Euterpe edulis in dry summer climates

[philthypalms]

Following up a chat a while ago about Euterpe edulis in Perth. Here is mine, today. We had a heatwave to end November (Perth heatwave is a real heatwave, we are talking a week of temps 36°C or higher)

[James B]

That’s similar to my climate. I had a double in my old garden. Plan on getting one here in my new one.

I saw 113F which I think is close to 45 Celsius so these palms can handle heat fine you need to give it lots of water as their native climate is hot and humid in summer in Brazil. 

[Than]

Similar to my climate too, but I'm 5 miles from the sea. What emperatures have they seen in winter and do you protect them?

[philthypalms]

22 minutes ago, ego said:

Similar to my climate too, but I'm 5 miles from the sea. What emperatures have they seen in winter and do you protect them?

I don't protect it from Winter...Heat is the enemy of E. edulis. Perth Northern Suburbs don't go below freezing. Our easterly winds are the problem. Many palms could be tried here if that blast furnace heat off the Nullarbor Plains and Great Australian Bight would buzz off.

[Than]

8 minutes ago, philthypalms said:

I don't protect it from Winter...Heat is the enemy of E. edulis. Perth Northern Suburbs don't go below freezing. Our easterly winds are the problem. Many palms could be tried here if that blast furnace heat off the Nullarbor Plains and Great Australian Bight would buzz off.

I have read they are super tropicals, but I guess yours has seen 4C or less unprotected?

[philthypalms]

9 hours ago, James B said:

That’s similar to my climate. I had a double in my old garden. Plan on getting one here in my new one.

I saw 113F which I think is close to 45 Celsius so these palms can handle heat fine you need to give it lots of water as their native climate is hot and humid in summer in Brazil. 

Yes, shade and water seems to be the key. I have found Ceroxylon does better in hot Sun than Euterpe.

[happypalms]

9 hours ago, philthypalms said:

Following up a chat a while ago about Euterpe edulis in Perth. Here is mine, today. We had a heatwave to end November (Perth heatwave is a real heatwave, we are talking a week of temps 36°C or higher)

Nice palms sunny hot dry and windy Perth gotta love one of the most isolated cities in the world being so far away from the rest Australia let alone the rest of the world 

[philthypalms]

11 minutes ago, ego said:

I have read they are super tropicals, but I guess yours has seen 4C or less unprotected?

Perth is like Sydney...If it gets cold, it is only for a couple of hours either side of dawn at the last half of winter if we have a clear sky. The sun soon brings most things back from the edge of death. But cold enough for the stuff that is only adapted for one Biome to leave us.

[philthypalms]

25 minutes ago, ego said:

I have read they are super tropicals, but I guess yours has seen 4C or less unprotected?

 

15 minutes ago, happypalms said:

Nice palms sunny hot dry and windy Perth gotta love one of the most isolated cities in the world being so far away from the rest Australia let alone the rest of the world 

If not for the lack of humidity, we would be able to grow what grows in Brisbane, Perth is a bit closer to the Equator than Sydney.

[Than]

5 hours ago, philthypalms said:

 

If not for the lack of humidity, we would be able to grow what grows in Brisbane, Perth is a bit closer to the Equator than Sydney.

Yeah I just checked and north Perth is zone 11a. I could only dream of such a climate. Here we get 4-5 cold snaps a year, when nights can be 2C and days 9C for few days. With high humidity and wet soil. 😢

[iko.]

11 hours ago, ego said:

I have read they are super tropicals, but I guess yours has seen 4C or less unprotected?

They're probably not that tropical. I had one growing in a shady corner of the garden north of Valencia (Spain) for a few years and never saw any damage weather wise. Unfortunately, the plant was killed by a cat. 

[tim_brissy_13]

14 hours ago, ego said:

I have read they are super tropicals, but I guess yours has seen 4C or less unprotected?

Definitely not super tropical. My E edulis ‘Orange Crownshaft’ has gone through as low as 29F/-1.5C and we have long, cool winters in Melbourne with average temps around 50F/10C. There used to be a couple of the standard green form growing in the Dandenong ranges east of Melbourne at about 400-500m asl where it rarely gets above 50F/10C for months in winter. They definitely don’t mind the cool. 

[Than]

10 hours ago, iko. said:

They're probably not that tropical. I had one growing in a shady corner of the garden north of Valencia (Spain) for a few years and never saw any damage weather wise. Unfortunately, the plant was killed by a cat. 

Oh dear. How did the cat kill it? Was it very small? My new neighbour has 15 cats!!

