Growing in pure minerals/Pumice

[Palmfarmer]

I got the idea from a youtube channel where they grew a Trachy in Pure Pumice with great sucess. They then made the drain hole at the side of the container kinda high so it could be filt up with water and the lower roots would benifit the same way as when hitting groundwater. 

I am just wondering what do I need to add to the Pumice to make this doable. I guess I need some material that can hold some nutrients. Also what kind of fertilizer would be used in this scenerio? solid organics will obviously not work so I will go syntetic. Will micronutrient deficiencies become a problem if I just feed it with a something like Nitrofoska?

[JacoPalmsCo]

I literally have no idea, sorry but can you post the link to the video

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, Palmfarmer said:

I got the idea from a youtube channel where they grew a Trachy in Pure Pumice with great sucess. They then made the drain hole at the side of the container kinda high so it could be filt up with water and the lower roots would benifit the same way as when hitting groundwater. 

I am just wondering what do I need to add to the Pumice to make this doable. I guess I need some material that can hold some nutrients. Also what kind of fertilizer would be used in this scenerio? solid organics will obviously not work so I will go syntetic. Will micronutrient deficiencies become a problem if I just feed it with a something like Nitrofoska?

Not sure about Trachycarpus but yes, some plants can be grown in a mix that is 70-90% Pumice w/ out issue..   You could add 5% Turface MVP, and 5% Ground Coconut husk ( Coco-Peat ) to the total mix for nutrient retention..


In some ways, this would mirror a soil-less hydroponic set up w/ the pots sitting in " flow trays " ...where water / nutrients are circulated around the pots < or baskets > ( sitting in the trays ).

In the case of nutrients, you would use stuff like Kelp and Fish Emulsion in a set up like this, not synthetics.

Being Volcanic in origin, ...and like any other rock, Pumice itself contains numerous elements that are released slowly. Having lots of nooks and cranies, it will also retain some % 'age of nutrients that pass over it, and moisture.  

Geologically, Pumice is essentially frothy, light weight Volcanic " Glass " that cooled faster than heavier / thicker Lava when it was ejected from a volcano during an eruption.


If you have access to them, you can trial such a soil -less- mix w/ something easy to access ..like Palmetto or Washingtonia seeds / seedlings..

[Silas_Sancona]

8 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Not sure about Trachycarpus but yes, some plants can be grown in a mix that is 70-90% Pumice w/ out issue..   You could add 5% Turface MVP, and 5% Ground Coconut husk ( Coco-Peat ) to the total mix for nutrient retention..


In some ways, this would mirror a soil-less hydroponic set up w/ the pots sitting in " flow trays " ...where water / nutrients are circulated around the pots < or baskets > ( sitting in the trays ).

In the case of nutrients, you would use stuff like Kelp and Fish Emulsion in a set up like this, not synthetics.

Being Volcanic in origin, ...and like any other rock, Pumice itself contains numerous elements that are released slowly. Having lots of nooks and cranies, it will also retain some % 'age of nutrients that pass over it, and moisture.  

Geologically, Pumice is essentially frothy, light weight Volcanic " Glass " that cooled faster than heavier / thicker Lava when it was ejected from a volcano during an eruption.


If you have access to them, you can trial such a soil -less- mix w/ something easy to access ..like Palmetto or Washingtonia seeds / seedlings..

Here's a screen shot of " Horticultural " uses portion of  a description about Pumice on Wikipedia:


 

[Palmfarmer]

On 9/5/2023 at 11:31 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Not sure about Trachycarpus but yes, some plants can be grown in a mix that is 70-90% Pumice w/ out issue..   You could add 5% Turface MVP, and 5% Ground Coconut husk ( Coco-Peat ) to the total mix for nutrient retention..


In some ways, this would mirror a soil-less hydroponic set up w/ the pots sitting in " flow trays " ...where water / nutrients are circulated around the pots < or baskets > ( sitting in the trays ).

In the case of nutrients, you would use stuff like Kelp and Fish Emulsion in a set up like this, not synthetics.

