Vancouver Island after 2 bad winters - Winners and Losers

[ShadyDan]

Thought I'd post an update now that spring is here. After coming off a bad winter in 2021-2022, we had ANOTHER bad one this year. The absolute lows got to -9.4C at my house, but the cold was much shorter duration compared to 21/22. Nothing I had outside in the ground was protected and here are some of the results:

WINNERS!

Trachycarpus fortunei - Duh. Doesn't care about cold weather, in fact it laughs at it. Flower spathes are on their way out as we speak.


Butia odorata - Came out pretty good considering. Some tips and fronds were burnt (probably 30% overall), but the emerging spear is still solid and green. Looks a little ratty right now, but even in my climate it throws out new fronds at a decent pace during the growing season and should look fine again by late summer.


Chamaerops humilis 'green form' -  No issues here. The bigger ones in my neighborhood all look fine as well.


Chamaerops humilis 'blue form' - Some tip burn, but otherwise fine. Really need to trim back the aggressively growing Ceanothus beside it after it blooms.

 

Sabal palmetto - Surprisingly looks more or less fine. A slow grower, but I don't care since it can shake off terrible winters with ease.


THE SO-SO:

Sabal minor - This was a big surprise, considering how well the palmetto did. Lots of burn and looks pretty ratty overall. This minor is in a favorable microsite next to my house too, not sure why it fussed so much (maybe bad genetics?). New growth is green and solid. I'll give this palm a second chance and see if its better behaved this summer...


THE LOSERS (sorry no pictures, photographic evidence of dead things makes me sad)

Phoenix theophrasti - Turned crispy as soon as the temperature dropped in December and spear pulled a few weeks later. Definitely not one for this climate.

(BxJ)xS - This one really made me sad. It pulled through 21/22 with minimal damage and looked OK for a long time after the December freeze this year. After our first few truly 'warm" days earlier this month, it started to shrivel up and spear pulled. Oh well, live and learn.

FRESH VICTIMS FOR PUNISHMENT

Livistona nitida - Planted this palm I grew from seed last week. Lets see how it does.


I also have a big hole where the (BxJ)xS was, thinking I'll either put a Jubaea or Sabal causiarum there. Both I've grown from seed and are quite small (1 gallon). Or maybe I'll just plant another citrus or feijoa. Got to weigh my options and priorities first.

Anyways, hope this provides some valuable information for other PNW growers. Happy spring! 

[Arecaceus]

I'm impressed with the Butia. -9.4°C is brutal. I have one about the same size we also had a bad winter but not as cold as yours apperently. First year in the ground, looking flawless after the winter. I was a bit worried first but still not showing any signs of damage. I was a bit disappointed that your L. nitida was only planted now, because I thought it had survived the winter. 😂 I have one at a similiar size I'm thinking to plant out this year. And believe it or not but I also have S. causiarum grown from seed I'm thinking about to plant out. In a pot they did good outside this winter but I'm still not sure because they might take some time to take off at our latitude. Trachies and Chamaerops shrug off any winter I feel like.

[Brandon James]

I had similar damage to my sabal minors here, our worst cold snap was -14f with the highs the following day in single digits. I covered plants in that cold with a big comforter over the usual frost cloth. 

 

no spear pull, and now that it’s springtime I trimmed off the dead/ dry fronds. One plant ☝️was almost completely defoliated. Only the newly emerging spear survived. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Brandon James

[Las Palmas Norte]

You did good. We've had 3 bad winters in a row

18 hours ago, ShadyDan said:

Trachycarpus fortunei - Duh. Doesn't care about cold weather, in fact it laughs at it

Two dead (15 gallon) Windmills. Two dead at my neighbors place. Some look great and others, even 20' Windmills with heavy crown damage (should recover).

[ShadyDan]

31 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

You did good. We've had 3 bad winters in a row

Two dead (15 gallon) Windmills. Two dead at my neighbors place. Some look great and others, even 20' Windmills with heavy crown damage (should recover).

Yikes, North Island must have been hit pretty hard. Not a single windmill I've seen in Nanoose / Parksville / Nanaimo has a scratch on them.

