Palm spesific fertilizers and bloom boosters just a sales gimmick? ?

[Palmfarmer]

I came a cross a youtube channel called "Gardening Fundamentals" he likes to debunk gardening myths. 

One of his videos he claims that plant spesific fertilizers in realtion to NPK is a scam and most plants should be fertilized with a ratio of 3-1-2. I see the palm ones often have 2-1-3. He also says "even" fertilizers like 5-5-5 or 10-10-10 will over time saturate the soil with too much Phosphorus and cause soil issues. 

Another claim was that bloom boosters and Phosphorus for root growth did not work. 

My antedotal experience with feeding my Lemon three with a 0-10-10 made it flower within a few days and is now fruiting. Coincidence? 

Other youtube channels seems to have similar experiences using bloom boosters as well. 

Is there any soil, plant and fertilizer experts that could give a better answer? Thanks 

[Silas_Sancona]

2 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

I came a cross a youtube channel called "Gardening Fundamentals" he likes to debunk gardening myths. 

One of his videos he claims that plant spesific fertilizers in realtion to NPK is a scam and most plants should be fertilized with a ratio of 3-1-2. I see the palm ones often have 2-1-3. He also says "even" fertilizers like 5-5-5 or 10-10-10 will over time saturate the soil with too much Phosphorus and cause soil issues. 

Another claim was that bloom boosters and Phosphorus for root growth did not work. 

My antedotal experience with feeding my Lemon three with a 0-10-10 made it flower within a few days and is now fruiting. Coincidence? 

Other youtube channels seems to have similar experiences using bloom boosters as well. 

Is there any soil, plant and fertilizer experts that could give a better answer? Thanks 

Good to see more forward thinking folks are looking into these often out dated ideas.. 

It was likely just coincidence that your tree flowered that soon after after you'd  applied the fertilizer.  Regardless, it comes down to how often you'd be applying that 10% PH on your soil that will effect it's health.. Once a year, as i'd mentioned in a different thread ..that's a great way to get things going in the spring.. Applying that same 10% / 10+% Phosphorus  3, 4, or 6 times /yr?  Wayyy too much PH. 1-3% would be ok the rest of the year beyond that initial application of 10% in the spring.

As mentioned elsewhere in the past, Yes, Bloom Boosters ( Usually high Phosphorus ) ferts are an absolute scam.. NOTHING needs 25 / 35 / or 50% Phosphorus..  Esp. if the soil is HEALTHY..

As far as what it's job -as a nutrient- is, yes, it is supposed to help w/ building strong roots, and fruit development / flower production ( ...to some degree.. K is more important in both of those jobs though ).. But again, a plant will only use so much PH at any given moment  for each of those life processes..  ..and you have to have the microbes in the soil to help break down the PH ( and all other nutrients / elements they need ) to a form that will be available for the plant's roots to take up.  Kill some / most / or all the microbes in the soil ..by using too much PH, and  ..We'll.. you get the idea..  

This is one reason the organic portion of the soil in many former AG areas -that are later developed into say Housing tracts,  are depleted, down to the mineral portion of that soil, and then have to be re-built again over time again once someone is creating their yard-scape in that soil.

As for something like a palm special,  ..Say the 8-2-12 formula, for both N and PH, those are good numbers.. K %'age is good too.   You can use that on Phosphorus- sensitive plants like Hibiscus, Plumeria, and Gingers / related plants w/ out fear of the plants glutting themselves on it now, then crashing and burning in 2-3 years.

If you go to the " Hidden Valley Hibiscus " website, look in the " Feeding and Care " section, specifically at the paragraph on Phosphorus..  This advise has been demonstrated by some long time Plumeria and Heliconia experts as well.

 

[Palmfarmer]

I only applied the 0-10-10 once. 

Normally for a liquid feed I use a fish emulsion that is 5-1-1 mixed with liquid kelp that has 3% pottasium. I mainly use these for Micronutrients since I am paranoid about micronutrient deficiency. 

You have any suggestions for solid organics I can use for my Bananas. I used to use a bunch of triple 17 after watching some youtube videos where people used 1lbs of triple 20 every 2 weeks. 

I  stopped doing that and use fish meal now however it only contains 0.5% pottasium. Anything I could add for more pottasium? 

perhaps I dont need the extra potasium since I garden in sandy clay? 

I have looked into alfalfa meal, but I am wondering if it is too weak. Npk is 2.5-0.5-2.5 if I remember correctly. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Palmfarmer

[Silas_Sancona]

8 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

I only applied the 0-10-10 once. 

Normally for a liquid feed I use a fish emulsion that is 5-1-1 mixed with liquid kelp that has 3% pottasium. I mainly use these for Micronutrients since I am paranoid about micronutrient deficiency. 

