm]

The leaflets don’t show signs of cool or cold damage. We have had some high wind days though. Looks like a clean cut in one of the pics, the others look like some kind of damage and ripping.

[donalt]

exact same thing happened to my adonidia; fully formed, new frond broke off. I'm monitoring growth from the bud and so far, it is fine. I sure hope it's not a cold damage issue, though we did have two mornings between 30-32 degrees at Christmas.

[kinzyjr]

Seems like a user in St. Augustine had a similar issue after Hurricane Ian last fall before the cold:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/75952-bottle-palms-broken-spear/

[Bkue]

I just started a new thread on this. All 9 of mine have done this now. No clear answers here. I will say it’s pushing new growth but nothing deciding that I should do. Hope they make it. Feel like they have been through worse. 

[GregH]

Two of my four adonidias have lost a new frond in the past month. They look just like these photos. Clean break on what looks like a healthy frond on a healthy tree. 

Cape Canaveral, Florida. No freezes, but we did have three nights with lows around 40 in late December.  One tropical storm in September and another in November. (Gusts to 55 mph.) And a couple windy days since. 

None of my adonidia palms show any visible wind stress, though many of my other palms and plants look frazzled. 

[Bkue]

The great Christmas palm phenomenon. Hopefully someone comes along with answers. I can’t find anything online. Including wind or freeze. 

[kinzyjr]

This whole thing is odd to me as well. 

My garden has a lot of Adonidia merrillii grown from seed and recorded two nights at 30F.  None of mine have this issue in spite of being juveniles.  There are tons of them in town, some near 20 feet, and I haven't seen this happen to them.  The southeast portion of Lakeland took a pretty good hit from Hurricane Ian, but not nearly as hard as the areas in SW FL.

@PalmatierMeg have you noticed any of this where you are at?

If Meg hasn't seen this in her area, then that should rule out damage from the storm.  At the same time, this was my year to record comparatively colder temperatures during the cold snap.  Mine are fine other than some minor cosmetic damage.  All of them have put out new spears.  My garden also has Foxtails, Carpentaria and Veitchia - none have done the spear drop thing.  Given it was colder here and we had a lot of plant damage from the storm, there are a few things left on the table:

• Rainfall: while SE Lakeland took a hit from wind, I don't think the area received the high rainfall amounts that some of the other areas around Orlando or further SW did.  Some of the photos show a clean cut though - with no visible rot.
• Pest: For a clean cut,  it had to be some kind of pest with the ability to cut like a pair of shears.

[gshurd]

I just posted a topic about this to my xmas palms.  Same thing.

I would say we had one especially cold weekend in Tampa where water actually froze overnight which is rare so this could be cause of that.  Otherwise my 2.5 year trees have survived freeze warnings before without this damage at a younger age, but I think we had a hard freeze warning just north of us in the Brooksville area. Pics of my trees below showing similar damage, I guess we will see if they pull through or not.  If anyone needs more photos I would be glad to help!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19b6R-AMnm3hTmOWyAusXQ3VQ44xiOGvv/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19fOBXvO1u8rHySe7pE3yiavFooSPtoZ3/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19huMYV7QOLyjDU2FXlu-jZ9QBZAjWmXF/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19jNNZxv0G-rXuyBIfXlbZJc0YePua6OS/view?usp=sharing

Edited March 9, 2023 by gshurd

[PalmatierMeg]

15 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

This whole thing is odd to me as well. 

My garden has a lot of Adonidia merrillii grown from seed and recorded two nights at 30F.  None of mine have this issue in spite of being juveniles.  There are tons of them in town, some near 20 feet, and I haven't seen this happen to them.  The southeast portion of Lakeland took a pretty good hit from Hurricane Ian, but not nearly as hard as the areas in SW FL.

@PalmatierMeg have you noticed any of this where you are at?

If Meg hasn't seen this in her area, then that should rule out damage from the storm.  At the same time, this was my year to record comparatively colder temperatures during the cold snap.  Mine are fine other than some minor cosmetic damage.  All of them have put out new spears.  My garden also has Foxtails, Carpentaria and Veitchia - none have done the spear drop thing.  Given it was colder here and we had a lot of plant damage from the storm, there are a few things left on the table:

• Rainfall: while SE Lakeland took a hit from wind, I don't think the area received the high rainfall amounts that some of the other areas around Orlando or further SW did.  Some of the photos show a clean cut though - with no visible rot.
• Pest: For a clean cut,  it had to be some kind of pest with the ability to cut like a pair of shears.

