An opportunity just opened up for palms...

[Manalto]

Last night, we had an unremarkable (and welcome)  thunderstorm that brought down a major limb of the 100-year-old live oak on the south side of my house.

When I bought the house, the huge tree was a selling point because, in this hot climate, it not only cast shade on the driveway and half of the house, it created an environment for shade plants. In hurricane Sally (2020), I lost the limb that shaded the back patio and 2nd-floor sleeping porch, with significant damage to the house. The arborist said the remaining tree was healthy and sound. However, last night's storm followed an extended drought and the same arborist said the weight from the sudden absorption of water on the extremely-dry limbs brought it down. The entire tree, including the third limb, which is still intact, will have to come down.

I'm trying to look on the sunny side (pun intended).

The shade-loving understory plants will now be in full sun all day, so will have to be removed. I don't expect  in my lifetime to have a tree which once again provides shade for the house, but maybe I can have a shady driveway in a couple of years? Mule palms? Any thoughts? Suggestions?

Edited August 16, 2023 by Manalto

[knikfar]

3 hours ago, Manalto said:

Last night, we had an unremarkable (and welcome)  thunderstorm that brought down a major limb of the 100-year-old live oak on the south side of my house.

When I bought the house, the huge tree was a selling point because, in this hot climate, it not only cast shade on the driveway and half of the house, it created an environment for shade plants. In hurricane Sally (2020), I lost the limb that shaded the back patio and 2nd-floor sleeping porch, with significant damage to the house. The arborist said the remaining tree was healthy and sound. However, last night's storm followed an extended drought and the same arborist said the weight from the sudden absorption of water on the extremely-dry limbs brought it down. The entire tree, including the third limb, which is still intact, will have to come down.

I'm trying to look on the sunny side (pun intended).

The shade-loving understory plants will now be in full sun all day, so will have to be removed. I don't expect  in my lifetime to have a tree which once again provides shade for the house, but maybe I can have a shady driveway in a couple of years? Mule palms? Any thoughts? Suggestions?

I'm so sorry! And look at all of those resurrection ferns that are going to die. There really is no match to the look of a live oak covered in resurrection ferns and spanish moss. 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

I'm no arborist but that tree doesn't look well from the inside. That definitely sucks to see and I would be heartbroken if any of my Live oaks went down. 

As for replacement ideas I'm thinking Sabal Causiarum,  Riverside, Domingensis,  or maybe some Patric hybrids = ) 

T J 

 

 

[Manalto]

Thanks, Kris. That resurrection fern may have contributed to the limb's demise. They have a unique ability to survive much lower water content than other plants, so after the extended drought, they drank up the rainfall, suddenly contributing to the weight on the branch.

Spanish Moss is here too, but not nearly as abundant as on the Atlantic coast.

Shade trees take years to become shady.

 

 

"I'm no arborist but that tree doesn't look well from the inside. 

 

As for replacement ideas I'm thinking Sabal Causiarum,  Riverside, Domingensis,  or maybe some Patric hybrids = ) 

 

T J "

 

It's a little deceptive. The black is from the crotch where the previous limb broke in hurricane Sally.  According to the arborist, the limb is healthy. At the break, the wood appears fine, with no rot. Crotches are a weakness. (You can quote me on that.)

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Manalto

[N8ALLRIGHT]

Man that's horrible, but I'm assuming no one was hurt and the house and vehicles were spared🙏. That being said I'd plant a new live oak as big as you can afford and start a new century tree.  While you wait for it to flourish enjoy the sunny areas and plant accordingly. Although that causiarum would be pretty awesome as well 🤔

[Swolte]

Holy frickeroly. Lucky no one got hurt and that it missed the (neighbours?) house (am I seeing that right?). 

4 hours ago, Manalto said:

As for replacement ideas I'm thinking Sabal Causiarum,  Riverside, Domingensis,  or maybe some Patric hybrids = ) 

I like how you're so forward thinking when this just happened... but yeah, chaos creates opportunity. Sun means flowers. You can invest in some serious flower power supporting your palms now (my wife is always asking for more flowers). As for a palm (or palms), I'd go with the Causiarum. Its an imposing giant and one of the hardiest on your list. Grows pretty fast too. 

When are they taking it all down?

Edited August 17, 2023 by Swolte

[Dartolution]

Yikes! @Manalto sorry to see this! Glad your safe. You can always fix something broken. 

