Banana and Ants!

[ZPalms]

I’ve been having a big issue with ants all over the place, under my pots, under my banana tree and they are even ruining the bunch of bananas and killing the flowers before they can produce anything!
 

Anyone know anything safe for palms and produce that gets rid of ants or anything that works to get rid of them?

Also does anyone know when I can harvest the bunch?

Edited August 15, 2023 by ZPalms

[happypalms]

33 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

I’ve been having a big issue with ants all over the place, under my pots, under my banana tree and they are even ruining the bunch of bananas and killing the flowers before they can produce anything!
 

Anyone know anything safe for palms and produce that gets rid of ants or anything that works to get rid of them?

Also does anyone know when I can harvest the bunch?

 

34 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

I’ve been having a big issue with ants all over the place, under my pots, under my banana tree and they are even ruining the bunch of bananas and killing the flowers before they can produce anything!
 

Anyone know anything safe for palms and produce that gets rid of ants or anything that works to get rid of them?

Also does anyone know when I can harvest the bunch?

If you get rid of the qu

35 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

I’ve been having a big issue with ants all over the place, under my pots, under my banana tree and they are even ruining the bunch of bananas and killing the flowers before they can produce anything!
 

Anyone know anything safe for palms and produce that gets rid of ants or anything that works to get rid of them?

Also does anyone know when I can harvest the bunch?

If you get rid of the queen that’s the tricky part end of the colony 

[D. Morrowii]

Usually the ants are farming some other insect like aphids or mealy bugs. If you find those under the leaves or elsewhere you can treat with a water, soap and alcohol mixture by spraying it directly on them. To control the ants you can get those Terro spikes. These are just sugar and boron so safe to use around the garden. The sugar attracts them and the boron (borax) kills them. They take it back to the nest as well so hopefully it takes care of the colony causing your headaches. 
 

As far as harvesting, the fruit will lighten up in color and the squarish ridges will round out or actually the fruit will plump up. It takes some patience. Usually its around 100 days + from the time the flower starts opening up. The upper most hands will start to turn yellow and thats when you want to cut the clump off. 

[mnorell]

In what way are your flowers or fruit being destroyed by ants? They look extremely healthy to me judging by your pictures. The ants may very well be heading to the flower nectaries, or as Dean mentions above, they could be collecting honeydew from some sucking insects like mealy-bugs, aphids or scale. However, it is highly unlikely that the ants are causing any damage whatsoever to your flowers or fruit. There are species of ant in the tropics that can cause blemishes on the peel, but even this affects only marketability and not the quality of the fruit. 

What you are probably misdiagnosing as damage is the normal development of banana flowers and fruit. When an edible banana plant flowers, the first flowers produced are female, and each flower's ovary then expands into a fruit (this is a parthenogenic process in seedless bananas, no male flowers or pollen are required to set fruit). After a certain number of female flowers develop, male flowers take over and continue to be produced. These flowers cannot form fruit (they have no ovary) but the inflorescence will keep elongating and elongating with smaller and smaller bracts. It is common practice in commercial agricultural settings to cut the flower-stalk after the last banana has formed to conserve energy for the plant. The number of female flowers will be determined not only by genetics (very notable in some forms such as the Thousand Fingers cultivar) but by the resources available to create fruit. If you don't have enough macronutrients and micronutrients, and also if the plant is still young (and without the huge reserve stored in a large, mature rhizome under the soil) it will likely produce a smaller bunch with the first few pseudostems. 

I would examine the inflorescence/infructescence for sucking insects (spray them with a jet of water or perhaps spray some diluted dish-soap on them) and forget about troubling yourself with destroying the ants. You can cut the inflorescence-stalk a few inches below the last banana and no more flowers will develop (=no nectaries to attract ants). The ants will then go away on their own.

Bananas are an interesting and complex group of plants and you may want to research further on the internet, and certainly go over to bananas.org and join up, there is a wealth of information and a lot of very knowledgeable banana-growers there. Enjoy your bunch! (And remember to give your plant plenty of potassium.)

