How much space for Cereus jamacaru? Cram it in?

[Rivera]

I'm looking at replacing a Yucca rostrata that isn't performing well in my climate. The yucca is just a couple feet from a shared fence.

I will keep the small Cereus in a pot for a while to see if it's a decent grower here in my cool summers, but I really don't know what to expect in terms of its growth rate or the amount of space I ought to allow it. 

I always attempt my own research, but photos from other climates and the associated descriptions don't necessarily translate well to what will happen in my heavily maritime influenced SF garden. 

Most aloes perform pretty well here, some growing a bit slower than they might in coastal SoCal. Part of the reason I'm asking is because there's a young Aloidendron tongaense a few feet away from where the cereus would go.

I will see for myself, but thoughts would be welcome. I like to situate plants close, just not TOO close.

[Silas_Sancona]

10 hours ago, Rivera said:

I'm looking at replacing a Yucca rostrata that isn't performing well in my climate. The yucca is just a couple feet from a shared fence.

I will keep the small Cereus in a pot for a while to see if it's a decent grower here in my cool summers, but I really don't know what to expect in terms of its growth rate or the amount of space I ought to allow it. 

I always attempt my own research, but photos from other climates and the associated descriptions don't necessarily translate well to what will happen in my heavily maritime influenced SF garden. 

Most aloes perform pretty well here, some growing a bit slower than they might in coastal SoCal. Part of the reason I'm asking is because there's a young Aloidendron tongaense a few feet away from where the cereus would go.

I will see for myself, but thoughts would be welcome. I like to situate plants close, just not TOO close.

How it will perform there aside, you should be able to control width fairly easily by cutting off any stems going in whatever direction you don't want them to go ..forcing more upright growth as a pose to spreading out..   Height-wise, they can get tall ..say in the 10-15ft range, maybe taller given enough space in an ideal area..

If it does well there, would think A. tongaense would eventually get fairly large / be a bit harder to keep corralled, compared to the Cereus. Have seen relatively larger Organ Pipes // some other Cereus kept " slim "  ...say to a dozen or so stems.. 

[Rivera]

9 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

How it will perform there aside, you should be able to control width fairly easily by cutting off any stems going in whatever direction you don't want them to go ..forcing more upright growth as a pose to spreading out..   Height-wise, they can get tall ..say in the 10-15ft range, maybe taller given enough space in an ideal area..

If it does well there, would think A. tongaense would eventually get fairly large / be a bit harder to keep corralled, compared to the Cereus. Have seen relatively larger Organ Pipes // some other Cereus kept " slim "  ...say to a dozen or so stems.. 

Thanks for the reply, my weird microclimate inquiries are usually met with a shrug, which is understandable.

I've been hunting around. Here is a young Cereus (jamacaru, hildmannianus... something "spineless," I don't know) growing in a front yard very close to my house. May get drip, but I doubt it. Small, but seems like it's growing fine. 

Darold has an old Cereus peruvianus (hildmannianus?) up the hill. I'll ask him about it next time I see him.

Aloidendron barberae at the zoo. Some of the older tree aloes around, but not the huge proportions seen in SoCal, not to say they can't get there eventually.

Anecdotally, I know someone in Hayward has both mature A. tongaense and A. barberae. He says his A. tongaense performs better and branched earlier but is more compact, slowing way down around the 15' mark after a couple decades of growth. 

I think I will give the spot to one or the other to minimize branch trimming and retain more appealing form. 👍

[Silas_Sancona]

6 minutes ago, Rivera said:

Thanks for the reply, my weird microclimate inquiries are usually met with a shrug, which is understandable.

I've been hunting around. Here is a young Cereus (jamacaru, hildmannianus... something "spineless," I don't know) growing in a front yard very close to my house. May get drip, but I doubt it. Small, but seems like it's growing fine. 

Darold has an old Cereus peruvianus (hildmannianus?) up the hill. I'll ask him about it next time I see him.

Aloidendron barberae at the zoo. Some of the older tree aloes around, but not the huge proportions seen in SoCal, not to say they can't get there eventually.

Anecdotally, I know someone in Hayward has both mature A. tongaense and A. barberae. He says his A. tongaense performs better and branched earlier but is more compact, slowing way down around the 15' mark after a couple decades of growth. 

I think I will give the spot to one or the other to minimize branch trimming and retain more appealing form. 👍

 

I'll admit, i gave up trying to properly ID these similar looking Cereus awhile ago, lol..  These things are pretty tough so you may not even need to add a drip line to it.. Even here, you'll see specimens growing perfectly fine ( though maybe slower ) where it seems they don't get any water beyond any when it rains.