You have any suggestions for solid organics I can use for my Bananas. I used to use a bunch of triple 17 after watching some youtube videos where people used 1lbs of triple 20 every 2 weeks. 

I  stopped doing that and use fish meal now however it only contains 0.5% pottasium. Anything I could add for more pottasium? 

perhaps I dont need the extra potasium since I garden in sandy clay? 

I have looked into alfalfa meal, but I am wondering if it is too weak. Npk is 2.5-0.5-2.5 if I remember correctly. 

Langbeinite ..and/ or Greensand are your main " Organic " higher K  sources ..You can also lay the leaves, spent flowerstalks, and peels from the Bananas themselves ( also high in K ) down on the soil too. K content ( and any other nutrients ) in all of that stuff will get recycled into the soil back to the plants over time.

As mentioned in the past, if your soil has a high content of Granite ( ..would be greatly decomposed / eroded / weathered ..whatever you'd call the process, and sand-like,  vs. large chunks of it ) Granite itself often contains lots of K as well.   Clay content of your soil would help retain additional K you might add ( ..and all other nutrients / elements ) longer ..but,  how well the clay part of your soil will retain those nutrients can depend what the % 'age of clay is in your soil, vs. the sandy / grit content of it.  That sand / grit would be the greatly eroded Granite (..or other type of rock... ) content of your total  soil ...and i mean several inches / foot or two down, not necessarily what is laying on the surface.  

Generally, Clay content comes from soft " Sedimentary " rock types like Shale, Mud, and Sandstone, ..and /or Limestone deposits  that have eroded and weathered down to very fine grains, and washed down to.. / were deposited where your home / town is located eons ago.

Alfalfa Meal is used primarily as a source of Nitrogen, vs the other two major nutrients it contains..  Have any Acacia, Mesquite, or Palo Verde trees around?  duff created when they drop their leaves in late winter / Spring are a Great source of Nitrogen too..

[Palmfarmer]

Yes I do chop & drop around the bananas. 

Yes plenty of Mesquite trees here. 

Langbeinte is extremly expensive here the same with greensand. 

However I forgot about a pottasium fertilizer I have laying around. I red around 100-150g of fishmeal was a good dose for bananas. The Pottasium one is very strong and water soulable. So perhaps get the fish meal into the soil then 2 weeks later once the fish starts working give it a liquid feed of pottasium. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Palmfarmer

[Palmfarmer]

I do have Kelpmeal as well however I saw the youtube channel "Soilab" do a soiltest after 1-2 weeks after applying Kelpmeal and there was no increase in available Pottasium despite kelp meal containing pottasium. 

Does the kelp just have to break down more to realese the pottasium or? 

[Merlyn]

I'd imagine that some of the "bloom boosters" are just marketing with no real science behind it.  A friend of mine grew orchids and had a whole lot of "anecdotal evidence" of some fertilizer mixes/ratios that worked the best for his plants.  And I've read a few articles about fertilizing bananas, backed up by scientific research on banana yields, nutrient density of the fruits, soil analysis at the plantation, etc.  If you aren't "professionally" growing bananas and just growing some for fun and food then it may not matter a lot what you use.  But like Silas said, Langbeinite or SulPoMag are good options.  I'd imagine the kelp meal has to biodegrade into nutrients before you'd see it in a soil test. 

As far as palms go, the 2-1-3 ratio was determined by experiments by Broschat and Elliot.  Broschat wrote a great article below about various ratios and some of the pitfalls of fertilizers, especially for palms.  Some of it definitely applies to the "cheap" fertilizers like the Sunniland 6-1-8 that I just spread yesterday.  The micros in it are all oxides, which are mostly useless in neutral or alkaline soils.  And the potassium is all water soluble, so it washes away quickly.  With a controlled N and quick release K you can end up with nutrient imbalances over time.  That's a main reason why fertilizers with all controlled nutrients (Kieserite, Langbeinite, polymer-coated, etc) are better and not a scam.  Here's Broschat's article:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/ep516

[sonoranfans]

Yes there is no real scientific data that flowering is boosted by high phosphorus fertilizer.  For palms, too high a phosphorus in soil can lead to Fe Zn deficiencies and when looking at NPK one needs to realize that N,K are washed away while P tends to become fixed in soils.  So yes you can trash your soil by using too much phos in  your fertilizer.  You just dont want to put down more than the plant consumes as it will accumulate over time.  Now the big question is how much phosphorus is in your soil now?  IN florida we have high phosphorus soils so the best fertilizers here are low in phosphorus.  We also have sandy soils and lots of rain so K is lost rapidly, its the most common deficiency here.  University of FLorida Ag school determined that palm fertilizer is better at  4-1-6 for NPK which is the same as 8-2-12.  Other places could be 10-10-10 is best if there is low phos and not so high a K loss.  The most important part of a palm fertilizer is actually the micronutrients: Mg, Ca, Mn, Fe, Zn, B, Cu  etc  These micros are very important to plant health though some palms are much more sensitive than others to these micros.

