I think they are Hyophorbe amaricaulis. Do I understand correctly? Thank you.

[Alexberm]

[Johnny Palmseed]

Looks like Veitchia and Archontophoenix

[Fishinsteeg234]

It’s not Hyophorbe amaricaulis, as Palmpedia says there’s only one sole survivor left….😢

https://palmpedia.net/wiki/Hyophorbe_amaricaulis

 

[PalmatierMeg]

3 hours ago, Fishinsteeg234 said:

It’s not Hyophorbe amaricaulis, as Palmpedia says there’s only one sole survivor left….😢

https://palmpedia.net/wiki/Hyophorbe_amaricaulis

 

Agree. To my knowledge no-one has been able to reproduce/clone or otherwise duplicate that Hyophorbe

[Alexberm]

6 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Agree. To my knowledge no-one has been able to reproduce/clone or otherwise duplicate that Hyophorbe

Thank you. And what are they species?

[ASHCVS]

And here it is, drum-roll please!
 

[John2468]

Now that’s the one!!👆

Edited January 9, 2024 by John2468

[Tyrone]

I got excited when I thought someone had found Hyophorbe americaulis growing somewhere, but no. 😔

I saw the one and only back in March and it didn’t look happy. It may be coming to the end of its life and it could very well be around 200 years old at a very wild guess. 

[Tyrone]

The reason I think it could be around 200 years old is that the Curepipe Botanic Garden was started in 1870 and it is rumoured that this palm was a wild plant incorporated into the gardens. There could be some truth to that with this species reportedly existing only in upland areas of Mauritius with Curepipe being in a high elevation area. It was in 1942 that it was reported to be the last one, and the cage was built in the 60s to protect it. It has grown in this time but hasn’t massively outgrown the cage. 

[tim_brissy_13]

2024 Save the Species campaign? Sounds like there have been partially successful attempts to propagate but seedlings don’t survive when transplanted from sterile to fertile media. Surely with the worldwide fascination into this species, enough funding could be generated to have a really good go of it. 

[Tyrone]

12 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

2024 Save the Species campaign? Sounds like there have been partially successful attempts to propagate but seedlings don’t survive when transplanted from sterile to fertile media. Surely with the worldwide fascination into this species, enough funding could be generated to have a really good go of it. 

I totally agree with you.
 

The ones they germinated were put through an embryo extraction process and then germinated in agar. The extraction process sounds difficult and full of risk, but you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do. This was in 2010 and to my knowledge was never tried again. 
 

When I was in Mauritius looking for Hyophorbe vaughanii I was chatting to a park ranger about the possibility of trying to hybridise H amaricaulis with H indica. However he had never heard of Hyophorbe indica. At the Pampellmouses BG I asked about Hyophorbe indica and got a blank look. When I showed the man there a picture of H indica he said it was a bottle palm, Hyophorbe lagenicaulis, which of course was wrong. I never saw a H indica anywhere in Mauritius. They were even rare in Reunion island where they come from. One thing I noticed about Mauritius and Reunion although being neighbours only a couple of hundred kms from each other that share similar experiences and botany is that they barely know each other. Politically they are separate countries.

Why I’m talking about this, is that in regards to Hyophorbe amaricaulis, if we can’t get a single seed to germinate why not cross it with its closest relative in H indica. Then take those progeny while H amaricaulis is still alive and back cross them back to H amaricaulis. Hyophorbe indica is a fast grower especially in the tropics. Continue that back crossing as many times as physically possible and we should have preserved as much of the H amaricaulis dna as we can in living plants. 
 

It appears that efforts in Hyophorbe amaricaulis have stalled in the last 14 years. Kew and others should be looking at picking up the ball again. Technology has moved on but time is running out. We are talking about sending people to Mars and we are letting extinctions continue. 

[Mandrew968]

Here here.  Tyrone brings up an interesting point-if this palm was possibly transplanted to it's location, maybe that is why it doesn't reproduce; if the weather is cooler than it would like, then it probably will never set seed in its current location. Someone should extract pollen and put it on every single Hyophorbe we can.

[hbernstein]

Although it isn't generally done with palms, why not attempt tissue culture?

