Butia x Parajubaea

[steve 9atx]

Dick

Per your request, here's a chronology of my hybrids for you.  Since I haven't figured out multiple pics per post, this'll take few.  I purchased strap-leafed seedlings from Phil in the spring of '03.  I probably got them in the ground in the fall of that year.

[steve 9atx]

Making pinnate fronds by the spring of '04.

[steve 9atx]

Summer of '06, maybe 6' tall to the "tips".  The hybrid is the palm to the right, the one one the left is a Bangalow I started from seed in 2003.

[steve 9atx]

Here it is a little over a year later.  I measure the "tip" at 10' (it's being squashed a little by the Bangalow).  I have another hybrid to the left which gets a little more sun and is maybe two feet taller.  A third one was underperforming, only about 4' tall, so I donated it to Mercer Arboretum this summer.  Maybe they can get it to grow.

[steve 9atx]

Here's a pic of the lovely burlap it makes.

[steve 9atx]

Finally, the new growth.  This may be hard to see from the pic, but it has the odd habit of pushing two fronds at once.  Or, at least it pushes multiple fronds each of which is not completely "open" before the next one starts; it pushes new spears before it can grow the petiole of the previous spear long enough for all the leaflets to open up.

[Nigel]

My biggest and most vigorous has that same burlap.

My slowest one is my favourite and probably has the potential to be the most beautiful one.

Steve, maybe you were hasty in selling it !

[PalmGuyWC]

Steve,

Thanks so much for the nice photos of your Butia X Parajbaeas. Yours are just a little bit larger than mine, but mine only went in the ground in spring of 2006. Mine only speeded up when it went in the ground, and it's one of the fastest growing palms in my garden. Mine also has several fronds opening at once. I think this is going to be the palm for all seasons and varied climates.

The petioles are without spines and the "burlap" looks like a Parajubaea. I'm sure my nights are much cooler in the warmer months than yours are, but mine just keeps growing. (typical low here at night in the summer is upper 50's to mid 60's). Mine was cold tested down to 23F last winter and the ground was frozen about an inch deep around it, and it wasn't touched by the cold. Night after night of hard frost and no damage, and growing under open sky.

I don't know if any are growing in San Francisco yet, but they should do well over there since both parents grow there, however Butias are VERY slow over there.

It will be interesting to see what kind of trunks these hybrids have.  I suspect they are going to shoot up like a Parajubaea, or at least I hope so. Thanks again, Steve and Nigel for the photos. Let's stay in touch and compair notes.

Dick

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Steve, thanks for posting the pictures. I am very interested in the cold hardy hybrids and must say you have a winner, with the B x P. I'll bet it would grow even faster if those ferns and that great looking red Crinum were not competing with it. I notice you mentioned you have multiple hybrids and show 3 tags. One of those tags says "F1" and the other two just say "BxP", leaving the possibility that they could be F2. I am under the impression that all the BxP hybrids out there are F1.  Do you think all yours are F1?

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Nigel, I have followed your posts for some time and you seem to have a good knowledge for the cool hardy palms and I respect your opinions. You say that your slowest BxP may have "the potential to be the most beautiful one". Is this based on actual observation or the universal rule that the more beautiful something is the slower or harder it will be to grow? By the way, I can't wait for your hybrids to mature to see what all the combinations will look like.

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Dick, thanks for the great info on the BxP! It is good to know they can handle frozen ground and, at least, 23F well, and that they speed up when given room to grow, in ground. The fact that they are one of your fastest palms says a lot too. I think I have seen somewhere that you have a Butia x Syagrus. Do these BxP look or compare, in any way anything like your Butia X Syagrus?

[Gaston in Argentina]

WOW!!

So, it was true!

A very cocolike palm.-

Wonderfull palm.with a BIG future not just as ornamental if not perhaps for edible pulp and nuts for our climates.-

A NOBEL for its creator!!

I trink that your palm soon will show their fruits.-

What do you espect?

Sterile or fertile seeds?

more cocoideslike non edible or

more Butialike edible fruit??

Steve.- The one of your hybryd show some Butialike V  leaf form, but not the nearest.-Can be?

....you have preziated jewells in yourv garden,,,, if i would be you, would move the Archontoph. and that big agressive plant growing so near.-

[Nigel]

(Jeff zone 8 N.C. @ Sep. 29 2007,21:22)

QUOTE

Nigel, You say that your slowest BxP may have "the potential to be the most beautiful one". Is this based on actual observation or the universal rule that the more beautiful something is the slower or harder it will be to grow? By the way, I can't wait for your hybrids to mature to see what all the combinations will look like.

Jeff, its just an instinct based on experience.

I bought 3 JxB a while back, one was a runt but is now by far the most beautiful and compact of the bunch and has caught up in size.

Altogether I have 3 BxP , the 3rd is in a pot. Two of them have the long leaf like the ones shown in Steves pic , my one concern is the fact that the crown seems disproportianately large to the base and I just wonder that when its bigger maybe it is going to blow over in a gale because they dont look particularly robust.

