Pinwheel Jasmine (Tabernaemontana divaricata

[bubba]

[mnorell]

Beautiful specimen there, Keith. I love the Asiatic feel of this. Out here in the Palm Springs area, the double form ('flore pleno') is the only thing ever sold, but it has become ubiquitous and is sold in pretty much all the nurseries and big-box stores. It will tolerate full sun to close to 120F and if it does burn at all in record heatwaves, it leafs out immediately to replace anything that was hurt/destroyed. The odd thing with this plant is that I have always read that the single form is fragrant and the double form is not. I've never detected a scent on the double (commercial plant tags often state that it is fragrant) and I seem to remember smelling the single form decades ago in Hawai'i and it having fragrance...and when I grew it in L.A. years ago I think I remember the fragrance as well...but now my few small plants of the single form (I had to mail order them from Florida) are flowering but I can't detect a smell even in those. Perhaps it is the lack of humidity here in the desert?

But fragrance or not, I think it is an excellent multi-purpose shrub or small tree since it is adaptable in shape...and it is and always has been a favorite of mine. Though I was able to find it in years past, it was never common in coastal SoCal (San Diego or L.A.) in the late 20th century and at least as late as 2005 or so, but it may have become more popular there in the years since I moved away and now back in the region. I am never sure sometimes because the desert tends to have its own individual horticultural market at times, or at least its own 'skew' in what is carried in the retail trade out here. Maybe someone from the coastal/inland plain or the coastal fogbelt can chime in on that front. I don't know if it will flower right at the coast as it seems to want some warmth to perform well. But sourcing was always the problem long ago, there was a time when ABC Nursery in Gardena was about the only wholesale grower that propagated things like this (also in those days the only source for Ixora and Jasminum sambac), and Walter Anderson probably the only major retailer in the San Diego area for such exotics.

The question I have now is why, with an interest in this species, the other intensely fragrant large-flowered species--which one finds only occasionally even in Florida--have not been introduced or trialed in California. I have been unable to get my hands on any material to try of either T. africana or T. holstii other than a plant I was lucky enough to snag a decade ago at the Fairchild Ramble, and which was killed in Irma. Drats.
 

[bubba]

Michael,

This is a specimen in the Asian garden area at the Four Arts Garden in PB. It is a beautiful and delicate shrub and is definitely fragrant. Its growing requirement is 10 b so there should be numerous locations throughout Southern California, where it would thrive. Hard to tell much difference from flore pleno, although this variety may trend more tropical. Appreciate your insights and this shrub is definitely an attractive eye catcher.

[mnorell]

Keith, this is actually a zone 10 shrub as an evergreen, but is fully half-hardy. I used to grow it in Natchez (9a) and it would die back in the first hard freeze and grow back very quickly in spring to make a nice smallish blooming shrub each summer. It even came back after the 2010 winter (three days below freezing with lows each day of 18F, highs around 28F) and a 13F hit in early 2018. That was the double/flore pleno form I was growing there but I assume both types have equal hardiness. Mine here in the low desert (and many more planted around the Coachella Valley) have seen temps right around the freezing mark, 31-33F, with no damage (albeit with no actual frost formation, typical of the desert). I had the same results here for small plants of the single/pinwheel form.

Odd about the fragrance issue...probably my less-than-stellar olfactories, or time of day, low humidity, who knows...Plumeria is fragrant here but definitely less than in a humid climate so requires a grouping of good-sized trees to get a strong "waft" effect. Perhaps that's the issue with this for me.

[bubba]

According to Monrovia, flore pleno is 9-11. T divaracata is 10(b). Those other specimens you mentioned are no go below 55F. The Td is definitely fragrant.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/FP568

[Silas_Sancona]

12 minutes ago, bubba said:

According to Monrovia, flore pleno is 9-11. T divaracata is 10(b). Those other specimens you mentioned are no go below 55F. The Td is definitely fragrant.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/FP568

I sold stuff from Monrovia for several years..  BOTH versions did fine in 9b Central California..  Is sold at various places here so often as well.

 

4 hours ago, mnorell said:

Keith, this is actually a zone 10 shrub as an evergreen, but is fully half-hardy. I used to grow it in Natchez (9a) and it would die back in the first hard freeze and grow back very quickly in spring to make a nice smallish blooming shrub each summer. It even came back after the 2010 winter (three days below freezing with lows each day of 18F, highs around 28F) and a 13F hit in early 2018. That was the double/flore pleno form I was growing there but I assume both types have equal hardiness. Mine here in the low desert (and many more planted around the Coachella Valley) have seen temps right around the freezing mark, 31-33F, with no damage (albeit with no actual frost formation, typical of the desert). I had the same results here for small plants of the single/pinwheel form.

Odd about the fragrance issue...probably my less-than-stellar olfactories, or time of day, low humidity, who knows...Plumeria is fragrant here but definitely less than in a humid climate so requires a grouping of good-sized trees to get a strong "waft" effect. Perhaps that's the issue with this for me.

Lower humidity, temperature, and time of day can influence the fragrance on fragrant -flowered plants for sure,  esp. those in which the fragrance evolved to attract nocturnal  pollinators.. Chocolate Flower is most fragrant either in the morning, or on a humid evening ..Same with my Brunfelsia / other smelly stuff..

With Plumeria, while fragrance " strength " can be heavily influenced  by the above mentioned factors,  it is determined, -more often than not anyway,   by the cultivar / Ancestry of each cultivar.. 

