2023 USDA Plant Hardiness Zone Maps Out

November 19, 2023

19 hours ago, Swolte said:

College Station TX now being 9a, however, I note that only winters up to 2020 were taken into account. The subsequent winters (either in absolute lows or early polar vortexes) were devastating to 8b-listed plants and obliterated any 9a plants.

Moving forward, for the vast majority of plants I'll be spending money on, I will be aiming for z8a or lower.

Sabal paradise!

I'll take the Outer Banks over College Station for 9a. The water definitely helps out the situation. It's quite an advantage.

November 19, 2023

14 hours ago, Allen said:

Charleston, SC 95% above 11F based on data from 1950-2023

I like those odds.

November 19, 2023

Climate zones are transitional and shift over any given increment of time. Mapping such locations down to small areas such as one square mile changes is difficult to impossible using models based on weather data which become less accurate the smaller the area becomes.

A more accurate "Climate Map" would use the plants that are growing in the actual location, not weather or models. For example, certain plants such as a Persian Lime Tree does not tolerate sub freezing conditions for more than just a couple hours. Locations where the Lime can grow and keep its leaves from year to year as compared to nearby areas where the Lime looses its leaves, is a much better method of demarcating one zone from the other. This method is better suited for small areas and actually used by local informed gardeners with years of experience.

Conclusion: Use the USDA zone map for general large areas, but use local people with years of experience for small areas.

November 19, 2023

22 hours ago, Swolte said:

College Station TX now being 9a, however, I note that only winters up to 2020 were taken into account. The subsequent winters (either in absolute lows or early polar vortexes) were devastating to 8b-listed plants and obliterated any 9a plants.

Moving forward, for the vast majority of plants I'll be spending money on, I will be aiming for z8a or lower.

Sabal paradise!

Same here. My area of Oklahoma has been bumped up from 7a to 7b, but we have gone below 0F in four of the last six winters. I have lost trachycarpus, some young needles, and even a birmingham sabal. Even the trachycarpus I have protected well enough to survive, have basically not grown in the last three years due to the consistent and large winter set backs.

I certainly won't be gardening as if we will only see 7b lows.

November 19, 2023

Climate zones are transitional and shift over any given increment of time. Mapping such locations down to small areas such as one square mile changes is difficult to impossible using models based on weather data which become less accurate the smaller the area becomes.

A more accurate "Climate Map" would use the plants that are growing in the actual location, not weather or models. For example, certain plants such as a Persian Lime Tree does not tolerate sub freezing conditions for more than just a couple hours. Locations where the Lime can grow and keep its leaves from year to year as compared to nearby areas where the Lime looses its leaves, is a much better method of demarcating one zone from the other. This method is better suited for small areas and actually used by local informed gardeners with years of experience.

Conclusion: Use the USDA zone map for general large areas, but use local people with years of experience for small areas.

November 19, 2023

Knowledge of local people who have lived and tendered plants for many years is the best source of information on climate when assessing in one location.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Banana Belt

November 19, 2023

6 minutes ago, Banana Belt said:

Climate zones are transitional and shift over any given increment of time. Mapping such locations down to small areas such as one square mile changes is difficult to impossible using models based on weather data which become less accurate the smaller the area becomes.

A more accurate "Climate Map" would use the plants that are growing in the actual location, not weather or models. For example, certain plants such as a Persian Lime Tree does not tolerate sub freezing conditions for more than just a couple hours. Locations where the Lime can grow and keep its leaves from year to year as compared to nearby areas where the Lime looses its leaves, is a much better method of demarcating one zone from the other. This method is better suited for small areas and actually used by local informed gardeners with years of experience.

Conclusion: Use the USDA zone map for general large areas, but use local people with years of experience for small areas.

I agree.

November 19, 2023

17 hours ago, MAPalms said:

My little corner of MA has gone up quite a bit. Interesting to see 7b on Cape Cod….. wasn’t expecting that. I guess it could make sense for Nantucket though. I’m still technically 6b, but 7a is 5 miles from me. 35 miles from 7b.

Nantucket is zone 8a, but last winter Feb 2023 it tied it's all time low of -3 F, for the third time, but in February. Oddly the previous -3 readings came in January (16th, 2004), and in December, despite being an oceanic climate that should be colder later in winter than earlier. The December -3 is a stronger record given the ocean is still above 41 F (5 C) then. To be fair, it was literally Decmeber 31st (1962), so new year's (January) eve. Meanwhile, Boston had it's first -10 F in decades during the same event.

14 hours ago, Nomad NYC said:

Oh goody...According to the new USDA map, my part of NYC has changed from 7B to.....7B.

Philly and small parts of the NYC metro area are within a degree F of being zone 8, like Nantucket.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Aceraceae

November 19, 2023

2 hours ago, Banana Belt said:

Climate zones are transitional and shift over any given increment of time. Mapping such locations down to small areas such as one square mile changes is difficult to impossible using models based on weather data which become less accurate the smaller the area becomes.

A more accurate "Climate Map" would use the plants that are growing in the actual location, not weather or models. For example, certain plants such as a Persian Lime Tree does not tolerate sub freezing conditions for more than just a couple hours. Locations where the Lime can grow and keep its leaves from year to year as compared to nearby areas where the Lime looses its leaves, is a much better method of demarcating one zone from the other. This method is better suited for small areas and actually used by local informed gardeners with years of experience.

Conclusion: Use the USDA zone map for general large areas, but use local people with years of experience for small areas.

1 hour ago, Banana Belt said:

Knowledge of local people who have lived and tendered plants for many years is the best source of information on climate when assessing in one location.

Agree that -overall,- climate zones are transitional, and that they aren't the " only " thing someone should consider. As it concerns mapping smaller scale areas, while far from perfect, technology to tease out such finer scale detail is becoming better / more reliable, and will only continue to get better. All that said, it too will never be perfect ..wayyy too many variables.

The given " Persian Lime example " is good ..but not perfect.. In San Jose, they can stay evergreen a majority of winters, but loose some ..or a good deal of their foliage in a not so ideal winter ..but, they recover -nicely- as soon as it is warm again ...unless something else takes them out.

Here, they can stay green all year ..but be killed by ....Not the cold, but, ..by the heat.. So, should folks here not grow them? Even though they'll sail through 99% of winters? What does that say about our zone ..or others where heat stress can be a big factor in killing stuff?

As far as " expert advise " whose is trustworthy? ..the nursery guy with 40+ years of experience, who warns a client in foreboding tone they assume didn't already do their homework against planting something because, in their ( foreboding ) opinion, he or she thinks the plant will be killed by the first breath of frosty air? ..or climate zone- based data that shows otherwise? ..and has proven itself far more accurate that the old timer nursery dude playing it wayy too safe, who isn't as much of an " expert " as assumed?

Similar example here.. There's a long time nursery owner whose advise on things i have a decent amount of respect for on many things. That said, they won't ( ..or is what i've been told ) bring in Royal Poinciana because ..in their thoughts ..they will freeze here.. Yet, there are 3 good sized specimens just in my own neighborhood that are almost a decade old, possibly a little older.. ..let alone numerous others planted around the valley.

A few of the oldest around the valley surviving the last big freeze here..

There are " experienced " orchid growers who'd tell someone in San Diego that " Nope, you can't grow Stanhopea Orchids outdoors there " even though there are other " experts " who have been growing some sps outdoors there for years..

Same " expert " advise on growing some Cattleya types / genera or, various Dendrobium outdoors in San Jose... yet, my grandparents and one of my aunties there were growing both, outdoors -though under a patio ( done their homework ) since ..the mid- 70s? ..from what i've seen in pictures anyway?? ..

So, who is the " expert, " ..whose advise is " worthy "? ..the " Always playin' it safe person? ..or another who constantly pushes the envelope -within reason- ( ..and / or maybe just beyond " reason " )?

..That brings up a few other points some seem to be missing..

For one, as mentioned above, a lot of die hard concentration by some on just what the big bad cold monster could do, ...is forgetting a major hot, shiny thing in the room.. Heat Kills ..almost as much as cold can..

As the zones shift warmer, plants that are more sensitive to it, will be less able to " face the heat " ...and longer bouts of it / longer dry spells, that are also ...HOT ....etc " adverse " ...but not cold- related aspects of warmer- shifting zones now ..and in the future..

More heat ..and drought - induced stress, makes for a stressed out plant going into a winter that might add to that stress ..either during a freak cold spell, or, because it simply doesn't get cool enough for the particular plant's liking.. strung together? = probably a not so niice outcome ..for the plant.. You, the plant girl ( or guy ) can choose whether or not to plant the same ..not as happy w/ the warmer growing conditions now plant, ..or something new, ..that may fit the bill perfectly..

Regardless, ...i'll say this:

Those who want to play it safe? ..enjoy ..playing it safe / boxing one's self in / constantly stressing over " what - if- itis ".. and whatever. Hopefully some day ( soon ) you'll escape the box and be ok with pushing boundries a bit more...

Those who aren't? ..so worried about constantly playing it safe?? ..wanting to be more ..adventurous... / open to the possibilities / new possibilities?   This " expert " will tell you ....Go for it!

...AFTER you have done your homework / lots of detailed research / whatever you want to call it   ..and fully accept that ..while yes, you've shifted up a zone / half zone ..whatever, the boldest of plants you've decided to trial you're ...trialing... might get knocked back ..or knocked out completely.. if...... there is a bad year ...and not necessarily by the cold either..

I'd never tell someone yes, yes guy ( or girl ) go plant a Queen, or Floss Silk Tree, outdoors, in zone 6 / ..Plant a Carpoxylon or Howea in our .. nuke you to a prune hot summer straddlin' zone 10.. or plant a Redwood where it is too hot and dry for one, even though you're in the same zone it grows in ...That's pushin it jusst a little more than even i'd be comfortable with advising someone else on..

