kopsick Palm Identification Request - Gizella Kopsick Palm Arboretum - Saint Petersburg, FL

[kinzyjr]

A request for assistance was sent in by a staff member at Kopsick.  They would like to get a definite ID on the palm in the photos shared in this post.  Some backstory on the palms and attempted IDs thus far from garden staff:

These were initially" Ghost planted" in a lawn area at GKPA quite a few years ago and were 3-gallon size. so, we removed them and I held them until they reached a safe plantable size, then they were placed in this bed and have taken off!

• Initially, tentatively id'd as possibly(lol) Rhopalostylis baueri
• another suggestion was Archontophoenix myolensis however the fronds are these are much more erect on these than myolensis and a longer crown shaft.

My ability to ID Archontophoenix starts and stops with the blue/silver undersides of the leaflets.  Given the size of the base of the trunk, somewhat stepped appearance, and upright crown - my best guess is Archontophoenix alexandrae.  If it appears to be something else, please share your take on the ID and the reason why for the staff.  I'll share this link with them so they can view.

[mnorell]

That is NOT Archontophoenix alexandrae...which has chalky-green leaves/crownshaft, held quite differently. I can't help, unfortunately, in the I.D. Am as stumped as anybody there.

[tim_brissy_13]

1 hour ago, mnorell said:

That is NOT Archontophoenix alexandrae...which has chalky-green leaves/crownshaft, held quite differently. I can't help, unfortunately, in the I.D. Am as stumped as anybody there.

I don’t see any reason to definitively rule out alexandrae. The fronds look a bit wind damaged which makes it hard, but I’d say A. Alexandra’s most likely. A. tuckeri also a chance but they’re much less common. 

[mnorell]

1 hour ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I don’t see any reason to definitively rule out alexandrae. The fronds look a bit wind damaged which makes it hard, but I’d say A. Alexandra’s most likely. A. tuckeri also a chance but they’re much less common. 

I can only go from my personal experience seeing them over the years in Southern California (where they are uncommon, but present in botanical gardens and some gardens) and on the Big Island of Hawai'i (where they have naturalized), and where they have a completely different appearance from those pictured, and a much lighter color, I think also a somewhat broader leaf, and different position of the leaf. Also, it seems very unlikely that a major botanical garden in Florida couldn't easily identify one of the common landscape plants of Central Florida. But, granted, there are multiple forms of even A. alexandrae (e.g., 'Beatricae' with the stepped trunk), and you may be right that there can be that much variation in the crown within the species. I just have never seen one with even remotely that appearance or coloration, so I would personally suspect one of the many other miscellaneous forms of Archontophoenix growing along the east coast of Australia before going to A. alexandrae.

But to put it to rest, it looks like there is plentiful fruit on those palms, perhaps also some flowers, which means they should easily be ID'd that way...rather than guessing visually from a photograph of the somewhat tattered crowns of this grouping.

[Fishinsteeg234]

My initial thought was A myolensis. Here is pic from Palmpedia, with that deep green form, that looks similar:

https://palmpedia.net/wiki/File:Archontophoenix_myolensis.jpg

https://palmpedia.net/wiki/Archontophoenix_myolensis

 

[hbernstein]

I'm going with Archontophoenix.

[palmboi]

12 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

A request for assistance was sent in by a staff member at Kopsick.  They would like to get a definite ID on the palm in the photos shared in this post.  Some backstory on the palms and attempted IDs thus far from garden staff:

These were initially" Ghost planted" in a lawn area at GKPA quite a few years ago and were 3-gallon size. so, we removed them and I held them until they reached a safe plantable size, then they were placed in this bed and have taken off!

• Initially, tentatively id'd as possibly(lol) Rhopalostylis baueri
• another suggestion was Archontophoenix myolensis however the fronds are these are much more erect on these than myolensis and a longer crown shaft.

