Sabal Palmetto or Sabal Mexicana for Texas

[MarcusH]

I can't decide between S.Palmetto and S.Mexicana. I'm not worried about the cold hardiness since I'm in 8b/9a . I know the Mexicana grows a bigger canopy but I'm afraid it could grow too big . Which one is faster growing ?Which one would you prefer for SoCen TX climate ?

[Chester B]

Mexicana for sure. I’ll be planting them at my new place on TX whenever that happens.

Based on others experiences it seems that palmetto is faster. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Chester B

[Dwarf Fan]

There are tons of both here on North Padre Island the very noticeable difference between the two are the the larger trunk, crown, canopy and seeds on the Sabal Mexicana.

Sabal Palmetto has a noticeably more thin trunk in comparison to the Mexicana and also a much more compact canopy, crown and smaller seeds. They definitely grow taller faster than the Mexicana. The S. Palmetto trunk is also more slender than the many Washingtonia Filibustas here.

I prefer the more delicate and “sexy” trunk and fronds of the S. Palmetto but if you like the idea of a more “dinosaur/Jurassic Park” looking Palm than you might prefer the S. Mexicana. My neighbor has a S.Mexicana and the thing isn’t even maybe 15’ tall but the crown is probably 12’+ wide it takes up so much of his yard I would definitely never plant/want to own one myself it is too much of a sky hog because of the ridiculously wide/oversized crown IMHO.

I have not been here that long but I do know that everyone has different taste in Palms, so what I like may not be what you like and vice versa. Go with whichever one you feel more passionate/strongly about that is how I choose.

I also like the way the S. Palmetto has that dramatic downward curve like Butia fronds to me that just makes them look more tropical as well and less like a desert Palm.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Dwarf Fan

[MattInRaleigh]

I think the sabal mexicana is more drought tolerant from what I’ve read. Depending on your climate’s rainfall and your ability irrigate, it may be something to consider.

[MarcusH]

I love both types of palms but as Dwarf Fan mentioned earlier the canopy could be an issue . I already have one Mexican Fan Palm planted in front of the house .  Even Palmettos can get quite large canopies.  If I would have the space I would choose a Mexicana. Love the looks of it.  Here in San Antonio we have a lot of Sabals but sometimes I'm having a hard time to identify them.  San Antonio is pretty dry overall but Palmettos don't have a problem growing here. 

[Xerarch]

I prefer S mexicana, I like the large stature and landscape statement it makes.  Also admittedly I just like the fact that it's far less of a common palm in SE US where palmetto dominates in every state except Texas, it's our own special palm.  Here are some in front of a local nursery that I always think look nice.

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, Xerarch said:

I prefer S mexicana, I like the large stature and landscape statement it makes.  Also admittedly I just like the fact that it's far less of a common palm in SE US where palmetto dominates in every state except Texas, it's our own special palm.  Here are some in front of a local nursery that I always think look nice.

So those are Mexicana ? 

[Xerarch]

13 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

So those are Mexicana ? 

Yes, these are trimmed up but you can still tell the crown is much more open and loose looking compared to palmetto 

[ZPalms]

I’m glad I looked at this before planting my mexicana, I was about to plant them not so far from each other 🤪

[Xerarch]

3 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I’m glad I looked at this before planting my mexicana, I was about to plant them not so far from each other 🤪

Here are some street view shots of some closer spacing for S mexicana here in town. This planting is quite impressive, so hard to do justice in photos, especially street view

 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

On 8/11/2023 at 10:06 PM, MarcusH said:

Which one is faster growing ?Which one would you prefer for SoCen TX climate ?

@jimmyt had a side by side comparison in his garden of the 2. Not positive if they survived Palmageddon tho. 

T J 

[MarcusH]

51 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

@jimmyt had a side by side comparison in his garden of the 2. Not positive if they survived Palmageddon tho. 

T J 

So guys help me to identify this Sabal please. I would say it's a S.Palmetto if so the crown is big enough for our front yard.  

[Dwarf Fan]

7 hours ago, MarcusH said:

So guys help me to identify this Sabal please. I would say it's a S.Palmetto if so the crown is big enough for our front yard.  

Looks like a S. Palmetto to me I don’t think that S. Mexicana ever does that downward bend with it’s fronds like a Butia.

Check out how big the crown is on the Mexicana I posted below, look at the width of the crown on a tree that is maybe around 15’ in height and without busting out a tape measure approximately 12’ WIDE! To me that is just way too wide unless you are on some acreage. The age of the Mexicana in the pic below is approximately 25 years old.

