Anyone willing to diagnose my Palm’s issue?

[microscopes]

Hello everyone.

I had several “Areca” (at least that’s what the nursery called it) palms planted 9 months ago. They were beautiful and lush and green and 10 feet tall, and created a tropical hedge against my fence that I loved.

Flash forward to now and they’re brown and yellow and looking awful.

I am in Pinellas County Fl and we have had very little rain, so maybe that’s the problem? But then my lawn guy said it’s not rain - he thinks it’s because I haven’t given them any fertilizer (I thought you’re supposed to wait a year?).

Anyone able to diagnose from a photo?

 

[idontknowhatnametuse]

Looks like sunburn to me

[aabell]

How much water have you been giving them? The older leaves may be a bit yellow coming out of winter, but should be putting out healthy green leaves now. 

If they aren't growing much at all, that sounds like a water issue not a fertilizer issue since they were only planted last year. Need regular deep waterings after planting to get the roots well established, especially during hot dry spells like we have in the spring. 

If it's a sunburn issue that should also correct itself once they are well established. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by aabell

[microscopes]

37 minutes ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

Looks like sunburn to me

Thank you. They do get a lot of sun. Full day, actually. But they’re not moving, haha, so I hope they get used to it.

[microscopes]

1 hour ago, aabell said:

How much water have you been giving them? The older leaves may be a bit yellow coming out of winter, but should be putting out healthy green leaves now. 

If they aren't growing much at all, that sounds like a water issue not a fertilizer issue since they were only planted last year. Need regular deep waterings after planting to get the roots well established, especially during hot dry spells like we have in the spring. 

If it's a sunburn issue that should also correct itself once they are well established. 

Thank you.

The only water they get is from rain.

I do have a quote to have a sprinkler system installed.

[Merlyn]

That's a typical Potassium deficiency, common in FL's sandy soils.  Palms get translucent spots in the leaves and necrotic (dead) or frazzled leaf tips.  The recommended dose of fertilizer is 1.5lb of 8-2-12 NPK ratio per 100sqft of canopy size, 4x per year.  Generally you wait 1-2 months after planting to give them fertilizer, not a full year.  They definitely need a dose asap! 

Water is also important, but "Areca" can also do okay with just rainwater and an occasional watering during our May or October droughts.  Sprinklers can be a rot hazard for palms, as the water pressure hitting the trunks can cause lower trunk rot.  Driplines with bubblers, button drippers, or small fan sprayers are a better choice.  You can install a timer and a dripline setup with 1/2" tubing near the plants.  Then just install the small fan sprayers-on-a-stick positioned so they water the root area (extending 6-10' out from the plants) and not spray directly on the palms.

BTW - "Areca" or "Butterfly Palm" is actually Dypsis Lutescens, recently renamed to Chrysalidocarpus Lutescens.

[Merlyn]

Here's my notes on fertilizer deficiencies, for future reference:

• Nitrogen - Older fronds turn light green uniformly, new fronds remain dark green until deficiency is really severe
• Potassium - Older fronds get translucent yellow/orange or dead spots on leaves, especially at the tips. Caryota and Arenga get random splotched dead spots in leaves. Sometimes tips are curled or frizzled. Always starts at tips of oldest leaves, moving inwards
• Magnesium -Yellow ends on oldest leaves first, transitions to solid green at the base of each leaf. Never causes leaf tip necrosis
• Iron - Many times caused by overly mucky soil and root rot. Starts with new spear leaves with yellow-green or even white, possibly with spots of green. EDDHA works up to pH of 9, 3-5oz per 100sqft
• Manganese - Lengthwise necrotic streaks in NEW leaves with dead and curled leaf tips. Similar to bands showing Magnesium deficiency. Mn is NOT mobile, so it can't be stolen from old leaves.
• Boron - Bent or necrotic or distorted leaf tips, distorted or bent spear, bands of dead spots on new fans, spears that won't fully open
• Water - Underwatering brown at the edges first, later followed by yellowing of the whole leaf. Overwatering can be drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color
• Dolomitic Lime or Azomite - Magnesium Carbonate – reduces acidity/raises pH – slower release and adds Magnesium, helps avoid Potassium deficiencies in Cuban Copernicias. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis
• Garden Lime - Calcium Carbonate – fast release but works well. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis
• Sulfur - Elemental sulfur powder or prills reduces pH, 1/2 ounce per cubic foot in sandy soils
• Sunburn - Orange/Red/Brown streaks on surfaces facing the point of hottest sun, typically the worst case is around 1-4pm. Sun tolerant species will adapt and grow out of it. Shade loving species may never adapt.