As for the suggestions - I also would suggest the causiarum. They are quicker growing (for a sabal), very large, and should help with providing a bit of shade. 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

5 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

I'm no arborist but that tree doesn't look well from the inside. That definitely sucks to see and I would be heartbroken if any of my Live oaks went down. 

As for replacement ideas I'm thinking Sabal Causiarum,  Riverside, Domingensis,  or maybe some Patric hybrids = ) 

T J 

 

 

Agree 100%.. Can see where the interior was rotting and pulled away from ...what is left.. of the tree. Looks like it to develop 3 competing leaders when it was quite young, Big no no.. Seen this more times than i can count in CA.   Would not be surprised if ..what's left comes down in the next few years,  if he doesn't have it removed now. 

[Silas_Sancona]

6 hours ago, knikfar said:

I'm so sorry! And look at all of those resurrection ferns that are going to die. There really is no match to the look of a live oak covered in resurrection ferns and spanish moss. 

I'd be cutting up the sections w/ the ferns into smaller sections ( but not removing the bark layer w the ferns on them from the cut up sections ) , and passing them around.  Would be looking all over that section of the tree for any possible Orchids / Bromeliads ( besides Spanish Moss ) that might have been completely hidden up in the canopy.

[PaPalmTrees]

10 hours ago, Manalto said:

Last night, we had an unremarkable (and welcome)  thunderstorm that brought down a major limb of the 100-year-old live oak on the south side of my house.

When I bought the house, the huge tree was a selling point because, in this hot climate, it not only cast shade on the driveway and half of the house, it created an environment for shade plants. In hurricane Sally (2020), I lost the limb that shaded the back patio and 2nd-floor sleeping porch, with significant damage to the house. The arborist said the remaining tree was healthy and sound. However, last night's storm followed an extended drought and the same arborist said the weight from the sudden absorption of water on the extremely-dry limbs brought it down. The entire tree, including the third limb, which is still intact, will have to come down.

I'm trying to look on the sunny side (pun intended).

The shade-loving understory plants will now be in full sun all day, so will have to be removed. I don't expect  in my lifetime to have a tree which once again provides shade for the house, but maybe I can have a shady driveway in a couple of years? Mule palms? Any thoughts? Suggestions?

that's unfortunate a tree of that age got knocked over🙁

[MarcusH]

While most people recommend Sabal Causiarum which is a beautiful and large species,  my question is what are your record lows for the last 30 years ? You know with our crazy climate and artic blasts that like to ruin our hobby it would be smart to plant a palm that have no problem handling record lows.  I just came across an article in this forum where a Sabal Causiarum didn't make it in San Antonio (9a) back in Feb 2021 . Seems to be less cold hardy than S.Palmetto and S.Mexicana.  S.Mexicana would provide you the same size and enough shade but more cold tolerance.  I assume you're going to start off with mature Sabals .  For a 7 footer clear trunk they would charge me around $2500 incl installation.  Might be cheaper in your area. Mule palms provide shade if they don't defoliate in winter . My problem with feather palms is that their leafs aren't that cold hardy for zone 8b and to grow a full crown back it takes you about 2 growing seasons at least.  You want permanent shade go with a Sabal.  That's what I'm doing . 

[Manalto]

17 hours ago, Swolte said:

Holy frickeroly. Lucky no one got hurt and that it missed the (neighbours?) house (am I seeing that right?). 

I like how you're so forward thinking when this just happened... but yeah, chaos creates opportunity. Sun means flowers. You can invest in some serious flower power supporting your palms now (my wife is always asking for more flowers). As for a palm (or palms), I'd go with the Causiarum. Its an imposing giant and one of the hardiest on your list. Grows pretty fast too. 

When are they taking it all down?

It brushed the neighbors' house and broke a window.  We'll know better once it's cleared away but it looks like the damage was minimal. The tree service is coming tomorrow. 

16 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Agree 100%.. Can see where the interior was rotting and pulled away from ...what is left.. of the tree. Looks like it to develop 3 competing leaders when it was quite young, Big no no.. Seen this more times than i can count in CA.   Would not be surprised if ..what's left comes down in the next few years,  if he doesn't have it removed now. 

In the photo, it appears to be rotten, but that's mostly shadow and stain from the organic material trapped in the crotch of the tree. The limb itself is sound.. I do agree that the configuration of three leaders creates a weak point and is a recipe for disaster. In the 100 years or so of this tree's existence, did it have to choose my residency as its time to go? Sigh.