Being Volcanic in origin, ...and like any other rock, Pumice itself contains numerous elements that are released slowly. Having lots of nooks and cranies, it will also retain some % 'age of nutrients that pass over it, and moisture.  

Geologically, Pumice is essentially frothy, light weight Volcanic " Glass " that cooled faster than heavier / thicker Lava when it was ejected from a volcano during an eruption.


If you have access to them, you can trial such a soil -less- mix w/ something easy to access ..like Palmetto or Washingtonia seeds / seedlings..

Thanks a lot, I will try it out on some easier to access palms like Robusta first. 

 

How about dry organic fertilizers? Those would be useless since there is no bacteria to break them down right? 

[Palmfarmer]

On 9/5/2023 at 9:12 PM, JacoPalmsCo said:

I literally have no idea, sorry but can you post the link to the video

Of course: https://youtu.be/eJmM3Xc3gjc?si=yd6TNuJQiv7Umldo

[JacoPalmsCo]

3 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

Of course: https://youtu.be/eJmM3Xc3gjc?si=yd6TNuJQiv7Umldo

Thanks 

[Silas_Sancona]

2 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

Thanks a lot, I will try it out on some easier to access palms like Robusta first. 

 

How about dry organic fertilizers? Those would be useless since there is no bacteria to break them down right? 

You can still use them.. And, ..if the mix retains -any- moisture, even if the first inch or two of soil at the surface of the pot are dry,  you'll have bacteria present that will break down any solid fertilizer that work their way deeper into the soil..

Think of a " mineral " soil mix like a seasonally dry, gravely stream or river bed..  It may look completely dry while walking around on the surface of it, but if you dig down 8" to a foot ..or 2.., you'll find that same gritty soil is often still quite moist ( unless there has been a prolonged, severe drought ) ..  Dig deeper and it's quite likely you'll see flowing water start to fill the hole.

[Silas_Sancona]

2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

You can still use them.. And, ..if the mix retains -any- moisture, even if the first inch or two of soil at the surface of the pot are dry,  you'll have bacteria present that will break down any solid fertilizer that work their way deeper into the soil..

Think of a " mineral " soil mix like a seasonally dry, gravely stream or river bed..  It may look completely dry while walking around on the surface of it, but if you dig down 8" to a foot ..or 2.., you'll find that same gritty soil is often still quite moist ( unless there has been a prolonged, severe drought ) ..  Dig deeper and it's quite likely you'll see flowing water start to fill the hole.

Since showing examples helps explain the idea, here are some pictures of various things i grow in ..nearly pure gritty / mineral soil mixes ( river / wash grit, Turface MVP, and / or Pumice / small Lava rock ..and a little Coco Peat )  Obviously, the smaller the container size, the more you'll have to water .. Mainly this time of year ( here ) ..  but, i rarely have issues with plants staying too wet, esp in winter, if it is a wet year..

Guaiacum coulteri,  1 of two container-grown specimens ( Other is in basically the same mix, though w/ a little more Coco- "Peat " mixed in when i stepped it up to it's current container ) been in this pot for approx 5 years, grown from a seedling picked up in 2013.

White Tree paint is to help keep the pots cooler during the summer.





One of a few Community pots of G. coulteri seedlings off one of the container-grown plants ..approx 2 or 3 yrs old.  Soil is 85% grit i collect and sift ( to get the majority of fine sand / large rocks out )



Aside from making sure they're getting enough water this time of year, have found they excel when grown in this mix vs. one that is primarily Organic- component based. 




All of my Bursera and related tree sps / genera are grown in Grit / Pumice..  Except for one, Never had a single issue w/ plants staying too wet ( or dry when growing ).. Washingtonia seed the birds drop will pop up in the same pots every so often as well.

Bursera filicifolia ..Approx 8 years.  Picture taken just after i stepped it into this pot, from a 3 gal it had been growing in after purchased it as a seedling.






Bursera microphylla, standard form.. 7 or 8 years old from a seedling, grown in this root maker since 2018 or 9.






