United Kingdom vs Holland vs Central Texas Mega Thread

[Little Tex]

All Disscusion open

This is so we can all stop hijacking threads, we can all agree it kills the vibe of a random thread so we shall do it here,

Ill start with a hot-take, Central Texas's Washingtonia are superior looking to UK specimens (obviously south texas has no competition with the UK)

[Teegurr]

They are taller and crowns often fuller, but UK's look more consistently nice recently because lack of really cold air.

[Little Tex]

2 minutes ago, Teegurr said:

They are taller and crowns often fuller, but UK's look more consistently nice recently because lack of really cold air.

Yeah but they tend to keep their boots and have little ugly crowns

[SeanK]

27 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

All Disscusion open

This is so we can all stop hijacking threads, we can all agree it kills the vibe of a random thread so we shall do it here,

Ill start with a hot-take, Central Texas's Washingtonia are superior looking to UK specimens (obviously south texas has no competition with the UK)

Please provide photographic evidence.  The best Washies I've ever seen are in z9+ AZ.

Too many folks in TX have an 80-ft robusta planted behind a 100-ft^2 ranch house. 

[Little Tex]

3 minutes ago, SeanK said:

Please provide photographic evidence.  The best Washies I've ever seen are in z9+ AZ.

Too many folks in TX have an 80-ft robusta planted behind a 100-ft^2 ranch house. 

Sure, But I agree AZ has nice ones but I never mentioned them

[Little Tex]

11 minutes ago, SeanK said:

Too many folks in TX have an 80-ft robusta planted behind a 100-ft^2 ranch house. 

I assume you mean stuff like this

[MarcusH]

Yesterday we came back from Corpus.  The weather wasn't as good as we wanted to be so we left early. First time camping right at the beach.  I went to CC quite a few times before I moved to SA and after.  I haven't been there since last year and I have noticed that the freeze in December didn't do zero damage . I assume it wasn't that cold down here.  Some businesses start planting Queens . Robustas,  Filibusta and Filifera all look nice.  I'm amazed that February 2021 only killed a few pure Robustas.  There are tons of Robustas 50 footer around.  CIDPs with beautiful crowns.  SA doesn't have as many palms as CC but all of them over here are recovering well.  Corpus is only 2 hrs away from SA but quite a few degrees warmer.  Here are some evidence of TEXAS palms . Just a fraction of palms on pictures.  

[Axel Amsterdam]

This thread made me laugh. Boys and gals, look at my Skyduster 😎

[Little Tex]

13 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

This thread made me laugh. Boys and gals, look at my Skyduster 😎

?

[Xenon]

27 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Yesterday we came back from Corpus.  The weather wasn't as good as we wanted to be so we left early. First time camping right at the beach.  I went to CC quite a few times before I moved to SA and after.  I haven't been there since last year and I have noticed that the freeze in December didn't do zero damage . I assume it wasn't that cold down here.  Some businesses start planting Queens . Robustas,  Filibusta and Filifera all look nice.  I'm amazed that February 2021 only killed a few pure Robustas.  There are tons of Robustas 50 footer around.  CIDPs with beautiful crowns.  SA doesn't have as many palms as CC but all of them over here are recovering well.  Corpus is only 2 hrs away from SA but quite a few degrees warmer.  Here are some evidence of TEXAS palms . Just a fraction of palms on pictures.  

You need to drive a few more hours to RGV (the real south Texas), it's Corpus Christi on steroids....take all of the Washingtonia in Corpus Christi, Houston, etc and multiply by x100 and you get the Valley hahaha

 

[Foxpalms]

1 hour ago, Little Tex said:

All Disscusion open

This is so we can all stop hijacking threads, we can all agree it kills the vibe of a random thread so we shall do it here,

Ill start with a hot-take, Central Texas's Washingtonia are superior looking to UK specimens (obviously south texas has no competition with the UK)

I agree, except from when central Texas has cold spells that fry or in some instances kill the Washingtonia. The Washingtonia in central London also need another 10 or so years to get some more size on them.

[UK_Palms]

30 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

All Disscusion open

This is so we can all stop hijacking threads, we can all agree it kills the vibe of a random thread so we shall do it here,

Ill start with a hot-take, Central Texas's Washingtonia are superior looking to UK specimens (obviously south texas has no competition with the UK)

 

Bloody hell, so it has devolved into this now has it. 

