angel trumpet

[ZPalms]

So I bought an angel trumpet tree on a whim and I'm kind of scared so I wanted to here people tips

• Are they bad to have in the vacinity around people
• Can the smell fragence of the flowers or being near it cause irritation
• Wheres the best place to plant it
• anything else I should know about them

I'm nervous about it and might be overacting 😂

Edited July 8, 2023 by ZPalms

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, ZPalms said:

So I bought an angel trumpet tree on a whim and I'm kind of scared so I wanted to here people tips

• Are they bad to have in the vacinity around people
• Can the smell fragence of the flowers or being near it cause irritation
• Wheres the best place to plant it
• anything else I should know about them

I'm nervous about it and might be overacting 😂

1st 2 questions:

Yes, they are quite toxic, ..if you ingest it ...so you would want to plant where they can be enjoyed, but not where it may be frequently disturbed by people or animals ( If you have dogs that like to chew on things, for example ) 

Simply sniffing the flowers from a distance won't hurt anyone, but stuffing your face in a flower can transfer the " toxic " Chemicals to mucous membranes ..Inside of your nose, Throat, eyes, etc for example.  Handling the leaves bare handed can transfer the same toxins also.  Pollen is also toxic.   Level of toxicity can vary between plants / time of year as well.


Datura, a related Genus of plants, are also sometimes called " Angel's Trumpets " Grow much shorter/ flowers are held upright, rather than hang down.  Just as toxic.. Look up Jimsonweed / Sacred Datura.. Grown the second one and have had no ill effects from trimming or smelling the scent of the flowers when they're open.



3rd question: 

Out there?.. since you have more humidity and warm season rainfall than California, you may be able to plant it where it gets a little more sun ( Can burn in full sun out in CA, except right along the coast where persistent fog / low clouds limit the effects of Sun exposure )


Last question:

There are generally two types of Brugs. Warm and Cold growers..  Majority of plants offered in the Hort. trade are hybrids between the two groups.  That said, it is good to do your research on both types since warm growers are generally less tolerant of cold. Regardless, In your area, you will probably lose the top of the plant every winter,  and have to apply a deep layer of mulch to keep the roots from freezing.. Zone 8 is considered the limit for Brugmansia  overall.

Size wise?  Tough to say how tall they may get in a season there. In CA., they can reach 10-15ft tall in under 3 years if sited right / watered well.

Would spend some time looking over this site:

https://www.brugmansia.us/

[ZPalms]

thank you for then information! Can the pollen cause problems like in the wind? I’m so scared 😂

Edited July 8, 2023 by ZPalms

[Silas_Sancona]

4 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

thank you for then information! Can the pollen cause problems like in the wind? I’m so scared 😂

Nothing to be scared of, lol..  And no, because the pollen is sticky ( Majority of plants pollinated by insects / other critters produce sticky pollen ) it won't disperse in the wind like pollen from things like grasses or trees like Pine, Oak, etc that are more dependant on wind dispersal of their pollen.

Like any other plant that could be considered toxic ..there are many..  you just have to respect the plant's defences, and not do anything that might put you in a position where you could end up effected by X dangerous compound the plant produces. When you trim something like that, always wear gloves, ..maybe eye protection, and always wash hands well afterwards.. don't eat or burn it, etc..

Oleander is a good example ..Very toxic, but grown all over the place here and in CA. As long as you aren't eating it, or burning it, you won't get sick from simply having it around, taking a sniff of the flowers.

Obviously, there are toxic plants, then there are toxic producing plants that are very dangerous.. Manchaneel, a tree that grows in the Caribbean,  Giant Hogweed, an introduced non native, and Giant Stinging Nettles that grow in Australia are all dangerous..  Poison Oak / Ivy / Sumac are other good examples of plants that you obviously don't want to grow, because of how easily you can end up in contact w/ the toxic compounds produced by them.  Brugmansia are toxic, ..but not all that dangerous. Wouldn't be grown anywhere if they were..