As is happening with many, many organisms now: so many species, so little time. I assume that there's no Hyophorbe research currently in progress, no funding to save a single remnant individual of a taxa, no habitat to preserve or restore, no known agricultural, medical or other obvious benefits in the species' genes, and so many other priorities for biologists and conservation scientists. The plant isn't growing in a conservatory at RBG Kew or some other public display area to become a cause celebre'.

I suppose that the failed propagation attempt in 2010 was the door closing on the species' future.

20 hours ago, Tyrone said:

I totally agree with you.
 

The ones they germinated were put through an embryo extraction process and then germinated in agar. The extraction process sounds difficult and full of risk, but you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do. This was in 2010 and to my knowledge was never tried again. 
 

When I was in Mauritius looking for Hyophorbe vaughanii I was chatting to a park ranger about the possibility of trying to hybridise H amaricaulis with H indica. However he had never heard of Hyophorbe indica. At the Pampellmouses BG I asked about Hyophorbe indica and got a blank look. When I showed the man there a picture of H indica he said it was a bottle palm, Hyophorbe lagenicaulis, which of course was wrong. I never saw a H indica anywhere in Mauritius. They were even rare in Reunion island where they come from. One thing I noticed about Mauritius and Reunion although being neighbours only a couple of hundred kms from each other that share similar experiences and botany is that they barely know each other. Politically they are separate countries.

Why I’m talking about this, is that in regards to Hyophorbe amaricaulis, if we can’t get a single seed to germinate why not cross it with its closest relative in H indica. Then take those progeny while H amaricaulis is still alive and back cross them back to H amaricaulis. Hyophorbe indica is a fast grower especially in the tropics. Continue that back crossing as many times as physically possible and we should have preserved as much of the H amaricaulis dna as we can in living plants. 
 

It appears that efforts in Hyophorbe amaricaulis have stalled in the last 14 years. Kew and others should be looking at picking up the ball again. Technology has moved on but time is running out. We are talking about sending people to Mars and we are letting extinctions continue. 

 

[Mandrew968]

1 hour ago, hbernstein said:

Although it isn't generally done with palms, why not attempt tissue culture?

As is happening with many, many organisms now: so many species, so little time. I assume that there's no Hyophorbe research currently in progress, no funding to save a single remnant individual of a taxa, no habitat to preserve or restore, no known agricultural, medical or other obvious benefits in the species' genes, and so many other priorities for biologists and conservation scientists. The plant isn't growing in a conservatory at RBG Kew or some other public display area to become a cause celebre'.

I suppose that the failed propagation attempt in 2010 was the door closing on the species' future.

 

Can you do tissue culture without major damage to the palm? And aside, does anyone who knows tissue culture, think this can be done and the previous mistakes can be overcome, confidently? Because I could throw money at that...

[Tyrone]

The trouble with tissue culture and palms is that you have to get material from the growing bud deep inside the palm. To do that you kill the main plant. That’s not an issue if you have many many of that species still around. In this case we have one and if you get it wrong………….

Im of the opinion that this one last palm may have been remnant wild vegetation. Unlike its neighbour Reunion island which has mountain peaks in the 2500m plus range, Mauritius although mountainous is older geographically and doesn’t have a peak as high as 900m. Curepipe is in the 600-700m altitude range. Hyophorbe amaricaulis was first described in the 1770s from further north around a mountain called Peter Bothe (I need to check spelling). If you’ve been to Mauritius you will recall a fairly prominent mountain that sticks out quite dramatically in the landscape. It’s in the mid 800m range from memory. No remnant forest exists there any more and probably hasn’t for 200 years. It’s basically bare with cane fields and grassland now. This was the type locality for Hyophorbe amaricaulis and it was reportedly abundant there. (One can only imagine what that forest and in fact all of Mauritius would have looked like in 1770, with most of its old growth forests still intact and untouched.) So I think the one last one in Curepipe is in it’s correct climactic area to fruit. It does flower regularly if you see it from pics on the web and does fruit too. Just germination is near impossible without heroic efforts, and the growing them on has been the sticking point so far. We are almost there though. If we can just figure out how to keep the seedlings alive. I know from growing H indica, that although they germinate well, if something doesn’t suit them at that young age (too wet, too hot etc) they can almost die instantly. Once older they are fine. 