I won't be surprised if what's left comes down either. I've scheduled it to happen tomorrow.

16 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

I'd be cutting up the sections w/ the ferns into smaller sections ( but not removing the bark layer w the ferns on them from the cut up sections ) , and passing them around.  Would be looking all over that section of the tree for any possible Orchids / Bromeliads ( besides Spanish Moss ) that might have been completely hidden up in the canopy.

It's a lovely idea, but I'd have to leave the area to peddle my wares. There's no shortage of resurrection fern (Pleopeltis polypodioides) here.  People would look at me funny, and I already get enough of that. We're only 8B here, so there are few orchids and fewer bromeliads that can tolerate our winters. I saw a hummingbird flying around erratically, looking (to my eye) distressed. I'm thinking that she had a nest in the tree. 

16 hours ago, PaPalmTree said:

that's unfortunate a tree of that age got knocked over🙁

I have a photo of the house from about 1940 when the house was 20 years old (judging by source and the earlier cars in the picture) and the tree is a good size, with a caliper that I would guess at no more than a foot. It didn't have three leaders then; I wonder if the top broke off in a storm and made that happen.

10 hours ago, MarcusH said:

While most people recommend Sabal Causiarum which is a beautiful and large species,  my question is what are your record lows for the last 30 years ? You know with our crazy climate and artic blasts that like to ruin our hobby it would be smart to plant a palm that have no problem handling record lows.  I just came across an article in this forum where a Sabal Causiarum didn't make it in San Antonio (9a) back in Feb 2021 . Seems to be less cold hardy than S.Palmetto and S.Mexicana.  S.Mexicana would provide you the same size and enough shade but more cold tolerance.  I assume you're going to start off with mature Sabals .  For a 7 footer clear trunk they would charge me around $2500 incl installation.  Might be cheaper in your area. Mule palms provide shade if they don't defoliate in winter . My problem with feather palms is that their leafs aren't that cold hardy for zone 8b and to grow a full crown back it takes you about 2 growing seasons at least.  You want permanent shade go with a Sabal.  That's what I'm doing . 

I agree the safest bet would be S. palmetto. It would be considerably cheaper than the price you quote to get installed here, but it is native to here and we're just up the road from the Florida suppliers. I had one installed five years ago with 14' of trunk; the price was $375. I'm sure the price has increased some since then. S. causiarum is a beautiful palm with a real presence, but I agree again that an unpredictable freeze makes it a gamble. A neighbor lost a 30-year-old citrus tree in last year's Christmas freeze. For some species, it appears that not only the low, but the duration of that low and also its timing in the season come into play. The citrus-damaging freeze was quite early for here, and did some surprising damage to plants that had endured lower temperatures that had occurred later in the winter. My mule suffered some superficial damage, too. Also, I doubt that I'd be able to source a S. causiarum locally. There's a good nursery/landscaper who specializes in palms but I've never seen a S. causiarum there, and they carry species for the milder coastline 9A areas, too. It could be that they'd be just fine here but that they're just not available commercially. i planted a wee mail-order one (from Texas Cold-Hardy) about four years ago; it's still indistinguishable from the surrounding S. minor.  More than once I've wondered if the S. causiarum died and I've been observing a S. minor for three years. Ha! If so, it's the most pampered S. minor in Alabama.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Manalto

[Silas_Sancona]

2 hours ago, Manalto said:

 

In the photo, it appears to be rotten, but that's mostly shadow and stain from the organic material trapped in the crotch of the tree. The limb itself is sound.. I do agree that the configuration of three leaders creates a weak point and is a recipe for disaster. In the 100 years or so of this tree's existence, did it have to choose my residency as its time to go? Sigh.

I won't be surprised if what's left comes down either. I've scheduled it to happen tomorrow.

It's a lovely idea, but I'd have to leave the area to peddle my wares. There's no shortage of resurrection fern (Pleopeltis polypodioides) here.  People would look at me funny, and I already get enough of that. We're only 8B here, so there are few orchids and fewer bromeliads that can tolerate our winters. I saw a hummingbird flying around erratically, looking (to my eye) distressed. I'm thinking that she had a nest in the tree. 