The smaller one has a very straight and sturdy shorter leaf and sturdy base. The leaf is also a darker glossier green colour and it just looks so beautiful. They are all incredible coconut lookalikes and like Dick says can possibly be one of the best landscape palms for the cold climate.

I love them all and will never sell the ones I have left.

I am away for a few days but I will put the one in the pot next to the one in the ground and take a picture. One thing I did find out was that redspider mite is a threat to this palm, the potted one was attacked quite badly in my greenhouse whilst surrounding butias were untouched.

[PalmGuyWC]

So many questions and some I can't answer, but I'll start with what I know, or think I know. As far as I know there are no F2 hybrids as this hybrid is so new that there are none bearing fruit yet. Steve has the largest ones I've seen in photographs. The only plant I've seen is the one growing in my garden. From the photographs, they all look to be uniform in apperance, however Patrick, the hybridizer, tells me there are slight veariations.

They differ in apperance from Butia X Syagrus having a more "open" spread of the fronds and their color is a lighter green than Butiagrus. The blades of the fronds are spaced further apart and they are thiner than Butiagrus, also the base of the petioles are wrapped with heavy fiber or burlap, which gives it a very distinctive apperance. I suspect as they mature this fiber will become even more prominent as this is a reflection of its Parajubaea parentage. As to what the trunk will ultimately look like, will it be thick and stout like a Butia or will it shoot up and grow tall like a Parajubaea? We will just have to wait and see. Will the fruit be larger like a Parajubaea and will it be viable?  Again, we will have to wait and see.

I'm also curious to see what the bloom spathes will look like.  Butias generally have smooth bloom spathes while Parajubaeas have deep ridges on the spathes. This hybrid is a work in progress, so we will all have to be patient. I'm sure the first to have one bloom will have bragging rights.

This is not an easy hybrid to do as there is usually a low precentage of seeds that set on the mother tree, so I expect this will always be a rare hybrid and expensive. One of the problems is obtaining Parajubaea pollen, as there aren't that many mature ones in N. Calif.  I expect some years down the road, as the hundreds of young Parajubaeas planted in Calif. and other places start flowering, there will be more hybrids.

Dick

[NCpalmqueen]

Wow.  Thanks for the photos!  

I have to ask a dumb    question.  Which parajubaea is being used as the parent?  

Thanks

[PalmGuyWC]

Hi PalmQueen,

Not a dumb queston at all.  So far P. cocoides pollen has been used, mostly because it's the most available, and it's even hard to find.  An attempt was made with P torallyi torallyi and not many seeds were set and only two seeds germinated, but the pollen could have been old or maybe conditions weren't just right. There are many possibilities when the other Parajubaeas start blooming in Calif. At least we know it's possible now. P. Sunkhi would be a good canidate, since it's smaller growing and is reported to be the most cold hardy, but no pollen is available yet.

There are so many possibilities with these cocoid hybrids, and only the tip of the ice burg has been touched yet. Jubaea and P. cocoides was crossed and only two seedlings resulted....and they both died about a year later. The grower said it could have been cultural conditions because he gave them to much water. So many possibilites lie ahead, using both Butia or Jubaea or Butia X Jubaea as mother plants and their inheritent cold hardiness. Very few of the exotic Syagrus have been tried, such as S. botryophora which has quite a different apperance from the other Syagrus.

It's unknown yet how cold hardy the tropical Syagrus crosses will be, but with Butia or Jubaea "blood" in them, they should be much more hardy than left alone.

Dick

[JD in the OC]

I know of two Para coccoides that are flowering in Fullerton (Orange County).  They have good flowers with lots of pollen.  I have a friend who maintains them and he could get pollen to send out if someone has a nice butia they'd like to try it on.

JD

[PalmGuyWC]

For the past week, my night time temps. have fallen below 50F (10C) into the mid to upper 40's. The daytime temps have been sunny and warm. I marked 3 different palms with a felt pen to check their growth rates, and they are all growing near each other with equal amounts of light. The Butia X Parajubaea grew twice as fast as T. wagnerianus and Parajubaea T V T. I marked the emerging frond spikes, and the B X P grew about 1/2 inch in a 24 hr. period. This seems pretty fast considering how chilly the nights have been.

Dick

[Eric in Orlando]

Here is the 2 we are growing here, so far they are growing well;

[iwan]

Here are a couple recent pictures of Dick's BxP taken in early September.  Hope you are feeling better Dick, we missed you at the meeting.

Cat for scale.

[Nigel]

(iwan @ Oct. 10 2007,09:18)

QUOTE

Here are a couple recent pictures of Dick's BxP taken in early September.  Hope you are feeling better Dick, we missed you at the meeting.

Cat for scale.

Gadzooks ! its enormous already

[iwan]

For comparison, March 2007 (6 months growth).

[PalmGuyWC]

Thanks Robert for posting the photos. As you can see my garden "helper" cut off all the lower fronds from A to Z.  He also over trimmed my T. wagnerianus, and I could have broken his neck for that. I don't cut fronds untill they yellow or turn brown....but he likes the "neat" look. My response to his efforts would not be printable on here.

Thanks again Robert, I'm on the mend.

