Help with King Palms

[Campbellsa]

Hi all, I'm new to this forum and hoping for some great advice! 

I had these 3 king palms planted in my backyard in May (purchased from Home Depot, 15 gallon pots).  After the heat in the summer, they went from green to some slight browning on the leaves, and now to the current condition.  I had one landscaper tell me to double the watering, and another tell me the roots were drowning and to cut back significantly.  So I'm a bit at a loss as it relates to the watering, but also generally the diagnosis of what's wrong and how to treat it.  One landscaper said to spray with fungicide, and recommended either copper fungicice or a product called Bio Advanced 3-in-1.  I have them watering on a drip system, which was using the 360 spray emitters (lots of water), but switched out to 4 2gph emitters now running 1 hour per week (8 gallons per week total).  

I've attached several photos.  My main concern is of course, are they ok and healthy and this is temporary?  Second, what is the appropriate watering amount and treatment/fungicide? 

Please help, thank you!!

 

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 10/5/2023 at 4:29 PM, Campbellsa said:

Hi all, I'm new to this forum and hoping for some great advice! 

I had these 3 king palms planted in my backyard in May (purchased from Home Depot, 15 gallon pots).  After the heat in the summer, they went from green to some slight browning on the leaves, and now to the current condition.  I had one landscaper tell me to double the watering, and another tell me the roots were drowning and to cut back significantly.  So I'm a bit at a loss as it relates to the watering, but also generally the diagnosis of what's wrong and how to treat it.  One landscaper said to spray with fungicide, and recommended either copper fungicice or a product called Bio Advanced 3-in-1.  I have them watering on a drip system, which was using the 360 spray emitters (lots of water), but switched out to 4 2gph emitters now running 1 hour per week (8 gallons per week total).  

I've attached several photos.  My main concern is of course, are they ok and healthy and this is temporary?  Second, what is the appropriate watering amount and treatment/fungicide? 

Please help, thank you!!

 

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 Welcome to the forum..

They're looking a bit dry, imo.. To grow / look their best, King palms like LOTS of water ( And a good quality, slow release synthetic, or organic Fertilizer ) .  Assuming they were planted relatively recently, the burn you're seeing would be normal wear n' tear as they adapt to life outdoors in more sun, esp. after a warmer summer. 

Many of the Big Box nurseries will source these / other palms from places where they are grown in more shade / Greenhouse -type conditions, so, when planted in normal outdoor conditions, they often go through a period where the older, shade- grown fronds will burn off, ..while newer, more sun- tolerant fronds are produced.

Keep them watered ..a good, deep soak  ..at least 2x's a week,  fertilize 3 or 4x's /yr,  and they'll take off and look great in no time.

[Campbellsa]

Thank you this is a big relief! 
 

Is there a rule of thumb for how and how much to water? Like a certain amount of gallons per watering or per week? The trees are currently 4-6’ tall. Also should the water be placed near the trunks or farther out? One landscaper suggested 2-3 feet away from the trunk to avoid root rot. 
 

Also should I spray with fungicide?

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 10/5/2023 at 7:29 PM, Campbellsa said:

Thank you this is a big relief! 
 

Is there a rule of thumb for how and how much to water? Like a certain amount of gallons per watering or per week? The trees are currently 4-6’ tall. Also should the water be placed near the trunks or farther out? One landscaper suggested 2-3 feet away from the trunk to avoid root rot. 
 

Also should I spray with fungicide?

Expand  

I'll leave the " how much / how often " specifics to our S.Cal members like @DoomsDave, but as a general rule, i wouldn't apply water directly on the trunks / root crown.. ..about 2ft away should be alright. This will help the roots seek out the moisture, while keeping the trunk base / root crown  drier ( but not " dry " ..if that makes any sense )


One thing to keep in mind as we head into the cooler months.. you shouldn't  <  ..esp. if the winter ahead ends up wet again out there.. >  have to water all that much since moisture will remain in the soil longer than it typically does during the summer months..

Spraying any fungicide won't do a thing for the dried out leaves.. What i would do is find ..and mark.. the newest spears in the crown ( where the new leaves emerge ) with a sharpie.. then watch how quickly those newer spears are moving as they grow..  That will give you a good idea of how well they are progressing as they settle in..