22 hours ago, Xerarch said:

I prefer S mexicana, I like the large stature and landscape statement it makes.  Also admittedly I just like the fact that it's far less of a common palm in SE US where palmetto dominates in every state except Texas, it's our own special palm.  Here are some in front of a local nursery that I always think look nice.

Okay I am gonna call that a bit o’ “cherry picking” most S. Mexicanas around Corpus are not nearly that nicely cared for and trimmed! I feel there are two groups those who “own” Palm trees, then there are those who “care” for Palm trees. It always shows when the owners are of the latter.

 I do like that take on the Sabal Mexicana being “our own special palm”. Mexico has the Washingtonia Robusta. California has the Washingtonia Filifera. Texas has the Sabal Mexicana. 🤠

That nursery does keep those Mexicanas looking picture perfect though I have to admit they catch my eye every time I go in there too. I have only bought Bamboo from the nursery above because they don’t have much of a variety in Palm selection, but there is a really nice old timer employee there that is cool to chat plants with, also their prices are a bit on the high side and they really know how to screw the pooch on “special orders”. 🤨

20 hours ago, MarcusH said:

So those are Mexicana ? 

Definitely.

20 hours ago, Xerarch said:

Yes, these are trimmed up but you can still tell the crown is much more open and loose looking compared to palmetto 

Here is a “neglected” Mexicana on the Island that has probably never been fertilized in it’s life, doesn’t get watered regularly and is growing is pure beach sand. 

It has also never been cleaned up with boots removed so it gives a good contrast of what a “trimmed” vs “natural” Mexicana look like. I always prefer the boots trimmed off or “skinned” look when ever it is an option for a Palm tree.

But, what this Mexicana does have working well for it are it is South facing so it gets TONS on sun and it is protected from the high winds to the East and heat of the afternoon sun to the West as it it perfectly tucked between the protruding portions of homes on either side.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Dwarf Fan

[ZPalms]

I have n

16 hours ago, Xerarch said:

Here are some street view shots of some closer spacing for S mexicana here in town. This planting is quite impressive, so hard to do justice in photos, especially street view

 

I wonder if that would be good for me or maybe I should spread them more apart, I'm scared to have colliding crowns 🤔

[jwitt]

Looks to me, they curved away from each other. Look at the bend in the trunks.

Edited August 14, 2023 by jwitt

[ZPalms]

9 minutes ago, jwitt said:

Looks to me, they curved away from each other. Look at the bend in the trunks.

Good point, I don't think I'd want them doing that, Im so bad at figuring out my garden beds and good places, I'll have to just pot them up and wait next season 

[MarcusH]

Just like I said before I really enjoy looking at both Mexicana and Palmetto but down the road it's about the space I have in my front yard . I'm going to add some pictures to give you guys an idea of how much space I have. My biggest grower is the Mexican fan palm but I'm not too worried about it because it will tower over the house in about 10 to 15 years maybe less I don't know.  I also have a Queen palm planted since early last year.  This is going to be a replacement of my Queen since it's not cold hardy in my area and I decided not to protect it anymore.  I want palms that can withstand our occasional freezes . My Robusta should be fine if not it will also be replaced by a sabal. I think I should go with a Palmetto since the crown is smaller . I do prefer the full crown looks not the look of a paint brush that I often see in Florida just the cabagge look .  I have the feeling the Mexicana crown will be too much for the space I have .  The two palms in the front are about 13ft apart from each other .  I do water and fertilizer all of my palms on a regular schedule so they get nice and big. What do you guys think I should go with ? Also I'm not worried about some curves that kind of looks good in my opinion only . 

[Xenon]

Any interest in Sabal rosei? It's a bit smaller (for a Sabal) with a thin trunk and upright, open crown. Takes all of the cold and heat too 

[WSimpson]

On 8/11/2023 at 11:06 PM, MarcusH said:

I can't decide between S.Palmetto and S.Mexicana. I'm not worried about the cold hardiness since I'm in 8b/9a . I know the Mexicana grows a bigger canopy but I'm afraid it could grow too big . Which one is faster growing ?Which one would you prefer for SoCen TX climate ?

Gary Holler in New Bern , NC  grows some real fat Palmettos (  Fat Boys )  but they haven't gotten too tall yet . I don't know how much space you have but here are some big ones in Wilmington , NC .