[Chester B]

If I run down the list of dead or dying palms so far what I see is this:

3 or 4 Chamaedorea radicalis dead  - I have the same number of survivors

2 Sabal causiarum dead - one on life support

Sabal uresana - dead

Trithrinax acanthacoma - dead

1 Green Chamaerops humilis major spear pull - 2 other green are fine

1 Blue Chamaerops - lots of burn on the fronds but seems ok otherwise - 2 others are fine

Mule palm  - one dead, one looks good

Smaller Butia - major spear pull

Medium B eriospatha - turning brown, spear is crispy

1 Small Washingtonia robusta - all fronds but 1 turned brown and spear is good.  It's started growing again even though its been cold

All the other palms, about 90 of them are fine.  But the Trachys are a mess, some very yellow and lots of bent fronds from our record snow storm.

All the ones that look the best are non Trachycarpus if you can believe it.

 

[Las Palmas Norte]

4 hours ago, ShadyDan said:

Yikes, North Island must have been hit pretty hard. Not a single windmill I've seen in Nanoose / Parksville / Nanaimo has a scratch on them.

-10°C ( 11°F) low. Numerous nights in the -4°C to -7°C. Snow, frost and lower than average precipitation in the Comox Valley central island. Like you, I never saw damage to palms even in colder winters in Lantzville /  Nanaimo. In '08 / '09 winter we had -14°C one night and there was about 50% frond damage that year. I'm stumped.

[Las Palmas Norte]

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

If I run down the list of dead or dying palms so far what I see is this:

3 or 4 Chamaedorea radicalis dead  - I have the same number of survivors

2 Sabal causiarum dead - one on life support

Sabal uresana - dead

Trithrinax acanthacoma - dead

1 Green Chamaerops humilis major spear pull - 2 other green are fine

1 Blue Chamaerops - lots of burn on the fronds but seems ok otherwise - 2 others are fine

Mule palm  - one dead, one looks good

Smaller Butia - major spear pull

Medium B eriospatha - turning brown, spear is crispy

1 Small Washingtonia robusta - all fronds but 1 turned brown and spear is good.  It's started growing again even though its been cold

All the other palms, about 90 of them are fine.  But the Trachys are a mess, some very yellow and lots of bent fronds from our record snow storm.

All the ones that look the best are non Trachycarpus if you can believe it.

 

That's a long list brother. Times like this does make a person wonder.

[Allen]

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

If I run down the list of dead or dying palms so far what I see is this:

3 or 4 Chamaedorea radicalis dead  - I have the same number of survivors

2 Sabal causiarum dead - one on life support

Sabal uresana - dead

Trithrinax acanthacoma - dead

1 Green Chamaerops humilis major spear pull - 2 other green are fine

1 Blue Chamaerops - lots of burn on the fronds but seems ok otherwise - 2 others are fine

Mule palm  - one dead, one looks good

Smaller Butia - major spear pull

Medium B eriospatha - turning brown, spear is crispy

1 Small Washingtonia robusta - all fronds but 1 turned brown and spear is good.  It's started growing again even though its been cold

All the other palms, about 90 of them are fine.  But the Trachys are a mess, some very yellow and lots of bent fronds from our record snow storm.

All the ones that look the best are non Trachycarpus if you can believe it.

 

You're really getting the list of palms.

[Chester B]

I didn't think it was that bad, but I've had time to come to peace with it.  Prior to this year I think I've only lost a couple of palms, so this is about 6x that.  The only one that is a sizeable palm is the B eriospatha, the rest are still relatively small.

Preliminary list of survivors - I won't say success until June

35-40 Trachy fortunei - no real surprise here

2 Trachy waggie

Trachy nainital

2 other Trachys (unknown).  One has been particularly sensitive to cold but shows no sign of damage this year

9 Needle palms

5 Chamaerops

2 Washingtonia robusta - one looks really good

Sabal rosei

Sabal Birmingham

Sabal brazoriensis

3 Sabal Louisiana

4 Chamaedorea radicalis

6 Sabal minor

Butia odorata

Brahea armata

Livistona nitida - This thing looks great

Mule Palm

 

non palm survivors

2 Green Cordylines

2 Cycas taitungensis

Cycas panzhouiensis was doing well but the rabbits ate it again, but I expect it flush out soon

Cycas  guizhouensis x revoluta - some green left in the fronds

All of my citrus

 

I have a ton of hardier palms that are getting close to the size for planting.  I've already planted a decent sized Palmetto and have another good sized Louisiana that will be going in real soon.

