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ID possible New Cal species

DoomsDave

By DoomsDave
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
Posted

Howdy all

This is a palm outside my bedroom window, that’s about 20 feet 6.7 m tall, that’s blooming and might set seed.

I remember a Palm Talker ( @BS Man about Palms I think ) provided a tentative ID a while back; maybe the inflorescence will aid in firming up an ID a bit.

All thoughts appreciated!

B6B45B7F-1A60-43A0-8E5F-0CA167EF3CCE.thumb.jpeg.3df4b3eeeb1f297c61e7bf8a6b14e846.jpeg

25E3AF10-A7D9-40B2-8D2C-BB7F1FC8D1C7.thumb.jpeg.7604369dbcb604fa2b0aeea63daa81c8.jpeg

 

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09EAB027-0A10-4763-9840-8A375B9A55E3.jpeg

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

tim_brissy_13 Grand Master

tim_brissy_13

Posted
Posted

Looks like Cyphophoenix nucele but I’m not 100%. 

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Tim Brisbane

Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

Rarely Frost

2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

Posted
Posted

Off the top of my head, Kentiopsis oliviformis.. but I need to look closer..

 

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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
  • Author
Posted
7 hours ago, BS Man about Palms said:

Off the top of my head, Kentiopsis oliviformis.. but I need to look closer..

 

Thanks for chiming in!

Close, but I'm pretty sure that's not it. I've got four ollies and they're all a much much darker green. And, none have hit the Big P yet. (Puberty.)

That time you visited, you made a point of saying that it wasn't Cyphophoenix alba.

If you need other angles, or a particular view, let me know.

  • Like 1

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Climbed up on the roof

And here’s the crown @BS Man about Palms

CDBA8ED5-AC61-4FD3-AABE-A783D05CB4D5.thumb.jpeg.c936281bcbb0cdcf4a829638f5d21a69.jpeg
 

And here’s a Kentiopsis Ollie 

88C378ED-D3C5-458B-9C84-DD308E131D9F.thumb.jpeg.3f6e4518d409c071166212c0bcb7bf15.jpeg

 

  • Upvote 1

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Rob123 Enthusiast

Rob123

Posted
Posted

The first set of photos look Cyphopheonix Nucele but the second to last shot almost looks like Burretiokentia Dumasii (at least color wise). The crown shaft kind of looks too clean for Dumasii but I have one from Josh that’s in full sun and it’s real upright with short petioles sort of like your first photos.
 

Do the fronds open with any color? Either way it would rule out quite a few New Cal species. 

  • Upvote 1
Matt in SD Veteran

Matt in SD

Posted
Posted

I'm sort of stumped Dave.  I would say that if it's not Cyphophoenix nucele, then it's not a New Cal Palm.  So my first thought was C nucele, but it has less tomentum on crown than mine, and the basal leaflet was bugging me.  I went and looked at my C nucele, which is about the same size, and the basal leaflet is fairly narrow, and just a single "V" attachment, but the basal leaflet on yours is like super fat with an accordion patterned connection (up down, up down, up down). It's basically several leaflets fused together. I can see this on all visible leaves on yours, whereas mine has no basal leaflets even remotely resembling that.  So maybe there is variability in C nucele (there is some variability in K oliviformis, so not totally insane). But I just looked at a LOT of New Cal palms and NONE had this fused basal leaflet.  It's clearly not C elegans, doesn't look at all like any Burretiokentia, or Chambeyronia, or cyphosperma, and way to big to be cyphokentia or any of the other more rare New Cal's.  So, I'm still stuck on either a weird variant of C nucele or it's not a New Cal palm at all.

Matt

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San Diego

0.6 Acres of a south facing, gently sloped dirt pile, soon to be impenetrable jungle

East of Mount Soledad, in the biggest cold sink in San Diego County.

Zone 10a (I hope), Sunset 24

tim_brissy_13 Grand Master

tim_brissy_13

Posted
Posted

I’m more confident in saying C nucele after the second photo. The fused basal leaflets are a bit odd, but those kind of features can vary between specimens and could be the result of trying to squeeze through the canopy or minor nutrient deficiency. The trunk, crownshaft, inflorescence and fronds are just too much of a match for C nucele to be anything else in my opinion. 

  • Upvote 1

Tim Brisbane

Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

Rarely Frost

2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

Matt in OC Grand Master

Matt in OC

Posted
Posted

Stumped as well. Shouldn’t Nucele have ramenta on the underside of the leaflets?

  • Like 1
KrisKupsch Proficient

KrisKupsch

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Looks like Cyphophoenix nucele but I’m not 100%. 

I agree

BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

Posted
Posted

Glad I'm not the only one a bit mystified. Any "old pics" Dave?  I initially thought a Cyphophoenix elegans, if the leaf types are the ragged praemorse tips, I'd stick with that. If not ragged tips,    I'd agree with the nucele. Only thing is, from what I've seen, the elegans ease of growth in So Cal prevents very many large ones to be seen here. Elegans out grows the nucele 3 to 1 speedwise and planting success.
Yet the one pic I can see with leaf ends fused looks like Dictyosperma.... but still..

Then I thought Prestoea montana...  To me the crown looks too "round" for a Burretiokentia...

Time to do a history memory test Dave!

  • Upvote 1

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

richnorm Grand Master

richnorm

Posted
Posted

Got a pic of the underside of a leaflet to show ramenta?

  • Upvote 1
LJG Grand Master

LJG

Posted
Posted

100% Cyphophoenix nucele. Flower match, plus you can see the reins. Only NewCal where it is so prominent. 

  • Upvote 3

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 10/3/2023 at 11:22 PM, LJG said:

100% Cyphophoenix nucele. Flower match, plus you can see the reins. Only NewCal where it is so prominent. 

You’re the closest so far; gonna wait till the blossoms open and see what they look like. 

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Ooomph! Climbed up on the roof again.

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  • Like 1

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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