Oh...and it's usually about three months until harvest. They will fill out and you will start seeing some yellow, at that point you can harvest the whole bunch if you like, bring it inside and place on your refrigerator and watch them ripen one by one. Or you can leave them on the plant if no frost is forecast. Just remember to cut them all and bring inside the day before your first frost is forecast, they will still ripen.

[NorCalWill]

6 hours ago, D. Morrowii said:

Usually the ants are farming some other insect like aphids or mealy bugs. If you find those under the leaves or elsewhere you can treat with a water, soap and alcohol mixture by spraying it directly on them. To control the ants you can get those Terro spikes. These are just sugar and boron so safe to use around the garden. The sugar attracts them and the boron (borax) kills them. They take it back to the nest as well so hopefully it takes care of the colony causing your headaches. 
 

As far as harvesting, the fruit will lighten up in color and the squarish ridges will round out or actually the fruit will plump up. It takes some patience. Usually its around 100 days + from the time the flower starts opening up. The upper most hands will start to turn yellow and thats when you want to cut the clump off. 

And termites! Wherever there are termites, there will be ants. All of my fences have ant freeways on them, and all of my fences are being slowly eaten by termites.

[Silas_Sancona]

14 minutes ago, NorCalWill said:

And termites! Wherever there are termites, there will be ants. All of my fences have ant freeways on them, and all of my fences are being slowly eaten by termites.

There in Nor. Cal, sure..  though i usually had one or the other in San Jose..

Here, where most areas have done away w/ wood fencing,  favoring block,  Plenty of Ants ( 4 sp in the yard. I leave them alone ) but have yet to see Termites, let alone the " bad " ones that can wreck homes.

[Silas_Sancona]

6 hours ago, D. Morrowii said:

Usually the ants are farming some other insect like aphids or mealy bugs. If you find those under the leaves or elsewhere you can treat with a water, soap and alcohol mixture by spraying it directly on them. To control the ants you can get those Terro spikes. These are just sugar and boron so safe to use around the garden. The sugar attracts them and the boron (borax) kills them. They take it back to the nest as well so hopefully it takes care of the colony causing your headaches. 
 

As far as harvesting, the fruit will lighten up in color and the squarish ridges will round out or actually the fruit will plump up. It takes some patience. Usually its around 100 days + from the time the flower starts opening up. The upper most hands will start to turn yellow and thats when you want to cut the clump off. 

True in many cases, but Ants will also visit specific plants which ..or whenever they produce sugar-y "  Honey dew "  ...either from various appendages on leaves, petioles / leafstalks, Flower parts, and sometimes as fruit is developing..

Certain Legumes like Acacia sps are notable in the sense that the plants will produce dew producing glands to encourage the ants to protect said tree from other insects / leaf eaters. Some Acacia species will also produce other structures to house said Ant sp. Bullhorn Acacia for example. 

[Merlyn]

I use the Amdro fire ant bait (Hydramethylnon) for pretty much all my ant problems.  It works great on smaller mounds, killing them off in a few days.  Bigger fire ant mounds sometimes split up into several small ones, but I just have to walk around and check a week after I hit a large mound.  Most of the time I find the mound before it gets too big.  I'd guess (like other above comments) that the ants are going after some other insect.  If so you'll need to fix both infestations at the same time.  Otherwise ants are known to "farm" aphids and other bugs by literally carrying them from plant to plant to spread them around. 

[mnorell]

4 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

True in many cases, but Ants will also visit specific plants which ..or whenever they produce sugar-y "  Honey dew "  ...either from various appendages on leaves, petioles / leafstalks, Flower parts, and sometimes as fruit is developing..

Certain Legumes like Acacia sps are notable in the sense that the plants will produce dew producing glands to encourage the ants to protect said tree from other insects / leaf eaters. Some Acacia species will also produce other structures to house said Ant sp. Bullhorn Acacia for example. 