You can still do either of those things if you yourself wish ..and maybe end up surprising me ..and everyone else perhaps? of course, but, lol ..that's really being a touch too optimistic / ...essentially walking one heck of a sharp, thin edge, with bare, oiled feet, after a rainstorm ..and i'd tell ya' that..

Itchin' to push some reasonably adaptable stuff a half, full, or zone n' a half warmer?   Go, ...give it a shot. Ask some questions if you want, but do what you want. Don't let anyone else sway you from such a learning experience.. That isn't being overly optimistic. ..Just keep it real, with the " real " possibilities you might experience along the way.

Within that " reasonable " zone of thought?, ..well, that's how pretty much every interesting plant you see, inc some native stuff, in various areas at least, was introduced into gardens in the first place ....By those not afraid of some ultra cold low that occurred on one day / couple days, one winter 35, 45, 79, 179 years ago..   Die hard dwelling / obsessing on on those " what if's ". isn't going to get you anywhere.

70 years from now, when some place that is now ..say zone 7b, is 9a and most folks in that spot are growing 9a/b plants in their yards ..When talking to a neighbor about their " tender " plants, the die hard what if-ers going to wag their finger, rambling on about tales from a time, that one time ..240 years ago it got down to ..a 5a low? How about 150 years from now?

Anything can kill a plant, at any time, as it is growing, ...and not just the cold, ... or heat,.. or, ...whatever.. Is, what it is.. Nothing is predictable in an unpredictable world.

November 19, 2023

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

" expert advise "

Wise comments, all of it and I agree. There is a saying I have not heard in some time which is anyone who claims to be "and expert" on anything automatically becomes and Ex Spurt. It is fun and enjoyable trying to grow and be rewarded with any plant anywhere. We learn by failures but are rewared with successes.

I have a 45 year old Satsuma Mandarin tree that produces better and larger fruit every winter. Yes it struggled during the firrst ten years of its life, but I babied it and kept it safe all those cold winters. It has on occasion lost all it leaves, but it survived and came back and is probably the oldest and largest outdooor Satsuma in the Pacific Northwest and probably south for a hundred miles or more into California.

November 19, 2023

On 11/16/2023 at 3:45 PM, MarcusH said:

Check your record lows for the last 3 to 5 decades . If it gets below 20°F don't even bother planting Queens unless you don't mind worrying about it every winter. The new map doesn't change anything it just makes people here think they can try new palms.

My Queens have been living on borrowed time since they were planted in 2019. Protection was only necessary last winter, which dropped me down to 19F. Defoliated both Queens, which are both trunking now. Both recovered quickly, and now look pretty decent heading into this upcoming winter.

Im not gonna change anything based off the new zone map. My foxtail is going into its third winter in the ground now. I have to protect is a lot throughout the winter, but that doesnt bother me. Having a foxtail in z8b sounds crazier than z9a, so ill take it in regards to sounding slightly less crazy lol

November 19, 2023

4 hours ago, Aceraceae said:

Nantucket is zone 8a, but last winter Feb 2023 it tied it's all time low of -3 F, for the third time, but in February. Oddly the previous -3 readings came in January (16th, 2004), and in December, despite being an oceanic climate that should be colder later in winter than earlier. The December -3 is a stronger record given the ocean is still above 41 F (5 C) then. To be fair, it was literally Decmeber 31st (1962), so new year's (January) eve. Meanwhile, Boston had it's first -10 F in decades during the same event

I remember that. Last winter was pretty mild before that cold snap. How do you find record lows each year like that?

6 hours ago, Banana Belt said:

A more accurate "Climate Map" would use the plants that are growing in the actual location, not weather or models

I agree with that. Even though it got very cold, the cannas, magnolias, and bamboo in my town survived. A favorable microclimate can be just enough to help a plant get over those rare out of zone cold snaps. Took this screenshot that one really cold night.

Edited November 19, 2023 by MAPalms

November 19, 2023

1 hour ago, Banana Belt said:

Wise comments, all of it and I agree. There is a saying I have not heard in some time which is anyone who claims to be "and expert" on anything automatically becomes and Ex Spurt. It is fun and enjoyable trying to grow and be rewarded with any plant anywhere. We learn by failures but are rewared with successes.

I have a 45 year old Satsuma Mandarin tree that produces better and larger fruit every winter. Yes it struggled during the firrst ten years of its life, but I babied it and kept it safe all those cold winters. It has on occasion lost all it leaves, but it survived and came back and is probably the oldest and largest outdooor Satsuma in the Pacific Northwest and probably south for a hundred miles or more into California.

That's pretty nice.. How are the fruit? ..Curious if the climate up there has any noticeable effect on the taste or texture, compared to those grown in CA ..or even here..

Here's a 2022 look at a small landscape jaab' i did at a house my mom was renting in San Jose before we moved to FL. as one of my " ..more established " examples of " thinking forward "

99% of the plants i chose were " trials " ..Two, the Magenta " H "'s, = Handroanthus impetiginosus = Pink Trumpet tree ..These were the plants i mentioned that the " expert " nursery guy warned me about as i was special ordering them..

Now, as you can see, ..one does look much nicer than it's " twin ". Reason for that is ..when i installed the first one, i watered for about a year to " Send the little guy on it's way " My mom's neighbor didn't really pay all that much attention to the Trumpet Tree in his yard ( on the Left ) ..so, it is playing catch up, even after ..almost a decade in the ground.. Both flower each year. Bigger one has produced seed since about 2016 or 18.

Since we left, i doubt anyone waters, so, everything out there is living off what nature provides ..plus maybe a little that runs off the lawns ..if they're even still there. It will be interesting to see how the smaller Trumpet Tree looks after last years soaker out there ( Hopefully it had a good growth spurt, lol ) ..

Other plants in that " Hell Strip " include:

**Blue Arrow = Leucophyllum zygo. " Cimarron "

**Yellow X ..and the X w/ a ? next to it = Senna artemisioides, an Australian Senna sp.

**Red ovals = Baja Fairyduster, Calliandra californica. One, larger than this one at my grandparents a couple miles south of this location. Think i planted hers in 2008 after coming across some in a nursery.

Magenta " S " = Hot Lips Salvia

Blue ?' marks = A couple specific Pacific Coast Iris selections, one i wish i could get some offsets from.

Can't remember what the big, green thing was mixed in among the other stuff i put in that bed ..Possibly a dwarf Natal Plum, since i'd found specimens doing well nearby ( Another plant you don't see planted much up there )

** = Made a trip here to AZ to pick these up since no one in San Jose sold them ..Because " it's too cold / wet " for them to live there ..or so was some of the excuses i'd hear..

As you can see, everything has done fine since planting in ..2012. A bit cramped?, yes.. but that's how it goes when i'm not there to clean up stuff, haha...

Note too the Pygmy Dates in the background ( Yellow dots ) ..Planted those as well.. Some cast iron plant / Justicia carnea planted as well near the Pygmys on either side of that house.. In past street views where i could see those beds, it appeared those plants were still there.

Only thing missing is a Flame Vine, Pyrostegia venusta ( hard to see Orange F ) that was growing behind the over trimmed Pygmy on the right. Was there until about ..2018 or 19. Yet another plant some nursery people said would get knocked out as soon as it experienced a good frost. Wrong again..

Hard to see, but, in the neighbor's yard, i planted a section of a hardy Heliconia i had. Appears to still be there ( Magenta dot behind the Pygmy to the right of the black truck ) Was some Tiger Grass planted along their walkway too, but they may have removed it. Was there until ..one of the more recent updates.

camden.jpg.1cffbc34b8810d7c5f488a6b7466b58f.jpg

Anyway, this is what forward thinking can look like, rather than listening to... / obsessing over the " what ifs ".

If i were still out there, i'd be trialing a few, carefully selected Plumeria cultivars ( an 11footer was observed in my old neighborhood recently. Apparently was originally noted back in 2020 ) ..and even ..gasp, Royal Poinciana, Cassia fistula and bakeriana, Tamarind, and Covillea racemosa.. I'll bet all will survive in the warmer parts of the home town. The lone Royal Palm, in my old "hood, has.

November 19, 2023

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

How are the fruit

This winter is a La Nina so the fruit should be really good. La Nina winters the fruit is not as sweet as in warmer winter climates. But overall the fruit are very juicy, spritely and have a much richer flavor than those in California, although not as sweet. Nice part is that the Satsuma ripen in January to February right after Feijoa have just finished. Months of March and April in our area has a lack of ripening fruit, so we wait for May to bring in the early berries. So in our area we can grow many kinds of fruit with something always ripe to pick 10 out of 12 months.

November 20, 2023

Anyone down south of oklahoma, I wish you luck.. 10 percent tornado chance... 30 percent wind chance 15 percent hail chance... no worries about those palms, they've handled stronger winds!

November 21, 2023

Yup, Moved up from Sothern California 9b to 10a...... However, I don't plan on changing anything with the way I plant. But If it ends up that some of my risker/ zone pushing palms do better than I was planning I'm ok with that.

November 22, 2023

On 11/19/2023 at 4:37 AM, RFun said:

I like those odds.

It my understanding that the method used to compute the USDA zone placement for a location is 1) average the lowest location temperature for each year in a 30 year period, 2) compute the standard deviation, 3) subtract one standard deviation from the average low temperature which is the "zone temperature" which then is placed in a USDA zone range. Am I correct?

