Mule palm leaf cold tolerance

[MarcusH]

At what temperature do leafs burn ? Trying to figure out how much more cold hardier the leafs are compared to a Queen palm.  

Thank you ! 

[mnorell]

I think that's a variable answer depending on the genetics of the individual hybrid child. Those that I grew in Natchez (all from ErikSJI) took down to about 20F before experiencing any severe leaf-burn. I lost one decent-sized palm at 18F in the 2010 freeze, another had extreme leaf damage, and I had one survive the 13F jab in 2018 with defoliation and I cut down to open up a drainage-channel in the bud and it did refoliate eventually.  These numbers would be different of course in the drier winters of the west, and San Antonio sort of sits between those zones, so you probably need to see other folks' experiences in Austin or SA. Another thing to remember, though, is that queens, due to their wide distribution in South America, may be damaged (or undamaged) over a wide range of temps depending on provenance. Many folks (most notably Alberto and Nigel) here on the forum have discussed this over the years, and here is a thread exploring that topic. 

[Allen]

around 20F.  The outer smaller tips will burn first and move inward as temps drop to high teens

Edited June 15, 2023 by Allen

[Fusca]

@mnorell is correct.  Mule palms are quite variable in appearance and cold hardiness.  My first one also came from @ErikSJI and it didn't show any damage above 20°F.  At that temp it only suffered cosmetic damage (black spotting).

[MarcusH]

Thank you everyone for the quick response . With the mule palm you never know what you get unless you going to look for more mature ones but they get pricey really quick.  I have 2 Queens planted in the yard,  the one I planted last year defoliated in December.  It's just growing out its 3rd frond . They grow one by one unlike my washingtonias that push out two fronds each time in a much faster growth rate.  I'm afraid that the Mule palm growths just like the Queen. In case my Queens don't make it sometime in the future I might go with a Mule palm.  Sabal palmetto is also on the list.  How does the crown of a mule palm grow ? One by one or multiple fronds at once?  

[MarcusH]

5 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Thank you everyone for the quick response . With the mule palm you never know what you get unless you going to look for more mature ones but they get pricey really quick.  I have 2 Queens planted in the yard,  the one I planted last year defoliated in December.  It's just growing out its 3rd frond . They grow one by one unlike my washingtonias that push out two fronds each time in a much faster growth rate.  I'm afraid that the Mule palm growths just like the Queen. In case my Queens don't make it sometime in the future I might go with a Mule palm.  Sabal palmetto is also on the list.  How does the crown of a mule palm grow ? One by one or multiple fronds at once?  

Here's an example of different growth. I had to cut 3 healthy fronds off my Washy because it always got in the way when I mowed the lawn.  It already grew a dozen fronds while the Queen is still growing its 3rd frond.  

[ChicagoPalma]

From what i see, the queen palm is much more cold hardier than the mule palm and has also been proven through research and evidence. I might experiment with a queen palm probably this year or next year and see would it survive a midwestern/canadian winter. Though my expectations are very low if i try. protection included

Edited June 16, 2023 by ChicagoPalma

[SeanK]

As others stated, it's a crap shoot. Depends on closely it leans towards either parent. Some are less leaf-hardy than L.chinensis.

[DAVEinMB]

23 minutes ago, ChicagoPalma said:

From what i see, the queen palm is much more cold hardier than the mule palm and has also been proven through research and evidence

There is no comparison between these two in cold tolerance. Mule beats queen in every scenario 

[ChicagoPalma]

How?

21 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

There is no comparison between these two in cold tolerance. Mule beats queen in every scenario 

 

[DAVEinMB]

2 minutes ago, ChicagoPalma said:

How?

 

Your typical mule is a cross between a queen and a pindo. Queens are reliably 9b palms however there are some solid 9a examples. Pindos are 8a reliable with some 7b examples. Crossing the two results in a palm that is more tropical looking than a pindo and more cold hardy than a queen. 

[MarcusH]

I have to agree with Dave. The Queen is the least cold hardy palm and yes it's classified as a 9b palm but will succefully grow in a warm 9a zone like you see on the Southeast coast . Texas isn't in the same ball park because we get the extreme arctic winters all the way down here.  As Dave mentioned before ,the Mule is a hybrid between a Pindo and a Queen. Depending of the variety I would say they get anywhere between 2 to 5 degrees of cold tolerance.  Correct me if I'm wrong. 

[Robert Cade Ross]

On 6/16/2023 at 2:15 PM, ChicagoPalma said:

From what i see, the queen palm is much more cold hardier than the mule palm and has also been proven through research and evidence. I might experiment with a queen palm probably this year or next year and see would it survive a midwestern/canadian winter. Though my expectations are very low if i try. protection included

This won’t end well lol …… what queens are you talking about ? They croak around 22° 

[ChicagoPalma]

Welp, everyone says mule palms are better,  so I might try mule palm.