So central Texas will probably shoot down southern England in the Washie department. There's obviously an argument that the climate is much better favoured for them over there with more heat and sunshine, but at the same time we have only been planting them over here in the past 10-20 years really. So there isn't going to be any 'skydusters' over here, yet. 

However, remember there is a big Washingtonia stand at Ventnor with over 30 specimens now. I haven't seen them for nearly 2 years, so they will likely be even bigger now. They were planted very small about 15 years ago, but are over 30 foot in height today. The crowns are pretty full. Any central Texas challengers...? Please, no pics from Corpus Christi or the RGV! 

 

When I am off work next month, I will check on the big pure Filifera at Canvey, which is about 30 miles east of London. That thing absolutely dwarfs the house nowadays. It is probably about 35 foot in height and has probably flowered. Again, I am not convinced southern England washies beat central Texas washies, at least not yet anyway. Here is the biggest one I know of in London, which most people have already seen...

 

Dare I ask about southern England CIDP vs central Texas CIDP...? I will exclude the ones on the Isles of Scilly as they are nearly 100 footers now and will instantly beat anything coming out of central Texas. Those ones will possibly beat any in southern Texas even. I could post up some pretty big CIDP's from London and the south coast, so lets see the best that central Texas has to offer...? The topic may as well be renamed "southern England vs central Texas"...

 

@MarcusH Corpus Christi is pretty far south. It is hardly central Texas. You may as well post up photos of the Rio Grande Valley if you are posting photos from Corpus Christi. That is down at 27N for crying out loud vs 50-51N over here. A difference of 24 degrees latitude. The difference between San Diego (31N) and Vancouver (49N) is way less at only 18 degrees latitude, yet you wouldn't dream of comparing San Diego with Vancouver. So as far as comparison go, southern Texas vs southern England is ridiculous. Although that also says a lot about what we are growing up here in the UK at this latitude!

[MarcusH]

3 minutes ago, Xenon said:

You need to drive a few more hours to RGV (the real south Texas), it's Corpus Christi on steroids....take all of the Washingtonia in Corpus Christi, Houston, etc and multiply by x100 and you get the Valley hahaha

 

That's amazing I thought there're tons of palms in CC you see them all over but this is the cherry on top of the cake. Wow that looks like Southwest Florida.  Beautiful scenery . 

[SeanK]

45 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

I assume you mean stuff like this

A lot of good pix in this thread. 

I've seen 'em on 1/2-acre lots, small houses, ratty palms overhead. Places that should have used Chamaerhops. W.robusta looks better with a tall architectural structure behind it.

[Little Tex]

14 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

They were planted very small about 15 years ago, but are over 30 foot in height today. The crowns are pretty full. Any central Texas challengers...?

the first google maps pin drop

[Xenon]

This is Galveston, nowhere near south Texas...nobody grows CIDP in South Texas 😛, disease killed them all like 40 years ago...and now it's killing them in Galveston and New Orleans (the two oldest cities on the Gulf of Mexico). Most of these CIDP date to around 1900-1920. No idea how much longer they will hang on with the disease killing them left and right. 

Bonus greatest unprotected Galveston zone push that has yet to be topped (when it's warm it's WARM)...the Carpentaria even flowered/set seed 

(thanks for the "gagpost" so I can spam pics without guilt LOL)

 

[Little Tex]

3 minutes ago, Xenon said:

This is Galveston, nowhere near south Texas...nobody grows CIDP in South Texas 😛, disease killed them all like 40 years ago...and now it's killing them in Galveston and New Orleans (the two oldest cities on the Gulf of Mexico). Most of these CIDP date to around 1900-1920. No idea how much longer they will hang on with the disease killing them left and right. 

Bonus greatest unprotected Galveston zone push that has yet to be topped (when it's warm it's WARM)...the Carpentaria even flowered/set seed 

(thanks for the "gagpost" so I can spam pics without guilt LOL)

 

you should put the pic of the king palm as well

[MarcusH]

15 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

 

Bloody hell, so it has devolved into this now has it. 

So central Texas will probably shoot down southern England in the Washie department. There's obviously an argument that the climate is much better favoured for them over there with more heat and sunshine, but at the same time we have only been planting them over here in the past 10-20 years really. So there isn't going to be any 'skydusters' over here, yet. 

