Date Palm Culture

[Gtlevine]

A bunch of Phoenix Dactylifera that were recently planted along the State of California right-of-way in Coachella Valley desert of California are all rapidly dying. The palms are large specimen transplants, typical of this species. The contractor who planted the palms believes it is due to the brackish water endemic of the area, but I have seen date palms thrive under high salinic conditions. I'm not sure if Fusarium infects true dates, but I would like to determine a common cause. Does anyone have specifics on date palm culture and what possibilities could be causing the decline?

Gary

[Tad]

could be fusarium , it too infects dacts, could be lethal yellowing, california sucked up a lot of material from florida to replace casulties from the winter burn., could be you wind up with a case of ly from some host palm imported from FLA.

[LJG]

Gary, Fusarium infects all Phoenix palms. However it is only know to be lethal to CIDPs. The fungus is "Fusarium oxysporum f. sp. canariensis". As you know, I have done my fair share of research regarding this disease, in fact, too much. From what I gather it is not lethal to other species. What is, comes from what that plant catches after it is weak - Gliocladium for example. They will recover from Fusarium if not hit with something else.

As you know I am certainly no expert, but I would guess that moving a plant from one environment to another harsh one would certainly kill it. Especially once most its root mass has been chopped up and then moved to a new 'brackish' environment. They grow in salinic conditions, but they were probably raised from there too. I have seen MANY transplants. From local business parks to friends houses, and other then a slow establishment rate - as compared to CIDPs - they do great. I would side with what the contractor has stated.

It is not LY. I have never heard of "specimen" Phoenix Dactylifera being brought in from FL. And if they were, the State would have inspected them thoroughly. Plus there is no need to bring them from FL. They grow like weeds out in the desert and are shipped though out the state and NV anyway.

[MattyB]

Just some info for those in the forum who don't know the area that's being discussed:

San Diego, California is in the lower left hand corner of this shot.  The large body of water is in the desert and that's called the Salton Sea.  The surface of the Salton Sea lies 220 feet below sea level.  It's fed by agricultural runoff and 3 rivers.  One of them being the New River which runs north out of Mexicali, Mexico and into the Salton Sea.  The New River is the most polluted river in North America due to sewage and indutrial waste from Mexico.  You can see where I've marked the Cochella Valley and it indeed lies in the Salton Sea's basin.  The Salton Sea's salinity is 40 parts per thousand (ppt) making it more salty than the ocean which is 35ppt.  Anything between .5 ppt & 17 ppt is considered brackish.  So there's a potential of the ground water in the area where the palms are planted being a lot more salty than just brackish.  Not to mention possible toxic waste.

[MattyB]

The Salton Sea used to be a resort lake heavily visited by Southern Californians, but the salinity kept rising and now the area is like a toxic ghost town.

Dead Talapia in the Salton Sea.

[fastfeat]

I obviously haven't seen these plants personally, but my experience has told me that most plants that die quickly (first few months) is from too much or too little water. Most disease- and toxicity-related problems manifest themselves some time later.

Gary--any pics?

[fastfeat]

(MattyB @ Oct. 12 2007,13:37)

QUOTE

The Salton Sea used to be a resort lake heavily visited by Southern Californians, but the salinity kept rising and now the area is like a toxic ghost town.

Dead Talapia in the Salton Sea.

Damn, even a drunk redneck from Palm Beach Co could shoot fish in that barrel!!

"Looks like good eatin'!!"...

[MattyB]

add pepper only

[DoomsDave]

Ah, mon cher, ze perfume of ze dead -- how do you say?  floaters? -- is beyond sublime.

Nossing like a good barf to clear out ze inzides . . . .

oui?

le dave

[Gtlevine]

I am going to drive out to inspect the palms next week to provide my assessment for the California Department of Transportation. It is important to ascertain the cause in order to determine if the contractor is responsible to replace the palms or the loss must be incurred by the State. I will take some photographs.

Gary

[fastfeat]

(Gtlevine @ Oct. 12 2007,17:08)

QUOTE

I am going to drive out to inspect the palms next week to provide my assessment for the California Department of Transportation. It is important to ascertain the cause in order to determine if the contractor is responsible to replace the palms or the loss must be incurred by the State. I will take some photographs.

Gary

Gary--

Might want to take soil samples (or have a lab do it) to check for excessively saline conditions while you're there.

