Head scratcher !

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

As I was browsing around the container ranch I stumbled onto a palm seedling that really has me stumped. After a quick Google search and palm talk search I got absolutely zero help on this palm ID. So now I'll ask all the professionals haha. At first glance I thought it was just another sabal seedling variety but once I started to pay a little more attention I noticed all the microscopic hooks all over the fronds. I'm use to seeing hooks on the petiole but not on the frond itself , which is why I'm thrown off lol. It also seems to be the only one I have kept alive. Pretty decent grower I'm guessing, with a pretty deep root root system in a 4x14 tree pot. I have tried so many different seeds over the years which doesn't help the situation. I really need to get better at labeling =/ Any guesses will help the process of elimination for me. 

T J 

[Palmiz]

My wild guess would be Copernicia Macroglossa, I just noticed that recently on my seedlings.

[PalmsandLiszt]

It looks much too big to be Copernicia (at least the ones I've grown) if the pot is 4" across. They start off as tiny blades of grass and by the time they get to that size the leaves will no longer be strap. This palm looks like those are its first four leaves. A 4-leaf Copernicia seedling would be much smaller and shorter.

No idea what it is, though. Something from a much bigger seed.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

57 minutes ago, Palmiz said:

My wild guess would be Copernicia Macroglossa, I just noticed that recently on my seedlings.

I was leaning towards a copernicia sp. since I have tried plenty of seeds. This one definitely has a different growth pattern if it is. Does any of the copernicia sp. have hooks on the fronds ? I know they have hooks on the petiole. 

 

24 minutes ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

A 4-leaf Copernicia seedling would be much smaller and shorter

I agree in my limited Copernicia experience. 

T J 

[Fusca]

7 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

I was leaning towards a copernicia sp. since I have tried plenty of seeds. This one definitely has a different growth pattern if it is. Does any of the copernicia sp. have hooks on the fronds ? I know they have hooks on the petiole.

T J 

I believe what @PalmsandLiszt suggested is true for the Cuban/Caribbean Copernicia species.  Both C. alba and prunifera from South America do have the saw-like teeth up and down the strap leaf and petiole.  My guess is C. prunifera since I remember seeds offered for sale here in the past couple of years.  The thorny hooks remain along the edge of adult leaves on alba (I've been stuck on them many times walking too close to mine!) but not sure on prunifera.  I'll have to check on mine later today.

[JohnAndSancho]

Send it to me, TJ, and I'll let you know what it is in a year or so 😎

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

@Fusca so I definitely have tried almost all of the Copernicia seeds that have been made available thru PT. For sure Alba - Prunifera - Macroglossa - Hospita. Supposedly the more cold hardy ones. Just went to check my Alba no hooks on fronds only petiole. This seedling isn't squat one bit and thin trunk with long strap leafs. 

T J 

[Fusca]

38 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

@Fusca so I definitely have tried almost all of the Copernicia seeds that have been made available thru PT. For sure Alba - Prunifera - Macroglossa - Hospita. Supposedly the more cold hardy ones. Just went to check my Alba no hooks on fronds only petiole. This seedling isn't squat one bit and thin trunk with long strap leafs. 

T J 

Interesting.  I just checked my seedlings and found the hooks on the strap leaves of prunifera, yaray, macroglossa and hospita!  I've not grown alba from seed but bought a strap-leaf seedling from Joseph that had the hooks too.  The Cubans do seem to start out with a long first strap leaf but then subsequent strap leaves come out shorter.  I don't recall if my prunifera acted that way or not.  My larger alba and prunifera seem to have outgrown the leaf hooks.  Just to add to the confusion I noticed the leaf hooks on a strap-leaf Livistona decora also.  That's the only other seedling that I have noticed this trait.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

2 hours ago, Fusca said:

Just to add to the confusion I noticed the leaf hooks on a strap-leaf Livistona decora also.  That's the only other seedling that I have noticed this trait

So that was my next genus that I thought could be it but I haven't tried nearly as many Livistona seeds. I was thinking it could be a Livistona Mariae as I had 1 survivor but thought I had finally killed it = / maybe this could be it haha 

T J 

[96720]

Not Mariae it is maroon as a small palm!!

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

10 hours ago, 96720 said:

Not Mariae it is maroon as a small palm!!

Yeah since this has been in my container ranch it gets filtered light. I may put it in full sun to see if it will maroon up , if that's what it is. Growth pattern seems more of a Livistona then a Copernicia. 

T J