However, remember there is a big Washingtonia stand at Ventnor with over 30 specimens now. I haven't seen them for nearly 2 years, so they will likely be even bigger now. They were planted very small about 15 years ago, but are over 30 foot in height today. The crowns are pretty full. Any central Texas challengers...? Please, no pics from Corpus Christi or the RGV! 

 

When I am off work next month, I will check on the big pure Filifera at Canvey, which is about 30 miles east of London. That thing absolutely dwarfs the house nowadays. It is probably about 35 foot in height and has probably flowered. Again, I am not convinced southern England washies beat central Texas washies, at least not yet anyway. Here is the biggest one I know of in London, which most people have already seen...

 

Dare I ask about southern England CIDP vs central Texas CIDP...? I will exclude the ones on the Isles of Scilly as they are nearly 100 footers now and will instantly beat anything coming out of central Texas. Those ones will possibly beat any in southern Texas even. I could post up some pretty big CIDP's from London and the south coast, so lets see the best that central Texas has to offer...? The topic may as well be renamed "southern England vs central Texas"...

 

@MarcusH Corpus Christi is pretty far south. It is hardly central Texas. You may as well post up photos of the Rio Grande Valley if you are posting photos from Corpus Christi. That is down at 27N for crying out loud vs 50-51N over here. A difference of 24 degrees latitude. The difference between San Diego (31N) and Vancouver (49N) is way less at only 18 degrees latitude, yet you wouldn't dream of comparing San Diego with Vancouver. So as far as comparison go, southern Texas vs southern England is ridiculous. Although that also says a lot about what we are growing up here in the UK at this latitude!

I knew you would come in like a thunderstorm.  While every Texan incl. Myself pretty much giggles about your constant claims we just let you believe what you're saying .  We all know the UK will be tropical filled with 50 to 100 ft Washies like we see in SoTeX in 20 years and there's no such thing as palmaggedon because that can happen anywhere else in the world but not in South UK we've heard that from you more than enough . I'm not even wanna challenge you because your few palms hiding in a city  that creates an artificial climate  is absolutely no competition to Texas at all but everybody has dreams .  I've been to the UK I guess you haven't been to Texas yet is that right ? 

[Axel Amsterdam]

27 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

?

It just made me laugh in a positive way to see a thread where Tx and the UK would compete for the best/biggest skydusters. 

You can take out Holland from the title because we are too cold to have anything meaningful to share here. I have never compared Holland to any other climate, i leave that to the UK climate experts here. I have only showed, by showing pictures not statistics, that large parts of the UK are way too cold to have CIDP’s and washingtonia’s longer term no matter how much climate data you throw at it, starting from the green and rural zones outside London. Growing palms and climate theory is not the same thing.

When it comes to palms in Holland i have documented a couple of exceptional survivors, including locations and where applicable protection measures in the Palms in Holland thread but that’s really about all there is. 

[Xenon]

5 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

you should put the pic of the king palm as well

eh, the royals and foxtails are comparatively more impressive for Galveston. Possible contenders are trunking Syagrus sancona and Satakentia too 

Houston had royals, foxtails, and Dypsis decaryi too

This Houston foxtail was planted in 2011 and died in 2017 (as shown in pic...wish I grabbed a pic while it was green 😩). I knew of some others that dated back to the early-mid 2000s that made it to 2017. Majesty and pygmy dates made it to 2021. 

[Little Tex]

4 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I knew you would come in like a thunderstorm.  While every Texan incl. Myself pretty much giggles about your constant claims we just let you believe what you're saying .  We all know the UK will be tropical filled with 50 to 100 ft Washies like we see in SoTeX in 20 years and there's no such thing as palmaggedon because that can happen anywhere else in the world but not in South UK we've heard that from you more than enough . I'm not even wanna challenge you because your few palms hiding in a city  that creates an artificial climate  is absolutely no competition to Texas at all but everybody has dreams .  I've been to the UK I guess you haven't been to Texas yet is that right ? 