[D Palm]

Fish emulsions really work. Mulch breaking down helps too. I have a few pine stumps I plan on grinding soon to produce my own mulch.

As for granular fertilizers, I just grab what’s on sale at the time to stock up.  If it seems like a gimmick, odds are it is.

[tacobender]

If I use any fertilizer, which I rarely do it is 17/17/17.  All that is available here. I personally think you can waste alot of money on that stuff.  Mulch or compost is better IMO

[sonoranfans]

I use florikan 8-2-12 plus humic acid and some fish emulsion and have used them for 10 years in my yard.  Yeah I mulch too, to keep the top covering from drying too fast and for future penetration into the top 5" or so of soil.  The humic acid (with fulvates) are the final decomposition products of mulch, a gallon takes a couple thousand pounds of mulch to create and it takes a long time to digest that mulch so nutrient wise its like a "super mulch.  The florikan solved deficiency problems in the micros of some palms that the fish emulsion and humic and slow release cant solve.  That is because its an osmotic fertilizer.  It delivers only when wet and the rate is controlled by the osmotic chemical potential of the soil relative to inside the prill.  Controlled fertilizer lasts a lot longer than "slow" release and different micros have different osmotic membranes to extended release of the most soluble elements..  I have the 180 day release and overlap applications by a month or as needed.  Many palms can get by fine without a specially formulated palm fertilizer but dont be surprised if you pick one that doesnt do so well without it.

[Johnny Palmseed]

Everything is a sales gimmick. Including the YouTube channel since they get paid if people watch. Let’s face it, you really have no idea who these people are or if they know what they are talking about. Even on here you will get varied opinions about what is best for palms. A lot is helpful but some is not. And what might work in Florida won’t necessarily work in Mexico. No single fertilizer will be best for all palms or plants in general. Soil, climate and water differences will all affect plants differently and will determine which fertilizer would be best for each condition. But it takes a lot of time, money and research to determine that. The Broschat article was written using Florida as a test area so it most accurately pertains to Florida palms. But even then, Florida soils are not homogeneous and not all palms want or need the same elements in the same ratios. The 2-1-3 plus minors is a good starting point for us in Florida and it might be good for you as well. Long story short, use what works for you. 3-1-2 is not vastly different from 2-1-3 but some palms could develop potassium deficiency which is better to avoid rather than have to correct later.

[sonoranfans]

1 hour ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

Everything is a sales gimmick. Including the YouTube channel since they get paid if people watch. Let’s face it, you really have no idea who these people are or if they know what they are talking about. Even on here you will get varied opinions about what is best for palms. A lot is helpful but some is not. And what might work in Florida won’t necessarily work in Mexico. No single fertilizer will be best for all palms or plants in general. Soil, climate and water differences will all affect plants differently and will determine which fertilizer would be best for each condition. But it takes a lot of time, money and research to determine that. The Broschat article was written using Florida as a test area so it most accurately pertains to Florida palms. But even then, Florida soils are not homogeneous and not all palms want or need the same elements in the same ratios. The 2-1-3 plus minors is a good starting point for us in Florida and it might be good for you as well. Long story short, use what works for you. 3-1-2 is not vastly different from 2-1-3 but some palms could develop potassium deficiency which is better to avoid rather than have to correct later.

This is even more complex than stated here as the delivery through time is an other huge variable.  How a fertilizer delivers over time might be the biggest issue I have seen in my florida yard.  Slow release fertilizers will release differently with rain and irrigation levels.  Again with some palms it is an issue for me.  I was unable to keep K deficiencies down in Cuban copernicias using slow release every 60 days.  And I was using double the pounds of fertilizer that I do now with controlled release.  My cuban copernicias always had those lighter leaf tips to one degree or another even in some newer leaves when I used slow release.  Now I use about 125lbs of 180 day florikan per year.  Unlike some youtube or internet sources University of Florida Gainesville Ag dept. tested the release profile of florikan, it actually does have macros and micros past 5 months after application.  And my cuban copernicias, the canary in a coalmine for me, have been mostly without deficiencies for almost 8-9 years.  Used to be thing would just get away from me using 250 lbs of slow release palm fertilizer a year.  Slow release may be fine in clay soils, but it hasnt worked for me on my cubans in sandy soils.   The most susceptible palms to K deficiency in my yard are cuban copernicias, teddy bears and chambeyronia oliviformis.  But I also notice my alfrediis are a deeper green than most I see on here, not sure if that is just a little better Fe or Mg availability.   Infrequent watering in drought can also lead to deficiencies even when the fertilizer is adequate as nutrient uptake occurs only in moist soils.