IE: seedling - grown crosses  that were developed using something like  " Aztec Gold " , " Singapore / obtusa ",  or  " Celadine " will often carry on the " strong fragrance " traits from those parents,  esp. if that cultivar was the " pod " parent..   Crosses which have strong traits from something like " Courtade Pink ", " Samoan Fluff ",  pudica,  or maybe a species like cubense,  can often have a much less potent / easily detected ..either up close, or from a distance..  scent.  There are no " ugly " Plumeria,  but i myself try to seek out the stinkers.

There are even cultivars where the scent is ..weird.. ..Reminiscent of Herbs, Onions, or Pizza Sauce / Salsa..

Plumeria X " California Sally "  is a great example of this unique quirk among some Plumeria cultivars:

[Xenon]

My flore pleno in Houston is definitely fragrant though the scent doesn't travel far like jasmine, gardenia, rangoon creeper, etc. 

[mnorell]

On 7/11/2023 at 2:55 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

I sold stuff from Monrovia for several years..  BOTH versions did fine in 9b Central California..  Is sold at various places here so often as well.

 

Lower humidity, temperature, and time of day can influence the fragrance on fragrant -flowered plants for sure,  esp. those in which the fragrance evolved to attract nocturnal  pollinators.. Chocolate Flower is most fragrant either in the morning, or on a humid evening ..Same with my Brunfelsia / other smelly stuff..

With Plumeria, while fragrance " strength " can be heavily influenced  by the above mentioned factors,  it is determined, -more often than not anyway,   by the cultivar / Ancestry of each cultivar.. 

IE: seedling - grown crosses  that were developed using something like  " Aztec Gold " , " Singapore / obtusa ",  or  " Celadine " will often carry on the " strong fragrance " traits from those parents,  esp. if that cultivar was the " pod " parent..   Crosses which have strong traits from something like " Courtade Pink ", " Samoan Fluff ",  pudica,  or maybe a species like cubense,  can often have a much less potent / easily detected ..either up close, or from a distance..  scent.  There are no " ugly " Plumeria,  but i myself try to seek out the stinkers.

There are even cultivars where the scent is ..weird.. ..Reminiscent of Herbs, Onions, or Pizza Sauce / Salsa..

Plumeria X " California Sally "  is a great example of this unique quirk among some Plumeria cultivars:

OMG that is too funny about a Plumeria that smells like onions or B.O.! I love the line "I have seen folks pick these flowers and scrunch their nose on first sniff." Very cinematic moment there. Also I love reading that Plumeria compendium because it uses so many sources without differentiation or sourcing, and you'll get quotes like "spicy fragrance with onion undertones" right next to "Pretty sweet fragrance."

It is interesting to me how the fragrances are tuned for times of day or affected by humidity/dry. I have a row of pretty big Singapores by the pool that are in full flower and finally after a few years and with masses of bloom I get the occasional waft effect. But there is a small pikake (Jasminum sambac) planted beside them that even with only a few flowers, overpowers the Plumies that have at least a hundred blossoms! 'Aztec Gold' carries more than P. obtusa, at least to my nose. Amazing how sniffing a full flower-head of 'Aztec Gold' really smells like a basket of peaches, as advertised. Weird!

Nathan, do you see the single/pinwheel version of Tabernaemontana divaricata offered in the Phoenix area? I have not seen it at a commercial nursery here in the Coachella Valley, the market here is nothing but the double form. 

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, mnorell said:

OMG that is too funny about a Plumeria that smells like onions or B.O.! I love the line "I have seen folks pick these flowers and scrunch their nose on first sniff." Very cinematic moment there. Also I love reading that Plumeria compendium because it uses so many sources without differentiation or sourcing, and you'll get quotes like "spicy fragrance with onion undertones" right next to "Pretty sweet fragrance."

It is interesting to me how the fragrances are tuned for times of day or affected by humidity/dry. I have a row of pretty big Singapores by the pool that are in full flower and finally after a few years and with masses of bloom I get the occasional waft effect. But there is a small pikake (Jasminum sambac) planted beside them that even with only a few flowers, overpowers the Plumies that have at least a hundred blossoms! 'Aztec Gold' carries more than P. obtusa, at least to my nose. Amazing how sniffing a full flower-head of 'Aztec Gold' really smells like a basket of peaches, as advertised. Weird!

Nathan, do you see the single/pinwheel version of Tabernaemontana divaricata offered in the Phoenix area? I have not seen it at a commercial nursery here in the Coachella Valley, the market here is nothing but the double form. 

Pretty interesting the range of scents Plumeria cultivars can possess, esp. considering many species either have no ..or a very light..  fragrance. 

While not a perfect tool, fragrance of X " new " cultivar can often provide clues to who the dominant parent involved in a cross could be as well..  " Aida ", a cross between Aztec Gold ( Pollen ) and Maui Beauty ( Pod ) is a good example of this. While the most obvious fragrance notes noted might be Peach, Maui Beauty adds obvious notes of Lemon / sweet Citrus..

Yellow Jack, and/or Inca Gold, both of which could be mistaken for Aztec Gold, from a distance esp.. have a completely different fragrance profile.. Sweet/ Jasmine-like ..Based in that, i'd assume each were seedlings from a cross between Celadine  and/ or Singapore.. Just a guess though..

Mele Pa Bowman, another white / gold cross between the two, ( Celadine X Singapore ) has the scent you expect from that cross.. strong Citrus / Jasmine / Classic Plumeria.


Have seen the normal Pinwheel only about a handful of times in nurseries locally.. No clue where they came from. Double-flowered var. is the most common by far.