Believe it or not, many toxic plants, including Brugmansia, can be used to create medicines / have been used as a medicine in the past.. In the case of Brugs, and some other plants in the nightshade family ( Which includes Tomatoes, Peppers, Eggplant, and Potatoes / Sweet Potatoes btw ),  one of the major, " toxic " compounds produced by them,  ..Scolpolamine,  is used to treat motion sickness..

Foxglove and Madagascar Periwinkle?, two other commonly grown garden plants which produces medications to treat Heart conditions.. 

Like i said, nothing to fear,  just site it wisely ..and don't go stuffing your face ( ..or allowing anyone else to ) in the plant / flowers for any length of time.. 

  With animals ( and people, lol ) , most will avoid toxic plants simply because those plants have a very bitter / sour taste when nibbled on. There are exceptions to that rule of course, but don't think Brugmansia is one of them. 

 

[ZPalms]

4 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Nothing to be scared of, lol..  And no, because the pollen is sticky ( Majority of plants pollinated by insects / other critters produce sticky pollen ) it won't disperse in the wind like pollen from things like grasses or trees like Pine, Oak, etc that are more dependant on wind dispersal of their pollen.

Like any other plant that could be considered toxic ..there are many..  you just have to respect the plant's defences, and not do anything that might put you in a position where you could end up effected by X dangerous compound the plant produces. When you trim something like that, always wear gloves, ..maybe eye protection, and always wash hands well afterwards.. don't eat or burn it, etc..

Oleander is a good example ..Very toxic, but grown all over the place here and in CA. As long as you aren't eating it, or burning it, you won't get sick from simply having it around, taking a sniff of the flowers.

Obviously, there are toxic plants, then there are toxic producing plants that are very dangerous.. Manchaneel, a tree that grows in the Caribbean,  Giant Hogweed, an introduced non native, and Giant Stinging Nettles that grow in Australia are all dangerous..  Poison Oak / Ivy / Sumac are other good examples of plants that you obviously don't want to grow, because of how easily you can end up in contact w/ the toxic compounds produced by them.  Brugmansia are toxic, ..but not all that dangerous. Wouldn't be grown anywhere if they were..

Believe it or not, many toxic plants, including Brugmansia, can be used to create medicines / have been used as a medicine in the past.. In the case of Brugs, and some other plants in the nightshade family ( Which includes Tomatoes, Peppers, Eggplant, and Potatoes / Sweet Potatoes btw ),  one of the major, " toxic " compounds produced by them,  ..Scolpolamine,  is used to treat motion sickness..

Foxglove and Madagascar Periwinkle?, two other commonly grown garden plants which produces medications to treat Heart conditions.. 

Like i said, nothing to fear,  just site it wisely ..and don't go stuffing your face ( ..or allowing anyone else to ) in the plant / flowers for any length of time.. 

  With animals ( and people, lol ) , most will avoid toxic plants simply because those plants have a very bitter / sour taste when nibbled on. There are exceptions to that rule of course, but don't think Brugmansia is one of them. 

 

Should I give planting it a try, I want to put in my backyard in the far back and it would be safe to view from a distance without any harm to anyone spending time in the backyard? I feel a bit better about it even though I'm still scared. I just imagine in my head I spend time doing stuff in the "garden" and poison myself 😂

[Silas_Sancona]

7 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

Should I give planting it a try, I want to put in my backyard in the far back and it would be safe to view from a distance without any harm to anyone spending time in the backyard? I feel a bit better about it even though I'm still scared. I just imagine in my head I spend time doing stuff in the "garden" and poison myself 😂

Definitely try it.. just don't plant where people might frequently run into it..  Usually see them planted in the background of a planting area, with shorter stuff planted in front of... or surrounding them, rather than as a stand - alone specimen. 

Nurseries i worked at in CA sold a lot of them each year.. If they were super dangerous to be around, we wouldn't have sold them /  i'd have experienced the effects of being near  them long ago.

