Fertilizer in pots outside

[Palmfarmer]

I am wondering what you guys use as fertilizer and the frequenzy. Information on the potting mix would be great as well. 

Currently I have these fertilizers at hand. Which would be best for a potted palm with a medium without any nutrition.

Liquids:

Fish Emulsion 5-1-1

Liquid kelp 

Solids: 

Triple 17

Gaia green 4-4-4 organic

Fish meal 

Bloodmeal 

Bonemeal 

Kelp

Alfalfa

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Palmfarmer

[Silas_Sancona]

26 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

I am wondering what you guys use as fertilizer and the frequenzy. Information on the potting mix would be great as well. 

Currently I have these fertilizers at hand. Which would be best for a potted palm with a medium without any nutrition.

Liquids:

Fish Emulsion 5-1-1

Liquid kelp 

Solids: 

Triple 17

Gaia green 4-4-4 organic

Fish meal 

Bloodmeal 

Bonemeal 

Kelp

Alfalfa

 

The " Triple 17 "  if a 17-17-17 formula is Wayyy too much N and Phosphorus for potted stuff.. Remember, Phosphorus moves slowly through soil, even in pots, I hit plants with a high Phos. fert ( Guano ) once in the spring.. That's it, for the year.    Too much Phos. will kill all the fungi / bacteria you want in your soil, esp. in pots. Keep that middle # lower than 5 if you're going to apply any fert formula w/ it included to your potted stuff through the year. K content, if that too is 17%  ...is ok though..

  Rest looks good to me / 20+ years of experience.. ( 99% of my collection atm is in containers )  Remember, with liquids, they will pass through the soil faster than a solid / time release.. Great for a " snack " but might be wasting money if using  just  liquid ferts. 

[SeanK]

Miracle Grow: one capsule per gallon water. Once every 2 weeks. I soak with the hose, then use the fertilizer mix 30-60 minutes later.

Edited August 11, 2023 by SeanK

[Palmfarmer]

On 8/10/2023 at 4:27 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

The " Triple 17 "  if a 17-17-17 formula is Wayyy too much N and Phosphorus for potted stuff.. Remember, Phosphorus moves slowly through soil, even in pots, I hit plants with a high Phos. fert ( Guano ) once in the spring.. That's it, for the year.    Too much Phos. will kill all the fungi / bacteria you want in your soil, esp. in pots. Keep that middle # lower than 5 if you're going to apply any fert formula w/ it included to your potted stuff through the year. K content, if that too is 17%  ...is ok though..

  Rest looks good to me / 20+ years of experience.. ( 99% of my collection atm is in containers )  Remember, with liquids, they will pass through the soil faster than a solid / time release.. Great for a " snack " but might be wasting money if using  just  liquid ferts. 

What you actually are saying is having all NPK numbers equal is bad for a syntetic fertilizers? 

Why are 17 too high when you can use less? The triple 17 is slow realese and recommended dose is only 3 teaspons per pot for 3 months. Would this really damage the soil over time? I have put the triple 17 on hold for now. 

What i did is I made Something similar to Garys Top pot. My mix is Coco Coir, Pumice, Perlite, Sand and Biochar. 

I then worked in 4-4-4 Gaia Green all Purpose Organic and watered everything in with some fish emulsion and kelp. Lets see how this works out the palm is a Phoenix Datilfera. 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Palmfarmer

[Silas_Sancona]

2 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

What you actually are saying is having all NPK numbers equal is bad for a syntetic fertilizers? 

Why are 17 too high when you can use less? The triple 17 is slow realese and recommended dose is only 3 teaspons per pot for 3 months. Would this really damage the soil over time? I have put the triple 17 on hold for now. 

What i did is I made Something similar to Garys Top pot. My mix is Coco Coir, Pumice, Perlite, Sand and Biochar. 

I then worked in 4-4-4 Gaia Green all Purpose Organic and watered everything in with some fish emulsion and kelp. 

 

High # ferts ..Chemical / Synthetic Ferts esp. will release a higher amount of the NPK ratio, even the slower release ( Though at a slower rate of course )  17% Nitrogen will push whatever you apply it to to push lots of tender new growth rapidly.. Which isn't always a good thing..  17% Phosphorus is ok as a " ...awakening from a winter nap "  application, but will kill all the " soil Flora " if applied regularly, esp. things in containers..

Remember, a majority of Synth. Ferts are derived of Salts.. The higher the # / % ' age of each nutrient in that formula, the higher the salt content.. More salt moving through your soil, more damage it can / will do to everything you want in your soil to help encourage optimal, but steady growth / health.

Because it is ( generally speaking ) the nutrient that degrades the fastest of the 3 majors ( NPK ),  the 17% ratio of K / Potassium, isn't as bad for the plants, though they will only use so much of it too as it passes through the soil ..in pots,  or through the root systems of stuff planted in the ground...  This is why many recommend applying an 11%  ..or higher.. ratio  K feeding 2 or 3 X's/ yr.