Ive been to london twice, I liked the museums but it was kind of a gross city, not as bad as Baltimore or Philly, but I prefer NYC

[Foxpalms]

39 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

 

 

@MarcusH Corpus Christi is pretty far south. It is hardly central Texas. You may as well post up photos of the Rio Grande Valley if you are posting photos from Corpus Christi. That is down at 27N for crying out loud vs 50-51N over here. A difference of 24 degrees latitude. The difference between San Diego (31N) and Vancouver (49N) is way less at only 18 degrees latitude, yet you wouldn't dream of comparing San Diego with Vancouver. So as far as comparison go, southern Texas vs southern England is ridiculous. Although that also says a lot about what we are growing up here in the UK at this latitude!

A fair contender for southern Texas, which is still further north than southern Texas, would be the Canary islands and we all know who would win that!

[Teegurr]

37 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

 

Bloody hell, so it has devolved into this now has it. 

So central Texas will probably shoot down southern England in the Washie department. There's obviously an argument that the climate is much better favoured for them over there with more heat and sunshine, but at the same time we have only been planting them over here in the past 10-20 years really. So there isn't going to be any 'skydusters' over here, yet. 

However, remember there is a big Washingtonia stand at Ventnor with over 30 specimens now. I haven't seen them for nearly 2 years, so they will likely be even bigger now. They were planted very small about 15 years ago, but are over 30 foot in height today. The crowns are pretty full. Any central Texas challengers...? Please, no pics from Corpus Christi or the RGV! 

 

When I am off work next month, I will check on the big pure Filifera at Canvey, which is about 30 miles east of London. That thing absolutely dwarfs the house nowadays. It is probably about 35 foot in height and has probably flowered. Again, I am not convinced southern England washies beat central Texas washies, at least not yet anyway. Here is the biggest one I know of in London, which most people have already seen...

 

Dare I ask about southern England CIDP vs central Texas CIDP...? I will exclude the ones on the Isles of Scilly as they are nearly 100 footers now and will instantly beat anything coming out of central Texas. Those ones will possibly beat any in southern Texas even. I could post up some pretty big CIDP's from London and the south coast, so lets see the best that central Texas has to offer...? The topic may as well be renamed "southern England vs central Texas"...

 

@MarcusH Corpus Christi is pretty far south. It is hardly central Texas. You may as well post up photos of the Rio Grande Valley if you are posting photos from Corpus Christi. That is down at 27N for crying out loud vs 50-51N over here. A difference of 24 degrees latitude. The difference between San Diego (31N) and Vancouver (49N) is way less at only 18 degrees latitude, yet you wouldn't dream of comparing San Diego with Vancouver. So as far as comparison go, southern Texas vs southern England is ridiculous. Although that also says a lot about what we are growing up here in the UK at this latitude!

Here's one in my town. Not the best angle (from google maps), but it's pretty tall.

[UK_Palms]

1 minute ago, Little Tex said:

the first google maps pin drop

 

You got an exact location on them that can be checked? I want to make sure they are actually inland central Texas and haven't been carted in big from the RGV or SoCal in recent years lol. Have they actually been in-situ there all that time? If so, that is pretty impressive.

Also I did say that I think central Texas wins out on the Washingtonia. There are just too many of them being planted there and they have been around for probably 100 years in places, unlike here (first Washingtonia weren't planted on Isle of Wight until mid 2000's). They just seem to do pretty damn well in Texas in general too.

 

5 minutes ago, Xenon said:

This is Galveston, nowhere near south Texas...nobody grows CIDP in South Texas 😛, disease killed them all like 40 years ago...and now it's killing them in Galveston and New Orleans (the two oldest cities on the Gulf of Mexico). Most of these CIDP date to around 1900-1920. No idea how much longer they will hang on with the disease killing them left and right. 

Bonus greatest unprotected Galveston zone push that has yet to be topped (when it's warm it's WARM)...the Carpentaria even flowered/set seed 

(thanks for the "gagpost" so I can spam pics without guilt LOL)

 

Those are impressive. A similar size to our BIG ones on the Isles of Scilly, although Galveston is also right on the coast and at 29.1N latitude, which is quite a bit further south than San Diego even lol. So about 21-22 degrees latitude closer to the equator than the ones I am posting. That is a HUGE difference. Here are the ones on the Scilly Isles (50N) just off the coast of Cornwall. They were planted tiny sometime around 1890 I think. They get wind blasted to hell there and the crowns take a right battering. It's one of the windiest spots in the whole of the UK, especially during winter. It is also the mildest spot however. The last frost was over 5 years ago now. The last January frost was a staggering 27 years ago!