[Darold Petty]

ZPalms,  the Lakeside Palmetum in Oakland, CA has had a large, old clump of B. 'Charles Grimaldi' growing immediately  above the display case and adjacent to several benches.  I have never heard of any adverse reaction to this plant. 

[ZPalms]

47 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Definitely try it.. just don't plant where people might frequently run into it..  Usually see them planted in the background of a planting area, with shorter stuff planted in front of... or surrounding them, rather than as a stand - alone specimen. 

Nurseries i worked at in CA sold a lot of them each year.. If they were super dangerous to be around, we wouldn't have sold them /  i'd have experienced the effects of being near  them long ago.

I'll give it a try! really apperciate the tips and reassurance, I'm assuming theirs no long term affects just being around the plant but really helps me feel better about the purchase!

 

2 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

ZPalms,  the Lakeside Palmetum in Oakland, CA has had a large, old clump of B. 'Charles Grimaldi' growing immediately  above the display case and adjacent to several benches.  I have never heard of any adverse reaction to this plant. 

I think I'm just scared of the most unlikely long term affects of being around a plant like this but I'm just being so overly careful 😂

[Than]

My town is full of them. Every other house garden has one. If that plant were that dangerous we would pick dead bodies from the streets here. I have two small ones. They seem to always have issues with pests (caterpillars, scales, marchalina, you name it) and I often just squeeze them with my hand. Never had any issues with irritation, perhaps I'm too naive.

Edited July 9, 2023 by ego

[ZPalms]

1 hour ago, ego said:

My town is full of them. Every other house garden has one. If that plant were that dangerous we would pick dead bodies from the streets here. I have two small ones. They seem to always have issues with pests (caterpillars, scales, marchalina, you name it) and I often just squeeze them with my hand. Never had any issues with irritation, perhaps I'm too naive.

I just have this idea in my head that being around it constantly I’m gonna be macrodosing poisoning and I shorten my life spam 😂

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, ZPalms said:

I just have this idea in my head that being around it constantly I’m gonna be macrodosing poisoning and I shorten my life spam 😂

As mentioned, these are about as toxic as Brugs.  Grown them on and off for a few years / encounter them, and a few other native Datura sps. quite often when plant surveying, while on a hike.

No short or long term issues from growing them / croutched down examining other plants growing among patches of them.

Datura wrightii, Sacred Datura:






 

[iDesign]

I grow them and am part of an online community of collectors… and it’s a never-ending joke about the hysteria surrounding these plants. Yes, they can be poisonous when injested (eaten) in large quantities, just like many other common yard plants. And yes, they’re part of the nightshade family… like tomatoes and potatoes 🍅

The humor comes from the fact that these growers have propagated them for decades, raised children and pets around them, even have dogs in that sometimes gnaw on the bark (which is NOT recommended, but not necessarily an instant death sentence). The general rule is “Don’t eat the Ornamentals” - though I do recommend caution if you have kids or pets that like to chew on random things. ⚠️

The only confirmed effect I’ve heard on the forum is the fact that if part of the plant squirts in your eye, your eye will be “dialated” for a few hours. Angel Trumpets have in the past been used by optometrists for eye dilation… but even that is temporary 👁️

So is the potential for harm there? YES!  But based on my status of not having plant-eating kids or pets around (and no desire to SMOKE my landscaping), I personally feel comfortable with them as part of my tropical yard, and love smelling them. It’s just one of the many toxic (yet beautiful) ornamentals I grow. 🥀

[tropicbreeze]

I grew up with one that my father had. It was right next to a very frequently used path. The only thing said about it was don't eat it. But some years later my mother heard in her circle of friends that the plant was used as a recreational drug. Dad was told he had to get rid of the plant so he dug it up. Shame really.

[Silas_Sancona]

4 minutes ago, tropicbreeze said:

I grew up with one that my father had. It was right next to a very frequently used path. The only thing said about it was don't eat it. But some years later my mother heard in her circle of friends that the plant was used as a recreational drug. Dad was told he had to get rid of the plant so he dug it up. Shame really.