November 22, 2023

On 11/21/2023 at 10:02 AM, IBGraham said:

Yup, Moved up from Sothern California 9b to 10a...... However, I don't plan on changing anything with the way I plant. But If it ends up that some of my risker/ zone pushing palms do better than I was planning I'm ok with that.

Things like that happen here naturally without an agency telling me. Some years I'm 8a and others 8b.

November 23, 2023

On 11/22/2023 at 9:24 AM, WisTex said:

It my understanding that the method used to compute the USDA zone placement for a location is 1) average the lowest location temperature for each year in a 30 year period, 2) compute the standard deviation, 3) subtract one standard deviation from the average low temperature which is the "zone temperature" which then is placed in a USDA zone range. Am I correct?

It's just a straight average as far as I know.

November 23, 2023

19 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Things like that happen here naturally without an agency telling me. Some years I'm 8a and others 8b.

Lol exactly

November 23, 2023

From everything that I can find on the web it does appears the USDA Hardiness Zone Chart is just a simple average of a 30 yrs period. I thought I read somewhere it included a minus one sigma (standard deviation) calculation. Apparently not. Hard to believe that the government would not consider variability in their hardiness zone chart - but then again, it is the government. Sorta of like going wading in a lake with an average depth of 1 foot and ending up with water over your head.

Edited November 23, 2023 by WisTex

November 23, 2023

So, I've been creating a spreadsheet to populate with all the data I could find on the NWS website for San Antonio. I added columns to show each year what the planting zone was. It's fairly consistent how the low temperatures have fluctuated up and down since 1886 - when the first records began to be recorded in the city.

The discussion on this thread has pointed out how the current range being used (1990-2020) to create the latest iteration does not include the recent cold spells of the last 2 out of 3 years in Texas. It got me to thinking, what if we analyzed the data by decade to see what the zones were for each decade. This shows how variable the absolute minimums affected the averages going all the way back to the late 1800's. The recent warming trend of just those data is not without precedent in that time period. Please see the graphs below for details.

Hopefully others will consider how climate change may be altering your averages upwards in a more long term trend as compared to what I see in my part of Texas. I imagine areas in parts of the Southwest and possibly the Southeast and East Coast may see better trends as there is more to block the southward bound polar vortexes than a few barb-wired fences. 😉

I've attached the spreadsheet in case anyone wants to use it as a template or if others interested in San Antonio weather records.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

image.png.555ddb566091ad55cbcf0cac4d5898e2.png

El Nino Years Average: 22.15 9A

La Nina Years Average: 19.33 8B

ENSO Neutral Years Average: 20.90 9A (barely)

YEAR	ENSO	JAN	FEB	MAR	APR	MAY	JUN	JUL	AUG	SEP	OCT	NOV	DEC	ANNUAL	ZONE
FILTERED AVG		23.72	27.10	33.16	42.04	52.89	63.34	68.82	68.01	57.01	43.48	32.43	26.60	20.47	9A
1886	N/A	6	25	35	35	54	63	66	70	54	43	22	17	6	7B
1887	N/A	17	28	39	37	47	64	68	67	50	44	28	22	17	8B
1888	N/A	11	38	37	50	54	61	64	69	58	40	34	35	11	8B
1889	N/A	28	33	40	49	46	58	68	67	52	42	31	35	28	9B
1890	N/A	25	24	21	42	55	58	69	68	46	46	37	28	21	9A
1891	N/A	25	27	29	39	47	62	69	57	57	45	32	26	25	9B
1892	N/A	19	43	23	43	50	54	66	68	55	41	32	22	19	8B
1893	N/A	26	26	35	46	52	65	72	59	61	45	33	29	26	9B
1894	N/A	16	25	32	48	53	62	67	63	61	39	33	20	16	8B
1895	N/A	25	11	33	47	49	61	70	69	56	49	32	26	11	8A
1896	NEUTRAL	27	33	35	44	61	62	68	67	47	50	32	30	27	9B
1897	EL NINO	18	29	38	45	56	61	68	66	54	46	38	29	18	8B
1898	NEUTRAL	27	33	33	41	50	64	66	68	62	37	30	20	20	9A
1899	NEUTRAL	20	4	32	38	62	64	66	71	56	46	34	30	4	7A
1900	EL NINO	22	19	32	36	56	67	69	69	68	46	30	34	19	8B
1901	NEUTRAL	26	27	31	42	52	62	70	71	54	45	39	15	15	8B
1902	NEUTRAL	26	31	37	46	53	68	69	72	55	51	36	33	26	9B
1903	EL NINO	27	19	35	44	44	54	65	69	50	40	31	33	19	8B
1904	LA NINA	22	30	35	42	52	63	67	66	65	46	29	26	22	9A
1905	NEUTRAL	24	13	45	43	57	66	60	67	63	45	40	29	13	8A
1906	EL NINO	24	28	29	51	54	66	69	62	61	43	26	33	24	9A
1907	NEUTRAL	30	28	42	45	45	57	66	68	58	53	29	35	28	9B
1908	NEUTRAL	22	27	43	40	46	69	68	68	47	38	32	33	22	9A
1909	LA NINA	20	21	38	42	47	63	70	70	51	43	39	24	20	9A
1910	LA NINA	23	19	43	46	55	59	68	72	66	36	39	33	19	8B
1911	LA NINA	16	29	39	49	54	68	64	67	68	40	23	30	16	8B
1912	NEUTRAL	18	18	35	42	55	59	70	70	57	51	30	31	18	8B
1913	NEUTRAL	20	30	31	41	56	64	71	67	53	36	43	32	20	9A
1914	NEUTRAL	31	23	34	35	57	70	71	68	57	45	38	26	23	9A
1915	EL NINO	27	37	29	39	56	62	67	58	61	49	33	30	27	9B
1916	NEUTRAL	22	25	40	39	52	63	70	69	52	42	28	22	22	9A
1917	LA NINA	27	19	29	44	45	62	68	69	55	32	41	19	19	8B
1918	LA NINA	12	23	41	47	55	67	68	69	53	42	30	30	12	8A
1919	EL NINO	24	32	36	45	57	48	68	70	61	53	33	25	24	9A
1920	NEUTRAL	30	34	29	37	59	63	71	69	53	44	27	27	27	9B
1921	NEUTRAL	34	31	41	40	54	65	70	70	64	48	38	30	30	10A
1922	NEUTRAL	29	27	22	50	57	62	69	69	62	50	41	31	22	9A
1923	NEUTRAL	38	24	28	47	58	68	65	69	62	44	36	32	24	9A
1924	NEUTRAL	24	32	30	39	53	63	64	73	52	45	36	21	21	9A