One fast, easy-to-grow plant that creates these specialized extrafloral nectaries is Senna alata. When I grew that plant in Natchez, Mississippi, large ants appeared seemingly out of nowhere to inhabit the plants, feed on that nectar, and they guarded it tenaciously. When I grew it in the Florida Keys, I never really noticed any (though they may have been there), and here in the desert, small ants run all over the plant but don't seem to be in tune with the whole symbiotic relationship the way that those big ants in Mississippi were. These mutualisms are fascinating to me. Though I'm glad that my Cecropia obtusifolia doesn't have any of its mutualists in the vicinity to inhabit its hollow stems and protect it...it does not sound pleasant to accidentally interfere with such a symbiosis...

[Silas_Sancona]

3 hours ago, mnorell said:

One fast, easy-to-grow plant that creates these specialized extrafloral nectaries is Senna alata. When I grew that plant in Natchez, Mississippi, large ants appeared seemingly out of nowhere to inhabit the plants, feed on that nectar, and they guarded it tenaciously. When I grew it in the Florida Keys, I never really noticed any (though they may have been there), and here in the desert, small ants run all over the plant but don't seem to be in tune with the whole symbiotic relationship the way that those big ants in Mississippi were. These mutualisms are fascinating to me. Though I'm glad that my Cecropia obtusifolia doesn't have any of its mutualists in the vicinity to inhabit its hollow stems and protect it...it does not sound pleasant to accidentally interfere with such a symbiosis...

Never been the biggest fan of that sp. though the leaves are alright. 

Have ants on pretty much all the other native Senna i'm growing though, for the same reason..  They also like the Sunflowers ..which is weird because i don't think the Sunflowers offer Honey dew and the ants cluster around the petioles of the leaves along the stem..  No bug farmin' goin' on,  so not attracted by that.

Didn't realize it but we have -at least- two sps of Twig Ants here. Same sp. that occurs in FL may also be present.. Is native just south of the border.

[ZPalms]

13 hours ago, mnorell said:

In what way are your flowers or fruit being destroyed by ants? They look extremely healthy to me judging by your pictures. The ants may very well be heading to the flower nectaries, or as Dean mentions above, they could be collecting honeydew from some sucking insects like mealy-bugs, aphids or scale. However, it is highly unlikely that the ants are causing any damage whatsoever to your flowers or fruit. There are species of ant in the tropics that can cause blemishes on the peel, but even this affects only marketability and not the quality of the fruit. 

What you are probably misdiagnosing as damage is the normal development of banana flowers and fruit. When an edible banana plant flowers, the first flowers produced are female, and each flower's ovary then expands into a fruit (this is a parthenogenic process in seedless bananas, no male flowers or pollen are required to set fruit). After a certain number of female flowers develop, male flowers take over and continue to be produced. These flowers cannot form fruit (they have no ovary) but the inflorescence will keep elongating and elongating with smaller and smaller bracts. It is common practice in commercial agricultural settings to cut the flower-stalk after the last banana has formed to conserve energy for the plant. The number of female flowers will be determined not only by genetics (very notable in some forms such as the Thousand Fingers cultivar) but by the resources available to create fruit. If you don't have enough macronutrients and micronutrients, and also if the plant is still young (and without the huge reserve stored in a large, mature rhizome under the soil) it will likely produce a smaller bunch with the first few pseudostems. 

I would examine the inflorescence/infructescence for sucking insects (spray them with a jet of water or perhaps spray some diluted dish-soap on them) and forget about troubling yourself with destroying the ants. You can cut the inflorescence-stalk a few inches below the last banana and no more flowers will develop (=no nectaries to attract ants). The ants will then go away on their own.

Bananas are an interesting and complex group of plants and you may want to research further on the internet, and certainly go over to bananas.org and join up, there is a wealth of information and a lot of very knowledgeable banana-growers there. Enjoy your bunch! (And remember to give your plant plenty of potassium.)

Oh...and it's usually about three months until harvest. They will fill out and you will start seeing some yellow, at that point you can harvest the whole bunch if you like, bring it inside and place on your refrigerator and watch them ripen one by one. Or you can leave them on the plant if no frost is forecast. Just remember to cut them all and bring inside the day before your first frost is forecast, they will still ripen.