Yes, in parts of Central / South America, there is illicit / criminal use ..A powder is made from some part of it that is than blown into the face of a victim. The victim supposedly remains conscious, but is unable to remember what was happening to them.  It is / has also used -correctly- by various indigenous groups down there to treat certain ailments. 

Have also read accounts where the pollen was added to tea ..or another drink... to poison someone.  ..A Black Widow, kind of situation i guess.. 

Regardless, simply growing it ain't gonna harm you..  Can't say that about Gympie Gympie though, lol.

 

[ZPalms]

I feel more confident planting it now, knowing they won't cause long term issues. I'm excited to plant mine and see how it does, I'm not sure where I'm gonna plant it so I'll have to do some planning so its visible, I'll post a picture of it when I get it in the ground or wherever I decide to put it 😍

[Than]

11 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I just have this idea in my head that being around it constantly I’m gonna be macrodosing poisoning and I shorten my life spam 😂

We will all die one day. We might as well enjoy some nice flowers before that.

[ZPalms]

6 minutes ago, ego said:

We will all die one day. We might as well enjoy some nice flowers before that.

Death terrifies me LOL

[Than]

3 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

Death terrifies me LOL

More than a cold winter that could kill your exotics? On a serious note I have had several sessions with a therapist about death-phobia so I feel you.

[ZPalms]

9 minutes ago, ego said:

More than a cold winter that could kill your exotics? On a serious note I have had several sessions with a therapist about death-phobia so I feel you.

LOL death still scares me more than a winter because I know they should be fine, I wanna look after them 😂

[D. Morrowii]

Here is an interesting account on it. 
 

https://www.acep.org/toxicology/newsroom/apr2020/angels-trumpet-and-devils-breath-a-trip-into-psychonaut-culture/

 

[Darold Petty]

9 hours ago, ZPalms said:

Death terrifies me LOL

Zpalms, I am not religious, and thus have a simplistic attitude, but where was your consciousness before your birth ?  Perhaps we will return there.  

Here is a somewhat cheeky video that might help.   

https://www.bbc.com/reel/playlist/existential-crisis?vpid=p0c59rmy

[PalmatierMeg]

I’ve had/currently have a Brugmansia in the front garden and had Daturas in the past. I’m aware of their hazards but have never had any problems dealing with them. I’m not aware of any neighborhood youth messing with them either. A dose of caution and care goes a long way when you have one but no reason to be fearful of it.

As for a fear of death, that is not uncommon when, like you, a person is young and has his whole life stretching ahead of him. By the time you reach the age of some of us you realize you can’t cheat the inevitable. As the late Hank Williams Sr sang: “I’ll never get out of this world alive.” Try to live every day to its fullest. No one is guaranteed tomorrow.

[flplantguy]

I purchased seeds of many varieties because i love them so much. Like others say more bark than bite lol.

As for the inevitability of death i feel you there too, i get very impatient since i always feel like time is running out and i feel this need to accomplish something that will remain after.  Your angel's trumpet will help here too you wont regret it!  Take cuttings in fall if you are concerned about cold, they take easily too and then you have gifts for friends.  And the smell in the evening is heavenly

[5am]

I grew daturas and brugmansias for a number of years. Of the brugs, charles grimaldi did really well as a potted plant in DFW. Come winter, just take a 1ft green cutting of your brug and stick it in a cup of water on the windowsill. It’ll be ready to go for spring!

Yes, they’re as toxic as they are beautiful. Wear gloves when you  handle them or else you can expect gardener’s mydriasis and to start floating. Those tropane alkaloids are on a whole different level.

Read Brugmansia and Datura: Angel's Trumpets and Thorn Apples by Ulrike and Hans-Georg Preissel. Its been 16 years since I bought it but I remember it kept my interest far more than other plant books. These are interesting plants with lots of history and some very beautiful varieties.

If you want datura seeds, I still have hundreds. I could probably learn how to ship them. Wish I could grow them again but I refuse to keep with young children around. There are at least stramonium, metel, or double metel purple, maybe inoxia, and yellow metel… only, the smaller bags they were in somehow got holes and now at least half are mixed. 

