"Super Mule" - Is it really that cold hardy?

[MarcusH]

Can anyone tell me the difference between a regular Mule and a Super Mule ? What other palm species was added to the regular Mule Palm ? Is it really cold hardier ? Any proof ?

[DAVEinMB]

@MarcusH here's a link for you. Super mule is butia crossed with jubaea then crossed with queen. Gorgeous palm

https://wanderlustnursery.com/shop/products/p/super-mule-palm

 

[SailorBold]

  On 9/29/2023 at 11:02 PM, DAVEinMB said:

@MarcusH here's a link for you. Super mule is butia crossed with jubaea then crossed with queen. Gorgeous palm

https://wanderlustnursery.com/shop/products/p/super-mule-palm

 

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BxJxB is a very tough spear hardy palm.. I have a Shaefer hybrid..which is all I currently have.. but I'd suspect the BxJ to have more hybrid vigor as well.. so I'd argue the Super Mule is going to be alot hardier to spear pulls.. so from what I've seen.. its going to be a hardier palm for sure.

[Dwarf Fan]

My research says the Mule and Super Mule are both Cold Hardy to the mid teens with “15F” being in my notes on both.

I haven’t found anything that would suggest more Hardiness from the Super Mule, of course addition of the Jubaea x should have a positive effect on cold hardiness in theory by minimizing the influence of the Queen genetics, but do we have any boots on ground hard evidence that a Super Mule actually has any more hardiness over the standard Mule even by a few degrees?

Or are they both “mid-teens” BUT, with a slightly less chance of spear pull on a jubutiagrus?

[scarecrow]

Don't expect to be able to grow it in zone 7 without winter protection.

[Gallop]

  On 9/30/2023 at 12:38 AM, Dwarf Fan said:

My research says the Mule and Super Mule are both Cold Hardy to the mid teens with “15F” being in my notes on both.

I haven’t found anything that would suggest more Hardiness from the Super Mule, of course addition of the Jubaea x should have a positive effect on cold hardiness in theory by minimizing the influence of the Queen genetics, but do we have any boots on ground hard evidence that a Super Mule actually has any more hardiness over the standard Mule even by a few degrees?

Or are they both “mid-teens” BUT, with a slightly less chance of spear pull on a jubutiagrus?

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My spears pulled on my super mules at 20°f —consecutive day freeze event. They were small palms. I treated with coper fungicide and they were fine by Spring, with new growth. Not certain if they are any more cold tolerant than the regular mule palm. The percentage of jubaea in the Dr Wilcox cross is likley small.

For reference, my Patrix BXJXS (small) growing next to the supermule did not have spear pull. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Gallop

[Dwarf Fan]

  On 9/30/2023 at 1:59 AM, Gallop said:

My spears pulled on my super mules at 20°f —consecutive day freeze event. They were small palms. I treated with coper fungicide and they were fine by Spring, with new growth. Not certain if they are any more cold tolerant than the regular mule palm. The percentage of jubaea in the Dr Wilcox cross is likley small.

For reference, my Patrix BXJXS (small) growing next to the supermule did not have spear pull. 

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Did you get your Super Mules that spear pulled 20°f and recovered by spring from Moultrie?

Thanks for sharing the side by side report with Patrix BXJXS that is very interesting…

[Tom in Tucson]

  On 9/29/2023 at 11:02 PM, DAVEinMB said:

@MarcusH here's a link for you. Super mule is butia crossed with jubaea then crossed with queen. Gorgeous palm

https://wanderlustnursery.com/shop/products/p/super-mule-palm

 

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The link shows a palm with about a 6" higher trunk than my BJxQ. When I bought it from P. Schafer, I had no idea it was a Super Mule. I wish I had bought 2.

Hi 102°, Lo 64°

[RFun]

  On 9/30/2023 at 12:38 AM, Dwarf Fan said:

My research says the Mule and Super Mule are both Cold Hardy to the mid teens with “15F” being in my notes on both.

I haven’t found anything that would suggest more Hardiness from the Super Mule, of course addition of the Jubaea x should have a positive effect on cold hardiness in theory by minimizing the influence of the Queen genetics, but do we have any boots on ground hard evidence that a Super Mule actually has any more hardiness over the standard Mule even by a few degrees?

Or are they both “mid-teens” BUT, with a slightly less chance of spear pull on a jubutiagrus?

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I think you are pretty much right.  There really isn't any real, fool proof way to tell if every single "Super Mule" would be hardier than the standard "Mule".  I think it all depends on the genetics.  If you have a batch from a colder area, those palms are likely to display better hardiness no matter whether they are "Super Mules" or "Mules".  It never fails that some palms of the same variety are found to be less hardy than another batch.  It happens time and time again and explains much of the confusion over hardiness of a certain palm.  It can definitely vary.  You really just have to experiment around with this stuff if you want to find out.

Edited September 30, 2023 by RFun

[Gallop]

  On 9/30/2023 at 2:46 AM, Dwarf Fan said:

Did you get your Super Mules that spear pulled 20°f and recovered by spring from Moultrie?

Thanks for sharing the side by side report with Patrix BXJXS that is very interesting…

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yes, Moultrie. If I had to make a guess, I would be willing to bet Patrix BXJXS has more Jubaea in it. Both are nice palms. 

As mentioned with hybrids plants can be variable. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Gallop

[Chester B]

If you look through all the old threads what you'll find is that there appears to be no distinguishable difference in hardiness between a standard and a so called "Super" mule.

[Dwarf Fan]

  On 9/30/2023 at 4:10 PM, Chester B said:

If you look through all the old threads what you'll find is that there appears to be no distinguishable difference in hardiness between a standard and a so called "Super" mule.

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I thought the “super” was just because the fronds are a little more vertical creating a more “voluptuous fountain like appearance”with a larger crown than the standard Mule.

Not because of any cold hardy “super” ability.

Do we know definitively what makes the Super Mule “super”?

[SeanK]

I don't see where these resemble Coconut palms at all. For the price, I'd stick with a B.odorata

[Scott W]

Mule is Butia x Syagrus, Super Mule adds in Jubaea to the mix.  

In the case of Moultrie Palms', Franks are ((Jubaea x Butia) X Butia) x Syagrus

I believe the ones Patrick created are (Butia x Jubaea) x syagrus

My observations growing both from seedling size is the super mule is growing faster than the regular mule.  Mule is in the middle, super mules left and right.

[Scott W]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:18 PM, SeanK said:

I don't see where these resemble Coconut palms at all. For the price, I'd stick with a B.odorata

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From a trunk appearance, no, but from a foliage appearance, yes. 

[Dwarf Fan]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:18 PM, SeanK said:

I don't see where these resemble Coconut palms at all. For the price, I'd stick with a B.odorata

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Everyone has their own taste in frond/trunk appearance I suppose, but “tropical looks” aside the Mule/Super Mule growth rate Vs B. Odorata is also a big factor and advantage for me. 

[JLM]

Here is mine (Super Mule), bought it from Moultrie last summer. I kept it in a pot long enough to grow fully out of the strap leaf stage, and was able to plant it earlier this year. It has grown quite a lot since then! Im not sure im ready to let it get exposed to bitter cold, so likely will protect below 25F this winter. By next winter, hopefully itll be big enough to let it go by 2024-2025 winter by itself with minimal protection if needed.

This image was in March of this year:


This image was about a week ago:


Its already an absolutely gorgeous palm, cant wait to see how it looks by the end of next summer. (PS: The Sabal palmetto in the background has also grown quite a bit, which makes me even happier!)

Edited October 1, 2023 by JLM