1925	LA NINA	25	36	42	47	46	68	70	63	61	36	35	19	19	8B
1926	EL NINO	26	38	36	42	52	62	68	64	55	51	36	28	26	9B
1927	NEUTRAL	27	31	31	45	56	63	71	69	61	51	39	26	26	9B
1928	NEUTRAL	17	33	33	37	54	60	71	68	58	49	38	31	17	8B
1929	NEUTRAL	28	22	38	56	48	70	68	70	61	47	31	21	21	9A
1930	NEUTRAL	11	37	33	50	58	60	69	70	58	47	38	29	11	8A
1931	EL NINO	30	40	32	42	52	63	71	68	65	51	42	34	30	10A
1932	NEUTRAL	33	38	24	50	58	61	70	68	62	42	28	24	24	9A
1933	NEUTRAL	30	12	40	41	53	62	70	68	72	59	46	35	12	7A
1934	LA NINA	32	29	31	54	58	67	69	71	60	57	38	33	29	9B
1935	NEUTRAL	18	28	42	48	47	66	70	68	54	47	34	29	18	8B
1936	NEUTRAL	25	19	45	38	58	65	69	69	53	42	31	34	19	8B
1937	NEUTRAL	26	29	32	42	57	63	67	70	62	48	27	29	26	9B
1938	NEUTRAL	27	28	43	36	53	68	73	70	59	41	29	29	27	9B
1939	LA NINA	35	30	42	37	61	68	70	67	59	44	39	32	30	10A
1940	NEUTRAL	15	33	37	35	56	60	66	64	53	46	29	34	15	8B
1941	EL NINO	27	30	33	46	57	65	68	69	66	46	31	31	27	9B
1942	EL NINO	23	30	33	44	54	64	65	66	41	48	32	26	23	9A
1943	LA NINA	17	30	21	50	55	65	68	67	54	40	32	22	17	8B
1944	NEUTRAL	20	26	29	38	45	64	67	64	59	43	30	28	20	9A
1945	NEUTRAL	30	32	40	34	48	64	70	69	52	36	30	26	26	9B
1946	NEUTRAL	26	28	34	45	55	58	67	63	64	41	39	26	26	9B
1947	NEUTRAL	19	25	26	37	52	65	66	69	51	51	30	26	19	8B
1948	NEUTRAL	19	23	21	43	52	61	69	66	51	44	25	28	19	8B
1949	NEUTRAL	0	28	36	39	58	61	68	65	58	41	36	25	0	7A
1950	LA NINA	30	31	32	45	61	65	68	66	62	50	25	14	14	8A
1951	LA NINA	18	6	27	36	50	64	71	69	56	50	27	20	6	7B
1952	NEUTRAL	31	30	28	42	46	62	69	66	58	39	32	26	26	9B
1953	NEUTRAL	27	32	38	42	46	62	71	70	57	49	34	23	23	9A
1954	NEUTRAL	27	29	30	45	44	63	69	71	57	40	34	28	27	9B
1955	LA NINA	28	22	29	48	61	58	70	71	65	38	26	26	22	9A
1956	LA NINA	27	25	28	38	56	68	69	65	59	47	31	32	25	9B
1957	NEUTRAL	23	40	35	40	52	60	69	69	55	34	30	18	18	8B
1958	EL NINO	28	22	33	47	53	69	68	65	61	46	32	26	22	9A
1959	NEUTRAL	20	32	31	36	61	67	67	69	57	44	23	29	20	9A
1960	NEUTRAL	23	21	31	40	48	67	71	69	57	44	34	27	21	9A
1961	NEUTRAL	28	30	37	35	52	63	70	62	57	46	39	27	27	9B
1962	LA NINA	10	32	28	39	52	63	73	68	58	46	38	28	10	8A
1963	NEUTRAL	15	25	32	48	56	68	69	71	57	52	34	24	15	8B
1964	NEUTRAL	15	28	33	39	48	53	68	70	60	38	33	24	15	8B
1965	NEUTRAL	25	25	23	44	49	64	65	64	54	40	30	30	23	9A
1966	EL NINO	16	23	24	34	56	61	67	61	55	34	26	19	16	8B
1967	NEUTRAL	21	23	29	49	46	64	62	62	47	39	31	26	21	9A
1968	NEUTRAL	24	25	29	41	50	60	65	63	52	41	30	24	24	9A
1969	NEUTRAL	19	33	32	48	48	60	70	67	58	45	26	26	19	8B
1970	NEUTRAL	15	25	33	36	46	56	70	67	57	33	25	29	15	8B
1971	LA NINA	25	23	25	35	48	69	70	67	54	52	37	30	23	9A
1972	NEUTRAL	17	20	33	37	58	59	65	69	56	46	27	19	17	8B
1973	EL NINO	18	21	38	35	48	59	71	65	58	47	30	17	17	8B
1974	LA NINA	25	22	35	37	57	58	68	64	48	40	30	28	22	9A
1975	NEUTRAL	15	25	31	33	56	55	68	67	47	42	25	27	15	8B
1976	LA NINA	17	29	34	41	47	60	68	66	55	35	21	26	17	8B
1977	NEUTRAL	20	28	30	41	59	61	71	70	65	38	28	20	20	9A
1978	EL NINO	22	23	27	43	46	67	70	70	58	42	37	18	18	8B
1979	NEUTRAL	15	29	36	46	48	59	71	70	57	42	25	28	15	8B
1980	EL NINO	26	26	19	33	55	67	71	68	67	33	28	27	19	8B
1981	NEUTRAL	30	17	38	45	47	67	68	67	46	38	31	20	17	8B
1982	NEUTRAL	13	21	27	45	47	64	70	69	51	37	32	27	13	8A
1983	EL NINO	27	32	34	33	49	58	70	70	46	43	33	9	9	7B
1984	NEUTRAL	18	27	31	40	43	57	67	68	51	47	29	26	18	8B
1985	NEUTRAL	16	14	38	41	56	58	64	68	47	47	42	23	14	8A
1986	NEUTRAL	28	27	32	53	52	66	68	64	69	46	33	32	27	9B
1987	EL NINO	23	32	31	31	58	64	70	70	55	48	31	27	23	9A
1988	EL NINO	23	22	28	37	54	59	67	71	58	50	32	31	22	9A
1989	LA NINA	28	21	26	45	60	61	67	64	50	36	35	6	6	7B
1990	NEUTRAL	30	32	36	40	54	67	64	70	58	41	34	16	16	8B
1991	NEUTRAL	30	29	38	42	52	66	71	69	52	39	27	29	27	9B
1992	EL NINO	29	33	39	46	49	61	71	61	53	49	24	33	24	9A
1993	NEUTRAL	28	33	27	43	48	65	75	72	51	27	23	24	23	9A
1994	NEUTRAL	21	20	30	40	51	68	67	70	52	45	39	31	20	9A
1995	EL NINO	28	33	31	41	57	58	67	70	51	41	31	25	25	9B
1996	NEUTRAL	18	19	25	35	54	62	70	68	50	36	30	18	18	8B
1997	NEUTRAL	24	32	38	39	51	59	70	66	58	37	33	22	22	9A
1998	EL NINO	32	35	32	40	58	64	73	69	70	45	45	23	23	9A
1999	LA NINA	23	29	32	37	53	69	69	71	49	41	31	25	23	9A
2000	LA NINA	23	32	34	39	59	65	69	70	48	40	33	28	23	9A
2001	NEUTRAL	26	31	34	47	54	67	68	69	50	40	30	30	26	9B
2002	NEUTRAL	22	17	19	49	49	66	71	71	58	48	35	31	17	8B
2003	EL NINO	25	27	30	37	61	63	68	68	57	45	29	27	25	9B
2004	NEUTRAL	29	29	44	40	49	66	67	63	64	49	35	24	24	9A
2005	NEUTRAL	29	35	33	38	49	65	71	68	67	37	31	27	27	9B
2006	NEUTRAL	32	23	32	49	54	65	70	71	57	43	35	29	23	9A
2007	EL NINO	29	24	30	35	61	66	68	71	64	42	32	28	24	9A
2008	LA NINA	26	28	32	42	56	71	68	71	58	39	33	30	26	9B
2009	NEUTRAL	28	30	34	37	56	63	72	71	57	41	38	23	23	9A
2010	EL NINO	16	29	35	42	50	67	73	66	52	38	28	27	16	8B
2011	LA NINA	27	19	33	40	47	68	75	73	59	40	31	27	19	8B
2012	LA NINA	30	32	37	50	58	66	72	71	59	41	38	27	27	9B
2013	NEUTRAL	29	31	33	41	42	65	65	71	57	46	33	29	29	9B
2014	NEUTRAL	22	29	27	39	47	67	72	70	63	51	31	31	22	9A
2015	NEUTRAL	28	32	31	49	54	65	70	71	65	52	33	34	28	9B
2016	EL NINO	30	30	36	42	53	64	73	71	59	46	34	25	25	9B
2017	NEUTRAL	19	37	45	45	50	68	72	65	57	36	36	28	19	8B
2018	NEUTRAL	21	30	45	41	56	73	71	69	64	45	23	33	21	9A
2019	NEUTRAL	29	32	28	37	57	65	64	76	70	34	32	27	27	9B
2020	NEUTRAL	34	29	47	45	57	63	73	69	51	40	34	28	28	9B
2021	LA NINA	29	9	38	47	59	66	71	71	56	46	38	34	9	7B
2022	LA NINA	26	21	26	44	59	69	74	74	60	46	38	16	16	8B
2023		31	31	40	50	58	64	74	72	69	42	M	M	31
Mean		24	27	33	42	53	63	69	68	57	43	32	27	20	8B/9A