[iDesign]

11 hours ago, flplantguy said:

I purchased seeds of many varieties because i love them so much.

Do you perhaps mean "I purchased cuttings of many varieties?" I ask because you can't grow a named Angel Trumpet variety from seeds (and many of the seeds shown on EBay are sadly scams).  Just a PSA for anyone looking to buy some.

Best way to get Angel Trumpets is via CUTTINGS - which typically become available around October, when those in colder areas hack their plants to the ground. Their routine is to chop it up in the late Fall & sell the cuttings...  but keep a couple cuttings of each type in water (changed periodically) until spring (just in case the parent plant dies). The base plant is covered in thick mulch in hopes that it makes it through the winter... OR they just drag a bunch of pots inside (cutting off a lot of the branches) and let the plant go dormant. Happily, my "brugs" can stay outside all year.

What's cool about angel trumpets is there are a TON of unique varieties now, some with double or triple trumpets, or unusual colors. "Charles Grimaldi" is one of the original ones, and still the most common (hardy and has a nice smell). But there are more "exotic" varieties if you start to get more into it. Ive probably got between 20 & 30 types at this point (mostly small though).  I'm going to just keep my favorites after seeing how each of them looks in my area. So far my favorite is a "single" called "Peaches & Cream" - because it has unusual variegated foliage, and the flowers go through three colors. I'm still waiting for my "doubles" & "triples" to bloom though (like most people, I started with singles, and am now exploring the doubles & exotics).

Here's one example page showing a few of the many varieties. I can't personally order from here (since they don't ship to California), but it gives you an idea of the variety that is out there. 

https://www.angeltrumpetnursery.com/

[ZPalms]

12 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Zpalms, I am not religious, and thus have a simplistic attitude, but where was your consciousness before your birth ?  Perhaps we will return there.  

Here is a somewhat cheeky video that might help.   

https://www.bbc.com/reel/playlist/existential-crisis?vpid=p0c59rmy

LOL I'm terrified after that video

[Than]

1 hour ago, ZPalms said:

LOL I'm terrified after that video

What saved me was quite simple. I talked with a psychiatrist a few years back and he said "just don't think about death. Whenever such a thought comes to mind, change thoughts". At first I thought what a silly advice but when I actually tried it, it saved my life. Sometimes we must accept that some problems have no solution and stop thinking about it.

[ZPalms]

The lady I bought my angel trumpet from grew all hers from seed, I hope I get seeds one day, growing from seed is so fun 😍

[ZPalms]

18 minutes ago, ego said:

What saved me was quite simple. I talked with a psychiatrist a few years back and he said "just don't think about death. Whenever such a thought comes to mind, change thoughts". At first I thought what a silly advice but when I actually tried it, it saved my life. Sometimes we must accept that some problems have no solution and stop thinking about it.

I don't think of death ever but I like to be safe! 🤠

[Than]

6 hours ago, ZPalms said:

The lady I bought my angel trumpet from grew all hers from seed, I hope I get seeds one day, growing from seed is so fun 😍

Today I was looking at Brugmansia Hot Red on rps. It's out of stock unfortunately.. what a stunner!

[flplantguy]

The seeds i have are species and hybirds so i should get some coming up.  Ive germinated them before and it was spotty and i got all different colors out of a random batch. Only a few did well in largo (heat i think).  They are part of a batch from a store i am trying out to see if i buy again. Some easy stuff and some challenging ones so i hope to see what their quality is.

[iDesign]

20 minutes ago, flplantguy said:

Ive germinated them before and it was spotty and i got all different colors out of a random batch…

Growing from seeds can indeed be fun! If hybridizing from “exotic” parents you might even get lucky and grow something worth “registering”. Experienced brug growers often try hybridizing between their multi-trumpet brugs in hopes of growing a new type. Sadly, they throw the vast majority of plants away after flowering (due to seed-grown brugs usually being basic single trumpets), but sometimes they grow something new and cool 🥰

The “scam” comes when sellers post a photo of a “named” variety (usually one with multiple trumpets”) and claim you can grow the pictured plant from seed (only cuttings will give you a match to a named “exotic” variety). Sounds like you’re fine with being surprised- hopefully you’ll get lucky and grow your own “exotic”. 🧪

[ZPalms]

I'm just wanting to be sure but I can plant angel trumpet into full sun? or should I plant them in partly shaded area?