Plumeria...  More of a newer experiment growing purchased, rooted plants in a soil mix that is 85% grit / Pumice " Mineral Soil " based..  Growing this one, and a couple others in Root maker pots as well, just to see how they respond. Thought behind this experiment is bigger / healthier plants, in a smaller pot ( Root makers encourage proper rooting, rather than circling roots )  We'll see how this goes..



Cuttings root very well in a mineral soil mix also.. Had a few random Washingtonia pop up in these pots too.

[Palmfarmer]

On 9/8/2023 at 10:13 AM, Silas_Sancona said:

You can still use them.. And, ..if the mix retains -any- moisture, even if the first inch or two of soil at the surface of the pot are dry,  you'll have bacteria present that will break down any solid fertilizer that work their way deeper into the soil..

Think of a " mineral " soil mix like a seasonally dry, gravely stream or river bed..  It may look completely dry while walking around on the surface of it, but if you dig down 8" to a foot ..or 2.., you'll find that same gritty soil is often still quite moist ( unless there has been a prolonged, severe drought ) ..  Dig deeper and it's quite likely you'll see flowing water start to fill the hole.

Probably a stupid question. So dry non water soulable organics will break down and feed the plants in only grit/Pumice and some peat or coco coir? 

I filled two 12 gallons using the recipe for Garys Top Pot from Laguna hills Nursery which contains

35% peat

30% Pumice 

20% Perlite

10% Sand 

5% Charcoal 

I changed out the peat for coco coir and the Charcoal for Biochar. I did not charge the Biochar however. 

Put down some Gaia Green 4-4-4 and been watering with a mix of fish and kelp. 

It definitly holds moisture well as you described. 

[Silas_Sancona]

5 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

Probably a stupid question. So dry non water soulable organics will break down and feed the plants in only grit/Pumice and some peat or coco coir? 

I filled two 12 gallons using the recipe for Garys Top Pot from Laguna hills Nursery which contains

35% peat

30% Pumice 

20% Perlite

10% Sand 

5% Charcoal 

I changed out the peat for coco coir and the Charcoal for Biochar. I did not charge the Biochar however. 

Put down some Gaia Green 4-4-4 and been watering with a mix of fish and kelp. 

It definitly holds moisture well as you described. 

Not a stupid question.. and yes, even soild-sourced organics like say Langbeinite or Green Sand Crystals will break down / release whatever nutrient(s) they contain in that kind of mix.. Each time you water, the Pumice ..or Lava Rock/ Grit will release a pulse of minerals they contain as well. 

Remember, it is the soil bacteria / other micro-flora in the soil mix itself that makes each nutrient / element available for plant roots to take up ( ..consume ) No or very little micro-scale activity in your soil, less consumption of nutrients by the plants. 

The other major benefit of a " looser " soil mix ( which includes the Pumice / mineral- heavy ones )?  more oxygen exchange through it,  which benefits both the roots, and micro-flora that helps make the nutrients available to the roots themselves.

[Palmfarmer]

2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Not a stupid question.. and yes, even soild-sourced organics like say Langbeinite or Green Sand Crystals will break down / release whatever nutrient(s) they contain in that kind of mix.. Each time you water, the Pumice ..or Lava Rock/ Grit will release a pulse of minerals they contain as well. 

Remember, it is the soil bacteria / other micro-flora in the soil mix itself that makes each nutrient / element available for plant roots to take up ( ..consume ) No or very little micro-scale activity in your soil, less consumption of nutrients by the plants. 

The other major benefit of a " looser " soil mix ( which includes the Pumice / mineral- heavy ones )?  more oxygen exchange through it,  which benefits both the roots, and micro-flora that helps make the nutrients available to the roots themselves.

Thanks a lot. I will try pumice with 30% peat or coco.

I found a syntetic I believe should be good if dosed low enough its a 12-8-16+3 and it contains a handful of micronutrients as well. Good? 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Palmfarmer

[Silas_Sancona]

7 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

Thanks a lot. I will try pumice with 30% peat or coco.