[Teegurr]

1 minute ago, Foxpalms said:

A fair contender for southern Texas, which is still further north than southern Texas, would be the Canary islands and we all know who would win that!

Yeah, it's cuz of those darn great plains with nothing between us and the north pole except a barbed wire fence. No mountains, no large sea anywhere close.

[Teegurr]

1 minute ago, UK_Palms said:

 

You got an exact location on them that can be checked? I want to make sure they are actually inland central Texas and haven't been carted in big from the RGV or SoCal in recent years lol. Have they actually been in-situ there all that time? If so, that is pretty impressive.

Also I did say that I think central Texas wins out on the Washingtonia. There are just too many of them being planted there and they have been around for probably 100 years in places, unlike here (first Washingtonia weren't planted on Isle of Wight until mid 2000's). They just seem to do pretty damn well in Texas in general too.

 

 

Those are impressive. A similar size to our BIG ones on the Isles of Scilly, although Galveston is also right on the coast and at 29.1N latitude, which is quite a bit further south than San Diego even lol. So about 21-22 degrees latitude closer to the equator than the ones I am posting. That is a HUGE difference. Here are the ones on the Scilly Isles (50N) just off the coast of Cornwall. They were planted tiny sometime around 1890 I think. They get wind blasted to hell there and the crowns take a right battering. It's one of the windiest spots in the whole of the UK, especially during winter. It is also the mildest spot however. The last frost was over 5 years ago now. The last January frost was a staggering 27 years ago!

Yeah, for sure the UK is much more mild for its latitude, maybe the most mild for its latitude, no one is arguing against that. 

[Axel Amsterdam]

5 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

A fair contender for southern Texas, which is still further north than southern Texas, would be the Canary islands and we all know who would win that!

And there you go, changing the location for new climate comparisons unrelated to the UK. 

[Xenon]

The coconuts in the Canaries look similar or better than the coconuts in southeastern China/far northern Vietnam below the Tropic of Cancer haha

[Foxpalms]

Just now, Axel Amsterdam said:

And there you go, changing the location for new climate comparisons unrelated to the UK. 

Can you not take a joke? The same could be said about changing it from central Texas to southern Texas, that's why I posted it...

[Little Tex]

9 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

Have they actually been in-situ there all that time?

They are in west Houston, there are much better ones of course, these specific ones are probably an hour and forty five minutes from the bay and a little over two hours to the coast.

[Teegurr]

This is about as good as it gets for CIDP here.

[MarcusH]

6 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

A fair contender for southern Texas, which is still further north than southern Texas, would be the Canary islands and we all know who would win that!

LMAO you Brits are a special kind of folks. Now we're taking the Canary Islands into the game I might as well post some pictures of South Florida , Southern California and Hawaii so we have a comparison again.  I don't know what you guys over there trying to proof ? We're happy that you can grow palms but ya'll make it sound like you have the best climate for palms while there is absolutely no long history of palm growth in the UK I'm talking about  50,100 years plus. Even you have nicer looking CIDPS overall but I guess everybody else who lives in warm climates that palms look kind of weird in cold climates between some northern European trees , gloomy rainy climate , cold weather .  Palms usually represent warm climates and your climate is definitely not . That's like parking a new Ferrari in the ghetto.  Looks odd.  Us Southerners are definitely not jealous about your great climate. We know what we have here.  

[Xenon]

I pass by these palms many times in College Station/Bryan. There are a few really old fat filifera (pre-80s) too, don't remember the streets though. The first pair are notably more robusta admixed for the area. This is further north than Austin

2007

2022

2007

2022

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Xenon

[MarcusH]

31 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

Ive been to london twice, I liked the museums but it was kind of a gross city, not as bad as Baltimore or Philly, but I prefer NYC

My sister lives near London . Not a huge fan of this city either . 

[Arecaceus]

19 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I knew you would come in like a thunderstorm.  While every Texan incl. Myself pretty much giggles about your constant claims we just let you believe what you're saying .  We all know the UK will be tropical filled with 50 to 100 ft Washies like we see in SoTeX in 20 years and there's no such thing as palmaggedon because that can happen anywhere else in the world but not in South UK we've heard that from you more than enough . I'm not even wanna challenge you because your few palms hiding in a city  that creates an artificial climate  is absolutely no competition to Texas at all but everybody has dreams .  I've been to the UK I guess you haven't been to Texas yet is that right ? 