Dick

[Nigel]

(PalmGuyWC @ Oct. 10 2007,10:15)

QUOTE

I don't cut fronds untill they yellow or turn brown....but he likes the "neat" look. My response to his efforts would not be printable on here.

Dick

I am the same Dick, its my pet hate.

It can be really exasperating at times, you try to explain to a client not to cut leaves because they are the powerhouse of the plants transition into its new planting spot after buying, yet they soon chop the palm back to 3 or 4 perfect leaves and wonder why it dies in mid winter or takes ages to get going.

Madness !

[Gaston in Argentina]

This hybrid is promising to be one of the most beautifull palms that

i can grow in my climate.-

It should be more produced, by millions!

By, by queen palms!

Fantastic pictures.-

[PalmGuyWC]

While on the subject of cocoid hybrids, let's not forget that Butia X Syagrus is also a beautiful hybrid and they are more readily available than the other cocoid hybrids. They are cold hardy down to at least 15F (-9.44C) and they are also fast growing.

Just testing the water here but.....if you had your choice, which of the following hybrids would you pick? The first named is the mother plant.  Jubaea X Butia.....Jubaea X (Butia X Jubaea).......(Butia X Jubaea) X Syagrus.

Dick

[iamjv]

my choice would be the (Butia X Jubaea) X Syagrus.  Just feel you might get the best of the three species...  Jv

[merrill]

Ah, you lucky fellows!  Wish we could grow Parajubaea and Jubaea here in FL.  It seems otherwise to be very convenient to breed Pj and J; there doesn't seem from this distance to be a sterility problem until one introduces Queen into the equation.  I urge you fellows to try ([JXB]XPj)Queen, or any other combination ending with the last male parent being queen.  I may have posted  [(JXB)XBX]Queen photographs to the point of being tiresome, but it does have a relatively heavy smooth trunk.  When ([JXB]XPj matures, it would be interesting to use it as a pollen parent on Queen altho Queen crosses seem easier if queen is the father.

QUOTING IAMJV

my choice would be the (Butia X Jubaea) X Syagrus.  Just feel you might get the best of the three species...  Jv          

Hi, Johnny:

(Butia X Jubaea) X Syagrus would be wonderful, and probably somewhat similar to  [(JXB)XBX]Queen.  

Best Wishes, merrill

[PalmGuyWC]

Hi Merrill,

Patrick has already crossed (Butia X Jubaea) X Syagrus. I put a 5 gal. one in the ground this summer, but it's a little early to see it's adult characteristics, however it differs from Butiagrus as it has stiffer fronds and they have a heavier texture. It's grown fairly rapidly, but usually anything with Jubaea in it grows very slowly in the begining.

He has crossed Jubaea X Syagrus and it has a heavy texture, but is growing very slowly. He has also crossed Syagrus X Jubaea, but he got such a good seed set that he's suspicious they are not true. He says the seedlings look more like Syagrus, but they are very small.

Actually, he's done so many crosses and combinations there of, that I can't keep up with him. The real winner so far is Butia X Parajubaea, but it's a difficult cross to make and usually not many seeds set. Usually of the seeds that set only about 1 out of 4 will be viable and have an embryo. Another mystery is why sometimes using the same pollen, he will get a good seed set on one inflorescence and on another not a single seed will set. There are so many veariables concerning hybridizing, and it's hard to pin down why.

Dick

[maesy]

Hi Dick   :laugh:

Thank you very much for your help!

First I was lucky, that Patrick agreed to send me one, and then I was lucky again, that it passed through all the way to me with no problems!

In only seven days it was here.

I put the plant on a windowsill and now I`m waiting for its first move.

To all of you, please keep on sharing your expirience.

I`m planing to plant it out in 2009 when it goes in the third year. Then it realy will be going to be tested for cold hardyness.

Say hello and thanks to Patrick.

Regards, Marcel

[Gaston in Argentina]

(PalmGuyWC @ Oct. 20 2007,15:55)

QUOTE

Hi Merrill,

Patrick has already crossed (Butia X Jubaea) X Syagrus. I put a 5 gal. one in the ground this summer, but it's a little early to see it's adult characteristics, however it differs from Butiagrus as it has stiffer fronds and they have a heavier texture. It's grown fairly rapidly, but usually anything with Jubaea in it grows very slowly in the begining.

He has crossed Jubaea X Syagrus and it has a heavy texture, but is growing very slowly. He has also crossed Syagrus X Jubaea, but he got such a good seed set that he's suspicious they are not true. He says the seedlings look more like Syagrus, but they are very small.

Actually, he's done so many crosses and combinations there of, that I can't keep up with him. The real winner so far is Butia X Parajubaea, but it's a difficult cross to make and usually not many seeds set. Usually of the seeds that set only about 1 out of 4 will be viable and have an embryo. Another mystery is why sometimes using the same pollen, he will get a good seed set on one inflorescence and on another not a single seed will set. There are so many veariables concerning hybridizing, and it's hard to pin down why.

Dick

PalmGuyWC

So, that`s mean that theres a mature fruiting ButiaXParajubaea.- I think anyone would like to watch a picture for to know how it look this hybrid as big sized...