Transplanting Sabal

[ZPalms]

@Jesse PNW and I went digging today and dug up some free palms and cycads, along with some smaller ones. We're aware that attempting to transplant them is skating on thin ice, with a slim chance of success. We were discussing if removing the fronds from a sabal is necessary during transplanting. We both believe it might not be necessary, but could we be wrong?

I’ll have to get a better photo of the sabal in the daytime 🤠

[BeyondTheGarden]

The picture doesn't do that thing justice.  It looks incredible in person.  

I guess anyone who's ever seen a palm in person can probably understand. 

Should he amend the soil with compost or anything while it's regenerating? 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

I have heard that Sabals once with clear trunk can be transplanted with relative ease. If you had to do major root pruning then cutting back of some fronds is the right thing to do. If the root ball was dug fairly intact then you should be good to go !!! 

T J 

[ZPalms]

18 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

I have heard that Sabals once with clear trunk can be transplanted with relative ease. If you had to do major root pruning then cutting back of some fronds is the right thing to do. If the root ball was dug fairly intact then you should be good to go !!! 

T J 

Yeah we definitely didn’t keep much of a rootball as it would of been impossibly heavy, It hurts that I’ll have to cut off fronds, it looks so good 😭

[ZPalms]

Here’s some better photos in the daytime along with the other smaller ones, I really hope out of a strike of luck they all survive 😭

the photo doesn’t do the big one justice!

[BeyondTheGarden]

That looks really good.  You're probably right about strapping it down.  The little one I put in ground started leaning after the rains today.  

[ZPalms]

1 hour ago, Jesse PNW said:

That looks really good.  You're probably right about strapping it down.  The little one I put in ground started leaning after the rains today.  

I should of gave you a pot, I have some pots that would of made transporting it a lot easier to your new house, If you'd be interested in barrowing one so the sabal won't have to be disturbed again until your new house, the next time I see you?

Edited September 18, 2023 by ZPalms

[PalmatierMeg]

Beautiful Sabal. Looks like it has enough clear trunk (4-6’) so the growing point is out of the ground. You should cut off most of its existing fronds. Transplanted Sabals must regrow new root systems and a bounty of fronds puts stress on it while it tries to concentrate on its roots. The non-trunking palms may not survive transplant as their growing points are all underground and may be fatally damaged. Time will tell.

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Palmatiermeg gave you the correct advice. You should keep no more than the emerging leaf and trim the last one that fully emerged to only 1/4 or even less of it's full size. Try to trim leaves according to how many roots you have.  Too many leaves mean that they will be pulling reserves of energy from other parts of the plant to survive. You want those reserves to be there for the roots. I dug some small ones around the size of the ones you dug from a particularly cold hardy Sabal palmetto in Kinston, N.C. , this past spring. I trimmed them all as I said above and potted them up. It took them all summer to show some growth except for one or two that showed slow growth a month or so later and they were just 2-4 leaf seedlings. The more roots the better. Keep in mind, mine had a summer to recover. I did use a root stimulant and fertilized them with very weak liquid fertilizer. You are going into winter. Protect them. And water , water , water in sand. Trunks also need to be watered.

[BeyondTheGarden]

@PalmatierMeg and @Jeff zone 8 N.C., thank you for your replies. I have a smaller one in a similar situation but the growth point is probably still subterranean. 

I am wondering about the ability of palms to pull nutrient from older fronds. If the plant is resource-constrained, wouldn't the old fronds have utility?

I realize more fronds means more water requirement due to transpiration, but is that not easily offset with a heavy amount of garden hose?

[aztropic]

3 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

@PalmatierMeg @Jeff zone 8 N.C.

I realize more fronds means more water requirement due to transpiration, but is that not easily offset with a heavy amount of garden hose?

Unfortunately,not with cut roots on Sabal species. They almost have to grow new roots for the roots to be functional. Harsh as it sounds,removing most or all of the existing fronds will give it the best chance to reestablish itself before it runs out of moisture.