I found a syntetic I believe should be good if dosed low enough its a 12-8-16+3 and it contains a handful of micronutrients as well. Good? 

 

If using as a " wake up " feeding, that formula should be fine ..esp. if a slow / timed release.  If applied more than once a year, N is a little high, should be closer to 8% ideally.. PH ( Phosphorus ) should be no higher than 2%... I myself wouldn't add any more of that after the first feeding, esp. stuff in pots.  K is alright, overall..

[Palmfarmer]

7 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

If using as a " wake up " feeding, that formula should be fine ..esp. if a slow / timed release.  If applied more than once a year, N is a little high, should be closer to 8% ideally.. PH ( Phosphorus ) should be no higher than 2%... I myself wouldn't add any more of that after the first feeding, esp. stuff in pots.  K is alright, overall..

I see. I guess I will stick mainly to organics then. ALFALFA seems promising and it realeses nutrients fairly fast. 

[Palmfarmer]

The syntetic realeses fairly fast. 

Brewing some Biochar currently. Ordered some tall 4-5 gallon pots for the trachies as well as Peat, Coir, River Sand, pumice and another vulcanic rock. 

I am wondering do you have any experience on how the plants do if they go from a Mineral mix to being planted in the ground? 

[Silas_Sancona]

7 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

The syntetic realeses fairly fast. 

Brewing some Biochar currently. Ordered some tall 4-5 gallon pots for the trachies as well as Peat, Coir, River Sand, pumice and another vulcanic rock. 

I am wondering do you have any experience on how the plants do if they go from a Mineral mix to being planted in the ground? 

If you're using ground Coir, i wouldn't also add Peat.. That's a lot of water holding capacity and the peat decomposing under such conditions could cause issues  If you use it, use just a pinch or two, ..compared to the Coir anyway.


Depends on the species... If a rainforest grower ( Archontophoenix, Chambeyronia ), which might grow in a 2-4ft deep layer of long deposited organics ( That sits on top of rock or thick, fine clay ) they may not do as well in a really well-draining soil mix in the ground..

On the other hand, look at where palms like Copernicia,  Brahea,  Coccothrinax  ..and likely palms like Trachys,  Nannarrhops, etc  stuff grow.   Soil profile is very rocky and well draining. In some cases, individual specimens within the mentioned Genera are growing from cracks in solid rock.  Yea, on the surface, there are organics / finer soil / sand present, but, if you dug down a foot or two, where the roots are, you might be asking yourself how these plants survive in ..almost 100% rock.

Even some stream-side growers, like Majestys, grow along stream beds that are composed of deep, deposits of " mineral " soil with minimal organic content ( other than what is trapped between the palms /other vegetation growing alongside those Majestys as fast flowing water passes by ). 

[Palmfarmer]

45 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

If you're using ground Coir, i wouldn't also add Peat.. That's a lot of water holding capacity and the peat decomposing under such conditions could cause issues  If you use it, use just a pinch or two, ..compared to the Coir anyway.


Depends on the species... If a rainforest grower ( Archontophoenix, Chambeyronia ), which might grow in a 2-4ft deep layer of long deposited organics ( That sits on top of rock or thick, fine clay ) they may not do as well in a really well-draining soil mix in the ground..

On the other hand, look at where palms like Copernicia,  Brahea,  Coccothrinax  ..and likely palms like Trachys,  Nannarrhops, etc  stuff grow.   Soil profile is very rocky and well draining. In some cases, individual specimens within the mentioned Genera are growing from cracks in solid rock.  Yea, on the surface, there are organics / finer soil / sand present, but, if you dug down a foot or two, where the roots are, you might be asking yourself how these plants survive in ..almost 100% rock.

Even some stream-side growers, like Majestys, grow along stream beds that are composed of deep, deposits of " mineral " soil with minimal organic content ( other than what is trapped between the palms /other vegetation growing alongside those Majestys as fast flowing water passes by ). 

Oh I have no plans to mix them. I will use one or the other. 

I will see if I can obtain an extra majesty. 

How do you think Kentias would do in stone? 