I learned a lot this year, and am ok with the few casualties all things considered.  You should see my Nandinas, half of them got torched, so that says something.  Most of my gardens are quite hardy so a few losses here and there isn't all that noticeable, unless I were to lose a mature palm.  Thankfully that has yet to happen.

 

[Allen]

6 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I learned a lot this year, and am ok with the few casualties all things considered.  You should see my Nandinas, half of them got torched, so that says something.  Most of my gardens are quite hardy so a few losses here and there isn't all that noticeable, unless I were to lose a mature palm.  Thankfully that has yet to happen.

Our city/neighborhood is devastated by cold losses.  I'd say 1/3 - 1/2 of bushes etc. in everyone's yards are dead or severely hurt from the cold.

[Chester B]

4 minutes ago, Allen said:

Our city/neighborhood is devastated by cold losses.  I'd say 1/3 - 1/2 of bushes etc. in everyone's yards are dead or severely hurt from the cold.

I believe it.   I have plants that I think might be dead that are rated to 5F.

I know around here a very large percentage of the agaves were killed, and old ones too. 

Not too many people grow Butias here, but I've heard from a few people and none of theirs made it.  So far I have the only one left that I know of, but none were the size of mine.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Chester B

[ShadyDan]

Well I must of cursed myself with my optimism yesterday, guess we can put the Butia in the "loser" pile now. I swear the spear was solid when I tugged it yesterday, but today it popped right out with minimal resistance. 2 days of 15C+ weather loosened things up pretty good I guess...

I am pretty sad about this one, even more so then the mule. I've had this Butia for 5 years now and its never had any issues. Pulled a total of 5 full fronds off once the spear came out, pretty safe to say its a goner.

[Arecaceus]

15 minutes ago, ShadyDan said:

Well I must of cursed myself with my optimism yesterday, guess we can put the Butia in the "loser" pile now. I swear the spear was solid when I tugged it yesterday, but today it popped right out with minimal resistance. 2 days of 15C+ weather loosened things up pretty good I guess...

I am pretty sad about this one, even more so then the mule. I've had this Butia for 5 years now and its never had any issues. Pulled a total of 5 full fronds off once the spear came out, pretty safe to say its a goner.

Oh noooo! 😭 You sure it's a goner? The pull doesn't look too deep. I had a similiar experience a couple of days ago with a T. princeps. looked completely fine even the leaves. I checked the spear several times and one day on my routine of doing so spear came out with 2 upcoming leaves.

[ShadyDan]

35 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Oh noooo! 😭 You sure it's a goner? The pull doesn't look too deep. I had a similiar experience a couple of days ago with a T. princeps. looked completely fine even the leaves. I checked the spear several times and one day on my routine of doing so spear came out with 2 upcoming leaves.

Oh she’s deep. Pretty sure it’s not coming back after this. I can see with a flashlight in the hole that it pulled right to the growing point. Even if it’s technically “alive” I’m sure it won’t recover before next winter in our cool climate. 

[Arecaceus]

4 minutes ago, ShadyDan said:

Oh she’s deep. Pretty sure it’s not coming back after this. I can see with a flashlight in the hole that it pulled right to the growing point. Even if it’s technically “alive” I’m sure it won’t recover before next winter in our cool climate. 

Ok if it's down to the ground then its meristem is probably completely gone. True pain but at this size -9.4°C is just too much too handle. But keep your head up! After the pain there always comes back the enthusiasm.

[Meangreen94z]

6 hours ago, Chester B said:

If I run down the list of dead or dying palms so far what I see is this:

3 or 4 Chamaedorea radicalis dead  - I have the same number of survivors

2 Sabal causiarum dead - one on life support

Sabal uresana - dead

Trithrinax acanthacoma - dead

1 Green Chamaerops humilis major spear pull - 2 other green are fine

1 Blue Chamaerops - lots of burn on the fronds but seems ok otherwise - 2 others are fine

Mule palm  - one dead, one looks good

Smaller Butia - major spear pull

Medium B eriospatha - turning brown, spear is crispy

1 Small Washingtonia robusta - all fronds but 1 turned brown and spear is good.  It's started growing again even though its been cold

All the other palms, about 90 of them are fine.  But the Trachys are a mess, some very yellow and lots of bent fronds from our record snow storm.