 

 Agree that it is one thing to view this in person, vs. images, and the limbs themselves may be ok..  With that said, it will be interesting to see any pictures you might snap from inside that area ..where the section sheered off.. and from adjacent parts, interior of the Trunk esp as it gets cut up and removed..  Bad crotch angle is definitely the culprit, but not totally sure it was the cause. Don't think any added weight from the Ferns would pull it down either. If that were the case, there would be no fern covered Oaks standing out there.  Regardless..

As much as it stinks to loose such a tree, that's the unpredictability of nature..  An Old Oak dropping like this in a storm is one thing,  doing so on a perfectly sunny day,  while on a hike in the woods?  ..is a bit errie, to say the least.  Live Oaks in CA have been known to do this when severely drought stressed. It's a very weird experience to witness.     ** -Not that that was what caused this event.. 


I'll tell ya, saving and /or  passing around pieces of the fern-covered sections might sound odd to some.. but, if i had a couple $100 to spare, i'd be messaging you about having 3 or 4 18-24" long 3-6" wide branch sections shipped here  ..to cover your time and shipping..  They may be common, but those are some of the coolest native- to- the U.S. ferns we have..

As far as anyone looking at you strangely? ..i have a double- handed answer to people like that..   ...That or a pretty -unexpectedly,- blunt answer when ..for instance, someone passing by randomly asks why i was photographing plants while on a hike somewhere..  My answer to the following flavor of comment of  " ...You must not be from around here.. " sends them on their way pretty hastily..    I guess there are still some miss- guided folks who assume people  paying attention to ..let alone admiring  / having much respect for the rest of the world they are a part of.. is " weird " 🤷‍♂️ eh, whatever " grandpa " lol.

I get that you may not be up to it.. Which is totally fine,  but, If so inclined,  Let the " stare -ers " eat sloppy wet dirt while you make a little $ to cover tree removal costs, maybe put toward the purchase of some replacement(s) to fill the void / save some pieces of a cool plant, rather than having it all end up in a landfill / through a chipper. 

Throw an eyebolt screw or two in some of those pieces and they'd make pretty neat " hanging " fern  gardens for a shady patio or porch. 

" Lemons to Lemonade " i guess..

[Manalto]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

 Don't think any added weight from the Ferns would pull it down either. ..

  Live Oaks in CA have been known to do this when severely drought stressed...
 

The theory about the weight of the ferns was partially facetious, a tone that's difficult enough to convey in person, much less here. What was I thinking? Nevertheless, the weight of the water is what the tree guy said brought it down. Under normal conditions, the tree could handle the weight fluctuations. Under stress, maybe not. Or maybe it was that second hummingbird egg.

I agree that  Pleopeltis is a remarkable plant, so last summer I sent a chunk of branch with fern on it to a friend in New Jersey. One night he called me while he was sitting out on his patio watching it rehydrate. "This thing is incredible!" he repeated a few times. I suspect alcohol was involved.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Manalto

[Darold Petty]

Manalto, I am very sorry for your loss of this most beautiful tree.  

[Manalto]

13 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Manalto, I am very sorry for your loss of this most beautiful tree.  

Damn hummingbird! But seriously, thank you for the sympathetic words. When I first saw this house, the south side (where the live oak was) was so overgrown, it was dark. Unfortunately, that was a result of many years of neglect, and weed species like camphor tree - there was a big one growing up against the house - and nasty natives like Smilax vine had created a (not unpleasant) jungle atmosphere and a refuge from the fierce Alabama sun. But my impulse to get it "under control" was irresistible. The tree, whose form was finally visible, was magnificent for a brief couple of years, and now it's gone. I'll try to be wise about its replacement, be it a palm or woody tree, another live oak being the obvious choice. It will be interesting to see how all the well-established understory species fare when suddenly exposed to full-sun conditions.

James

[Meangreen94z]

On 8/17/2023 at 4:01 AM, MarcusH said:

While most people recommend Sabal Causiarum which is a beautiful and large species,  my question is what are your record lows for the last 30 years ? You know with our crazy climate and artic blasts that like to ruin our hobby it would be smart to plant a palm that have no problem handling record lows.  I just came across an article in this forum where a Sabal Causiarum didn't make it in San Antonio (9a) back in Feb 2021 . Seems to be less cold hardy than S.Palmetto and S.Mexicana.  S.Mexicana would provide you the same size and enough shade but more cold tolerance.  I assume you're going to start off with mature Sabals .  For a 7 footer clear trunk they would charge me around $2500 incl installation.  Might be cheaper in your area. Mule palms provide shade if they don't defoliate in winter . My problem with feather palms is that their leafs aren't that cold hardy for zone 8b and to grow a full crown back it takes you about 2 growing seasons at least.  You want permanent shade go with a Sabal.  That's what I'm doing . 