[Palmfarmer]

I am thinking Snakeplants might do great in this mix as well? I have a bunch of them. 

What plant are you growing here: 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Palmfarmer

[Silas_Sancona]

3 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

I am thinking Snakeplants might do great in this mix as well? I have a bunch of them. 

What plant are you growing here: 

Those are Plumeria cuttings.. 

..And yes, that would be a great mix for Sansevieria ( Snake Plants ) ..though i might up the %'age of ground Coconut -just a touch- to a fix for them. 

Plants like Hoya, some Orchids, ..any cacti and /or succulents / Agave / yuccas you might grow will do well in a mineral mix too.. 

W/ Hoyas and Orchids, you'd create a mix that is basically large pumice, chunks of Charcoal / Biochar, and chunky Coconut husk ..w just a pinch of grit and ground Coconut added to it.  Some Asplenium / Anthurium ( Bird's Nest Ferns ) also thrive in such a well draining mix too.

[Palmfarmer]

I will try a lot of stuff, I am just waiting for the order of the stones and pots. I got some Dyckias I will propogate and try once they get pups again. I managed to rip of the roots on some by accident. 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

36 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

I will try a lot of stuff, I am just waiting for the order of the stones and pots. I got some Dyckias I will propogate and try once they get pups again. I managed to rip of the roots on some by accident. 

 

Have done the same thing when taking pups from the main colony of one i have. Dyckia are pretty tough.. a few torn roots won't hurt them as long as you keep them moist -but not wet- while rooting them in their new pots..  They also like the same kind of mix ( Mineral ) with an extra pinch or two of ground coconut.

[Palmfarmer]

What do you think about using this mix so the new roots will stand in water. 

In the Pumice video where the guy repots his trachy he measures the rootball then make the drainagehole a few inches from it. He said that over time the plants will make "Water roots" and grow down into the water. Good idea? 

I guess it can be compared to a palm rooting into the groundwater. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Palmfarmer

[Silas_Sancona]

10 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

What do you think about using this mix so the new roots will stand in water. 

In the Pumice video where the guy repots his trachy he measures the rootball then make the drainagehole a few inches from it. He said that over time the plants will make "Water roots" and grow down into the water. Good idea? 

I guess it can be compared to a palm rooting into the groundwater. 

If you're using just large pumice ( what the guy in the video is using ) w/ out ANY organic stuff ( Peat = will rot, easily, Ground Coconut ..will eventually decompose as well )    it might work ...with a couple caveats.

In the video, he's laying down a few inches deep layer of Pumice in the base of the new pot, before placing the palm on top of that new layer,  and then back filling the space around the newly installed rootball w/ more Pumice. I see what he's getting at w/ the new roots " seeking out " the water in the bottom " basin " ..below where he drilled the holes..  Only problem i see is..

Because he is in Sweden, it is a lot cooler, even in summer, compared to here ..or there in Durango. Warmer the weather, warmer the water sitting in the bottom of the pot can get.

Since it is sitting in the bottom, rather than constantly flowing through it, the water can end up going stagnant. ..IE: Oxygen content in the water is depleted, which encourages anaerobic bacteria, ..which can further suck oxygen out of the soil and cause roots to start rotting. 

Yes, being that the palm is in 100% Pumice, there will be more oxygen cycling through the soil, compared to a soil mix with -any- organics in it, but it's hard to say if that would be enough to counter sitting in -some- water ( in the reservoir ) in a warmer climate..

Like i had said before, you could try out the technique with easy stuff  to get an idea of how it works.  Can see it working for palms that like water, esp. if they are kept in bright shade / no direct sun  ..Not sure about palms that like things dry though.

 

[Palmfarmer]

On 9/11/2023 at 10:03 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

If you're using just large pumice ( what the guy in the video is using ) w/ out ANY organic stuff ( Peat = will rot, easily, Ground Coconut ..will eventually decompose as well )    it might work ...with a couple caveats.