[microscopes]

3 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

That's a typical Potassium deficiency, common in FL's sandy soils.  Palms get translucent spots in the leaves and necrotic (dead) or frazzled leaf tips.  The recommended dose of fertilizer is 1.5lb of 8-2-12 NPK ratio per 100sqft of canopy size, 4x per year.  Generally you wait 1-2 months after planting to give them fertilizer, not a full year.  They definitely need a dose asap! 

Water is also important, but "Areca" can also do okay with just rainwater and an occasional watering during our May or October droughts.  Sprinklers can be a rot hazard for palms, as the water pressure hitting the trunks can cause lower trunk rot.  Driplines with bubblers, button drippers, or small fan sprayers are a better choice.  You can install a timer and a dripline setup with 1/2" tubing near the plants.  Then just install the small fan sprayers-on-a-stick positioned so they water the root area (extending 6-10' out from the plants) and not spray directly on the palms.

BTW - "Areca" or "Butterfly Palm" is actually Dypsis Lutescens, recently renamed to Chrysalidocarpus Lutescens.

Wow! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I will head to the store now and pick up some fertilizer.

The irrigation company did mention bubblers - I don’t know why I said sprinklers. I guess i’m just used to the yards that are watered.

[microscopes]

@MerlynProbably a stupid question but do I just sprinkle the fertilizer around the base (trunks)?

[Merlyn]

1 hour ago, microscopes said:

@MerlynProbably a stupid question but do I just sprinkle the fertilizer around the base (trunks)?

Sorta.  You want to sprinkle randomly in the area more-or-less under the "canopy" of the palm.  Roots on Areca/Lutescens will go out maybe 6 feet or so from the trunks, so just sprinkle in that general area.  Don't clump it up at the base of the trunks, the fertilizer will probably burn the nearby roots and trunk.

[microscopes]

42 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

Sorta.  You want to sprinkle randomly in the area more-or-less under the "canopy" of the palm.  Roots on Areca/Lutescens will go out maybe 6 feet or so from the trunks, so just sprinkle in that general area.  Don't clump it up at the base of the trunks, the fertilizer will probably burn the nearby roots and trunk.

Thank you so much for your help! I’ll sprinkle over the seashells under the canopy.

[Bigfish]

I agree with @Merlyn.  K deficiency.  Deep water that palm every once in a while too!  They love it.

[microscopes]

Hello everyone. Just wanted to give a 1 and a half month update. I raked back the seashells surrounding the “Areca” palms, added a cup of palm mulch per palm, and then raked back the seashells.

So far, I don’t see any improvement.

Question: Did I not add enough fertilizer, or is 1.5 months not enough time to see a difference?

[SeanK]

Can you provide new photos?

One showing older leaves, another showing the spear and new leaves.

FYI; the older leaves cannot be repaired. So they are a window on the past, nothing more.

[Looking Glass]

42 minutes ago, microscopes said:

Hello everyone. Just wanted to give a 1 and a half month update. I raked back the seashells surrounding the “Areca” palms, added a cup of palm mulch per palm, and then raked back the seashells.

So far, I don’t see any improvement.

Question: Did I not add enough fertilizer, or is 1.5 months not enough time to see a difference?

The damage from potassium deficiency will never reverse on the damaged leaves.  It has to “grow out” as the old leaves are replaced with new healthy ones.   This process can take a year or more, depending on the species.   So keep at it.  In Florida, preventing this is easier and prettier than treating it.  

If you keep using palm specific fertilizer 4x per year that will help.  I think by the time you are seeing serious damage, it’s time to also use some Potash 0-0-60 + Magnesium 16% or just some Langbeinite/SulPoMag.   You can find stuff like this at simple places like Lowes/Home Depot or on Amazon.   
 