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

[PalmatierMeg]

Jesse, I would be more concerned that extra leaves would tax and stress the palm more than losing some green leaves would rob it of some nutrients. It is very much the custom in FL that transplanted Sabals are trimmed of most of their leaves; otherwise excess transpiration could lead to a fatal outcome if roots cannot keep up. The palm needs to focus on regrowing its whole root system and can't afford to spend resources on other growth.

[ZPalms]

It hurts so much I’m gonna have to cut the fronds off, but I’m about to head outside in just a little bit and chop them off and give everyone a deep watering again😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[PalmatierMeg]

Sabals are tough palms.

[ZPalms]

necessary but was hard to do 😭

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by ZPalms

[ZPalms]

On 9/18/2023 at 9:15 AM, Jeff zone 8 N.C. said:

Palmatiermeg gave you the correct advice. You should keep no more than the emerging leaf and trim the last one that fully emerged to only 1/4 or even less of it's full size. Try to trim leaves according to how many roots you have.  Too many leaves mean that they will be pulling reserves of energy from other parts of the plant to survive. You want those reserves to be there for the roots. I dug some small ones around the size of the ones you dug from a particularly cold hardy Sabal palmetto in Kinston, N.C. , this past spring. I trimmed them all as I said above and potted them up. It took them all summer to show some growth except for one or two that showed slow growth a month or so later and they were just 2-4 leaf seedlings. The more roots the better. Keep in mind, mine had a summer to recover. I did use a root stimulant and fertilized them with very weak liquid fertilizer. You are going into winter. Protect them. And water , water , water in sand. Trunks also need to be watered.

Can you explain the trunk needs watering part, I find that interesting, I've been watering the trunk but if nobody told me to that I'd probably miss that step

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

The trunk absorbs water just like the roots. Just wet the whole trunk when you water and you are good to go.  Are you going to protect these palms  this winter?

 

[SeanK]

The bud can also dry out. Hopefully it takes hold. Soil warm, air cooling down.

[ZPalms]

4 hours ago, Jeff zone 8 N.C. said:

The trunk absorbs water just like the roots. Just wet the whole trunk when you water and you are good to go.  Are you going to protect these palms  this winter?

 

 

2 hours ago, SeanK said:

The bud can also dry out. Hopefully it takes hold. Soil warm, air cooling down.

That’s so interesting how the trunk can absorb water, I’m definitely protecting the palms this winter, I’m not sure how I want to go about doing it but will try my best, should I be watering the crown or no? I haven’t been but?

[Tom in Tucson]

14 hours ago, Jeff zone 8 N.C. said:

The trunk absorbs water just like the roots. Just wet the whole trunk when you water and you are good to go.  Are you going to protect these palms  this winter?

 

Was this watering method your own discovery, or did you garner this horticultural principle from a reliable source? I know many plants have been proven to absorb water through their leaves, and some that have adventitious roots obviously do, but your assertion (if true) could be very valuable.

Hi 95˚, Lo 64˚

Edited September 21, 2023 by Tom in Tucson

[ZPalms]

Alrighty, here's an update. I'm not sure what to think. I went out yesterday to tug on the leaves, and the two old frond bits came out, but the spear in the center is still strong. I'm not sure what I should do. Should I put hydrogen in, or should I use copper fungicide? Or should I leave it be? I'm gonna try and keep it dry.

[Merlyn]

I'd absolutely do hydrogen peroxide, it looks like there's a fungal infection going on in the crown.  My personal mix is 1qt of H2O2 mixed with 4tsp of Daconil concentrate.  H2O2 reacts and ends up with water, and the Daconil leaves a sticky surface fungicide as a residual action.  There's no visual evidence that H2O2 reacts with and degrades Daconil, but it's possible the mixture isn't as effective as doing H202 first and then Daconil afterwards.  Either way, I'd definitely dose it asap!

[ZPalms]

3 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I'd absolutely do hydrogen peroxide, it looks like there's a fungal infection going on in the crown.  My personal mix is 1qt of H2O2 mixed with 4tsp of Daconil concentrate.  H2O2 reacts and ends up with water, and the Daconil leaves a sticky surface fungicide as a residual action.  There's no visual evidence that H2O2 reacts with and degrades Daconil, but it's possible the mixture isn't as effective as doing H202 first and then Daconil afterwards.  Either way, I'd definitely dose it asap!