 

6 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I use the Amdro fire ant bait (Hydramethylnon) for pretty much all my ant problems.  It works great on smaller mounds, killing them off in a few days.  Bigger fire ant mounds sometimes split up into several small ones, but I just have to walk around and check a week after I hit a large mound.  Most of the time I find the mound before it gets too big.  I'd guess (like other above comments) that the ants are going after some other insect.  If so you'll need to fix both infestations at the same time.  Otherwise ants are known to "farm" aphids and other bugs by literally carrying them from plant to plant to spread them around. 

 

14 hours ago, D. Morrowii said:

Usually the ants are farming some other insect like aphids or mealy bugs. If you find those under the leaves or elsewhere you can treat with a water, soap and alcohol mixture by spraying it directly on them. To control the ants you can get those Terro spikes. These are just sugar and boron so safe to use around the garden. The sugar attracts them and the boron (borax) kills them. They take it back to the nest as well so hopefully it takes care of the colony causing your headaches. 
 

As far as harvesting, the fruit will lighten up in color and the squarish ridges will round out or actually the fruit will plump up. It takes some patience. Usually its around 100 days + from the time the flower starts opening up. The upper most hands will start to turn yellow and thats when you want to cut the clump off. 

It's definitely the flowers and the sugar they are producing, I did check the plant and their is no farming going on just the flower has the ants excited and the ground being moist and shaded from the hot sun with decaying compost under the tree is very exciting to the ants. I think I do agree maybe its not the ants but just the banana tree first year flowering so maybe it will have more next year assuming I protect it again.

I'll give the Terro spikes a try and if that isn't enough I'll try the Amdro fire ant bait, assuming its plant safe. 

Really Apperciate the replies everyone, I hope this works because ants are getting overwhelming everywhere and theirs not really one place in my backyard I can just stand without me stepping in a trail of ants.

Edited August 16, 2023 by ZPalms

[Silas_Sancona]

25 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

 

 

It's definitely the flowers and the sugar they are producing, I did check the plant and their is no farming going on just the flower has the ants excited and the ground being moist and shaded from the hot sun with decaying compost under the tree is very exciting to the ants. I think I do agree maybe its not the ants but just the banana tree first year flowering so maybe it will have more next year assuming I protect it again.

I'll give the Terro spikes a try and if that isn't enough I'll try the Amdro fire ant bait, assuming its plant safe. 

Really Apperciate the replies everyone, I hope this works because ants are getting overwhelming everywhere and theirs not really one place in my backyard I can just stand without me stepping in a trail of ants.

Only ants that -occasionally- are a nuisance here are our native black fire ants..  Sting, but not nearly as bad as the non native red ones in FL..  Whenever i walk over a mound and disturb them, i'll flood the mound. They take the hint and move elsewhere.

Other native ants are so tiny, you barely notice they're around.

Only ones you want to be concerned with ( here ) are the much bigger native Harvester ants.. their sting hurts.  Not a common sight in yards that aren't close to open desert areas though.

[ZPalms]

54 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Only ants that -occasionally- are a nuisance here are our native black fire ants..  Sting, but not nearly as bad as the non native red ones in FL..  Whenever i walk over a mound and disturb them, i'll flood the mound. They take the hint and move elsewhere.

Other native ants are so tiny, you barely notice they're around.

Only ones you want to be concerned with ( here ) are the much bigger native Harvester ants.. their sting hurts.  Not a common sight in yards that aren't close to open desert areas though.

We just have thousand of sugar ants or whatever they are, Pissants? I'm not sure but their are thousands overpopulating in my planting areas or under mulch, It's getting out of hand and irritating

[mnorell]

1 hour ago, ZPalms said:

We just have thousand of sugar ants or whatever they are, Pissants? I'm not sure but their are thousands overpopulating in my planting areas or under mulch, It's getting out of hand and irritating

