Potassium deficiency in Pygmy Palm

[Susanmarie8]

Hello!  I have a trio of Pygmy Palms that need help. We're in Central Florida, 9b.

With advice I received from this group a while back I realized they were potassium deficient.  I began deep watering weekly and feeding the Pygmy Palms with fertilizer described as "ample amounts of nitrogen, potassium, magnesium, iron, sulfur, and other micronutrients to produce lush green growth and vibrant colors. PalmGain 8-2-12 palm fertilizer is the easy way to ensure plants have these meaningful elements. Recommended palm formula by the University of Florida IFAS.

The center fronds seemed to be doing OK, but the outer fronds...still a brown, curly mess. I was removing fronds only when completely brown and dead 

Enter my lawn guy...he did me the "favor" of giving these palms the 10 to 2 cut. 😥 He cut away at least half, probably more like two-thirds of the fronds.

Honestly, I think that's how the trouble began. I now remember he did the same thing to the trees after we moved in.  They were fine. He gave them this extreme cut, and they've never been healthy since.

I'd like to try to save these trees. 

I've been giving fertilizer once a month beginning in March. 

The questions I have are...

1. When do we stop fertilizing in Central Florida 9b?

 

2. And, do I now supplement potash? If so, when do I give it and how often?

The pictures are what the trees and fronds look like today. You can see my neighbor's Pygmy Palms in the background. They look awesome.

Thank you!

[Merlyn]

Palms will "eat" the old fronds to power new growth, so by cutting off the old ones aggressively your lawn guy deprived the palm of nutrients.  When it could no longer eat the oldest ones, it went up to the next round of fronds.  You can replace it with additional fertilizer + water, but leaving the fronds on longer will help the palm longterm.  It's "natural" for the oldest fronds to start looking ratty as they get older.  Usually if they are well below horizontal and still looking pretty good, then you've hit the sweet spot in terms of water and nutrition. 

As far as fertilizer goes, I plan to do another round next week for the whole yard and then again in early March.  Nutrient bioavailability doesn't really drop off until soil temps go below 50F, so in Central Florida technically you could fertilize all year.  I don't bother in December-February because the palms are only growing very, very slowly.  Unless the palm is susceptible to cold yellowing from Potassium or Magnesium deficiencies, it might not make a lot of difference.  Since you are fighting a deficiency that your lawn guy "helped" you with, maybe do a 1/2 dose monthly in the winter to avoid future yellowing?

Since the tips are curled/frizzled/yellowed, you could add some Langbeinite/SulPoMag/KMag as a supplement.  I do this on my Alfredii and pygmy dates, and it does seem to help avoid the yellow tips.  If the tips were straight but yellowed, I'd think it's mostly magnesium.  But yours is probably a combo of Potassium and Magnesium, and Langbeinite is great for that.  I bought a 50lb bag from Seven Springs Farm supply for about $70 delivered.  A handful or two would be more than enough for your palms, so a smaller bag might make more sense.   https://www.7springsfarm.com/products/kmag-or-sulpomag-granular-0-0-22-21s-11mg-50-lb-bag

 

[Susanmarie8]

Thank you, very much, Mervyn! I appreciate your help!

 

[Looking Glass]

I agree with the Langbeinite treatment.  I hit mine with this a lot along with straight Potash.  You can buy small bags on Amazon, though it’s more expensive.   Depends on how much you want to store.  It’s hard to tell as they likely cut off most of the diagnostic fronds, but magnesium and potassium deficiency go hand in hand with these.   

Magnesium deficiency doesn’t cause leaf tip necrosis, just distal yellowing.  When you see necrosis on old frond edges, it’s potassium.   

It’s strange you neighbors are doing well just a few feet away.  It looks like they are in more shade.   With heavy sun, these need more water and food.   Palmgain is a great fertilizer, though there are longer lasting ones that are great too.  