To make it simple, for a small palm:

2.5 cups of high quality 8-2-12 Palm fertilizer every 3 months or so.  
 

For small palms with potassium deficiency, also:

3/4th a cup of Langbeinite/SulPoMag.

-or-

1/2 a cup of Potash 0-0-60 and 1/2 cup of Magnesium 16% granules 16%

Every 3 months.  Between the regular fertilizer dosing.  

It doesn’t have to be perfect dosing.  Just spread evenly and consistently over where the roots are.  The new growth will slowly replace the old damaged growth, and new damage will stop appearing on the new leaves.  

A clump or hedge row of your palm will eat a substantial amount of this fertilizer.  That’s the dosing for a Pygmy Date sized palm. 

Here’s my favorite guide for Florida:

https://www.palmbeachpalmcycadsociety.com/documents/PalmNutritionalDeficiencyCorrectionAndAntagonisticNutritionalRelationships.pdf

[sonoranfans]

On 6/17/2023 at 1:11 PM, microscopes said:

Thank you.

The only water they get is from rain.

I do have a quote to have a sprinkler system installed.

bingo, that is your biggest problem for sure with so little rainfall this year they will burn without supplemental water in full sun. Now about that part of not fertilizing for a year, not in florida as we get potassium deficiency rather quickly here.  These are C. Lutecens, they often call them areca here.  While parts of eastern florida have been very wet this year(over 60" rain in fort lauderdale), we have had less than 8" rain in the bradenton/sarasota area, about 25" less than the normal. C. Lutecens are a much better looking palm in part shade, but your problem is very likely 1) water 2-3 times a week for 30-40 mins depending on sand/clay soil composition (2 times for clay 3 times for sandy soil).  2) you do have to fertilize in the growing season here. for best results.   Note that when you do not water there can be no fertilizer uptake, this is why water starved palms show deficiencies like that one showing K deficiency.  Dry soil means no fertilizer movement in the soil to allow transpoirt to roots so even if there were natural nutrients they will be wuickly depleted aroud the roots and no more nutrients can move to the root/soil interface replace them.  This may be a record low year for rainfall here if these conditions persist, this is far from a normal weather pattern.  Those deficient leaves will not recover, the plant will shed them and grow new ones which should look nice and green, but IMO you need to water these palms 2-3x a week for 30-40 mins.

[happypalms]

On 6/18/2023 at 6:52 AM, microscopes said:

@MerlynProbably a stupid question but do I just sprinkle the fertilizer around the base (trunks)?

Not a stupid question advice is free mistakes are costly we all learn something new everyday 

[microscopes]

UPDATE

8 or so months later and my Areca’s still look unfortunately quite bad. Just like the pics above.

Ive been giving them palm fertilizer pretty often (every 3 months or so), and we have had a rainy winter.

Does anyone think I should go heavy Po-Mag? Doesn’t seem the palm fertilizer is doing much. I use Sunniland Palm Fert.

[microscopes]

On 8/6/2023 at 7:35 PM, Looking Glass said:

For small palms with potassium deficiency, also:

3/4th a cup of Langbeinite/SulPoMag.

-or-

1/2 a cup of Potash 0-0-60 and 1/2 cup of Magnesium 16% granules 16%

Every 3 months.  Between the regular fertilizer dosing.  

This 3/4 cup is per areca palm right? at the base of the trunk?

[Looking Glass]

1 hour ago, microscopes said:

This 3/4 cup is per areca palm right? at the base of the trunk?

Give or take.  Don’t pour it concentrated in a small area.   Thats a lot of salt that can damage the roots.   You scatter it diffusely around the “drip line”, not against the trunk….   The area under the canopy, where the roots should theoretically mostly be.   In newly planted palms, the roots will all be where the container was.   In old palms, roots extend much further than the drip line, sometimes much further than the hight of the palm…. Don’t worry too much about exact measurements.  Just spread it around good and water well.  