[MattyB]

That's what I was thinking, definately get ahold of a handheld coring tool so you can get some subsurface samples.  Get a shovel full at the least.  Good luck.

[Fouquieria]

Have you guys been out there before?  The reason I ask is because there's a huge date palm orchard right about where Matt has his pin stuck in the Google Earth image.

-Ron-

[MattyB]

Yeah Ron, I see what you're talking about.

There's a bunch of date palm farms, not just one.

Here's a close view of some land with date palms on it right in that area.

A little wider view.

And a little farther out.  All of the squares that have that brown/green color in them are date palm farms.  There's several others scattered around the lower 1/3 of the screen.

[freekypalmguy]

I have seen a lot of this lately. Industrial/retail centers are buying tons of dacts from Coachella and they all look really bad. Either they are a horrible transplanter, the contractor is doing a bad job, or they don't like the new conditions. My Wife and I just ate lunch in a new shopping center that had apx. 10 newly transplanted P. d.'s and they all look VERY bad. three are dead for sure and they have allready sawed them in half, another two have crowns that are falling over, and the rest look bad. I will try to get a pic this weekend.

[Tad]

date palm wilt, fusarium oxysporum  sp. albedinis  does in fact infect dacts,  and it very well could be ly, you have a lot of faith in your state ag dept. when you shouldnt, I didnt say the dacts were from florida, there are many host palms that come to your box stores from fla.  that are carriers of ly.

[Kris]

Dear Friends  

Lovely topic and iam reading the text carefuly.since here in my place iam growing Phoenix Sylversteris,Date Palms 2 varities and i will also plant CIDP...that is stocking all my favouriate phoenix in the main area..i think i will be the first in south india to have planted all these varities in one location.so that fungus wilt problem is what iam really concerned.since lots of migratory birds visit india during our spring season(end of cold & early summer arrival)..so what infection these birds bring along nobody knows ?

Dear Matty those pictures that you have posted are fentastic & memebers outside the u.s would be greatly benifited by these stills.

Dear Tad in the above paragraph you mentioned not to believe the Agro-dept...well said !  

thanks & love,

Kris  

[LJG]

(palmotrafficante @ Oct. 12 2007,21:20)

QUOTE

date palm wilt, fusarium oxysporum  sp. albedinis  does in fact infect dacts,  and it very well could be ly, you have a lot of faith in your state ag dept. when you shouldnt, I didnt say the dacts were from florida, there are many host palms that come to your box stores from fla.  that are carriers of ly.

Of the three true wilt species to infect palms, only F. oxysporum f. sp. canariensis is found in the US. F. oxysporum f. sp. albedinis is ONLY found in Algeria and Morocco. So make sure when you Google, you finish the reading.

The Ag department has no confirmed deaths do to LY in the State of CA on any Phoenix palms. There are many theories as to why, but hopefully is the vector - a leaf hopper (Myndus crudus) - does not like the Mediterranean climate.

[Tad]

i didnt google, but I have read a compendium of ornamental  palm disease and disorders.

just because there hasnt been a "confirmed" case of ly  don't mean it can't/won't happen

disease and pests move through out  the world these days like never before, the asian scale used to live in asia, now its all over florida and parts of TX,  and wont be long till california gets some too ,so to think a pest or disease is out of the realm of possibility is a little naive.

the sp of fusarium that kills cidp's in florida has been found by dna fingerprints to be like the types found in italy,france and japan . so there is proof of multiple introductions.

it also is found in australia,canary islands,france,italy,japan and the U.S.

so they must have been spread somehow?

I didnt gaurantee that thats whats killing the aforementioned trees in california, I only offered it as a suggestion.

[LJG]

(palmotrafficante @ Oct. 13 2007,06:43)

QUOTE

the sp of fusarium that kills cidp's in florida has been found by dna fingerprints to be like the types found in italy,france and japan . so there is proof of multiple introductions.

it also is found in australia,canary islands,france,italy,japan and the U.S.

so they must have been spread somehow?

I didnt gaurantee that thats whats killing the aforementioned trees in california, I only offered it as a suggestion.

This is F. oxysporum f. sp. canariensis. Not sp. albedinis. While "sp. canariensis" infects other Phoenix species, it is usually not lethal. Where as if it infects a CIDP, it is a death sentence.

I understand LY or 'sp. albedinis.' could end up here or anywhere. But that is not the topic of this thread. It is what is killing the Dacts. And it is not LY or 'sp. albedinis'.  ::