All of this ...how quickly ( or not ) the components in that fert are released... will vary depending on how much it rains / how much you irrigate of course. Still, all it can take is one good downpour to flood the soil around your plants w/ too much nutrients / salts that those nutrients contain.

I'd use the 17-17-17 as my " wake up sleepy heads "  feeding in the spring,  though not on seedlings, or really young plants, unless you want them to burn..  Then keep the N around 8%,  Phosphorus less than 3-5% ( or just don't apply any. in ground plants esp since  Phosphorus is very common in most soils ),  and K in the 8-15% range for fert application(s) done in the summer.. Then apply just some K in the fall.. 

Yes, you could also give things something w/ N in it at that time,  but, you'll be risking the plants pushing new growth as you head into winter..  We all know what growth can get nipped ..first.. during ..even a mild frost or freeze event..  ..So, yeah,   buyer beware on that..

The 4-4-4 is perfect... esp. for small things.  No need to add anything else until next Spring, when you can add a little more of the same ratio fert, and maybe a dash of higher K fert next summer / Fall..   ..I myself wouldn't recommend any of the triple 17 until the plants are at say the " Can go into a 5gal container " size.. ..Then give them a pick me up as you step them up into 5's ..or bigger,  when you do that..

Organics will also help get the process of attracting the beneficial microbes you want thriving in your soil going as well.

Hope this makes sense..

[Palmfarmer]

9 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

High # ferts ..Chemical / Synthetic Ferts esp. will release a higher amount of the NPK ratio, even the slower release ( Though at a slower rate of course )  17% Nitrogen will push whatever you apply it to to push lots of tender new growth rapidly.. Which isn't always a good thing..  17% Phosphorus is ok as a " ...awakening from a winter nap "  application, but will kill all the " soil Flora " if applied regularly, esp. things in containers..

Remember, a majority of Synth. Ferts are derived of Salts.. The higher the # / % ' age of each nutrient in that formula, the higher the salt content.. More salt moving through your soil, more damage it can / will do to everything you want in your soil to help encourage optimal, but steady growth / health.

Because it is ( generally speaking ) the nutrient that degrades the fastest of the 3 majors ( NPK ),  the 17% ratio of K / Potassium, isn't as bad for the plants, though they will only use so much of it too as it passes through the soil ..in pots,  or through the root systems of stuff planted in the ground...  This is why many recommend applying an 11%  ..or higher.. ratio  K feeding 2 or 3 X's/ yr.

All of this ...how quickly ( or not ) the components in that fert are released... will vary depending on how much it rains / how much you irrigate of course. Still, all it can take is one good downpour to flood the soil around your plants w/ too much nutrients / salts that those nutrients contain.

I'd use the 17-17-17 as my " wake up sleepy heads "  feeding in the spring,  though not on seedlings, or really young plants, unless you want them to burn..  Then keep the N around 8%,  Phosphorus less than 3-5% ( or just don't apply any. in ground plants esp since  Phosphorus is very common in most soils ),  and K in the 8-15% range for fert application(s) done in the summer.. Then apply just some K in the fall.. 

Yes, you could also give things something w/ N in it at that time,  but, you'll be risking the plants pushing new growth as you head into winter..  We all know what growth can get nipped ..first.. during ..even a mild frost or freeze event..  ..So, yeah,   buyer beware on that..

The 4-4-4 is perfect... esp. for small things.  No need to add anything else until next Spring, when you can add a little more of the same ratio fert, and maybe a dash of higher K fert next summer / Fall..   ..I myself wouldn't recommend any of the triple 17 until the plants are at say the " Can go into a 5gal container " size.. ..Then give them a pick me up as you step them up into 5's ..or bigger,  when you do that..

Organics will also help get the process of attracting the beneficial microbes you want thriving in your soil going as well.

Hope this makes sense..

Thanks for the great explanations. Actually the Date palm I potted up is in a 12g/45L container. Its oversized for the palm. However I am confident It will not cause any trouble because it drains so well and Rain is non existent here other than for late summer. Here is a Picture: 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

@palmfarmer

Here's a couple more things that are worth a read..  Note: While Plumeria are not Palms,  the same processes occur and  what the link below mentions regarding each " major " nutrient's role, is the same for Palms as it would be for Plumeria..  Yes, it was published back in '09, but what the person who wrote it demonstrated back then, has been repeated numerous times in more current research.

https://www.prlog.org/10192103-high-middle-number-plumeria-fertilizer-information.html

While the Dave's Garden post i screen grabbed, is from 2000, overall,  info / research regarding the effects of using that ..or similar... stuff has only grown in the 23 years since.  While targeted to Miracle Gro, the same effects can occur with similar types of synthetic fertilizers..