In the video, he's laying down a few inches deep layer of Pumice in the base of the new pot, before placing the palm on top of that new layer,  and then back filling the space around the newly installed rootball w/ more Pumice. I see what he's getting at w/ the new roots " seeking out " the water in the bottom " basin " ..below where he drilled the holes..  Only problem i see is..

Because he is in Sweden, it is a lot cooler, even in summer, compared to here ..or there in Durango. Warmer the weather, warmer the water sitting in the bottom of the pot can get.

Since it is sitting in the bottom, rather than constantly flowing through it, the water can end up going stagnant. ..IE: Oxygen content in the water is depleted, which encourages anaerobic bacteria, ..which can further suck oxygen out of the soil and cause roots to start rotting. 

Yes, being that the palm is in 100% Pumice, there will be more oxygen cycling through the soil, compared to a soil mix with -any- organics in it, but it's hard to say if that would be enough to counter sitting in -some- water ( in the reservoir ) in a warmer climate..

Like i had said before, you could try out the technique with easy stuff  to get an idea of how it works.  Can see it working for palms that like water, esp. if they are kept in bright shade / no direct sun  ..Not sure about palms that like things dry though.

 

The weird thing is he uses closed containers using this method as well for some indoor plants. So no drainage hole at all. 

The mix he recommends is pumice with a bit of Clay, Peat or Vermiculite for nutrient and water absorption to the medium. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Palmfarmer

[Palmfarmer]

I figuere I will try the resorvoir with one of the smaller Trachies.  

For than one I will try with pumice and vermiculite. How much vermiculite? Will 10% be enough to make it hold water better and increase the nutrient holding capacity. Would I gain much by adding a little Biochar as well? ("Charged with wormtea, fishemulsion and kelp.) 

[Silas_Sancona]

10 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

I figuere I will try the resorvoir with one of the smaller Trachies.  

For than one I will try with pumice and vermiculite. How much vermiculite? Will 10% be enough to make it hold water better and increase the nutrient holding capacity. Would I gain much by adding a little Biochar as well? ("Charged with wormtea, fishemulsion and kelp.) 

Pumice -and Biochar-  ( and / or Calcined Clay ) will hold plenty of moisture. No need for Vermiculite.

[Palmfarmer]

37 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Pumice -and Biochar-  ( and / or Calcined Clay ) will hold plenty of moisture. No need for Vermiculite.

Ok, great. How much Biochar in the Mix roughly? 5%? So only biochar and Pumice should hold enough nutrients and water by itself or do I need clay? 

About clay I found some products called Pottasium Clay. I also found regular organic clay in different colors. Could those be used and do you happen to know what Pottasium clay is? 

Need to get som Plumerias now. Anyone spesfic one you recommend that is somewhat cold hardy? 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Palmfarmer

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, Palmfarmer said:

Ok, great. How much Biochar in the Mix roughly? 5%? So only biochar and Pumice should hold enough nutrients and water by itself or do I need clay? 

About clay I found some products called Pottasium Clay. I also found regular organic clay in different colors. Could those be used and do you happen to know what Pottasium clay is? 

Need to get som Plumerias now. Anyone spesfic one you recommend that is somewhat cold hardy? 

Hard to say on the amount of Bio Char..  5 or 10% should be plenty..   As far as the Clay, ..it has to be calcined, like Seramis or Turface MVP or it will quickly break down once wet.  " Calcined " refers to the clay being fired at a high temperature, which makes it more resistant to being broken down when wet.  Will have to look up Potassium Clay, never heard of it..  Regardless, you won't need much of it either ( Holds a good amount of moisture... Can hold too much if used alone / too high a %'age in a soil mix )


As far as Plumeria / " Flor De Mayo " as they're often called there in Mexico, white / white and yellow/ and yellow- colored varieties are generally quite hardy ..Pink flowered ones as well.. Reds / Purple colored ones are often the most cold sensitive. " Rainbow / Fruit Salad "- colored cultivars can be hardy ..or more cold sensitive, depending on parentage.

The one white flowered type of Plumeria that is very cold sensitive, " Singapore " ..Great plant, but not a fan of cold..