How large was the causiarum? The large specimen at John Fairey came back after two nights of 6°F

[Swolte]

My juvenile Causiarum appeared unfazed after 3F during the same event in my yard. I even left it unprotected as an experiment. A larger one that I protected had no damage. Surprised to hear that there's one that didn't make it in SA. 

[Manalto]

19 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Bad crotch angle is definitely the culprit, but not totally sure it was the cause.

You were right; I was wrong. Although the limbs are healthy-looking, there is indeed rot in the center. I misunderstood the tree guy's explanation. Yes, the weight of the rain on the limb brought it down, but that's because the point of attachment was rotting. Obvious, I know, but I was listening to the professional- or I thought I was.

They're making progress. They'll remove the part still standing next week. 

Good-bye, old tree.

[Fusca]

47 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

How large was the causiarum? The large specimen at John Fairey came back after two nights of 6°F

 

45 minutes ago, Swolte said:

Surprised to hear that there's one that didn't make it in SA. 

I believe that he's referring to the Sabal causiarum at the SA Botanical Gardens.  It was pretty large and the crown was nearing the height of the nearby desert pavilion.  It was coming back in spring of 2021 but probably was removed due to its poor appearance (lack of patience).  I'm sure it would have fully recovered if given the chance.

[Silas_Sancona]

12 minutes ago, Manalto said:

You were right; I was wrong. Although the limbs are healthy-looking, there is indeed rot in the center. I misunderstood the tree guy's explanation. Yes, the weight of the rain on the limb brought it down, but that's because the point of attachment was rotting. Obvious, I know, but I was listening to the professional- or I thought I was.

They're making progress. They'll remove the part still standing next week. 

Good-bye, old tree.

  No worries, You're good 

As you mentioned, the limbs themselves were fine, or at least healthy enough.. ...Unless quite obvious, It isn't always easy to gauge " exactly " what is going on w/ older trees w/ out opening them up..   I'm curious about how the first person you know evaluated the damage, but.. Regardless,  it stinks you lost such a grand old tree.. 

Seeing the Arborist cutting up those limbs puts it's size into perspective.. That tree was a beast.   See he is using straps for properly securing the limb as he is cutting it up.

As far as the plants you had under it, now that we're headed out of summer,  they may be ok ..and have time to adjust to a much brighter / sunnier exposure as next year unfolds..  You'll know what will / won't make it once  late spring / next summer arrives. 

I had a similar experience when i had a top section of the Olive tree out front removed a few months ago ( so it didn't snap off, like it's other half did last year ) and yeah, lol.. what sun sensitive plants were hanging out in it's shade roasted right away..  Would likely have survived if i could have waited until September to have that part of the tree removed, but ..so it goes sometimes. 


Look forward to any reports you share on how those plants do, ..those you decide to leave there anyway..

Like the idea of planting a new Live Oak too ..Maybe not in the same exact spot, but somewhere nearby as both a tribute to the deceased, and symbol of renewal..

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, Meangreen94z said:

How large was the causiarum? The large specimen at John Fairey came back after two nights of 6°F

I don't know I'm not an eyewitness I saw someone posting a comment about it.  More mature ones can take the cold better but apparently "according to the internet " the Causiarum isn't that cold hardy compared to other Sabals . Why taking chances if your plan is to create shade as soon as possible ? Did you lose your crown? 

Edited August 18, 2023 by MarcusH

[Meangreen94z]

11 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I don't know I'm not an eyewitness I saw someone posting a comment about it.  More mature ones can take the cold better but apparently "according to the internet " the Causiarum isn't that cold hardy compared to other Sabals . Why taking chances if your plan is to create shade as soon as possible ? Did you lose your crown? 

Sabal causiarum should be the one on the left middle . 9-10 months after 6°F at John Fairey. As swolte has mentioned most experiences were they are nearly as hardy as Sabal mexicana. Why would would you get them over Sabal palmetto? If you are in the right climate for them they are larger and faster growing.