As for the dried out fronds / portions of the fronds, allow the entire frond and leafstalk to completely dry out before removing.  While the dry stuff might look unappealing, palms recycle nutrients from older fronds as new ones are produced. Cutting off green fronds can deprive the plant of nutrients.  King Palms are self - cleaning, which means dried out fronds will naturally  be shed from the crownshaft of the palm.

[Jim in Los Altos]

  On 10/5/2023 at 7:29 PM, Campbellsa said:

Thank you this is a big relief! 
 

Is there a rule of thumb for how and how much to water? Like a certain amount of gallons per watering or per week? The trees are currently 4-6’ tall. Also should the water be placed near the trunks or farther out? One landscaper suggested 2-3 feet away from the trunk to avoid root rot. 
 

Also should I spray with fungicide?

Expand  

They are semi aquatic palms and will happily grow in water year round. I have 50 King palms up here in the Bay Area and they are all well watered. I have few growing in a sunken 700 gallon former fish pond with no drain holes, filled with just gravel and stagnant water right up to their trunk bases and they LOVE it. So anyone telling you that you’re over watering is just wrong. King palms spread their roots far from their trunks, often 30-40 feet out so watering the soil out beyond their drip line would be preferable to just watering at the base of their trunks. Yours will adjust and grow well. They are in an adjustment period now. 
 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Jim in Los Altos

[Campbellsa]

Wow I appreciate this advice so much!! So I shouldn’t worry? I guess I’m just trying to figure out roughly how to set my drip system and struggling a bit. Any idea what a “happy medium” amount of weekly water would be? Sounds like 8 gallons isn’t enough but I don’t necessarily want to go overboard either and waste water. 

[DoomsDave]

@Campbellsa nice to meet you! I see you're up in the Valley, where it gets a bit hot and dry.

I'm gonna put on my gorilla suit, run around in circles and emphasize and concur with what @Jim in Los Altos and @Silas_Sancona said:

MORE WATER IS BETTER!

Sorry for being a bit crude, but Kings are Swamp Things. I've got some too, they are GLORIOUS if you can keep them happy.

The Valley has pretty good soil. If you have clay, you are in the King Palm Promised Land; all you need for paradise is to have your very own swamp, which, I realize isn't conducive to hard-core suburban living.

The really good news is you just need to give them good water, but you don't have to put yourself in the poorhouse. My beautiful babies get overhead water from a sprinkler every couple weeks or so for a couple-three hours. You can also do focused drip, so you don't have to water the whole yard.

Also, there's a lot more to palmy life in California than just kings.

[DoomsDave]

Here’s some of my Archontophoenix 

[Campbellsa]

Thank you all so much!  So sounds like I'll err on the side of more water.  It's pretty confusing, there are many articles online that really warn against too much water.

Just a couple specific follow ups:

1) Is there anything you recommend I do about the brown spots on the leaves?

2) If you HAD to guess, around what amount (gallons) of water makes sense.  With the drip system I can pretty much water as much or little as I want, it's easy to reset.  10 gallons/week?  50 gallons/week?

Edited October 5, 2023 by Campbellsa
typo

[DoomsDave]

  On 10/5/2023 at 10:25 PM, Campbellsa said:

Thank you all so much!  So sounds like I'll err on the side of more water.  It's pretty confusing, there are many articles online that really warn against too much water.

Just a couple specific follow ups:

1) Is there anything you recommend I do about the brown spots on the leaves?

2) If you HAD to guess, around what amount (gallons) of water makes sense.  With the drip system I can pretty much water as much or little as I want, it's easy to reset.  10 gallons/week?  50 gallons/week?

Expand  

Some palms do hate too much water. KINGS ARE NOT ONE OF THEM. Swamp Kings!

1) I wouldn't worry about the brown spots. When they start to grow, there'll be new leaves nice and green.

2) Good question about the amount; I say err on the greater side, certainly when the palms are big like Jim's or mine (maybe 100 gallons/week?) but in the meantime, not sure.

[DoomsDave]

Also, kings are wonderful and we all love them, but there’s other kinds just as wonderful.

Some from my garden:

 

[Merlyn]

One thing to look for is the condition of the *new* leaves.  In the photos it looks like the old (likely grown under shade cloth) got sunburned and were "eaten" by the palm to power new root and frond growth.  So it's not unusual for the original leaves to turn brown, spotty, sunburnt, and ratty.  I'd leave them on there until they are totally brown, as the palm will pull nutrients from the old leaves to help grow new ones.  In general the "new" leaves look pretty good.  One trick you can do to monitor the growth rate is to mark the new spears horizontally with a sharpie.  If you mark the new spear and the older one next to it, you can see how fast the frond is growing.  If it's growing steadily a couple of inches per week then it's doing well.  If it's stalled then there might be something wrong.