Ants do have a number of "purposes" in the scheme of things, and most importantly you might want to think before throwing poisons at everything that moves or seems alien to you. May I suggest that you go on the internet and research the lives, the societies, of ants? You may find that you gain not only a fascination but a respect for what they do and how they do it. Killing creatures with poisons, aside from the ethical considerations involved, will generally move "up the chain" and may have deleterious consequences to our environment that you may not even imagine. Think about becoming a wondrous observer of the complex web of our ecosystem rather than its Lord and Master. I for one have managed to get through my entire life without using a poison of any kind, in a wide variety of climates, and I get along with ants, bees, wasps, hornets, spiders, roaches, centipedes, millipedes, you name it, and have never had a garden suffer for it. In fact, my gardens have always benefited from their presence. If you try to think of the ecosystem as a holistic organic process and stop falling victim to the idea that any "creepy crawly," anything that bites a leaf or inhabits your garden without an invitation, requires extinguishing through dousing with poisons, you will be the better off for it. The chemical industry makes gobs of money, and causes considerable harm to our planet, off of the propaganda that insects around us are enemies. Rachel Carson started an important revolution of enlightenment when she wrote Silent Spring in 1962. You may want to pick up a copy and read it.

[ZPalms]

35 minutes ago, mnorell said:

Ants do have a number of "purposes" in the scheme of things, and most importantly you might want to think before throwing poisons at everything that moves or seems alien to you. May I suggest that you go on the internet and research the lives, the societies, of ants? You may find that you gain not only a fascination but a respect for what they do and how they do it. Killing creatures with poisons, aside from the ethical considerations involved, will generally move "up the chain" and may have deleterious consequences to our environment that you may not even imagine. Think about becoming a wondrous observer of the complex web of our ecosystem rather than its Lord and Master. I for one have managed to get through my entire life without using a poison of any kind, in a wide variety of climates, and I get along with ants, bees, wasps, hornets, spiders, roaches, centipedes, millipedes, you name it, and have never had a garden suffer for it. If you try to think of the ecosystem as a holistic organic process and stop falling victim to the idea that any "creepy crawly," anything that bites a leaf or inhabits your garden without an invitation, requires extinguishing through dousing with poisons, you will be the better off for it. The chemical industry makes gobs of money, and causes considerable harm to our planet, off of the propaganda that insects around us are enemies. Rachel Carson started an important revolution of enlightenment when she wrote Silent Spring in 1962. You may want to pick up a copy and read it.

I wouldnt even mind the ants if they werent taking over the yard or trying to set up colonies in my pots and creating trails leading up to my house and crawling on it, I don't mind insects being in my garden but the balance has to be there, I support benefical insects in my garden, If I could afford and didn't feel tired all the time, I'd probably get chickens to take care of the bugs and let them roam

Edited August 16, 2023 by ZPalms

[Merlyn]

@ZPalms yeah if the ants are just wandering around and checking out the blooms for sugar, I'd leave them alone.  The only ones I kill off are fire ants (everywhere), ones actively farming another pest (scale, aphids, etc) and carpenter ants (hazard to my house).  The sugar ants do occasionally colonize my nursery pots.  The only real hassle is that I can't instantly tell by sight if the ants are FIRE ants or just regular harmless ones.  And I'd never broadcast spread an insecticide, there's way too much collateral damage.  Baits like Amdro are plant-safe and only affect that particular nest.

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, Merlyn said:

@ZPalms yeah if the ants are just wandering around and checking out the blooms for sugar, I'd leave them alone.  The only ones I kill off are fire ants (everywhere), ones actively farming another pest (scale, aphids, etc) and carpenter ants (hazard to my house).  The sugar ants do occasionally colonize my nursery pots.  The only real hassle is that I can't instantly tell by sight if the ants are FIRE ants or just regular harmless ones.  And I'd never broadcast spread an insecticide, there's way too much collateral damage.  Baits like Amdro are plant-safe and only affect that particular nest.

As mentioned a few times in the past, my biggest " Ant " issue in Bradenton wasn't imported Fire Ants, but Big-Headed Ants.. Which would try to invade EVERYTHING..  Which, in that case, ment having to resort to chemical control..

The two do look similar, though " Big Head-eds " do stand out when viewed side by side.  Crazy Ants are tougher to tell apart, other than size and color - from either Big Headed and/ or Red Fire Ants..