[Johnny Palmseed]

I would tell your lawn guy to stop taking it upon himself to trim your palms. That is not what he is contracted for. Although I would imagine that he is doing it because it helps him not have to duck under them while mowing. You can fertilize at any time but if it gets cold, the palm will not be able to do much with it. Have you considered a micronutrient foliage spray?

[Looking Glass]

Most of these lawn guys are pretty nice and not malicious or anything, but their expertise is as laborers, and not arborists or plant care experts.  Sometimes they think they are doing you a favor by hacking up your plants, like most of the other regular homeowner’s prefer.   When I had lawn guys here, to my surprise, they cut and shaped the hedges, trimmer palms, sprayed weeds way back in the garden beds….  And for next to nothing in cost, and did 8 adjacent properties here all at once.  They did a good job, moved fast, but didn’t know when to say when.  They couldn’t tell a young palm from a big weed, and hacked and trimmer and sprayed like Viking raiders plundering a village.  

[Susanmarie8]

1 hour ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

I would tell your lawn guy to stop taking it upon himself to trim your palms. That is not what he is contracted for. Although I would imagine that he is doing it because it helps him not have to duck under them while mowing. You can fertilize at any time but if it gets cold, the palm will not be able to do much with it. Have you considered a micronutrient foliage spray?

I don't know anything about micronutrient sprays.

[Susanmarie8]

33 minutes ago, Looking Glass said:

Most of these lawn guys are pretty nice and not malicious or anything, but their expertise is as laborers, and not arborists or plant care experts.  Sometimes they think they are doing you a favor by hacking up your plants, like most of the other regular homeowner’s prefer.   When I had lawn guys here, to my surprise, they cut and shaped the hedges, trimmer palms, sprayed weeds way back in the garden beds….  And for next to nothing in cost, and did 8 adjacent properties here all at once.  They did a good job, moved fast, but didn’t know when to say when.  They couldn’t tell a young palm from a big weed, and hacked and trimmer and sprayed like Viking raiders plundering a village.  

Yeah...this guy has caused other damage, too. 

The neighbors palm trees get a lot of shade, mine don't get any.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Susanmarie8

[Bill H2DB]

 

1.   What's with the brown grass around the Palms ?

2.  That raised up "container " around them is probably restricting the roots . They may be root bound to some extent .

Palms  send roots out laterally as well as downward .  Is that a galvanized metal band around them ?  A lot of Zinc in that . 

Note too that Roebellini's  are actually single trunked palms , so when planted as bunches , the roots sometimes restrict each other and often don't do well in the long run . But some do well .

  In this case the roots may well be restricted , adding to your problem .

 

[Susanmarie8]

2 hours ago, Susanmarie8 said:

Thank you, very much, Mervyn! I appreciate your help!

 

MERLYN. I typed Merlyn the first time. Names are important. Thank you, Merlyn.

[Susanmarie8]

29 minutes ago, Bill H2DB said:

 

1.   What's with the brown grass around the Palms ?

2.  That raised up "container " around them is probably restricting the roots . They may be root bound to some extent .

Palms  send roots out laterally as well as downward .  Is that a galvanized metal band around them ?  A lot of Zinc in that . 

Note too that Roebellini's  are actually single trunked palms , so when planted as bunches , the roots sometimes restrict each other and often don't do well in the long run . But some do well .

  In this case the roots may well be restricted , adding to your problem .

 

Hello!

1. The lawn guy is killing the grass there. He's weed wacking it there and cutting it back practically to the ground.  

2.  When I first posted here in May 2022 the consensus was that I needed to cover the roots that were coming up the base of the tree. If you click on my username I think you could probably see the original post.  That ring around the tree is new.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Susanmarie8

[Susanmarie8]

1 hour ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

I would tell your lawn guy to stop taking it upon himself to trim your palms. That is not what he is contracted for. Although I would imagine that he is doing it because it helps him not have to duck under them while mowing. You can fertilize at any time but if it gets cold, the palm will not be able to do much with it. Have you considered a micronutrient foliage spray?