Cultivar wise,  Aztec Gold,  Celadine,  Mexi Pink / Cancun,  Thornton Lemon Drop,  are some of the fairly hardy and easy to grow cultivars..  If able to order from them,  Jungle Jack's sells several cultivars that are pretty hardy too ..Just look for mentions of " Cold / Very cold " tolerant in individual cultivar descriptions when selecting ones to try..  Ones i listed are pretty easy to start from cuttings, but, is a little late in the year to start any.  Imagine April / May would be an optimal time to root cutting there.

These days, there are tall " standard-sized varieties, and some " dwarf growers "  that will only get 5ft tall ..and stay 5ft in height for years.. Those are great for growing in something like a 15 or 20 gallon-sized container.

I'd look around neighborhoods near you / in other areas of Durango nearby to see if there are any plants you might be able to get cuttings off of..  The white / yellow form of Plumeria rubra  grows naturally in the mountains not too far west or southwest from you.   Very common in Mazatlan / foothills east of the coast, if you ever get over there..  https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/123438-Plumeria-rubra

[Palmfarmer]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Hard to say on the amount of Bio Char..  5 or 10% should be plenty..   As far as the Clay, ..it has to be calcined, like Seramis or Turface MVP or it will quickly break down once wet.  " Calcined " refers to the clay being fired at a high temperature, which makes it more resistant to being broken down when wet.  Will have to look up Potassium Clay, never heard of it..  Regardless, you won't need much of it either ( Holds a good amount of moisture... Can hold too much if used alone / too high a %'age in a soil mix )


As far as Plumeria / " Flor De Mayo " as they're often called there in Mexico, white / white and yellow/ and yellow- colored varieties are generally quite hardy ..Pink flowered ones as well.. Reds / Purple colored ones are often the most cold sensitive. " Rainbow / Fruit Salad "- colored cultivars can be hardy ..or more cold sensitive, depending on parentage.

The one white flowered type of Plumeria that is very cold sensitive, " Singapore " ..Great plant, but not a fan of cold..

Cultivar wise,  Aztec Gold,  Celadine,  Mexi Pink / Cancun,  Thornton Lemon Drop,  are some of the fairly hardy and easy to grow cultivars..  If able to order from them,  Jungle Jack's sells several cultivars that are pretty hardy too ..Just look for mentions of " Cold / Very cold " tolerant in individual cultivar descriptions when selecting ones to try..  Ones i listed are pretty easy to start from cuttings, but, is a little late in the year to start any.  Imagine April / May would be an optimal time to root cutting there.

These days, there are tall " standard-sized varieties, and some " dwarf growers "  that will only get 5ft tall ..and stay 5ft in height for years.. Those are great for growing in something like a 15 or 20 gallon-sized container.

I'd look around neighborhoods near you / in other areas of Durango nearby to see if there are any plants you might be able to get cuttings off of..  The white / yellow form of Plumeria rubra  grows naturally in the mountains not too far west or southwest from you.   Very common in Mazatlan / foothills east of the coast, if you ever get over there..  https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/123438-Plumeria-rubra

Thank you for great valueable information. I will check the parks I vaguely remember some Plumerias there. 

If I can't get the correct type of clay can I just use a combo of vermiculite and biochar or only Biochar with the pumice? 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Palmfarmer

[Silas_Sancona]

30 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

Thank you for great valueable information. I will check the parks I vaguely remember some Plumerias there. 

If I can't get the correct type of clay can I just use a combo of vermiculite and biochar or only Biochar with the pumice? 

   I'd use just the Biochar w/ the Pumice..

[Palmfarmer]

Wow this is ages ago. I got Pumice and Zeolite and potted up to plumerias in that mix. They lost all leaves in winter and I thought they were goners.. 

However they have come back and are growing really well now:

 

[hbernstein]

I think that folks are generally too hesitant about growing in highly mineralized potting mixes, including succulent growers. Maybe because the entire modern approach to potting has been focused on growing species that like loamy soils. Many plants natively grow in soils or rocky or sandy areas that have little organic matter, even palms.