It's been awhile but remember the  A. tongaense being the shorter of the two also where seen together in S.Cal. ...so the idea of it growing at a slower pace, esp. up there makes sense. A. barberae is just a freakin monster, lol  though i'm sure even the gi-normus specimens at the Huntington took decades to attain their size.

What always surprised me was knowing there were barberae specimens growing in San Francisco, but never finding any examples in San Jose, or Santa Cruz. Hopefully that has changed.  Cereus -whatever they actually are-, were common enough though.

 

[Rivera]

53 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

 

I'll admit, i gave up trying to properly ID these similar looking Cereus awhile ago, lol..  These things are pretty tough so you may not even need to add a drip line to it.. Even here, you'll see specimens growing perfectly fine ( though maybe slower ) where it seems they don't get any water beyond any when it rains.

It's been awhile but remember the  A. tongaense being the shorter of the two also where seen together in S.Cal. ...so the idea of it growing at a slower pace, esp. up there makes sense. A. barberae is just a freakin monster, lol  though i'm sure even the gi-normus specimens at the Huntington took decades to attain their size.

What always surprised me was knowing there were barberae specimens growing in San Francisco, but never finding any examples in San Jose, or Santa Cruz. Hopefully that has changed.  Cereus -whatever they actually are-, were common enough though.

 

Sometimes it's hard to meaningfully contrast growth rates between coastal SoCal (Mission Beach, Huntington Beach, wherever) and our area because while the difference in sun and heat is obvious, there is a much more prevalent culture of watering in SoCal (or even just in the valley where you water exotics or watch many of them suffer). Sure there are lots of dry gardens all throughout the state, but I'd say regularly irrigated ornamental gardens are only common in the wealthier SF neighborhoods with larger plots for landscaping. 

Other than that, watering is often reserved for edible gardens and the occasional odd (old?) duck still keeping a lawn and roses. 

I can't assert this as fact, just my impression, and possibly a mistaken one. 

Santa Cruz is mixed, but skews a little more towards SoCal garden habits. My brother lives there.

My garden is about 2/3 dry. Even though my "soil" is very fast draining, cool summer temps, high humidity and substantial fog drip makes it pretty easy to keep tropicals moist throughout the summer and early fall season. My yard is small and I just hand-water everything that needs it. 

Aloes arborescens is ubiquitous, but most aloes whether tropicals or "desert"/mediterranean do great here without care, only excluding the most heat-demanding. 

[Silas_Sancona]

5 minutes ago, Rivera said:

Sometimes it's hard to meaningfully contrast growth rates between coastal SoCal (Mission Beach, Huntington Beach, wherever) and our area because while the difference in sun and heat is obvious, there is a much more prevalent culture of watering in SoCal (or even just in the valley where you water exotics or watch many of them suffer). Sure there are lots of dry gardens all throughout the state, but I'd say regularly irrigated ornamental gardens are only common in the wealthier SF neighborhoods with larger plots for landscaping. 

Other than that, watering is often reserved for edible gardens and the occasional odd (old?) duck still keeping a lawn and roses. 

I can't assert this as fact, just my impression, and possibly a mistaken one. 

Santa Cruz is mixed, but skews a little more towards SoCal garden habits. My brother lives there.

My garden is about 2/3 dry. Even though my "soil" is very fast draining, cool summer temps, high humidity and substantial fog drip makes it pretty easy to keep tropicals moist throughout the summer and early fall season. My yard is small and I just hand-water everything that needs it. 

Aloes arborescens is ubiquitous, but most aloes whether tropicals or "desert"/mediterranean do great here without care, only excluding the most heat-demanding. 

Haha

Agree, two similar ..but quite different... areas of the state  w/ Santa Cruz, ...maybe even Monterrey  being somewhere in between..  Always regarded S.C. as feeling more S. Cal. like when roaming around the area / ending up burnt after a full day at the beach in high school..  Wasn't too long ago that Capitola planted a bunch of Golden Medallion ( Cassia / Senna leptophylla ) along parts of 41st Ave. ..a subtropical flowering tree more common in S. Cal than further north, at least at the time..   Contrast that with Half Moon Bay ..typically foggy and cool ( ..Dare i say outright cold, most of the time i visited at least lol ) Great area for Fuschia, tougher for anything that likes warmth..

Was going to mention the fog drip adding moisture to the soil / typically cooler summer temps = slower evaporation rates aspects  but anyone who is well seasoned w/ coastal CA climatology is pretty aware of that benefit.  Agree that yea, extra watering of yards up there isn't as prevalent as in either S. Cal,  or even San Jose..  Even in the latter, i didn't have to hand water potted stuff all that much during this time of year.