San Antonio.xlsx

November 23, 2023

Here are lows and equivalent zones for North Padre island since 1948.

YR	LOW TEMP	Zone
1948	26	9b
1949	21	9a
1950	30	10a
1951	21	9a
1952	37	10b
1953	32	10a
1954	34	10a
1955	35	10b
1956	33	10a
1957	31	10a
1958	32	10a
1959	27	9a
1960	31	10a
1961	32	10a
1962	21	9a
1963	21	9a
1964	31	10a
1965	34	10a
1966	30	10a
1967	32	10a
1968	32	10a
1969	39	10b
1970	28	9b
1971	33	10a
1972	32	10a
1973	29	10a
1974	38	10b
1975	33	10a
1976	27	9b
1977	28	9b
1978	28	9b
1979	24	9a
1980	26	9b
1981	28	9b
1982	23	9a
1983	17	8b
1984	28	9b
1985	25	9b
1986	37	10b
1987	38	10b
1988	35	10b
1989	15	8b
1990	28	9b
1991	42	10b
1992	41	10b
1993	38	10b
1994	32	10a
1995	37	10b
1996	25	9b
1997	32	10a
1998	35	10b
1999	37	10b
2000	34	10a
2001	34	10a
2002	27	9b
2003	35	10b
2004	30	10a
2005	34	10a
2006	33	10a
2007	34	10a
2008	43	10b
2009	37	10b
2010	30	10a
2011	27	9b
2012	37	10b
2013	39	10b
2014	33	10a
2015	39	10b
2016	33	10a
2017	27	9b
2018	31	10a
2019	41	10b
2020	38	10b
2021	20	9a
2022	26	9b
2023	38	10b

Edited November 23, 2023 by WisTex

November 23, 2023

9 minutes ago, ChrisA said:

So, I've been creating a spreadsheet to populate with all the data I could find on the NWS website for San Antonio. I added columns to show each year what the planting zone was. It's fairly consistent how the low temperatures have fluctuated up and down since 1886 - when the first records began to be recorded in the city.

The discussion on this thread has pointed out how the current range being used (1990-2020) to create the latest iteration does not include the recent cold spells of the last 2 out of 3 years in Texas. It got me to thinking, what if we analyzed the data by decade to see what the zones were for each decade. This shows how variable the absolute minimums affected the averages going all the way back to the late 1800's. The recent warming trend of just those data is not without precedent in that time period. Please see the graphs below for details.