[Than]

7 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Definitely not super tropical. My E edulis ‘Orange Crownshaft’ has gone through as low as 29F/-1.5C and we have long, cool winters in Melbourne with average temps around 50F/10C. There used to be a couple of the standard green form growing in the Dandenong ranges east of Melbourne at about 400-500m asl where it rarely gets above 50F/10C for months in winter. They definitely don’t mind the cool. 

That sounds like music in my ears! Was the soil wet? And was it totally unprotected?

[iko.]

Just now, ego said:

Oh dear. How did the cat kill it? Was it very small? My new neighbour has 15 cats!!

Stray cats actually. They used the same path to enter and the Euterpe was on their way. No matter how many thorny plants were around it, the cats have continued using the same ride. In one of their jumps the meristem got broken. It grew from a little seedling to almost 1 metre palm with some trunk. After the incident, it lasted two more years with no growing signs until the entire plant died, RIP.

Similar to OP, I had the Euterpe in a pot and seeing how well was doing I put it in the ground. Over its life span, it went through some cold, drought, neglect, full sun exposure for some time, flooding and hail. I'll try again in Valencia if I can find one. 

[Than]

47 minutes ago, iko. said:

Stray cats actually. They used the same path to enter and the Euterpe was on their way. No matter how many thorny plants were around it, the cats have continued using the same ride. In one of their jumps the meristem got broken. It grew from a little seedling to almost 1 metre palm with some trunk. After the incident, it lasted two more years with no growing signs until the entire plant died, RIP.

Similar to OP, I had the Euterpe in a pot and seeing how well was doing I put it in the ground. Over its life span, it went through some cold, drought, neglect, full sun exposure for some time, flooding and hail. I'll try again in Valencia if I can find one. 

1 metre, such a shame! How long did it take to reach that height from seed?

[iko.]

35 minutes ago, ego said:

1 metre, such a shame! How long did it take to reach that height from seed?

A bit more than 6 years, approx. It was a slow grower for me and spent too long in a small pot. 

[Than]

2 hours ago, iko. said:

A bit more than 6 years, approx. It was a slow grower for me and spent too long in a small pot. 

ah it was in a pot! Mine too but I will put it in the ground in April hoping it will grow a bit faster..

@Phoenikakias have you tried this species in the ground? How did it go? Please share your always precious experience

Edited December 11, 2023 by ego

[iko.]

56 minutes ago, ego said:

ah it was in a pot! Mine too but I will put it in the ground in April hoping it will grow a bit faster..

First, it was in a small pot because I was concerned it will not survive. Seeing how well it was doing and how many roots was pushing to the ground I decided to put it in the soil where the Euterpe spent a few happy years. I didn't notice a difference in the growth rate pot vs soil, not really a fast grower.

Good luck trying, hopefully will look as good as the one OP has shown us.

Edited December 11, 2023 by iko.

[Than]

1 hour ago, iko. said:

First, it was in a small pot because I was concerned it will not survive. Seeing how well it was doing and how many roots was pushing to the ground I decided to put it in the soil where the Euterpe spent a few happy years. I didn't notice a difference in the growth rate pot vs soil, not really a fast grower.

Good luck trying, hopefully will look as good as the one OP has shown us.

I see. Do they prefer shade? Also, what are the minimum temperatures there?

 

[Phoenikakias]

5 hours ago, ego said:

ah it was in a pot! Mine too but I will put it in the ground in April hoping it will grow a bit faster..

@Phoenikakias have you tried this species in the ground? How did it go? Please share your always precious experience

You called me, here I am! I have killed many moons ago several Euterpe young palms , not during the cold season, as you might assume, but in mid summer. Very susceptible to spider mites and very tender to lack of air moisture. But my place is very wind exposed to northern, summer wind and back then those juveniles did not have any essential canopy protection.  @Kostas has one or two exemplars from seed of the cold hardier variety (Brazilian high tableland), which, as long as I am aware, performed admirably well in the leeward part of Athens Riviera (Glyfada). 

[Than]

1 hour ago, Phoenikakias said:

You called me, here I am! I have killed many moons ago several Euterpe young palms , not during the cold season, as you might assume, but in mid summer. Very susceptible to spider mites and very tender to lack of air moisture. But my place is very wind exposed to northern, summer wind and back then those juveniles did not have any essential canopy protection.  @Kostas has one or two exemplars from seed of the cold hardier variety (Brazilian high tableland), which, as long as I am aware, performed admirably well in the leeward part of Athens Riviera (Glyfada). 

There is no efficient treatment for spider mites?

[philthypalms]

The same Euterpe edulis after the hottest Summer recorded in Perth, it did well in shade and a permanently full pot saucer. Might plant it in the bed behind, there is a good canopy.