All the ones that look the best are non Trachycarpus if you can believe it.

 

It’s not even April, it’s a bit premature to write palms off? How big were they? What was the low temperature? 

[Chester B]

On 3/29/2023 at 6:14 PM, Meangreen94z said:

It’s not even April, it’s a bit premature to write palms off? How big were they? What was the low temperature? 

Two nights didn’t 19f, one daily high at 23F with steady dry wind in the 30-40 mph range. Wind lasted 2.5 days. Total freeze duration 60 hours. Mostly smaller palms killed. They look very small in the pics because most of the fronds are gone. 
 

Medium sized green Chamaerops spear pulled bad but it may survive. Decent sized Butia the older fronds turning a rust color and beer fronds getting that crispy look. 
 

in my climate all these smaller ones will never recover. 

[Chester B]

[Chester B]

Yet a small Washingtonia robust has survived and is pushing new growth. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Chester B

[Chester B]

On 3/29/2023 at 5:02 PM, ShadyDan said:

Oh she’s deep. Pretty sure it’s not coming back after this. I can see with a flashlight in the hole that it pulled right to the growing point. Even if it’s technically “alive” I’m sure it won’t recover before next winter in our cool climate. 

My small looks exactly the same.  It's a bad one, but I'm going to wait and see.

[Meangreen94z]

15 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Actually, it’s the opposite. With the growth point subterranean, it won’t drop below the point of freezing due to snow or ice forming a barrier. Species that typically wouldn’t survive those temperatures with the growth point above ground, came back during the 2021 freeze in Texas, and this past freeze last December in Texas..

[Chester B]

Forgot to include the largest causiarum. No spear pull yet but it’s black at the base. Like I said if this one is alive it won’t grow enough in my climate to recover for next winter. I don’t get the duration of heat throughout the year like you would in Texas. I have about 4 months, 5 if I’m lucky of months with temps in the 80s or higher, but I have cool nights. This one hasn’t been damaged by winter before. But then again my winters are usually quite mild so any sort of damage is uncommon. 

[Meangreen94z]

19°F shouldn’t kill Sabal causiarum, there is one at John Fairey Garden that came back from two nights of 6°F. I would wait atleast until late July to clear out palms, but you’re welcome to do as you wish.

[Chester B]

11 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

19°F shouldn’t kill Sabal causiarum, there is one at John Fairey Garden that came back from two nights of 6°F. I would wait atleast until late July to clear out palms, but you’re welcome to do as you wish.

My 19F is totally different from the rest of the country aside from Washington state, never mind the complicating fact that things stay wet in my climate for almost 5 of the coldest months of the year.  That's why we have to treat growing zones as a guideline.   I wish my 19F was the same as say north Florida but it simply isn't.  Most of the palms in the pics aren't coming back, but this larger causiarum I would love to see it recover, and it will be given a chance.  Anything that has green on it will remain until July.  I have lots of replacements including a few things I haven't tried yet that I have high hopes for.  I'm thankful for what survived including a few new to me palms last year, so I can treat it as a learning experience.  

[Las Palmas Norte]

34 minutes ago, Chester B said:

My 19F is totally different from the rest of the country aside from Washington state, never mind the complicating fact that things stay wet in my climate for almost 5 of the coldest months of the year. 

That is probably one of the truest statements that many other gardeners can't relate to. Same applies to much of SW British Columbia, particularly western sections. Central BC is a different story again.

[Allen]

8 hours ago, Chester B said:

My 19F is totally different from the rest of the country aside from Washington state, never mind the complicating fact that things stay wet in my climate for almost 5 of the coldest months of the year.  That's why we have to treat growing zones as a guideline.   I wish my 19F was the same as say north Florida but it simply isn't.  Most of the palms in the pics aren't coming back, but this larger causiarum I would love to see it recover, and it will be given a chance.  Anything that has green on it will remain until July.  I have lots of replacements including a few things I haven't tried yet that I have high hopes for.  I'm thankful for what survived including a few new to me palms last year, so I can treat it as a learning experience.  