Hopefully others will consider how climate change may be altering your averages upwards in a more long term trend as compared to what I see in my part of Texas. I imagine areas in parts of the Southwest and possibly the Southeast and East Coast may see better trends as there is more to block the southward bound polar vortexes than a few barb-wired fences. 😉

I've attached the spreadsheet in case anyone wants to use it as a template or if others interested in San Antonio weather records.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

El Nino Years Average: 22.15 9A

La Nina Years Average: 19.33 8B

ENSO Neutral Years Average: 20.90 9A (barely)

YEAR ENSO JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC ANNUAL ZONE

FILTERED AVG 23.72 27.10 33.16 42.04 52.89 63.34 68.82 68.01 57.01 43.48 32.43 26.60 20.47 9A

1886 N/A 6 25 35 35 54 63 66 70 54 43 22 17 6 7B

1887 N/A 17 28 39 37 47 64 68 67 50 44 28 22 17 8B

1888 N/A 11 38 37 50 54 61 64 69 58 40 34 35 11 8B

1889 N/A 28 33 40 49 46 58 68 67 52 42 31 35 28 9B

1890 N/A 25 24 21 42 55 58 69 68 46 46 37 28 21 9A

1891 N/A 25 27 29 39 47 62 69 57 57 45 32 26 25 9B

1892 N/A 19 43 23 43 50 54 66 68 55 41 32 22 19 8B

1893 N/A 26 26 35 46 52 65 72 59 61 45 33 29 26 9B

1894 N/A 16 25 32 48 53 62 67 63 61 39 33 20 16 8B

1895 N/A 25 11 33 47 49 61 70 69 56 49 32 26 11 8A

1896 NEUTRAL 27 33 35 44 61 62 68 67 47 50 32 30 27 9B

1897 EL NINO 18 29 38 45 56 61 68 66 54 46 38 29 18 8B

1898 NEUTRAL 27 33 33 41 50 64 66 68 62 37 30 20 20 9A

1899 NEUTRAL 20 4 32 38 62 64 66 71 56 46 34 30 4 7A

1900 EL NINO 22 19 32 36 56 67 69 69 68 46 30 34 19 8B

1901 NEUTRAL 26 27 31 42 52 62 70 71 54 45 39 15 15 8B

1902 NEUTRAL 26 31 37 46 53 68 69 72 55 51 36 33 26 9B

1903 EL NINO 27 19 35 44 44 54 65 69 50 40 31 33 19 8B

1904 LA NINA 22 30 35 42 52 63 67 66 65 46 29 26 22 9A

1905 NEUTRAL 24 13 45 43 57 66 60 67 63 45 40 29 13 8A

1906 EL NINO 24 28 29 51 54 66 69 62 61 43 26 33 24 9A

1907 NEUTRAL 30 28 42 45 45 57 66 68 58 53 29 35 28 9B

1908 NEUTRAL 22 27 43 40 46 69 68 68 47 38 32 33 22 9A

1909 LA NINA 20 21 38 42 47 63 70 70 51 43 39 24 20 9A

1910 LA NINA 23 19 43 46 55 59 68 72 66 36 39 33 19 8B

1911 LA NINA 16 29 39 49 54 68 64 67 68 40 23 30 16 8B

1912 NEUTRAL 18 18 35 42 55 59 70 70 57 51 30 31 18 8B

1913 NEUTRAL 20 30 31 41 56 64 71 67 53 36 43 32 20 9A

1914 NEUTRAL 31 23 34 35 57 70 71 68 57 45 38 26 23 9A

1915 EL NINO 27 37 29 39 56 62 67 58 61 49 33 30 27 9B

1916 NEUTRAL 22 25 40 39 52 63 70 69 52 42 28 22 22 9A

1917 LA NINA 27 19 29 44 45 62 68 69 55 32 41 19 19 8B

1918 LA NINA 12 23 41 47 55 67 68 69 53 42 30 30 12 8A

1919 EL NINO 24 32 36 45 57 48 68 70 61 53 33 25 24 9A

1920 NEUTRAL 30 34 29 37 59 63 71 69 53 44 27 27 27 9B

1921 NEUTRAL 34 31 41 40 54 65 70 70 64 48 38 30 30 10A

1922 NEUTRAL 29 27 22 50 57 62 69 69 62 50 41 31 22 9A

1923 NEUTRAL 38 24 28 47 58 68 65 69 62 44 36 32 24 9A

1924 NEUTRAL 24 32 30 39 53 63 64 73 52 45 36 21 21 9A

1925 LA NINA 25 36 42 47 46 68 70 63 61 36 35 19 19 8B

1926 EL NINO 26 38 36 42 52 62 68 64 55 51 36 28 26 9B

1927 NEUTRAL 27 31 31 45 56 63 71 69 61 51 39 26 26 9B

1928 NEUTRAL 17 33 33 37 54 60 71 68 58 49 38 31 17 8B

1929 NEUTRAL 28 22 38 56 48 70 68 70 61 47 31 21 21 9A

1930 NEUTRAL 11 37 33 50 58 60 69 70 58 47 38 29 11 8A

1931 EL NINO 30 40 32 42 52 63 71 68 65 51 42 34 30 10A

1932 NEUTRAL 33 38 24 50 58 61 70 68 62 42 28 24 24 9A

1933 NEUTRAL 30 12 40 41 53 62 70 68 72 59 46 35 12 7A

1934 LA NINA 32 29 31 54 58 67 69 71 60 57 38 33 29 9B

1935 NEUTRAL 18 28 42 48 47 66 70 68 54 47 34 29 18 8B

1936 NEUTRAL 25 19 45 38 58 65 69 69 53 42 31 34 19 8B

1937 NEUTRAL 26 29 32 42 57 63 67 70 62 48 27 29 26 9B

1938 NEUTRAL 27 28 43 36 53 68 73 70 59 41 29 29 27 9B

1939 LA NINA 35 30 42 37 61 68 70 67 59 44 39 32 30 10A

1940 NEUTRAL 15 33 37 35 56 60 66 64 53 46 29 34 15 8B

1941 EL NINO 27 30 33 46 57 65 68 69 66 46 31 31 27 9B

1942 EL NINO 23 30 33 44 54 64 65 66 41 48 32 26 23 9A

1943 LA NINA 17 30 21 50 55 65 68 67 54 40 32 22 17 8B

1944 NEUTRAL 20 26 29 38 45 64 67 64 59 43 30 28 20 9A

1945 NEUTRAL 30 32 40 34 48 64 70 69 52 36 30 26 26 9B

1946 NEUTRAL 26 28 34 45 55 58 67 63 64 41 39 26 26 9B

1947 NEUTRAL 19 25 26 37 52 65 66 69 51 51 30 26 19 8B

1948 NEUTRAL 19 23 21 43 52 61 69 66 51 44 25 28 19 8B

1949 NEUTRAL 0 28 36 39 58 61 68 65 58 41 36 25 0 7A

1950 LA NINA 30 31 32 45 61 65 68 66 62 50 25 14 14 8A

1951 LA NINA 18 6 27 36 50 64 71 69 56 50 27 20 6 7B

1952 NEUTRAL 31 30 28 42 46 62 69 66 58 39 32 26 26 9B

1953 NEUTRAL 27 32 38 42 46 62 71 70 57 49 34 23 23 9A

1954 NEUTRAL 27 29 30 45 44 63 69 71 57 40 34 28 27 9B

1955 LA NINA 28 22 29 48 61 58 70 71 65 38 26 26 22 9A

1956 LA NINA 27 25 28 38 56 68 69 65 59 47 31 32 25 9B

1957 NEUTRAL 23 40 35 40 52 60 69 69 55 34 30 18 18 8B

1958 EL NINO 28 22 33 47 53 69 68 65 61 46 32 26 22 9A

1959 NEUTRAL 20 32 31 36 61 67 67 69 57 44 23 29 20 9A

1960 NEUTRAL 23 21 31 40 48 67 71 69 57 44 34 27 21 9A

1961 NEUTRAL 28 30 37 35 52 63 70 62 57 46 39 27 27 9B

1962 LA NINA 10 32 28 39 52 63 73 68 58 46 38 28 10 8A

1963 NEUTRAL 15 25 32 48 56 68 69 71 57 52 34 24 15 8B

1964 NEUTRAL 15 28 33 39 48 53 68 70 60 38 33 24 15 8B

1965 NEUTRAL 25 25 23 44 49 64 65 64 54 40 30 30 23 9A

1966 EL NINO 16 23 24 34 56 61 67 61 55 34 26 19 16 8B

1967 NEUTRAL 21 23 29 49 46 64 62 62 47 39 31 26 21 9A

1968 NEUTRAL 24 25 29 41 50 60 65 63 52 41 30 24 24 9A

1969 NEUTRAL 19 33 32 48 48 60 70 67 58 45 26 26 19 8B

1970 NEUTRAL 15 25 33 36 46 56 70 67 57 33 25 29 15 8B

1971 LA NINA 25 23 25 35 48 69 70 67 54 52 37 30 23 9A

1972 NEUTRAL 17 20 33 37 58 59 65 69 56 46 27 19 17 8B

1973 EL NINO 18 21 38 35 48 59 71 65 58 47 30 17 17 8B

1974 LA NINA 25 22 35 37 57 58 68 64 48 40 30 28 22 9A

1975 NEUTRAL 15 25 31 33 56 55 68 67 47 42 25 27 15 8B

1976 LA NINA 17 29 34 41 47 60 68 66 55 35 21 26 17 8B

1977 NEUTRAL 20 28 30 41 59 61 71 70 65 38 28 20 20 9A

1978 EL NINO 22 23 27 43 46 67 70 70 58 42 37 18 18 8B

1979 NEUTRAL 15 29 36 46 48 59 71 70 57 42 25 28 15 8B

1980 EL NINO 26 26 19 33 55 67 71 68 67 33 28 27 19 8B

1981 NEUTRAL 30 17 38 45 47 67 68 67 46 38 31 20 17 8B

1982 NEUTRAL 13 21 27 45 47 64 70 69 51 37 32 27 13 8A

1983 EL NINO 27 32 34 33 49 58 70 70 46 43 33 9 9 7B

1984 NEUTRAL 18 27 31 40 43 57 67 68 51 47 29 26 18 8B

1985 NEUTRAL 16 14 38 41 56 58 64 68 47 47 42 23 14 8A

1986 NEUTRAL 28 27 32 53 52 66 68 64 69 46 33 32 27 9B

1987 EL NINO 23 32 31 31 58 64 70 70 55 48 31 27 23 9A

1988 EL NINO 23 22 28 37 54 59 67 71 58 50 32 31 22 9A

1989 LA NINA 28 21 26 45 60 61 67 64 50 36 35 6 6 7B

1990 NEUTRAL 30 32 36 40 54 67 64 70 58 41 34 16 16 8B

1991 NEUTRAL 30 29 38 42 52 66 71 69 52 39 27 29 27 9B

1992 EL NINO 29 33 39 46 49 61 71 61 53 49 24 33 24 9A

1993 NEUTRAL 28 33 27 43 48 65 75 72 51 27 23 24 23 9A

1994 NEUTRAL 21 20 30 40 51 68 67 70 52 45 39 31 20 9A

1995 EL NINO 28 33 31 41 57 58 67 70 51 41 31 25 25 9B

1996 NEUTRAL 18 19 25 35 54 62 70 68 50 36 30 18 18 8B

1997 NEUTRAL 24 32 38 39 51 59 70 66 58 37 33 22 22 9A

1998 EL NINO 32 35 32 40 58 64 73 69 70 45 45 23 23 9A

1999 LA NINA 23 29 32 37 53 69 69 71 49 41 31 25 23 9A

2000 LA NINA 23 32 34 39 59 65 69 70 48 40 33 28 23 9A

2001 NEUTRAL 26 31 34 47 54 67 68 69 50 40 30 30 26 9B

2002 NEUTRAL 22 17 19 49 49 66 71 71 58 48 35 31 17 8B

2003 EL NINO 25 27 30 37 61 63 68 68 57 45 29 27 25 9B

2004 NEUTRAL 29 29 44 40 49 66 67 63 64 49 35 24 24 9A

2005 NEUTRAL 29 35 33 38 49 65 71 68 67 37 31 27 27 9B

2006 NEUTRAL 32 23 32 49 54 65 70 71 57 43 35 29 23 9A

2007 EL NINO 29 24 30 35 61 66 68 71 64 42 32 28 24 9A

2008 LA NINA 26 28 32 42 56 71 68 71 58 39 33 30 26 9B

2009 NEUTRAL 28 30 34 37 56 63 72 71 57 41 38 23 23 9A

2010 EL NINO 16 29 35 42 50 67 73 66 52 38 28 27 16 8B

2011 LA NINA 27 19 33 40 47 68 75 73 59 40 31 27 19 8B

2012 LA NINA 30 32 37 50 58 66 72 71 59 41 38 27 27 9B

2013 NEUTRAL 29 31 33 41 42 65 65 71 57 46 33 29 29 9B

2014 NEUTRAL 22 29 27 39 47 67 72 70 63 51 31 31 22 9A

2015 NEUTRAL 28 32 31 49 54 65 70 71 65 52 33 34 28 9B

2016 EL NINO 30 30 36 42 53 64 73 71 59 46 34 25 25 9B

2017 NEUTRAL 19 37 45 45 50 68 72 65 57 36 36 28 19 8B

2018 NEUTRAL 21 30 45 41 56 73 71 69 64 45 23 33 21 9A

2019 NEUTRAL 29 32 28 37 57 65 64 76 70 34 32 27 27 9B

2020 NEUTRAL 34 29 47 45 57 63 73 69 51 40 34 28 28 9B

2021 LA NINA 29 9 38 47 59 66 71 71 56 46 38 34 9 7B

2022 LA NINA 26 21 26 44 59 69 74 74 60 46 38 16 16 8B

2023 31 31 40 50 58 64 74 72 69 42 M M 31

Mean 24 27 33 42 53 63 69 68 57 43 32 27 20 8B/9A

San Antonio.xlsx 67.67 kB · 0 downloads

November 23, 2023

4 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Very interesting. Was looking into some temp records and stumbled upon this:

I did my analysis for North Padre the hard way, analyzing winter monthly weather records for the Corpus Christi Naval Air Station located a few miles from North Padre with temperatures that nearly always match those occurring on North Padre. I have been unable to find compiled historical weather for the CCNAS.

November 23, 2023

4 hours ago, ChrisA said:

So, I've been creating a spreadsheet to populate with all the data I could find on the NWS website for San Antonio. I added columns to show each year what the planting zone was. It's fairly consistent how the low temperatures have fluctuated up and down since 1886 - when the first records began to be recorded in the city.

The discussion on this thread has pointed out how the current range being used (1990-2020) to create the latest iteration does not include the recent cold spells of the last 2 out of 3 years in Texas. It got me to thinking, what if we analyzed the data by decade to see what the zones were for each decade. This shows how variable the absolute minimums affected the averages going all the way back to the late 1800's. The recent warming trend of just those data is not without precedent in that time period. Please see the graphs below for details.

Hopefully others will consider how climate change may be altering your averages upwards in a more long term trend as compared to what I see in my part of Texas. I imagine areas in parts of the Southwest and possibly the Southeast and East Coast may see better trends as there is more to block the southward bound polar vortexes than a few barb-wired fences. 😉

I've attached the spreadsheet in case anyone wants to use it as a template or if others interested in San Antonio weather records.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

El Nino Years Average: 22.15 9A

La Nina Years Average: 19.33 8B

ENSO Neutral Years Average: 20.90 9A (barely)