 

[MarcusH]

14 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Any interest in Sabal rosei? It's a bit smaller (for a Sabal) with a thin trunk and upright, open crown. Takes all of the cold and heat too 

Hmm interesting.  Doesn't seem to be a common sabal here in San Antonio and probably hard to find a mature species at the nursery.  I do like the looks of it. Where do they grow in Texas Jonathan? I'm planning on buying a 7' to 8 ' clear trunk sabal once my Queen gets taken out by a freeze. I'm just planning ahead. 

[MarcusH]

3 minutes ago, Will Simpson said:

Gary Holler in New Bern , NC  grows some real fat Palmettos (  Fat Boys )  but they haven't gotten too tall yet . I don't know how much space you have but here are some big ones in Wilmington , NC .

 

I have about 13 ft from the trunk of my Mexican fan palm.  I don't mind the crowns to touch each other at some point I know my mexican fan will grow much faster so that rendezvous won't be for that long.  

[Xenon]

4 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Hmm interesting.  Doesn't seem to be a common sabal here in San Antonio and probably hard to find a mature species at the nursery.  I do like the looks of it. Where do they grow in Texas Jonathan? I'm planning on buying a 7' to 8 ' clear trunk sabal once my Queen gets taken out by a freeze. I'm just planning ahead. 

Probably won't find anything big but seedlings/saplings are easy to come by (check out Sabal King, I believe he has it in the ground in N Texas too). I got mine locally from a collector and his didn't seem phased by 14Fish in 2021; mine had some minor burn on the old leaves from 16F last year. Seems slightly more tender than S. mexicana but should be fully bud hardy to any apocalyptic cold. It looks quite striking even as a young palm, very upright and rigid. 

[MarcusH]

14 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Probably won't find anything big but seedlings/saplings are easy to come by (check out Sabal King, I believe he has it in the ground in N Texas too). I got mine locally from a collector and his didn't seem phased by 14Fish in 2021; mine had some minor burn on the old leaves from 16F last year. Seems slightly more tender than S. mexicana but should be fully bud hardy to any apocalyptic cold. It looks quite striking even as a young palm, very upright and rigid. 

Palms are such an addiction if I could I would plant a few more haha but my wife already told me no more.  I can only replace dead ones. I also have one Filifera growing in a pot using it as a back up palm for the Queen in the backyard.  The issue I have with the queen is that it's already August and the one that got defoliated in December last year is just growing it's 4th frond ( just a spear so far) . If it defoliates every year the tree isn't really going to look that great most of the time a year.  I like something that keeps looking nice or recovers quickly like a Washingtonia.  

[jwitt]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

Palms are such an addiction if I could I would plant a few more haha but my wife already told me no more.  I can only replace dead ones. I also have one Filifera growing in a pot using it as a back up palm for the Queen in the backyard.  The issue I have with the queen is that it's already August and the one that got defoliated in December last year is just growing it's 4th frond ( just a spear so far) . If it defoliates every year the tree isn't really going to look that great most of the time a year.  I like something that keeps looking nice or recovers quickly like a Washingtonia.  

Wive's.

Mine is good at making palm seed vanish. 

If only there was a market for palm/wife trade.  

Got me thinking......

[MarcusH]

Just now, jwitt said:

Wive's.

Mine is good at making palm seed vanish. 

If only there was a market for palm/wife trade.  

Got me thinking......

Hahaha that was a good one. We can't live without them either so it comes down to compromising . Hide those seeds my friend. 

[fr8train]

What size are you planning on getting? Like a 5 gallon plant, or one that's already trunking? 

[jimmyt]

On 8/13/2023 at 9:51 AM, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

@jimmyt had a side by side comparison in his garden of the 2. Not positive if they survived Palmageddon tho. 

T J 

Both survived Palmegeddon at -2 F. with mild freeze damage only to the fronds.  Unprotected!  The palmetto grows slightly faster and the mexicana has a mildly larger trunk and canopy.  The mexicana tolerates and looks better with the drought and dry summer central Texas winds.   Both have proven once established, to be much hardier than I imagined. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by jimmyt

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

14 minutes ago, jimmyt said:

Both survived Palmegeddon at -2 F. Unprotected!