I don’t particularly like Sunniland for most stuff.  It can burn the hell out of things if you aren’t careful.   Lay down mulch around the drip line too.   Protects ground holds moisture and improves soil over time.  It will take a year of feeding them consistently to see improvement.  The bad fronds will never get better, just be replaced. 
 

 

[microscopes]

12 minutes ago, Looking Glass said:

Give or take.  Don’t pour it concentrated in a small area.   Thats a lot of salt that can damage the roots.   You scatter it diffusely around the “drip line”, not against the trunk….   The area under the canopy, where the roots should theoretically mostly be.   In newly planted palms, the roots will all be where the container was.   In old palms, roots extend much further than the drip line, sometimes much further than the hight of the palm…. Don’t worry too much about exact measurements.  Just spread it around good and water well.  

I don’t particularly like Sunniland for most stuff.  It can burn the hell out of things if you aren’t careful.   Lay down mulch around the drip line too.   Protects ground holds moisture and improves soil over time.  It will take a year of feeding them consistently to see improvement.  The bad fronds will never get better, just be replaced. 
 

 

Thank you for this helpful info.
 

My arecas are not quite 2 years planted in my yard yet, so i’m guessing the roots aren’t too far. 

I also have sea shells acting as “mulch” right now. I wonder if that’s stopping some of the fertilizer from getting to the roots.

I’m going to give it. a heavy dose of potassium and magnesium tomorrow. The general palm fertilizer isn’t doing the trick.

[Merlyn]

@microscopes organic material makes much better mulch, especially in coastal FL.  Your location didn't click with me last year, but you are probably on alkaline soil.  Adding shell mulch will only help to raise the soil pH (shells are about the same as limestone), which will generally make nutrient deficiencies worse.  It's not so much of a problem with potassium (see chart below), but definitely affects uptake of other nutrients.  If you are up in the 8 range (definitely possible), then it'll be tougher to keep the palms happy.  And with sandy soils any fertilizer washes away pretty fast.

I'd suggest some good mulch instead of shells.  You will want something that breaks down and improves the sandy soil, so I'd avoid cypress.  Personally the generic small shredded mulch or small pine bark nuggets ought to work fine.  Also, post a couple of photos of the fronds now.  Keep in mind that fertilizer will only help *new* growth look better and won't "fix" the older fronds that have already yellowed.  And if you cut off the old stuff before it's completely dessicated then you are depriving the palm of nutrients.  Palms will "eat" the old fronds for nutrients.  So if you cut them off for cosmetic or clearance reasons, you'll just need to compensate with additional fertilizer.  Also, Areca palms are not too cold hardy.  Even though it's only been in the ~40F range this winter, my two clusters are not looking too thrilled with repeated dips into the low 40s.

[microscopes]

17 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

@microscopes organic material makes much better mulch, especially in coastal FL.  Your location didn't click with me last year, but you are probably on alkaline soil.  Adding shell mulch will only help to raise the soil pH (shells are about the same as limestone), which will generally make nutrient deficiencies worse.  It's not so much of a problem with potassium (see chart below), but definitely affects uptake of other nutrients.  If you are up in the 8 range (definitely possible), then it'll be tougher to keep the palms happy.  And with sandy soils any fertilizer washes away pretty fast.

I'd suggest some good mulch instead of shells.  You will want something that breaks down and improves the sandy soil, so I'd avoid cypress.  Personally the generic small shredded mulch or small pine bark nuggets ought to work fine.  Also, post a couple of photos of the fronds now.  Keep in mind that fertilizer will only help *new* growth look better and won't "fix" the older fronds that have already yellowed.  And if you cut off the old stuff before it's completely dessicated then you are depriving the palm of nutrients.  Palms will "eat" the old fronds for nutrients.  So if you cut them off for cosmetic or clearance reasons, you'll just need to compensate with additional fertilizer.  Also, Areca palms are not too cold hardy.  Even though it's only been in the ~40F range this winter, my two clusters are not looking too thrilled with repeated dips into the low 40s.

Hi Merlyn. Thanks for the info!

I just googled it and Pinellas County appears to be neutral to “slightly base”. 