YEAR ENSO JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC ANNUAL ZONE

FILTERED AVG 23.72 27.10 33.16 42.04 52.89 63.34 68.82 68.01 57.01 43.48 32.43 26.60 20.47 9A

1886 N/A 6 25 35 35 54 63 66 70 54 43 22 17 6 7B

1887 N/A 17 28 39 37 47 64 68 67 50 44 28 22 17 8B

1888 N/A 11 38 37 50 54 61 64 69 58 40 34 35 11 8B

1889 N/A 28 33 40 49 46 58 68 67 52 42 31 35 28 9B

1890 N/A 25 24 21 42 55 58 69 68 46 46 37 28 21 9A

1891 N/A 25 27 29 39 47 62 69 57 57 45 32 26 25 9B

1892 N/A 19 43 23 43 50 54 66 68 55 41 32 22 19 8B

1893 N/A 26 26 35 46 52 65 72 59 61 45 33 29 26 9B

1894 N/A 16 25 32 48 53 62 67 63 61 39 33 20 16 8B

1895 N/A 25 11 33 47 49 61 70 69 56 49 32 26 11 8A

1896 NEUTRAL 27 33 35 44 61 62 68 67 47 50 32 30 27 9B

1897 EL NINO 18 29 38 45 56 61 68 66 54 46 38 29 18 8B

1898 NEUTRAL 27 33 33 41 50 64 66 68 62 37 30 20 20 9A

1899 NEUTRAL 20 4 32 38 62 64 66 71 56 46 34 30 4 7A

1900 EL NINO 22 19 32 36 56 67 69 69 68 46 30 34 19 8B

1901 NEUTRAL 26 27 31 42 52 62 70 71 54 45 39 15 15 8B

1902 NEUTRAL 26 31 37 46 53 68 69 72 55 51 36 33 26 9B

1903 EL NINO 27 19 35 44 44 54 65 69 50 40 31 33 19 8B

1904 LA NINA 22 30 35 42 52 63 67 66 65 46 29 26 22 9A

1905 NEUTRAL 24 13 45 43 57 66 60 67 63 45 40 29 13 8A

1906 EL NINO 24 28 29 51 54 66 69 62 61 43 26 33 24 9A

1907 NEUTRAL 30 28 42 45 45 57 66 68 58 53 29 35 28 9B

1908 NEUTRAL 22 27 43 40 46 69 68 68 47 38 32 33 22 9A

1909 LA NINA 20 21 38 42 47 63 70 70 51 43 39 24 20 9A

1910 LA NINA 23 19 43 46 55 59 68 72 66 36 39 33 19 8B

1911 LA NINA 16 29 39 49 54 68 64 67 68 40 23 30 16 8B

1912 NEUTRAL 18 18 35 42 55 59 70 70 57 51 30 31 18 8B

1913 NEUTRAL 20 30 31 41 56 64 71 67 53 36 43 32 20 9A

1914 NEUTRAL 31 23 34 35 57 70 71 68 57 45 38 26 23 9A

1915 EL NINO 27 37 29 39 56 62 67 58 61 49 33 30 27 9B

1916 NEUTRAL 22 25 40 39 52 63 70 69 52 42 28 22 22 9A

1917 LA NINA 27 19 29 44 45 62 68 69 55 32 41 19 19 8B

1918 LA NINA 12 23 41 47 55 67 68 69 53 42 30 30 12 8A

1919 EL NINO 24 32 36 45 57 48 68 70 61 53 33 25 24 9A

1920 NEUTRAL 30 34 29 37 59 63 71 69 53 44 27 27 27 9B

1921 NEUTRAL 34 31 41 40 54 65 70 70 64 48 38 30 30 10A

1922 NEUTRAL 29 27 22 50 57 62 69 69 62 50 41 31 22 9A

1923 NEUTRAL 38 24 28 47 58 68 65 69 62 44 36 32 24 9A

1924 NEUTRAL 24 32 30 39 53 63 64 73 52 45 36 21 21 9A

1925 LA NINA 25 36 42 47 46 68 70 63 61 36 35 19 19 8B

1926 EL NINO 26 38 36 42 52 62 68 64 55 51 36 28 26 9B

1927 NEUTRAL 27 31 31 45 56 63 71 69 61 51 39 26 26 9B

1928 NEUTRAL 17 33 33 37 54 60 71 68 58 49 38 31 17 8B

1929 NEUTRAL 28 22 38 56 48 70 68 70 61 47 31 21 21 9A

1930 NEUTRAL 11 37 33 50 58 60 69 70 58 47 38 29 11 8A

1931 EL NINO 30 40 32 42 52 63 71 68 65 51 42 34 30 10A

1932 NEUTRAL 33 38 24 50 58 61 70 68 62 42 28 24 24 9A

1933 NEUTRAL 30 12 40 41 53 62 70 68 72 59 46 35 12 7A

1934 LA NINA 32 29 31 54 58 67 69 71 60 57 38 33 29 9B

1935 NEUTRAL 18 28 42 48 47 66 70 68 54 47 34 29 18 8B

1936 NEUTRAL 25 19 45 38 58 65 69 69 53 42 31 34 19 8B

1937 NEUTRAL 26 29 32 42 57 63 67 70 62 48 27 29 26 9B

1938 NEUTRAL 27 28 43 36 53 68 73 70 59 41 29 29 27 9B

1939 LA NINA 35 30 42 37 61 68 70 67 59 44 39 32 30 10A

1940 NEUTRAL 15 33 37 35 56 60 66 64 53 46 29 34 15 8B

1941 EL NINO 27 30 33 46 57 65 68 69 66 46 31 31 27 9B

1942 EL NINO 23 30 33 44 54 64 65 66 41 48 32 26 23 9A

1943 LA NINA 17 30 21 50 55 65 68 67 54 40 32 22 17 8B

1944 NEUTRAL 20 26 29 38 45 64 67 64 59 43 30 28 20 9A

1945 NEUTRAL 30 32 40 34 48 64 70 69 52 36 30 26 26 9B

1946 NEUTRAL 26 28 34 45 55 58 67 63 64 41 39 26 26 9B

1947 NEUTRAL 19 25 26 37 52 65 66 69 51 51 30 26 19 8B

1948 NEUTRAL 19 23 21 43 52 61 69 66 51 44 25 28 19 8B

1949 NEUTRAL 0 28 36 39 58 61 68 65 58 41 36 25 0 7A

1950 LA NINA 30 31 32 45 61 65 68 66 62 50 25 14 14 8A

1951 LA NINA 18 6 27 36 50 64 71 69 56 50 27 20 6 7B

1952 NEUTRAL 31 30 28 42 46 62 69 66 58 39 32 26 26 9B

1953 NEUTRAL 27 32 38 42 46 62 71 70 57 49 34 23 23 9A

1954 NEUTRAL 27 29 30 45 44 63 69 71 57 40 34 28 27 9B

1955 LA NINA 28 22 29 48 61 58 70 71 65 38 26 26 22 9A

1956 LA NINA 27 25 28 38 56 68 69 65 59 47 31 32 25 9B

1957 NEUTRAL 23 40 35 40 52 60 69 69 55 34 30 18 18 8B

1958 EL NINO 28 22 33 47 53 69 68 65 61 46 32 26 22 9A

1959 NEUTRAL 20 32 31 36 61 67 67 69 57 44 23 29 20 9A

1960 NEUTRAL 23 21 31 40 48 67 71 69 57 44 34 27 21 9A

1961 NEUTRAL 28 30 37 35 52 63 70 62 57 46 39 27 27 9B

1962 LA NINA 10 32 28 39 52 63 73 68 58 46 38 28 10 8A

1963 NEUTRAL 15 25 32 48 56 68 69 71 57 52 34 24 15 8B

1964 NEUTRAL 15 28 33 39 48 53 68 70 60 38 33 24 15 8B

1965 NEUTRAL 25 25 23 44 49 64 65 64 54 40 30 30 23 9A

1966 EL NINO 16 23 24 34 56 61 67 61 55 34 26 19 16 8B

1967 NEUTRAL 21 23 29 49 46 64 62 62 47 39 31 26 21 9A

1968 NEUTRAL 24 25 29 41 50 60 65 63 52 41 30 24 24 9A

1969 NEUTRAL 19 33 32 48 48 60 70 67 58 45 26 26 19 8B

1970 NEUTRAL 15 25 33 36 46 56 70 67 57 33 25 29 15 8B

1971 LA NINA 25 23 25 35 48 69 70 67 54 52 37 30 23 9A

1972 NEUTRAL 17 20 33 37 58 59 65 69 56 46 27 19 17 8B

1973 EL NINO 18 21 38 35 48 59 71 65 58 47 30 17 17 8B

1974 LA NINA 25 22 35 37 57 58 68 64 48 40 30 28 22 9A

1975 NEUTRAL 15 25 31 33 56 55 68 67 47 42 25 27 15 8B

1976 LA NINA 17 29 34 41 47 60 68 66 55 35 21 26 17 8B

1977 NEUTRAL 20 28 30 41 59 61 71 70 65 38 28 20 20 9A

1978 EL NINO 22 23 27 43 46 67 70 70 58 42 37 18 18 8B

1979 NEUTRAL 15 29 36 46 48 59 71 70 57 42 25 28 15 8B

1980 EL NINO 26 26 19 33 55 67 71 68 67 33 28 27 19 8B

1981 NEUTRAL 30 17 38 45 47 67 68 67 46 38 31 20 17 8B

1982 NEUTRAL 13 21 27 45 47 64 70 69 51 37 32 27 13 8A

1983 EL NINO 27 32 34 33 49 58 70 70 46 43 33 9 9 7B

1984 NEUTRAL 18 27 31 40 43 57 67 68 51 47 29 26 18 8B

1985 NEUTRAL 16 14 38 41 56 58 64 68 47 47 42 23 14 8A

1986 NEUTRAL 28 27 32 53 52 66 68 64 69 46 33 32 27 9B

1987 EL NINO 23 32 31 31 58 64 70 70 55 48 31 27 23 9A

1988 EL NINO 23 22 28 37 54 59 67 71 58 50 32 31 22 9A

1989 LA NINA 28 21 26 45 60 61 67 64 50 36 35 6 6 7B

1990 NEUTRAL 30 32 36 40 54 67 64 70 58 41 34 16 16 8B

1991 NEUTRAL 30 29 38 42 52 66 71 69 52 39 27 29 27 9B

1992 EL NINO 29 33 39 46 49 61 71 61 53 49 24 33 24 9A

1993 NEUTRAL 28 33 27 43 48 65 75 72 51 27 23 24 23 9A

1994 NEUTRAL 21 20 30 40 51 68 67 70 52 45 39 31 20 9A

1995 EL NINO 28 33 31 41 57 58 67 70 51 41 31 25 25 9B

1996 NEUTRAL 18 19 25 35 54 62 70 68 50 36 30 18 18 8B

1997 NEUTRAL 24 32 38 39 51 59 70 66 58 37 33 22 22 9A

1998 EL NINO 32 35 32 40 58 64 73 69 70 45 45 23 23 9A

1999 LA NINA 23 29 32 37 53 69 69 71 49 41 31 25 23 9A

2000 LA NINA 23 32 34 39 59 65 69 70 48 40 33 28 23 9A

2001 NEUTRAL 26 31 34 47 54 67 68 69 50 40 30 30 26 9B

2002 NEUTRAL 22 17 19 49 49 66 71 71 58 48 35 31 17 8B

2003 EL NINO 25 27 30 37 61 63 68 68 57 45 29 27 25 9B

2004 NEUTRAL 29 29 44 40 49 66 67 63 64 49 35 24 24 9A

2005 NEUTRAL 29 35 33 38 49 65 71 68 67 37 31 27 27 9B

2006 NEUTRAL 32 23 32 49 54 65 70 71 57 43 35 29 23 9A

2007 EL NINO 29 24 30 35 61 66 68 71 64 42 32 28 24 9A

2008 LA NINA 26 28 32 42 56 71 68 71 58 39 33 30 26 9B

2009 NEUTRAL 28 30 34 37 56 63 72 71 57 41 38 23 23 9A

2010 EL NINO 16 29 35 42 50 67 73 66 52 38 28 27 16 8B

2011 LA NINA 27 19 33 40 47 68 75 73 59 40 31 27 19 8B

2012 LA NINA 30 32 37 50 58 66 72 71 59 41 38 27 27 9B

2013 NEUTRAL 29 31 33 41 42 65 65 71 57 46 33 29 29 9B

2014 NEUTRAL 22 29 27 39 47 67 72 70 63 51 31 31 22 9A

2015 NEUTRAL 28 32 31 49 54 65 70 71 65 52 33 34 28 9B

2016 EL NINO 30 30 36 42 53 64 73 71 59 46 34 25 25 9B

2017 NEUTRAL 19 37 45 45 50 68 72 65 57 36 36 28 19 8B

2018 NEUTRAL 21 30 45 41 56 73 71 69 64 45 23 33 21 9A

2019 NEUTRAL 29 32 28 37 57 65 64 76 70 34 32 27 27 9B

2020 NEUTRAL 34 29 47 45 57 63 73 69 51 40 34 28 28 9B

2021 LA NINA 29 9 38 47 59 66 71 71 56 46 38 34 9 7B

2022 LA NINA 26 21 26 44 59 69 74 74 60 46 38 16 16 8B

2023 31 31 40 50 58 64 74 72 69 42 M M 31

Mean 24 27 33 42 53 63 69 68 57 43 32 27 20 8B/9A

San Antonio.xlsx 67.67 kB · 0 downloads

Climate is changing, always has been but cold snaps are becoming less severe , shorter and less in general due to climate change the data proves it all. San Antonio used to be colder . It only gets warmer everywhere but I still would classify San Antonio as a 8b zone for planting palms and other plants.