[Swolte]

29 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I don't know I'm not an eyewitness I saw someone posting a comment about it.  More mature ones can take the cold better but apparently "according to the internet " the Causiarum isn't that cold hardy compared to other Sabals . Why taking chances if your plan is to create shade as soon as possible ? Did you lose your crown? 

Well, the Causiarum is considered one of the fastest growing sabals. There's been threads about it and it has also been my experience. I can double check but I believe the Causiarum barely defoliated at JFGardens during Uri so they are very hardy. 
 

EDIT: Thanks @Meangreen94z. Was looking for a post-Uri pic of that bunch!

Edited August 18, 2023 by Swolte

[Manalto]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

As far as the plants you had under it, now that we're headed out of summer,  they may be ok ..and have time to adjust to a much brighter / sunnier exposure as next year unfolds..  You'll know what will / won't make it once  late spring / next summer arrives. 

 

Summer doesn't seem to realize it's almost over.

 

[Silas_Sancona]

4 minutes ago, Manalto said:

Summer doesn't seem to realize it's almost over.

 

I'll trade ya,  ..That's a cold spell, lol  ...Compared to the  40-something?? days over 110F, 3 days at 119F,  and 29 days of lows not dropping below 90F we've had here this summer.

July itself: Absolutely destroyed our averages..  We'll see how August ( and September / first half of October ) does.

[Manalto]

4 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

I'll trade ya...

Yikes!

But it's a dry heat... just kidding - I lived in the RGV and I don't care how low the humidity is, when it's this hot going out your front door is like opening a pizza oven.

Several weeks at or over 100 is unusual for here, as are the long periods of drought.

Hang in there. Winter's right around the corner.

[MarcusH]

19 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

Sabal causiarum should be the one on the left middle . 9-10 months after 6°F at John Fairey. As swolte has mentioned most experiences were they are nearly as hardy as Sabal mexicana. Why would would you get them over Sabal palmetto? If you are in the right climate for them they are larger and faster growing.

Everybody has different taste I really like the Causiarum it's massive and beautiful at the same time.  I prefer it because it's a quick solution.  I don't know about the nurseries where he comes from but I haven't seen any Causiarums not even to mention mature species anywhere around where I live.  I would assume he has to start off with a small palm . A group of Palmettos look very nice in my opinion and also creates some shade.  

[Silas_Sancona]

19 hours ago, Manalto said:

Yikes!

But it's a dry heat... just kidding - I lived in the RGV and I don't care how low the humidity is, when it's this hot going out your front door is like opening a pizza oven.

Several weeks at or over 100 is unusual for here, as are the long periods of drought.

Hang in there. Winter's right around the corner.

" A dozen pizza ovens, side by side, stacked 5 high, on full tilt,  when it is still.  ...or a 3 story tall blast furnace, w/ 3 or 4 10' x 10'- sized smelters running at the same time, when the wind blows about sums up the hot stretches here, even in a " normal " year, where 110F / 110F+ heat is mainly confined to the few weeks leading up to the start of our Monsoon Season...

Agree, long stretches of 100 / 100+  and little or no rain this time of year are pretty unusual in that part of the world..  Traveling  the section of I 10 between Pensacola and  ..roughly.. Beaumont was always dicey if passing through that area this time of year w/ all the crazy intense downpours that occur ( usually ) there.  driving up and over that big old bridge that crosses the Mississippi near Baton Rouge, during an intense storm, was one of the most nerve wracking experiences in all the road travel i've done..

" Winter " ( In quotes since we really don't have one ),  is a big reason why people put up with the furnace this time of year here..  That said, if summers like this one / 2020 become more common, i'm not sure how many folks will want to endure them. I know i'm over it for sure.. lol.. 

Ironically,  Live Oak actually do ok here ..as long as they're planted where they have access to water,  and have some space to spread out.  

[MarcusH]

All the people from up north who moved down here complaining about how much they struggle in winter.  Well summer here is kind of like winter. People spend a lot of time indoors . What a gain lol 

[Manalto]

5 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

All the people from up north who moved down here complaining about how much they struggle in winter.  Well summer here is kind of like winter. People spend a lot of time indoors . What a gain lol 

[Manalto]

I haven't been paying close enough attention. That's the normal branching habit of live oak. Here are a couple down the street from me. 

Three live oaks in my immediate neighborhood had large limbs break and fall that day. There was no evidence of a weak point on the others as there was on mine. One broke mid- branch. Weird.