Based on your advice and Looking Glass advice, I am going to stop by the garden supply store today and pick up some Potassium Sulfate and Magnesium Sulfate and go heavy with these. My current fertilizer which is 6-1-8 clearly doesnt have enough of either to overcome the sandy soil and sea shells.

We really like the look of a “white” ground covering, so I don’t know if I can convince my wife to go with mulch everywhere, but maybe we could pull the seashells back from around the arecas and create a circle of mulch around each. Not sure if that would help? Or maybe switching to a white stone instead of sea shells?

[microscopes]

@Merlyn here are updated photos. You can see that they start spotting and then eventually start dying off on the ends and progresses until the entire frond is brown and can be easily pulled away from the treez

 

[Harry’s Palms]

I have a couple of these in Southern California . They are very tall and grow well but want some shade especially when young (mine are 20+ years old) . I have an arid climate here and mine only carry 4-5 fronds per stem before they get brown . The other factor is wind . The one on the side of my house that gets prevailing winds is not as lush (still nice though) as the one on the other side of my house that gets afternoon protection from the winds. They both seem to grow at the same rate . Both got shade when young. Harry

[Merlyn]

@microscopes I'd guess a white granite type would not leech small amounts of lime into the soil, but just changing shells to something like white marble might not make a difference.  Marble is, fundamentally, limestone.  Pulling it back a couple of feet and doing a mulch ring would probably help. 

Adding some sulpomag / kmag / langbeinite is a good all natural way to add potassium and magnesium.  I have a giant bag from Seven Springs Farm, it was about $70 shipped for a 50lb bag.  It has definitely helped on a few palms that have had persistent signs of potassium deficiency.  The Sunniland 6-1-8 is all soluble potash (Muriate of Potash, Sulphate of Potash Magnesia), so it will wash away a lot faster than a slow dissolve mineral form like Langbeinite.  The "potassium sulfate" you get at the local store is the same stuff, aka "Sulfate of Potash."  I'd experiment with adding some extra potassium sulfate and magnesium sulfate.  If it's not making a noticeable difference in a couple of months, I'd try adding some Lanbeinite and see if that helps.  Just don't overdo it, because too much can easily burn roots or cause other nutrient deficiencies.  So below if you add too much K, then the plants won't absorb enough Nitrogen, Calcium, or Magnesium.

If the yellow streaks and dead spots are always on the oldest fronds first, then it's most likely a nutrient deficiency.  If you are seeing that on *new* fronds then there might be a fungal infection going on.  Hopefully the new fronds are growing out solid green, and it's just the old ones that are looking ratty.

[microscopes]

5 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@microscopes I'd guess a white granite type would not leech small amounts of lime into the soil, but just changing shells to something like white marble might not make a difference.  Marble is, fundamentally, limestone.  Pulling it back a couple of feet and doing a mulch ring would probably help. 

Adding some sulpomag / kmag / langbeinite is a good all natural way to add potassium and magnesium.  I have a giant bag from Seven Springs Farm, it was about $70 shipped for a 50lb bag.  It has definitely helped on a few palms that have had persistent signs of potassium deficiency.  The Sunniland 6-1-8 is all soluble potash (Muriate of Potash, Sulphate of Potash Magnesia), so it will wash away a lot faster than a slow dissolve mineral form like Langbeinite.  The "potassium sulfate" you get at the local store is the same stuff, aka "Sulfate of Potash."  I'd experiment with adding some extra potassium sulfate and magnesium sulfate.  If it's not making a noticeable difference in a couple of months, I'd try adding some Lanbeinite and see if that helps.  Just don't overdo it, because too much can easily burn roots or cause other nutrient deficiencies.  So below if you add too much K, then the plants won't absorb enough Nitrogen, Calcium, or Magnesium.

If the yellow streaks and dead spots are always on the oldest fronds first, then it's most likely a nutrient deficiency.  If you are seeing that on *new* fronds then there might be a fungal infection going on.  Hopefully the new fronds are growing out solid green, and it's just the old ones that are looking ratty.

Thank you Merlyn. Your advice is incredible and appreciated. I’ll be ordering the controlled release potassium!

Edited February 17, 2024 by microscopes