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/67598-Solenopsis-invicta

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/199356-Pheidole-megacephala

Overall, w/ ants, you have a few groups ..Primarily Seed gather-ers / consumers:  = Harvester / Carpenter Ants( if i remember correctly )..  Some that focus on Sugars:  = Numerous, ...And others that are more attracted by Protein sources ( meats / dairy, dead things.. etc ) ..also numerous groups / sps.   ..and a few that are fungus farmers:  = primarily Leaf Cutter Ants.

Majority of the pest sps fall into the attracted to / by Sugar or Protein- sources groups.. What they prefer can influence what baits / deterrents you'd apply.  Obviously, some will accept any bait..

May be a pheromone developed in the future that can be used to deter certain non native ants too..
https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14710309

[ZPalms]

 

 

On 8/16/2023 at 2:35 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

As mentioned a few times in the past, my biggest " Ant " issue in Bradenton wasn't imported Fire Ants, but Big-Headed Ants.. Which would try to invade EVERYTHING..  Which, in that case, ment having to resort to chemical control..

The two do look similar, though " Big Head-eds " do stand out when viewed side by side.  Crazy Ants are tougher to tell apart, other than size and color - from either Big Headed and/ or Red Fire Ants..

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/67598-Solenopsis-invicta

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/199356-Pheidole-megacephala

Overall, w/ ants, you have a few groups ..Primarily Seed gather-ers / consumers:  = Harvester / Carpenter Ants( if i remember correctly )..  Some that focus on Sugars:  = Numerous, ...And others that are more attracted by Protein sources ( meats / dairy, dead things.. etc ) ..also numerous groups / sps.   ..and a few that are fungus farmers:  = primarily Leaf Cutter Ants.

Majority of the pest sps fall into the attracted to / by Sugar or Protein- sources groups.. What they prefer can influence what baits / deterrents you'd apply.  Obviously, some will accept any bait..

May be a pheromone developed in the future that can be used to deter certain non native ants too..
https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14710309

We have the big headed ants in the yard, but they don't make the majority, Their colonies stay very small and in their own place, what I'm guessing is when winter comes and it gets cold I'll disturb the compost under the banana and get the ants all paniced in the cold and that should probably do the trick, I also think once the flower is gone then the ants won't have anything interesting they will want after that.

I saw a hummingbird enjoying the flower, I would love more bird activity in my garden space 😍 I wonder if it was also eating the ants as a snack 🤠

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by ZPalms

[mnorell]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:17 AM, Merlyn said:

@ZPalms yeah if the ants are just wandering around and checking out the blooms for sugar, I'd leave them alone.  The only ones I kill off are fire ants (everywhere), ones actively farming another pest (scale, aphids, etc) and carpenter ants (hazard to my house).  The sugar ants do occasionally colonize my nursery pots.  The only real hassle is that I can't instantly tell by sight if the ants are FIRE ants or just regular harmless ones.  And I'd never broadcast spread an insecticide, there's way too much collateral damage.  Baits like Amdro are plant-safe and only affect that particular nest.

You do not have any damaging "carpenter" ants in the Orlando area. What you have in most of Florida are bull ants, a relative of the carpenter ant that is incapable of damaging your house. They do not have the ability to process cellulose in the way the Pennsylvania carpenter ant can. They occupy voids (e.g., termite galleries) and areas with wood already destroyed by water intrusion, which they clear for their homes. But they do absolutely no damage to your house or your environment. In fact, they are man's friend, as they are voracious hunters of termites. I have personally witnessed their obsession with killing termites. Many people in Florida kill these innocent creatures thinking they are the northern carpenter ant. If you see these "carpenter" (bull) ants at your house, you would be better off calling a plumber or other professional to see where your water problems are originating. Please see this article from the University of Florida. 

And you are unlikely to have much effect on fire-ant populations. Their complexes often spread over the better part of an acre, often with multiple queens, and impressive and very complex tunnel systems. What you are doing through your constant use of pesticides is funding chemical companies and making the invasive fire-ants more resistant to those pesticides that you are using. This is probably why you find them, as you state, "everywhere," despite the fact that you are constantly applying poisons to kill them. In fact, these ants do provide beneficial services, including the population control of a number of other insects and extensive soil aeration through their burrowing activities. When I lived in Mississippi, I always just steered clear of them, and let them aerate the soil. Please see this article for a brief explanation.