November 23, 2023

This is a good read. I'll tell ya, if you want climate knowledge PT is the place to come to hands down.

November 24, 2023

4 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Very interesting. Was looking into some temp records and stumbled upon this:

Relating to the highlighted thoughts, some Interesting stats ..for AZ and CA i'll have to look into more while digging around Extreme Weather Watch data:

AZ:

Highly developed areas...

Phoenix: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/phoenix/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Tucson: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/tucson/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Yuma: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/yuma/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Far less developed areas ( Wish, Nogales, Sonoita and Patagonia were in this data set )

Phantom Ranch: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/phantom-ranch/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Douglas : https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/douglas-az/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Tombstone: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/tombstone/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Flag.: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/flagstaff/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Quartzite: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/quartzsite/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Gila Bend: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/gila-bend/lowest-temperatures-by-year

CA:

San Fran: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/san-francisco/lowest-temperatures-by-year

San Jose: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/san-jose

Sacramento: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/sacramento/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Los Banos: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/los-banos/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Hollister: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/hollister/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Livermore: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/livermore/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Fresno: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/fresno/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Los Angeles: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/los-angeles/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Santa Barbara: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/santa-barbara/lowest-temperatures-by-year

San Jacinto: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/san-jacinto/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Long Beach: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/long-beach/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Escondido: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/escondido/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Palm Springs: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/palm-springs/lowest-temperatures-by-year

San Diego: https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/san-diego/lowest-temperatures-by-year

Wow that's a handy website, I can't believe I haven't found it before, especially since I actively search for tools like this. Too bad there isn't a bigger selection of stations to choose from. Very strong warming in urban locations like Phoenix, wow it used to get a lot colder every year before the UHI, it still does on the outskirts which can be deceiving since the news forecasts for Sky Harbor. Also on Phoenix, the true record cold of 12 degrees in 1913! But that was at a different station than used now, the figure I usually see sited as record cold for Phoenix 16.

November 24, 2023

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

Climate is changing, always has been but cold snaps are becoming less severe , shorter and less in general due to climate change the data proves it all. San Antonio used to be colder . It only gets warmer everywhere but I still would classify San Antonio as a 8b zone for planting palms and other plants.

Reminds me, I need to start decorating the "Christmas Tree" 🌴. I got the box setup, I just have to tape on the top with duct tape and aluminum tape (duct tape as in actual tape used in air conditioning and heating), I also have to wrap the palm in the mini-incandescent lights. I have them i think, but the box doesn't specify if they are or not, if anyone knows, its the brand make the season bright 300ct mini lights.

November 24, 2023

No zone change for my refrigerator. It's still a 10b in there. 😂

November 24, 2023

Fascinating how such a publication can generate such response and interest. I'm a bit mystified by the excitement over it.

November 24, 2023

15 hours ago, Xerarch said:

Wow that's a handy website, I can't believe I haven't found it before, especially since I actively search for tools like this. Too bad there isn't a bigger selection of stations to choose from. Very strong warming in urban locations like Phoenix, wow it used to get a lot colder every year before the UHI, it still does on the outskirts which can be deceiving since the news forecasts for Sky Harbor. Also on Phoenix, the true record cold of 12 degrees in 1913! But that was at a different station than used now, the figure I usually see sited as record cold for Phoenix 16.

I'd briefly looked at the site a few years ago, then completely forgot about it until doing an out of curiosity search for San Jose's all time low. Agree, there should be a bigger selection of locations than those listed. Perhaps that will occur over time?? ..anyway..

Phoenix is interesting for sure.. UHI influence is noticeable, esp after the 80s, but, you can see it was warming -slowly- prior to that. Will be interesting to see how all the current development influences things -valley wide- over the next 15 -25 years..

Depending on when you lived here / how much you wandered around town ..East Valley in particular, you may not recognize Queen Creek / San Tan area upon a current -or future- visit.. Chandler and southern flanks of Gilbert have all but filled in as well, even since '16. Just 4 large pieces of Ag land left to be developed between the south side of the 202, and the San Tans, east of AZ Ave / 87..

I remember how limited development was out there when we first got here.. Pretty much nothing but open desert east of Ellsworth / Mesa Gateway to the mountains west of Boyce Thompson along the 79 ..Not any more, lol

Queen Creek is currently in the planning phase for extending Hwy 24 another 3 miles east to where the CAP canal passes ..roughly 7 miles west of HWY 79, and building another large parkway that will extend south along the canal to the southern end of San Tan Valley ( Arizona Farms RD ) I barely recognized anything when i passed through the area last spring. Sounds crazy but Traffic down there might be worse than traveling towards town Phoenix, lol.

All that development, esp once the 24 is eventually connected to Hwy 79, ( Anyone with a brain knows that is gonna happen, lol ) the north - south corridor / freeway is built ..and that entire area, inc all the Ag. areas left in San Tan Valley fill in, say goodbye to that cold sink. Coolidge and Florence are set to expand quite a bit too. Areas south of Tucson / between Tucson, and Nogales are ramping up to start filling in as well..

Area is going to look ..and feel much different in 40-70 years. Maybe we'll be approaching 11B?, lol.

November 24, 2023

Off topic but, looks nice, I’m using 300 mini lights, max is 120 watts but it’s for some reason consuming only 55.8 watts, should I be worried?

November 24, 2023

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Depending on when you lived here / how much you wandered around town ..East Valley in particular, you may not recognize Queen Creek / San Tan area upon a current -or future- visit..

I left PHX area in 2012, I was very well traveled all over town while there. At that time those satellite communities like Queen Creek, Maricopa, etc. had already experienced an enormous boom of development with all kinds of new HOAs popping up all over the place, those got hit hard after the 2008 bubble but that was only temporary. I’m sure all those places are nearly unrecognizable now compared to when I was there though. Those areas also experienced much harder freezes during cold events. Ficus ‘nitida’ would get smoked on the outskirts while the ones in the UHI would do fine. Maricopa used to be a good glimpse of what the climate of Phoenix would be like without the urbanization, but as all those places develop and the UHI continues to expand, their warming will just be accelerated also.

November 25, 2023

I must say, I'm quite surprised at how far inland some of the 9a goes in South Carolina's Lowcountry. The very far inland portion of North Charleston is even 9a. image.png.0aeb11ec54e500b6fabdc90951825f74.png

November 26, 2023

On 11/24/2023 at 11:11 AM, ChicagoPalma said:

Off topic but, looks nice, I’m using 300 mini lights, max is 120 watts but it’s for some reason consuming only 55.8 watts, should I be worried?

Weather proof that thermo-cube.

November 26, 2023

I did, since the box is sealed and there will be a tarp over the box to not let any moisture such as rain or snow to drip in. I will also mulch the cannas because they are a pain in the butt to dig out and I was finally able to pull out one deep tuber, so im doing something no grower has done here, and im going to put a pile of mulch and a tarp on it, I might also add c9 lights on it and connect it overnight when temperatures to planned to go below 0 F.

November 26, 2023

Probably a foot of mulch and a insulating tarp and that should be good enough. El nino will keep snowfall low and predictions are we will reach -5f this winter for a more prolonged period, and the low temps won't last a minute.

November 26, 2023

🎶It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas! 🎶

🎶 The palms are wrapped up and cozy🎶

November 27, 2023

On 11/19/2023 at 10:46 AM, Aceraceae said:

Philly and small parts of the NYC metro area are within a degree F of being zone 8, like Nantucket.

I'm in south area of the borough of Queens, just a stone's throw away from JFK airport facing Jamaica Bay, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's my case ( besides microclimates, that would explain why I am able to grow regular Sabal Palmettos outside ).

I do remember as a kid growing up in the '70's in the City, walking to the school bus stop, that winters here were much much colder, and huge snowstorms during the season were far more common than now. I'm pretty sure that the New York Metro hardiness area was mapped as Zone 6b back then.

But I believe that It was only around the late '80's that my area of New York started to transition into Zone 7A. While I couldn't find any earlier maps showing this, for reference, here is the next best thing with the USDA Hardiness Zones Map for 1990:

And here is the related USDA Hardiness interactive Zones Map for 1990 for the NYC Metro region:

Notice that at this time in 1990, most of the five boroughs and the interior of Suffolk county were still Zone 6B, with most of Long Island a bit warner at 7A.

( One would think that of all the cities of the world, Manhattan at this point time here would demonstrate the Urban Heat Island effect )

Now let's look at the map that until recently, most people here in the area ( who were into plants ) referred to -

USDA Hardiness interactive Zones Map for 2012 for the NYC Metro region:

....And the USDA Hardiness interactive Zones Map for 2012:

From the above maps, one can see that the 7B warmings trend is now focused on the South West , including small parts of Staten Island and the Bronx , not to mention the Hamptons / Montauk corner in the east part of Long Island. On the other hand, the majority of the Island , the Bronx and sections of Staten Island were still 7A.

Now we come to the present time, with the USDA Hardiness Zones Map for 2023 for the NYC Metro region:

USDA Hardiness interactive Zones Map for 2023 for the NYC Metro region:

As you can tell from the above updated map, most of Long Island , as well as Manhattan, Staten Island, and the Bronx's and Parts of North Eastern New Jersey are now considered solidly 7B.

So with the recent documentation of this warming trend , if any area here in the NYC metro region begins to become a zone warmer, I can reasonably assume that I will be right in the middle of it!

************************

That being said, while I myself won't live to see it, with the climate being the way it is now, I bet that someday, my descendants could most likely see the below speculative scenes as totally normal :

( That is, if New York City is still here then )

WELCOME GUEST

2023 USDA Plant Hardiness Zone Maps Out

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