I have had a double and triple Adonidia merrillii planted on the east of our back lanai since 2005. They are now 20-25' tall and have survived the record cold winter of 2009/2010 - a miracle - Hurricanes Irma in 2017 and Ian in 2022. I took the following photos today and surprisingly they look pretty good while they plot to deluge us with next December's crop of seeds. They got a good bashing from Ian but perhaps the screening, metal roof and Sabal Row offered just enough protection to save them from destruction. Regarding other people's woes with this over-hyped species, I believe hurricane damage could be at least partially responsible for the frond damage they see. Ian was a monster that hammered us and much of north central FL for 10-12 hours. One positive. courtesy of Ian, is that my 5 Adonidias lost the bulk of their seeds - good riddance to at least some weedy seedlings. I also note that almost everyone complaining seems to live north, sometimes a couple hundred miles north of me. If you get winter nights that fall to 30-32F or even below 40F you should thank your lucky stars your Christmas palms survived to look like he!!. Years ago I lost a mature Adonidia to one night of 29F. My lowest low this past winter was 41.2F in Dec. But if this past winter had nuked them with lows in the 30s, we'd be firing up the chain saw. 2010 winter wiped out 1/2 to 2//3 of the Adonidias in Cape Coral and the few survivors didn't flower/fruit for 2 years. All 5 of my Adonidias survived, of course, although I lost over 30 other palm species to cold. An uber tropical heartbreaker to all who covet them but can't meet their environmental demands.

Adonidia merrillii, Cape Coral, FL 2023

[ruskinPalms]

I guess it probably has something to do with cold. I went back to the Florida winter thread and it looks like it went down to around 33 a few times this year in my yard. Overall the palms look great and about the best they ever have coming out of winter. Maybe it is just a combo effect of hurricane stress followed by cold stress. Hopefully I’m not at ground zero for some horrible new palm pathogen…

[gshurd]

I looked up and the cold weather even I am talking about happened on Dec 24 and 25 with lows in New Port Richey of 32. 

 

[sybil]

my Christmas Palms are doing the same thing.  Breaking off about 5-6 inches past the trunk.  First year this has happened.  Does anyone have anymore information at this time?

 

[kinzyjr]

On 4/25/2023 at 7:11 PM, sybil said:

my Christmas Palms are doing the same thing.  Breaking off about 5-6 inches past the trunk.  First year this has happened.  Does anyone have anymore information at this time?

Welcome to PalmTalk. 

I think the predominant theory is the combination of Hurricane Ian and the cold front in December had something to do with it.  There are cases to be made for and against either or both, but this many people don't report the same thing in different areas without the cause being something that impacted almost the entire area of the state where it is possible to grow these. 

Do you happen to know how low the temperature went in your area during the Christmas 2022 cold snap?

[Bkue]

I’m still not sure about mine. I finally have one of 9 with with a decent spear. The others are growing but below the threshold of where they keep falling.  Not a great pic but shows my concern. 

[ruskinPalms]

I think my two are growing out of it. They’ve both pushed two new fronds since I first posted to this thread and the latest seem to be holding up so far. The fronds before the latest both sheared off but much higher up on the frond which suggests that some sort of insult happened to the growth bud at the same level. I guess it probably was the cold in December, perhaps combined with a little hurricane stress from Ian and Nicole. At any rate, I do think they are growing out of it but we will see. 
 

Edited April 28, 2023 by ruskinPalms

[kinzyjr]

@Bkue + @ruskinPalms This is weird, because I'm pretty sure my two nights bottoming off at 30F were colder than what either of your gardens experienced.  We also had 9 days without power because a nearly 100 ft. tall oak got taken down just on the other side of the fence from me during Hurricane Ian.  In spite of this, my plants are certainly younger (seed grown) and experienced very little setback.  The only other thing I can figure is that potentially higher rainfall totals in other areas leeched the bulk of the nutrients out of the soil for a while.

This Adonidia merrillii never stopped growing.

Each of the new spears come out full sized and strong.

One of its siblings is a little smaller, but equally strong.

This one is not quite as strong as the other two, but it is actively growing and hasn't sheared off any spears.

There is a two leaf seedling in the yard that is doing alright as well.