You can also get rid of the "farmer" ants by removing the critters they are farming, usually with a simple strong jet of water, or at most some soapy water.

[Merlyn]

@mnorell thanks for the info on the Florida carpenter ants!  I moved here from up North in the frozen tundra, and up there carpenter ants were serious threats to structural integrity of a house.  A coworker had them eating the main support beam of his house.  The bill to replace that was absurd, and not covered by insurance.  So I assumed that they would burrow out and expand nests into undamaged wood, instead of just nesting in areas of rotten wood or wet areas.  This also explains why there was zero structural damage up in the cathedral ceiling when I had my roof replaced.  They were nesting in the damp insulation from numerous small water leaks, but hadn't touched the beams.  So that explains a mystery to me! 

As far as fire ants go, if I completely ignore them then nests do pop up "everywhere" in the grassy areas.  Oddly enough they do not (or extremely rarely) show up in the mulched beds.  I only have about 0.1 acres of actual grass area, and 0.5 acres (or so) of mulched area in my lot.  If I left them alone I could easily end up with the 40-200+ mounds per acre in that article.  Ignoring them for a single spring means an increase from the random 1 or 2 popup nests per month to 10-20 nests in a 1000sqft backyard grass area.  At that density I couldn't mow the grass without getting bitten several times.  That is unacceptable.  Given my fairly severe reaction to bites, I am not going to risk anaphylaxis.  I kill wasps for the same reason.  My mom didn't have a problem for 50+ years, but after a few severe wasp stings in a row my mom now has to carry an epi pen with her everywhere she goes...for the rest of her life.  So no, there is no "live and let live" with fire ants and wasps.

[flplantguy]

I have no fire ants but a bunch of other native species.  Thanks for the info on the bull ants i had no idea they ate termites. I hope they all keep the fire ants away in the future too or at least in check.

[Silas_Sancona]

7 minutes ago, flplantguy said:

I have no fire ants but a bunch of other native species.  Thanks for the info on the bull ants i had no idea they ate termites. I hope they all keep the fire ants away in the future too or at least in check.

The Bull Ants may not ( ..significantly impact Fire Ant  #'s ) but when i lived in Bradenton, the Big-Headed Ants, One of these two non natives:  https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/710657-Pheidole-obscurithorax    and / or https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/199356-Pheidole-megacephala  definitely displaced any presence of Fire Ants in my yard / immediate neighborhood..

That said, boy do they love to try and set up their homes in potted stuff, lol..  Not even Argentine Ants ( Very common in CA ) were as relentless at using potted plants as apartments as the Big Headed Ants there in Bradenton / FL.

[happypalms]

On 8/16/2023 at 4:12 PM, mnorell said:

Ants do have a number of "purposes" in the scheme of things, and most importantly you might want to think before throwing poisons at everything that moves or seems alien to you. May I suggest that you go on the internet and research the lives, the societies, of ants? You may find that you gain not only a fascination but a respect for what they do and how they do it. Killing creatures with poisons, aside from the ethical considerations involved, will generally move "up the chain" and may have deleterious consequences to our environment that you may not even imagine. Think about becoming a wondrous observer of the complex web of our ecosystem rather than its Lord and Master. I for one have managed to get through my entire life without using a poison of any kind, in a wide variety of climates, and I get along with ants, bees, wasps, hornets, spiders, roaches, centipedes, millipedes, you name it, and have never had a garden suffer for it. In fact, my gardens have always benefited from their presence. If you try to think of the ecosystem as a holistic organic process and stop falling victim to the idea that any "creepy crawly," anything that bites a leaf or inhabits your garden without an invitation, requires extinguishing through dousing with poisons, you will be the better off for it. The chemical industry makes gobs of money, and causes considerable harm to our planet, off of the propaganda that insects around us are enemies. Rachel Carson started an important revolution of enlightenment when she wrote Silent Spring in 1962. You may want to pick up a copy and read it.

I do believe we call it a symbiotic relationship where one benefits the other ants and scale a good example your words are so true I never spray my garden  and never will