I found a version of the Langbeinite Merlyn recommended that can be used as a spray.

 

https://www.7springsfarm.com/products/dte-solution-grade-langbeinite-0-0-21-5-5-lb?variant=41375590187213

[peachy]

All nurseries, garden centres etc sell sulphate of potash, dry or liquid. Personally I foliar feed my palms and get great results.  I use a liquid seaweed,  fish emulsion and potash in my mix. Twice a year I get a little bottle of trace elements to throw into my witch's brew as well.  Also I put pelletised chicken manure around the bases 3 times a year, as we get a very long growing season here.  All the aforementioned methods sound quite effective too but my way just means a one trip to a garden centre, a choice of brands and lots of labels to look at.

Peachy

[Susanmarie8]

4 hours ago, peachy said:

All nurseries, garden centres etc sell sulphate of potash, dry or liquid. Personally I foliar feed my palms and get great results.  I use a liquid seaweed,  fish emulsion and potash in my mix. Twice a year I get a little bottle of trace elements to throw into my witch's brew as well.  Also I put pelletised chicken manure around the bases 3 times a year, as we get a very long growing season here.  All the aforementioned methods sound quite effective too but my way just means a one trip to a garden centre, a choice of brands and lots of labels to look at.

Peachy

Thank you, Peachy!

 

[Merlyn]

21 hours ago, Susanmarie8 said:

MERLYN. I typed Merlyn the first time. Names are important. Thank you, Merlyn.

  I'm glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I read it the first time.  I probably would have snarfed it through my nose! 

When you filled in the planter, what did you use?  Roebellini like a lot of water, but they do also like it to drain out and wouldn't want to be in stagnant muck.  I would probably have filled it with a loose palm potting mix.  My current mix is about 30-50% organics (I'm trying out Kellogg Raised Bed mix) plus perlite or Turface MVP (from Ewing Irrigation) and maybe some small pine bark nuggets and/or some cypress mulch.  Aeration and drainage is important.  If it's way too dense it *could* cause root rot, which *could* cause the visible symptoms you are seeing.

[Susanmarie8]

On 11/7/2023 at 2:59 PM, Merlyn said:

  I'm glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I read it the first time.  I probably would have snarfed it through my nose! 

When you filled in the planter, what did you use?  Roebellini like a lot of water, but they do also like it to drain out and wouldn't want to be in stagnant muck.  I would probably have filled it with a loose palm potting mix.  My current mix is about 30-50% organics (I'm trying out Kellogg Raised Bed mix) plus perlite or Turface MVP (from Ewing Irrigation) and maybe some small pine bark nuggets and/or some cypress mulch.  Aeration and drainage is important.  If it's way too dense it *could* cause root rot, which *could* cause the visible symptoms you are seeing.

I used about a 50/50 mix of soil  for palm trees and litter made 100% from coconut shell.  It's  definitely  not dense. 

[Susanmarie8]

Hello! Thanking everyone who took their time to help and give advice. 

It seemed the moment the lawn guy took the lower fronds the good fronds began curling and dying. But....

As you recommended I applied Down to Earth OMRI Organic Solution Grade Langbeinite 0-0-21.5. I bought the kind that suspends in water and applied to the entire root area and sprayed the remaining fronds. I guess we got to it quick enough because the curls and brown spots disappeared!  I see nothing but green fronds.

I'm open to more advice about when I should apply more. 

Thanks again!  Thank you for caring about other people's palm trees!

[Merlyn]

Good to hear it responded quickly!  Normally the rule of thumb is nothing ever turns back green, so this is pretty surprising!  Maybe that's because you noticed it so quickly that the leaf cells hadn't quite died yet...and were just suffering.  I think Magnesium and Potassium are fairly mobile in plant tissue (I know Manganese is not) so when given a big dose the plant stopped stealing it from the older fronds.  And the foliar application went straight into the dying cells.  That's only a SWAG on my part. 