[Campbellsa]

All great info, thank you! Sounds like I should up the watering, will start with 30-40 gallons per week per tree. I’ll just keep the drips a couple feet away from the trunk. I’ve marked the fresh leaves with sharpie and will keep track. Great news about not needing to worry about the brown, sounds like it is to be expected and those leaves will eventually be replaced. 

[Jlewis3]

  On 10/5/2023 at 11:14 PM, DoomsDave said:

Also, kings are wonderful and we all love them, but there’s other kinds just as wonderful.

Some from my garden:

 

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Wow look at that beautiful Chambeyronia macrocarpa and the rest of your garden/jungle! I’m still waiting for my Chambeyronias to germinate.. 😞

[JubaeaMan138]

  On 10/5/2023 at 4:29 PM, Campbellsa said:

Hi all, I'm new to this forum and hoping for some great advice! 

I had these 3 king palms planted in my backyard in May (purchased from Home Depot, 15 gallon pots).  After the heat in the summer, they went from green to some slight browning on the leaves, and now to the current condition.  I had one landscaper tell me to double the watering, and another tell me the roots were drowning and to cut back significantly.  So I'm a bit at a loss as it relates to the watering, but also generally the diagnosis of what's wrong and how to treat it.  One landscaper said to spray with fungicide, and recommended either copper fungicice or a product called Bio Advanced 3-in-1.  I have them watering on a drip system, which was using the 360 spray emitters (lots of water), but switched out to 4 2gph emitters now running 1 hour per week (8 gallons per week total).  

I've attached several photos.  My main concern is of course, are they ok and healthy and this is temporary?  Second, what is the appropriate watering amount and treatment/fungicide? 

Please help, thank you!!

 

Expand  

I was never a big fan of king palms mainly because everyone I seen growing in most landscapes around here looked horrible . They always look fried and stunted it seems . So all the variety’s of kings I’ve grown have done extremely well for Me in shade early on and lots Of water during spring and summer . Next spring summer is throw some shade over them water heavy and lots of fertilizer . I imagine they will look amazing. Be careful watering to Much right now heading In to our colder months 

[Jim in Los Altos]

  On 11/3/2023 at 5:44 PM, JubaeaMan138 said:

I was never a big fan of king palms mainly because everyone I seen growing in most landscapes around here looked horrible . They always look fried and stunted it seems . So all the variety’s of kings I’ve grown have done extremely well for Me in shade early on and lots Of water during spring and summer . Next spring summer is throw some shade over them water heavy and lots of fertilizer . I imagine they will look amazing. Be careful watering to Much right now heading In to our colder months 

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He’s in the Santa Monica area so no need to cut back watering any time of year. Up here where I live, my king palms are often in saturated soil during winter due to sometimes relentless rains and by the end of winter, they look better than any other time of year even though I water them well during the dry season. If we are having a dryer winter, irrigation is kept turned on.

[DoomsDave]

  On 11/3/2023 at 5:24 PM, jordantlewis3 said:

Wow look at that beautiful Chambeyronia macrocarpa and the rest of your garden/jungle! I’m still waiting for my Chambeyronias to germinate.. 😞

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They'll take a few months. If you're wondering about their status, reach into the pot and pull out of the dirt and look at them. If they're still solid, i.e., not rotting, they might just be taking their time. They usually take about three months - I've germinated hundreds from my trees. PM me, if you like.

[jgi27]

I have more than 30+ King Palms bought from HD. They all looked like yours the first few months, but they turned out fine.

What I did was I cut off and disposed the leaves with spots. Not all, but a lot of them. I amended the soil with Palm Soil https://www.homedepot.com/p/Kellogg-Garden-Organics-1-cu-ft-Palm-Cactus-and-Citrus-All-Purpose-Indoor-and-Outdoor-Mix-137/202247318   I also created a dam around the trees so the water pools when I water them, and not spill outside and get wasted. Here in SoCal, they seem to like a lot of water.  I water mine every other day when they were that size.

The frond ends turn brown & dry out because they're not used to sudden intense sun. If you nitice where they put them in HD, they're all bunched together where they don't really get hit with direct sun unlike your yard.