That is awesome to hear and now we must have pics haha 

T J 

[MarcusH]

Since I'm an inpatient person I'm going to go with a 7 to 8 ft clear trunk. Last year I went to our local nursery and he gave me a price for a Texas Sabal . $2500 incl installation.  Let that sink in.  Here's the thing.  The front side of our house gets too much sun there's absolutely no shade and with the palms I already have I'm trying to create  bit of a shade .  The Queen palm I have doesn't provide shade if it defoliates every year . Recovery time takes too long.  The Mexican fan isn't helping much either.  Too fast of a grower.  Now doing so much research I think the Palmetto's canopy will be too small if I just go with one.  I'm having such a hard time deciding.  I love the looks of a Mexicana very little more to be honest.  I think Palmettos look pretty good in a small group of at least 2.  They're both bulletproof in our area 8b/9a . 

[fr8train]

20 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Since I'm an inpatient person I'm going to go with a 7 to 8 ft clear trunk. Last year I went to our local nursery and he gave me a price for a Texas Sabal . $2500 incl installation.  Let that sink in.  Here's the thing.  The front side of our house gets too much sun there's absolutely no shade and with the palms I already have I'm trying to create  bit of a shade .  The Queen palm I have doesn't provide shade if it defoliates every year . Recovery time takes too long.  The Mexican fan isn't helping much either.  Too fast of a grower.  Now doing so much research I think the Palmetto's canopy will be too small if I just go with one.  I'm having such a hard time deciding.  I love the looks of a Mexicana very little more to be honest.  I think Palmettos look pretty good in a small group of at least 2.  They're both bulletproof in our area 8b/9a . 

I see, yeah, I understand. It can take decades to get them up to that size, so it's nice to cut all those years out and get a nice mature palm.

Where have you looked? Palm Buddha? 

[MarcusH]

1 minute ago, fr8train said:

I see, yeah, I understand. It can take decades to get them up to that size, so it's nice to cut all those years out and get a nice mature palm.

Where have you looked? Palm Buddha? 

Yes Palm Buddha I know it's not the cheapest place to go but he's got a pretty good variety of palms and tons of Sabals.  

[fr8train]

11 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Yes Palm Buddha I know it's not the cheapest place to go but he's got a pretty good variety of palms and tons of Sabals.  

Yeah they've got legit mexicanas too, along with a bunch of other cool stuff. 

[MarcusH]

Now someone tells me what kind of Sabals frond and back I'm looking at please. Expert advice. 

[Xerarch]

2 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Now someone tells me what kind of Sabals frond and back I'm looking at please. Expert advice. 

One in front/right looks like mexicana for sure, there is variability in these, I’m not ready to say the one in back is 100% palmetto although the form does favor it, palmetto has a different shade of green from mexicana, hard to tell from the photo. The way to tell for sure is look at the seeds, palmetto seeds are far smaller than mexicana, that will be your giveaway. 

[jwitt]

Petioles bases look completely different. 

Palmetto?

 

 

 

Mexicana

 

[MarcusH]

Thank you guys I knew you could help me out here.  I looked up more pictures and videos on YT just to see the differences . I see a lot of S.Mexicana planted here in San Antonio.  I think this palm would give our front yard some shade , more shade than a S.Palmetto would provide and it also grows a bit slower and less tall than a Palmetto . That's what I've learned so far.  I want to create shade . I need two Palmettos to create the same shade .  I know Mexicana can grow very large in shady areas.  There's one here at the Riverwalk with massive long petioles and leafes . 

[Reyes Vargas]

The Mexicana will definitely give you more shade.  Here is mine that grew on it's own planted by a bird I suspect.

[MarcusH]

2 hours ago, Reyes Vargas said:

The Mexicana will definitely give you more shade.  Here is mine that grew on it's own planted by a bird I suspect.

What a beautiful Mexicana. How tall is the trunk and the diameter of the crown at the widest point if you don't mind asking me ?

[Reyes Vargas]

@MarcusH this palm has just under 5 feet of trunk and the crown is approximately 25 feet at its widest point.  I say approximately since I only have a 16 foot tape measure 

[MarcusH]

4 minutes ago, Reyes Vargas said:

@MarcusH this palm has just under 5 feet of trunk and the crown is approximately 25 feet at its widest point.  I say approximately since I only have a 16 foot tape measure 

 

4 minutes ago, Reyes Vargas said:

@MarcusH this palm has just under 5 feet of trunk and the crown is approximately 25 feet at its widest point.  I say approximately since I only have a 16 foot tape measure 

Definitely an impressive size .  For now I have about 13 ft from the trunk of my Queen palm to the Mexican palm . Like I mentioned earlier the Queen will be replaced by a sabal in the near future.  I don't mind the crowns touching each other at some point that will provide extra shade for a few years .