For us both but you a little more so these exotic Sabals if they take a hit before they get really big (Trunked) can take forever to come back as you said because they are only growing 3 fronds/year normally.   They have the best shot if protected so they don't lose fronds till they get large which could be a long time.  In contrast a Trachy is growing roughly 12 fronds/year which basically means for us in cooler areas they are growing approximately 4 times as fast.

[Trustandi]

My damaged palms so far:

Livistona nitida spear pulled and most likely dead. 

Butia eriospatha. One of the middle frond started to dry out,  the spear is still firm. It could cause by mole burrowing under my butia. I hope it will recover.

Washingtonia filibusta, one small one from hd store and the 15g sizes from Lowes. They are going to recover.

 

 

[Chester B]

The Butia is showing classic cold damage in our area.  I've seen this three times now over the last 2 years.  

[Las Palmas Norte]

Every single time I have seen spear pull on a Butia, death. Not enough early heat here to get it growing and out pace the damage.

[Chester B]

My small one spear pulled last year and recovered very quickly.  It did it again this spring, but this time it seems worse to me.

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Has anybody tried using a circle of fence wire cage  (Think cattle panels or 2" x 4" wire fencing) around their palms maybe even filled with leaves and covered with clear plastic for the worst of your winter?  Or if you have a lot of snow maybe a fence wire tunnel covered with plastic. Easy to erect and take down.  I have used something like that before and used a shallow ditch in the ground around the plant and lapped the bottom edge of the plastic not just to the ground but over the ditch to let rain fill.  So you end up with a shallow water filled plastic lined ditch around the cage that holds the plastic down.  At the Raleigh N.C. fairgrounds a grower who had access used to use the wire and leaves for bananas and was able to overwinter even some temperature sensitive banana plants.  I don't think he even used the plastic. The trunk was saved but not the banana leaves. Then next spring the plants had a great spring start when it was all removed. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Jeff zone 8 N.C.

[Allen]

1 hour ago, Jeff zone 8 N.C. said:

Has anybody tried using a circle of fence wire cage  (Think cattle panels or 2" x 4" wire fencing) around their palms maybe even filled with leaves and covered with clear plastic for the worst of your winter?  Or if you have a lot of snow maybe a fence wire tunnel covered with plastic. Easy to erect and take down.  I have used something like that before and used a shallow ditch in the ground around the plant and lapped the bottom edge of the plastic not just to the ground but over the ditch to let rain fill.  So you end up with a shallow water filled plastic lined ditch around the cage that holds the plastic down.  At the Raleigh N.C. fairgrounds a grower who had access used to use the wire and leaves for bananas and was able to overwinter even some temperature sensitive banana plants.  I don't think he even used the plastic. The trunk was saved but not the banana leaves. Then next spring the plants had a great spring start when it was all removed. 

This is called a leaf cage and is commonly used for a little protection.  I use this type setup with the fencing but heat the inside usually instead of leaves.  

[Las Palmas Norte]

2 hours ago, Jeff zone 8 N.C. said:

... At the Raleigh N.C. fairgrounds a grower who had access used to use the wire and leaves for bananas and was able to overwinter even some temperature sensitive banana plants.  I don't think he even used the plastic. The trunk was saved but not the banana leaves. Then next spring the plants had a great spring start when it was all removed. 

I used to do that for Musa basjoo to keep the pseudostems from freezing down. I don't bother anymore, Never did it with a palm.

[ryjohn]

That’s no saw palmetto (Serenoa repens) in the original post’s pictures.  That is a Sabal of some sort, likely Sabal minor.

Edited April 5, 2023 by ryjohn

[Ryland]

@Trustandi I hope your Butia is ok.  I am having exactly the same experience with mine and it's unfortunately getting worse.  I've still got a solid green spear, but one after the other the fronds are going crispy and brown, starting in the centre.  Hoping the spear pulls through.

@ShadyDan and @Chester B I'm sad to see your Butias also looking rough.  I've been filled with dismay over the last week to watch mine gradually decline when it had been completely green and flawless looking until about mid-March.  It seems like we had similarly bad winters, mine didn't have quite the severity of freeze (down to -6.4ºC/20ºF) but the duration was very long, and it was early December then followed by many more freeze events.  In all 29 nights below freezing for the winter, compared with last year 9 nights below freezing and a minimum temperature of -2.2ºC/28ºF.

