Longest Life Palm Trees?

[Banana Belt]

Question for any and all.  What Palms have the longest lives and how does one measure or estimate the age of a Palm?

[tim_brissy_13]

I think the basic method is total size divided by growth rate but I’m sure there’s more scientific ways of doing it. Jubaea and Chamaerops are known to live very long lives when healthy. I’m sure there are other contenders too. 

[Hurricanepalms]

In cultivation, Copernicia Cowellii and Psuedophoenix Ekmanii have to be some of the slowest growing. Which leads me to believe they may be some of the longer lived palms. 
 

Here is a remarkable story about the documented life of a palm in California that is now nearly 200 years old and still looks very healthy: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-05-13/palm-tree-exposition-park-los-angeles-drought

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Hurricanepalms

[Pal Meir]

Goethe’s Palm 400 years after planting / Orto Botanico di Padova, Italy (1985-07-27): Chamaerops humilis

[SeanK]

  On 8/26/2023 at 2:36 PM, Pal Meir said:

Goethe’s Palm 400 years after planting / Orto Botanico di Padova, Italy (1985-07-27): Chamaerops humilis

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I will have to search this, as I'd love to get a view inside the conservatory. Sure it's not "di Pisa"?😉

[SeanK]

  On 8/26/2023 at 1:24 AM, Banana Belt said:

Question for any and all.  What Palms have the longest lives and how does one measure or estimate the age of a Palm?

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I believe there are Jubaeas in Chile from before the Spanish arrival.

[kinzyjr]

 

  On 8/26/2023 at 1:24 AM, Banana Belt said:

Question for any and all.  What Palms have the longest lives and how does one measure or estimate the age of a Palm?

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There are date palms over 100 years old: https://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/trees/phoenixdactylifera/records/

Before Lethal Bronzing hit here, they were lifetime palms.

 

  On 8/26/2023 at 2:43 PM, SeanK said:

I believe there are Jubaeas in Chile from before the Spanish arrival.

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Wow!  Now that's old!

[Pal Meir]

  On 8/26/2023 at 2:41 PM, SeanK said:

I will have to search this, as I'd love to get a view inside the conservatory. Sure it's not "di Pisa"?😉

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It is di Padova, I was there.

Jubaea chilensis, 140 years old (1986-09-17) / Kew Gardens, London. Later killed by Goofies.

[Pal Meir]

@SeanK: https://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Die_Goethe-Palme_in_Padua

[awkonradi]

I would think there may be suckering palms that have been growing continuously for thousands of years.  Chamaerops around the Mediterranean, and Phoenix dactylifera at Arabian and North African oases come to mind.

[SeanK]

  On 8/26/2023 at 2:36 PM, Pal Meir said:

Goethe’s Palm 400 years after planting / Orto Botanico di Padova, Italy (1985-07-27): Chamaerops humilis

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@Pal Meir My previous comment contained a spot of brevity owing to the photographic aspect.

[Fishinsteeg234]

Palmpedia.net has mention that some Serenoa repens can live 500-700 years! 
 

https://palmpedia.net/wiki/Serenoa_repens

[Pal Meir]

  On 8/26/2023 at 4:24 PM, SeanK said:

@Pal Meir My previous comment contained a spot of brevity owing to the photographic aspect.

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😁

[ruskinPalms]

I was thinking Serenoa also but I bet there are Nannorrhops out there just as old. 

[ruskinPalms]

Welp. I just looked at palmpedia and I guess the individual stems are monocarpic so not sure Nannorrhops counts after all.  I’m guessing Jubaea may be the oldest living single stem species out there. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by ruskinPalms
Can’t spell

[Foxpalms]

  On 8/26/2023 at 3:16 PM, Pal Meir said:

It is di Padova, I was there.

Jubaea chilensis, 140 years old (1986-09-17) / Kew Gardens, London. Later killed by Goofies.

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I cant remember if they have planted another, but it would be a stupid idea to put it in the glasshouse again when they will grow perfectly fine outside. 

[Banana Belt]

  On 8/26/2023 at 4:00 PM, awkonradi said:

I would think there may be suckering palms that have been growing continuously for thousands of years.  Chamaerops around the Mediterranean, and Phoenix dactylifera at Arabian and North African oases come to mind.

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That a good point of view but I don't think suckering or dividing a palm counts as age of a single specimen, in any case it would be next to impossible to judge it's age.

[Banana Belt]

  On 8/26/2023 at 2:43 PM, SeanK said:

I believe there are Jubaeas in Chile from before the Spanish arrival.

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Presumably your saying that there may be Jubaea's still alive today in Chile that were growing when the Spanish arrived and before.  Several people in Chile say the same thing, but difficult to prove.  However these same people say historical research suggests that specific Jubaea Palms have reference and provenance to back it up even before photography. 

Jubaea age can to some degree be estimated by the vertical count of leaf scars as the Palm tends to drop leaves only in the dry season such as in Chile.  But not all years are alike and without a period of extended months of dry and wet to punctuate the cycle in a given year, the leaf scar count would overlap and be off.  

I think measuring the yearly age of monocots is a tough score no matter how it's done.

[Banana Belt]

  On 8/26/2023 at 3:00 PM, kinzyjr said:

 

There are date palms over 100 years old: https://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/trees/phoenixdactylifera/records/

Before Lethal Bronzing hit here, they were lifetime palms.

 

Wow!  Now that's old!

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That Palm at Ingenio church in Parte Alta has provenance to back it's age.  Without historical records it is much tougher to measure the age of Palms.  All plants are sedentary and being unable to move are subject to disease, fires, being cut down or other disasters which limit their age.  I agree, date palms can live very long and are tough customers having evolved in deserts.

[Banana Belt]

  On 8/27/2023 at 2:09 AM, Foxpalms said:

I cant remember if they have planted another, but it would be a stupid idea to put it in the glasshouse again when they will grow perfectly fine outside. 

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That's true, but I wonder if the outside climate 140 years ago was the same as today?

[Banana Belt]

  On 8/26/2023 at 3:49 AM, tim_brissy_13 said:

I think the basic method is total size divided by growth rate but I’m sure there’s more scientific ways of doing it. Jubaea and Chamaerops are known to live very long lives when healthy. I’m sure there are other contenders too. 

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Thanks for the information.  I have a couple Jubaea that I grew from seed and planted in 1988 which are now about 28 feet high with 14 foot trunk.  With a distinct 6 months of rain followed by 6 month of dry, the palms have leaf scar pattern of about 2 vertical scars per year.  However measuring and counting leaf scars at the bottom of the trunk is much harder as they are compressed and stretched out as the Palms grow.  I presume the compression vertically and thickening of the trunks has caused these oldest leaf scars get crunched down but stretched out as the palm added bulk and weight.  

I often wonder how a Palm like a date or Jubaea can grow so tall and big with such mass compressing down especially at the bottom of the trunk.  These type Palms really are heavy weights.

[Foxpalms]

  On 8/27/2023 at 7:16 PM, Banana Belt said:

That's true, but I wonder if the outside climate 140 years ago was the same as today?

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It was definitely colder however since Jubaea are pretty cold hardy there would still be a chance it could have survived