[flplantguy]

Here in florida all day sun is ok with water and fussing, but i think half day is better. Dappled under a tree but still very bright light should do it if you can, or morning sun afternoon shade.  Your cooler at night so i think even full sun is ok with food and water adjusted to match.  It will look droopy in the heat too so it will tell you if its unhappy.

[iDesign]

I do know they can handle a ton of sun. As a test, I put one in a very hot spot And it bloomed beautifully. However I’ve also heard there’s a limit (I live in a relatively mild area).

Here are a couple photos from a friend & fellow palm lover’s home who does a beautiful job mixing “brugs” with palms (you can see a hint of flamethrower palm in one pic)…

 

[iDesign]

In colder areas, the brugs don’t grow as large, but are still stunning. Here are a couple smaller ones (not mine). These ones are being grown as a “standard” - meaning they stake the trunk and remove all leaves below the “Y”…

Sadly, they look more like this in the winter (branches cut back - though still above the “Y”) and brought inside, as a cutting or in a pot…

I feel lucky to not need to bring mine inside, but it’s neat something so tropical can grow in colder areas.

[Than]

Mine are drooping and leaves are turning yellow and fall these days. Not sure why. Temperatures are quite high, about 90F (32 C) max and humidity is low, sometimes barely 30% in the afternoon. But there are plenty of brugmansias in my town so I guess mine should be OK with the weather.. Could it be that they are in pots?

[flplantguy]

Potted soil is hotter so i would bet so.  I try to shade my potted plants in black plastic pots with other plants blocking them.  That and the soil is more dynamic (stressful) in terms of temp flux and water content so they are not as stable to start. I had one a past friend would not let me plant. It died becuase it was in the pot too long and was moved too many times. It was a 30 gallon 7 footer with the best smell ive ever smelled but no cuttings took cuz i waited too long to take them.

[ZPalms]

1 hour ago, ego said:

Mine are drooping and leaves are turning yellow and fall these days. Not sure why. Temperatures are quite high, about 90F (32 C) max and humidity is low, sometimes barely 30% in the afternoon. But there are plenty of brugmansias in my town so I guess mine should be OK with the weather.. Could it be that they are in pots?

Mine were doing the same so I moved them into shade spot and the pot is tiny so the soil was drying out so quick and some leaves fell off

[ZPalms]

3 hours ago, flplantguy said:

Here in florida all day sun is ok with water and fussing, but i think half day is better. Dappled under a tree but still very bright light should do it if you can, or morning sun afternoon shade.  Your cooler at night so i think even full sun is ok with food and water adjusted to match.  It will look droopy in the heat too so it will tell you if its unhappy.

 

3 hours ago, iDesign said:

I do know they can handle a ton of sun. As a test, I put one in a very hot spot And it bloomed beautifully. However I’ve also heard there’s a limit (I live in a relatively mild area).

Here are a couple photos from a friend & fellow palm lover’s home who does a beautiful job mixing “brugs” with palms (you can see a hint of flamethrower palm in one pic)…

 

I have this spot next to this tree I thought about but I think it would be weird to put it in that spot since the spot around the tree needs work, I also have this open area where I thought of putting them and planting more stuff around it since the area between the washie is a wip bed but I’m unsure, Id like to place them in full sun and work to get them surrounded by other plants

whatever you guys suggest, would be appreciated. I should really take a photo of my angel trumpet when I get home. I’ll even take a better photo of the overall area because I’m pretty bad at figuring out the best design decisions

also don’t mind the yard, just one person with not much money, taking me a long time to design very slow

Edited July 27, 2023 by ZPalms