My ability to ID Archontophoenix starts and stops with the blue/silver undersides of the leaflets.  Given the size of the base of the trunk, somewhat stepped appearance, and upright crown - my best guess is Archontophoenix alexandrae.  If it appears to be something else, please share your take on the ID and the reason why for the staff.  I'll share this link with them so they can view.

n

Thank you kinzyjr for posting here.

 as a member It Really should have popped in my head to do so myself, . as it was a busy week i guess I had a blond moment. lol.  I did post this several other places and am getting general consensus, that  most Likely it is A. tuckerii, as we have A. myolenis at GKPA, having been involved  there for 24+ years.  Even tho between Phil Stager, Nate Bowden and myself we have a combined knowledge of over 65 years. none of us are botanists or scientists , just dedicated palm enthusiasts.  We are working on a new round  of new and additional  add signage and are doing our best as volunteers to make sure we have  correct names and Id's on over 500 palms and cycads representing over 150 species.

 we have also upgraded the old sign stanchions from 20 years ago to these new ones that now finally also include QR codes with links to the plant they are associated with.

 we also were able recently to have the City of St pete to do a drone mapping of the GKPA, the palm/cycad is now held and maintained by the City, from whe n it was originally held and one by another palm volunteer. Thank you all for all your input and advice.

[palmboi]

10 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I don’t see any reason to definitively rule out alexandrae. The fronds look a bit wind damaged which makes it hard, but I’d say A. Alexandra’s most likely. A. tuckeri also a chance but they’re much less common. 

I agree this is my own A. alexandre

[palmboi]

1 minute ago, palmboi said:

I agree this is my own A. alexandre

and My own A. tuckeri, which is why we are leaning to that

[palmboi]

9 hours ago, mnorell said:

I can only go from my personal experience seeing them over the years in Southern California (where they are uncommon, but present in botanical gardens and some gardens) and on the Big Island of Hawai'i (where they have naturalized), and where they have a completely different appearance from those pictured, and a much lighter color, I think also a somewhat broader leaf, and different position of the leaf. Also, it seems very unlikely that a major botanical garden in Florida couldn't easily identify one of the common landscape plants of Central Florida. But, granted, there are multiple forms of even A. alexandrae (e.g., 'Beatricae' with the stepped trunk), and you may be right that there can be that much variation in the crown within the species. I just have never seen one with even remotely that appearance or coloration, so I would personally suspect one of the many other miscellaneous forms of Archontophoenix growing along the east coast of Australia before going to A. alexandrae.

But to put it to rest, it looks like there is plentiful fruit on those palms, perhaps also some flowers, which means they should easily be ID'd that way...rather than guessing visually from a photograph of the somewhat tattered crowns of this grouping.

Thanks as i posted above, tho GKPA is classified as a Major Botanical Gardens and we also have achieved level 2 Arboretum Accreditation in the Morton Register of Arboreta it is a City owned open Park,  which is the only Park in the City that  has it's own Trust and is administered ONLY thru The City Beautification Commission . Tho Phil, Nate and I have a combined  palm and cycad knowledge of over 65 years none of us are Degreed Palm Botanists.

Several times over the years we have been fortunate enough to Have Dr Monica Elliott and her Husband Dr Tim Broschat stop by and give us advice, the both have now retired from IFAS and the City of St Pete does not have a Palm Botanist on staff. Thank you for your input

 

[sonoranfans]

14 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I don’t see any reason to definitively rule out alexandrae. The fronds look a bit wind damaged which makes it hard, but I’d say A. Alexandra’s most likely. A. tuckeri also a chance but they’re much less common. 

I have both (2) myolensis and (3) alexandre and there is not a noticable difference in leaflet color, I dont think that is a reliable morphology ID.  One of my myolensis(same source) is in 6+ hrs sun the other is not.  The one in part sun is notably more glacous(light blue hues) when the new crownshaft is exposed.  Alexandre seem to have bigger leaves and leaflets and they start about 1' from the crownshaft while the myolensis leaflets start 6-8" from the crownshaft.  My myolensis are fruiting. alexandre are starting to push inflorescences, maybe fruit this year.  Both have white undersides of leaflets in lower or late day light cant see this in bright overhead sunlight.  The crownshafts of my alexandre are slightly more pale and the trunks moist recent rings are perhaps more yellowish. 

 

Here are some pics from 2019 (when I could see them better from the ground).   First two are myolensis from the same source/same time 3 gallon(mike Evans), the third picture shows an alexandre triple purchased as 1 gallons from MBpalms the same year.  The alexandre are 8' taller now at least now.

[PalmatierMeg]

The Rhopalostylis genus cannot be grown in FL as far as I know. Hot days and sweltering nights will stifle those species

[sonoranfans]

I cant tell which they are from the pics.