Hoping to see updates in the next few months with some survivors.

Here is mine this morning - it was worse looking a few days ago but I've already removed the innermost frond which was completely dead and trimmed a few brown tips.  You can see behind the green spear, a frond that was just opening off the spear has gone crispy in the last week.

[Chester B]

8 hours ago, Ryland said:

@Trustandi I hope your Butia is ok.  I am having exactly the same experience with mine and it's unfortunately getting worse.  I've still got a solid green spear, but one after the other the fronds are going crispy and brown, starting in the centre.  Hoping the spear pulls through.

@ShadyDan and @Chester B I'm sad to see your Butias also looking rough.  I've been filled with dismay over the last week to watch mine gradually decline when it had been completely green and flawless looking until about mid-March.  It seems like we had similarly bad winters, mine didn't have quite the severity of freeze (down to -6.4ºC/20ºF) but the duration was very long, and it was early December then followed by many more freeze events.  In all 29 nights below freezing for the winter, compared with last year 9 nights below freezing and a minimum temperature of -2.2ºC/28ºF.

Hoping to see updates in the next few months with some survivors.

Here is mine this morning - it was worse looking a few days ago but I've already removed the innermost frond which was completely dead and trimmed a few brown tips.  You can see behind the green spear, a frond that was just opening off the spear has gone crispy in the last week.

Mine was green and then I noticed some bronzing on the older fronds, after we got some warmer weather.  This continued rapidly over the next few days, then the spear started turning crispy.  It had that freeze dried look and completely desiccated within a few days.  I had been treating with copper fungicide.  Once the spears turned crispy, I trimmed them close to the trunk so I could put a plastic covering over it to prevent rain from getting in the hole.  Next the newest fronds started desiccating so at this point I had pretty much lost all hope.  Yesterday I went to check on it again and this time the spears pulled.  Pulled bad the hole is huge, I'm calling it and will be removing it next week.  A smaller one that spear pulled last year did the same again this year.  No sign of any damage other than I could see some fungus in the spears.  That one pulled pretty quickly but it was worse than last year, so I'm not sure if it will recover again.

 

 

[Las Palmas Norte]

8 hours ago, Ryland said:

Here is mine this morning - it was worse looking a few days ago but I've already removed the innermost frond which was completely dead and trimmed a few brown tips.  You can see behind the green spear, a frond that was just opening off the spear has gone crispy in the last week.

Crazy. Many threads here show countless massive palms of all kinds in England. Maybe Butia isn't one of 'em, but check those out and find a genus that'll work there for you. 

[southpacific73]

Sad to see everyone's losses but hopefully we have a better winter this year with La Nina kicking in.

For me the  Winners are all my

Trachys which include Nainital, Nova, Latisectus, Takil, Wagnerianus x Princeps,  Fortunei x Princeps

Butia Eriospatha

Chamaedorea Radicalis only 1 left of several that I planted

Jubaea x Butia Yatay

Trachycarpus Martianus all in pots

Couple of Sabal Lisas and Louisanas in pots

 

The DEAD List

Butia Yatay x Jubaea

Washingtonia Robusta

Jubaea

Unknow Sabal

Mule Palm

Chamaerops Humilis

Needle Palm

Livistona Decora in pot

Sabal Riverside turning brown but no spear pull ?

These last 3 la Nina winters were brutal especially the winter of 2021 which nuked or damaged a lot of my palms and fruit plants including my citrus collection, Feijoa, Schefflera Taiwaniana, and Loquat. I also got damage to my Naintal this year which always is unfazed by winter. I'm almost ready to give up but you guys inspire me to keep going. Trialing this year will be Livistona Nitida, Sabal Brazoria, Brahea Armata x Brandegeei maybe if it puts some growth this year.  

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by southpacific73

[Chester B]

1 hour ago, southpacific73 said:

I'm almost ready to give up but you guys inspire me to keep going.

Before this winter I've lost virtually nothing, a couple of unhealthy palms, so I am undeterred.  I've had about 10% loss, so really it's not all that much, considering the last couple of winters.  Still a few things I want to try out, no need to be discouraged.