Thank you!!!! I can’t get any of that daconil because I’m broke and also don’t know if theirs any places that sell it in person close by but I’ll hit with hydrogen immediately! 

[ZPalms]

Bubbles 

[JLM]

On 12/31/2023 at 9:25 PM, ZPalms said:

Thank you!!!! I can’t get any of that daconil because I’m broke and also don’t know if theirs any places that sell it in person close by but I’ll hit with hydrogen immediately! 

You should be able to find daconil at Lowe’s. The H202/Daconil solution saved my Mule seedling from an infection following last winter. Wish I would’ve made the mixture up sooner, could’ve saved many palms im sure of it. A bottle of that stuff is close to $20 but it’s worth it in the long run.
 

As for the palm, man that thing was beautiful. The infection looks pretty far along based on the pictures, hopefully it’s still salvageable. Best of luck!

[Leelanau Palms]

Yes, we are rooting for you and your most cool palm. Appreciate your adventuresome spirit.

[Merlyn]

I think I bought mine at Ace Hardware for $20-23.  For some odd reason the HD/Lowe's near me only carried the premix sprays in stock, and I wanted the concentrate to make a mix.  I started doing this on the recommendation of someone else on here.  I can't say for sure if the mix is scientifically better than just repeated doses of H2O2.  It may be that H2O2 is doing 95% of the work and Daconil is just along for the ride...or vice versa.  Either way that's a lot of foaminess out of the core!  Repeated doses is a good idea.

[Dwarf Fan]

^^^ Yes repeated doses is key to success but give it several days to a week to dry out between doses.

I used Hydrogen Peroxide on a Trachy Waggie that spear pulled and it is alive and throwing many new fronds today I treated it by pouring hydrogen peroxide from the pharmacy straight into the crown once every week for a month with excellent results. No Daconil.

[ZPalms]

4 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I think I bought mine at Ace Hardware for $20-23.  For some odd reason the HD/Lowe's near me only carried the premix sprays in stock, and I wanted the concentrate to make a mix.  I started doing this on the recommendation of someone else on here.  I can't say for sure if the mix is scientifically better than just repeated doses of H2O2.  It may be that H2O2 is doing 95% of the work and Daconil is just along for the ride...or vice versa.  Either way that's a lot of foaminess out of the core!  Repeated doses is a good idea.

 

13 hours ago, JLM said:

You should be able to find daconil at Lowe’s. The H202/Daconil solution saved my Mule seedling from an infection following last winter. Wish I would’ve made the mixture up sooner, could’ve saved many palms im sure of it. A bottle of that stuff is close to $20 but it’s worth it in the long run.
 

As for the palm, man that thing was beautiful. The infection looks pretty far along based on the pictures, hopefully it’s still salvageable. Best of luck!

Even though I already hit it with peroxide, I’m going to get some Daconil, should I wait a week before I try that or should I go ahead and pour it in?

[aztropic]

Pour some in as soon as you get it. Current walmart price is $18.66 for 16 ounce concentrate, although, with planning,  you can usually pick it up cheap in the fall when they clearance lots of the smaller packaged bug and fertilizer solutions. 

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

[ZPalms]

28 minutes ago, aztropic said:

Pour some in as soon as you get it. Current walmart price is $18.66 for 16 ounce concentrate, although, with planning,  you can usually pick it up cheap in the fall when they clearance lots of the smaller packaged bug and fertilizer solutions. 

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

I just went to walmart and lowes and didn't see any 😭 I'll have to keep on pouring peroxide until I can get my hands on some, I have copper fungicide though in a spray bottle

[aztropic]

Use the copper! It's a severe infection by the looks of the foaming H2O2. 

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

[Merlyn]

Copper is good too, just don't do a lot of repeated doses of it.  I recall reading it was phytotoxic when dosed too much, or too often.

[Chester B]

I've never seen Daconil up here, I always use copper.  Never had a problem.

[ZPalms]

I'll have to wait tomorrow because it will be below freezing tonight, thanks guys!