Not taking sides, but I oppose the claim that palmageddons can happen anywhere (the way they happen in the US). The extreme cold blasts continental (especially East) North America gets reaching far into the South are not occuring in Europe. While the South of the US has a better latitude and a better climate for most palms it can get sudden, extreme cold snaps very far down. Cold blasts in Europe affect mostly the North and the East. Sometimes even to the far West and down to the Mediterranean but they are much less severe. There is just not enough continental mass to create those situations. And Western winds are predominant (thus comming from the sea). Surely even the Rhineland area, the UK and even the South of France can get very cold temperatures every once in a while but they are generally never as cold as most of the ones measured during North American (East) cold blasts. The issues for us here is much more the rest of winter with cool temperatures and rain. Winters here like in 2009/10 or 2021 can harm and kill many palms for sure but those are not complete wipe outs and here we all also rely on smaller areas that are mild enough. I'm not saying that this makes the Southern US a bad place to plant palms and I don't want to let Southern England compete with Texas or anything. I'm just trying to say that there is big difference in those cold events. If you want to compare cold blasts in Western Europe, they are more comparable (not completely) with the ones in the PNW.

[Xenon]

Found some of my old pics from Bryan/College Station. These were taken January-March 2022

 

 

 

 

[Foxpalms]

@Axel AmsterdamThe disagreement was about syagrus romanzoffianana being able to grow in warmer parts of the UK initially, then Marcus said syagrus romanzoffianana can only grow in tropical climates, or along the lines of that and can't grow in the UK and are not hardy. Which is when I pointed out parts of Texas that grow queen palms can get colder than here. The climate comparison was more about freezes, I have never tried to compare the averages. Secondly every time I have said syagrus romanzoffianana, archontophoenix or howea forsteriana should be tried and planted in warm parts of the south coast you have tried to argue against it. The so called "theoretical possibilities" as you called it. You kept posting photos of failures of syagrus and one archontophoenix failure, in still mild but not the mildest areas I was referring to try and change my opinion, that I shouldn't think it's a good idea to to try archontophoenix cunninghamiana, howea forsteriana and syagrus romanzoffianana there. Just because in Ventnor (zone 10a) there are not currently archontophoenix that I'm aware of, it does mean it isn't possible. In my opinion if you disagree that's fine but there no point in trying to change my opinion and then asking for proof of palms when you know I have said they should plant them there not that archontophoenix for example thrive all over the south coast...

[MarcusH]

8 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Not taking sides, but I oppose the claim that palmageddons can happen anywhere (the way they happen in the US). The extreme cold blasts continental (especially East) North America gets reaching far into the South are not occuring in Europe. While the South of the US has a better latitude and a better climate for most palms it can get sudden, extreme cold snaps very far down. Cold blasts in Europe affect mostly the North and the East. Sometimes even to the far West and down to the Mediterranean but they are much less severe. There is just not enough continental mass to create those situations. And Western winds are predominant (thus comming from the sea). Surely even the Rhineland area, the UK and even the South of France can get very cold temperatures every once in a while but they are generally never as cold as most of the ones measured during North American (East) cold blasts. The issues for us here is much more the rest of winter with cool temperatures and rain. Winters here like in 2009/10 or 2021 can harm and kill many palms for sure but those are not complete wipe outs and here we all also rely on smaller areas that are mild enough. I'm not saying that this makes the Southern US a bad place to plant palms and I don't want to let Southern England compete with Texas or anything. I'm just trying to say that there is big difference in those cold events. If you want to compare cold blasts in Western Europe, they are more comparable (not completely) with the ones in the PNW.

I lived 4 decades in a city called Paderborn which is 2 hrs away from Duesseldorf.  Before I moved here to TX in 2021 we had a few winters with temperatures of 10F and lower within a decade and Duesseldorf is only a few degrees warmer I doubt Germany has any potential for succeful palm growth it's too cold for too long.  This is all theory you come up with nobody can predict the climate of the next 30 years not even you.  

[EJPalm05]

Sorry to interupt but this is kind of turning into an argument!

[Xerarch]

While I don’t care to take any sides on any debate, I’ll take this opportunity to shamelessly post some palm pics of Corpus Christi. All are post-Palmaggedon except for Royals.