As far as reapplication goes, I have only used Langbeinite as a soil dose coming out of winter.  Some palms show Magnesium/Potassium spotting and yellowed tips after cold fronts.  Now that I know which ones tend to do that, I'll sprinkle a couple of handfuls under each of those palms going into winter.  Pygmy dates are one of those that yellow/spot after winter.  My Langbeinite is in coarse chunk form (maybe 1/16" diameter) and probably dissolves a lot slower than your powder.  I'd guess another similar dose in late December is a good idea...also another SWAG on my part. 

 

[Susanmarie8]

1 hour ago, Merlyn said:

Good to hear it responded quickly!  Normally the rule of thumb is nothing ever turns back green, so this is pretty surprising!  Maybe that's because you noticed it so quickly that the leaf cells hadn't quite died yet...and were just suffering.  I think Magnesium and Potassium are fairly mobile in plant tissue (I know Manganese is not) so when given a big dose the plant stopped stealing it from the older fronds.  And the foliar application went straight into the dying cells.  That's only a SWAG on my part. 

As far as reapplication goes, I have only used Langbeinite as a soil dose coming out of winter.  Some palms show Magnesium/Potassium spotting and yellowed tips after cold fronts.  Now that I know which ones tend to do that, I'll sprinkle a couple of handfuls under each of those palms going into winter.  Pygmy dates are one of those that yellow/spot after winter.  My Langbeinite is in coarse chunk form (maybe 1/16" diameter) and probably dissolves a lot slower than your powder.  I'd guess another similar dose in late December is a good idea...also another SWAG on my part. 

 

Yes, I wrote to you guys here the day he cut the fronds off, so I got to it fast.  I also did more than just spray the solution onto the fronds. I raised the bucket to the leaflets and dunked as many as I could into the solution. I was determined to fix this!

[Looking Glass]

The granular Langbeinite I get from Amazon and other places is like a very course, grainy, sugar consistency.   Gives you a continuous feed for at least a couple months.  Might want to hit with that and keep watering them well, now that you’ve given them a quick shot of nutrition.   That would give them consistent access to K for a while.  

[NickJames]

Question; the ratio in langbeinite of magnesium to potassium is 1:2 right? Is that too high or is it okay?

[Looking Glass]

1 hour ago, NickJames said:

Question; the ratio in langbeinite of magnesium to potassium is 1:2 right? Is that too high or is it okay?

1:4 is considered ideal for general use on palms in Florida, but this stuff seems to work out great, especially for palms like Phoenix-genus palms, that run into deficiencies of both elements.    

[NickJames]

5 minutes ago, Looking Glass said:

1:4 is considered ideal for general use on palms in Florida, but this stuff seems to work out great, especially for palms like Phoenix-genus palms, that run into deficiencies of both elements.    

So it wouldn’t worsen a potassium deficiency per se, it would just cause a slower rate of potassium increase then? My irrigation water has magnesium in it as most Florida municipal water that’s not ROed does, but since I’m sand I guess I would say I am generally in need of both. 

[Looking Glass]

21 minutes ago, NickJames said:

So it wouldn’t worsen a potassium deficiency per se, it would just cause a slower rate of potassium increase then? My irrigation water has magnesium in it as most Florida municipal water that’s not ROed does, but since I’m sand I guess I would say I am generally in need of both. 

Most in Florida follow the University of Florida recommendations in regards to general palm fertilization (4K:1Mg), with perhaps a tweak in the nitrogen here or there, for routine maintenance.  The Palm Beach Palm and Cycad Society had a great article with nutrient deficiency symptoms and specific treatments with dosing, but it has since been taken down.   It recommended either two separate components calculated at 4:1 for deficiencies, or just using plain Langbeinite by itself.   

Just using the 2:1 doesn’t seem to have any detrimental effects for me, and I dose most plants pretty liberally with it.   In the worst cases, or with very potassium thirsty palms, I’ll also just use straight 0-0-60 Potash.  Everything seems to wash out of our sand very quickly either way.