[ruskinPalms]

Sigh… I’m really not sure what it is… but it isn’t just me. It really wasn’t all that cold this year. Another solid zone 10 year. On my jog today through my hood today I tried to take extra notice of the Adonidia. And I didn’t see any others with sheered off fronds. But it isn’t easy to see when they are larger. Mine are taller than they appear in these pics, would require a ladder to get better photographic angles. I did see plenty that are succumbing to same pathogen that took out my other two that were part of this original 4 palm planting.

[ruskinPalms]

I kinda figure these are susceptible to lethal bronzing though I don’t think this is causing the shearing problem. So many things kill these palms here in Florida, guess it is a side effect of them being planted so heavily and sold at every big box store. 

[Merlyn]

@ruskinPalmsmy Adonidia triple died after the first winter in the ground, they had about 1-3' of trunk.  In my case it was a trunk rot, likely Thielaviopsis.  I cut one of the trunks in half with a reciprocating saw and it was completely dead inside, see below photo.  After I squeezed the trunk on the right I decided it was just soft enough to probably be infected too.  So I chopped it off at the base and trashed the whole thing without cutting into it.  Trunk rots can cause fronds to fold in half or break off, since there isn't enough hydrostatic pressure to keep them solid.  I don't think that a bent frond is a sign that the palm is doomed, but it might be worth poking around on the trunk to see if there's any significant soft spots.

[ruskinPalms]

47 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

@ruskinPalmsmy Adonidia triple died after the first winter in the ground, they had about 1-3' of trunk.  In my case it was a trunk rot, likely Thielaviopsis.  I cut one of the trunks in half with a reciprocating saw and it was completely dead inside, see below photo.  After I squeezed the trunk on the right I decided it was just soft enough to probably be infected too.  So I chopped it off at the base and trashed the whole thing without cutting into it.  Trunk rots can cause fronds to fold in half or break off, since there isn't enough hydrostatic pressure to keep them solid.  I don't think that a bent frond is a sign that the palm is doomed, but it might be worth poking around on the trunk to see if there's any significant soft spots.

It originally had 4 trunks. I think the other two died from exactly this. Im sure the two trunks I have left will not be long term here which is ok because it is in a prime spot in which I could plant any number of more interesting things. 

[Bkue]

Here is the most recent. Grabbed it today. Most have a spear going including this one. Not sure if they will fail or not but it’s been 2-3 per head so far. If they make it it will sure make for an odd appearance in a few months .

[Arose]

My Christmas Tree palm is doing the same thing in St. Petersburg Florida. 
I have noticed it happen 3 times now and it looks like someone cut it off. It is well established and over 4 years old. 
Other than this happening it looks healthy. I hope it’s just a weird occurrence from Ian and the cold weather in December. 

[Bkue]

Good news. One of mine has decided to put out flowers for the 1st time. All have heathy spears now. 

[kinzyjr]

@Arose

I spoke with a grower on the coast who said they had something similar at their nursery.  The nursery in question recorded 29F and got 20"+ of rain from Hurricane Ian.

@Bkue Good news indeed!  Glad to hear it!

[ruskinPalms]

I think mine are growing out of it. Pic from today

 

[flplantguy]

All the Adonidias at the Westin resort in Cape Coral looked fine except the oldest crownshaft missing the leaf on a few, obviously torn off in the winds from the hurricane. One on an island was next to a building still half collapsed into the water, and the palm all by itself looked like nothing happened, and was even starting to bloom.  Tougher than their small size would make you think (except cold but im the same way lol. The ones near here still look terrible).

[Bkue]

Update. Pushing new growth with vengeance. 4 of 9 have gone to fruiting or flowering whichever term you prefer. 
 

the damaged areca’s have nearly all recovered, 2 coconuts are going strong, the Europeans and ribbons were untouched, and the new bis and 3 royals are going strong provided I keep enough water on them. 

[ruskinPalms]

Just a quick pic from this evening. They seem to be doing ok, one is heavily flowering. You can see a couple of the rotted fronds still lingering. They have been growing fast with all this heat and humidity (with supplemental watering because I am in the middle of a severe localized drought this summer…). 
 

[ruskinPalms]

One of the foxtails in the background is about to open a flower spathe. Might be cool to have some Wodyetia x Adonidia seeds to tinker with. I wonder which palm would be the most likely candidate to have hybridized seeds on it? 🤔