We shouldn’t be giving up, we are almost there. 

[Tracy]

On 1/10/2024 at 3:29 PM, Tyrone said:

Why I’m talking about this, is that in regards to Hyophorbe amaricaulis, if we can’t get a single seed to germinate why not cross it with its closest relative in H indica. Then take those progeny while H amaricaulis is still alive and back cross them back to H amaricaulis. Hyophorbe indica is a fast grower especially in the tropics. Continue that back crossing as many times as physically possible and we should have preserved as much of the H amaricaulis dna as we can in living plants. 

That sounds like what is being done with Encephalartos woodii, using it's pollen on female Encephalartos natalensis (assumed to be it's closest living relative) and continuing to backcross the female offspring with the E. woodii pollen.  It is a slow process given that you have to wait for the F1's to reach reproductive maturity to backcross and produce F2's, and each new successive generation.  Given that, you might need to try to freeze the Hyophorbe amaricaulis pollen for a long time for each successive generation if the existing specimen is getting near its terminal age.  It does seem like a worthy project to attempt though.  On the pollen freezing, I haven't heard of people attempting this for palms but know it isn't too uncommon for Cycad growers to do.  Preference is always for using fresh pollen, but for this particular case, that doesn't sound feasible to bet on if it takes a decade or more for the offspring to reach reproductive age.

[Alexberm]

Thank you everyone for all information. Finally, what are they palm in my picture?

[tim_brissy_13]

6 hours ago, Alexberm said:

Thank you everyone for all information. Finally, what are they palm in my picture?

Dictyosperma album and Archontophoenix alexandrae. 

[Alexberm]

2 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Dictyosperma album and Archontophoenix alexandrae. 

Thank you

[Johnny Palmseed]

10 hours ago, Alexberm said:

Thank you everyone for all information. Finally, what are they palm in my picture?

Already posted.

On 1/8/2024 at 7:25 AM, Johnny Palmseed said:

Looks like Veitchia and Archontophoenix

 

3 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Dictyosperma album and Archontophoenix alexandrae. 

Why are you saying D Album? It looks like exactly like my Veitchias.

[Fishinsteeg234]

Archontophoenix alexandrae and Veitchia winin are my wild guesses. The small red seeds still attached on the last photo scream Archontophoenix to me. @Alexberm If you have any pics of the deposited seeds, even dried out on the ground, may better help. Veitchia seeds should be larger than D. albums. The tall height and lower ring spacing points to veitchia for me. Also the location of where these are growing would also help identify. 
 

Apparently we all rather talk about the loneliest palm in the world, though. I would love to see more studies to save this species before it’s too late. 

[N8ALLRIGHT]

On 1/10/2024 at 5:29 PM, Tyrone said:

I totally agree with you.
 

The ones they germinated were put through an embryo extraction process and then germinated in agar. The extraction process sounds difficult and full of risk, but you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do. This was in 2010 and to my knowledge was never tried again. 
 

When I was in Mauritius looking for Hyophorbe vaughanii I was chatting to a park ranger about the possibility of trying to hybridise H amaricaulis with H indica. However he had never heard of Hyophorbe indica. At the Pampellmouses BG I asked about Hyophorbe indica and got a blank look. When I showed the man there a picture of H indica he said it was a bottle palm, Hyophorbe lagenicaulis, which of course was wrong. I never saw a H indica anywhere in Mauritius. They were even rare in Reunion island where they come from. One thing I noticed about Mauritius and Reunion although being neighbours only a couple of hundred kms from each other that share similar experiences and botany is that they barely know each other. Politically they are separate countries.

Why I’m talking about this, is that in regards to Hyophorbe amaricaulis, if we can’t get a single seed to germinate why not cross it with its closest relative in H indica. Then take those progeny while H amaricaulis is still alive and back cross them back to H amaricaulis. Hyophorbe indica is a fast grower especially in the tropics. Continue that back crossing as many times as physically possible and we should have preserved as much of the H amaricaulis dna as we can in living plants. 
 

It appears that efforts in Hyophorbe amaricaulis have stalled in the last 14 years. Kew and others should be looking at picking up the ball again. Technology has moved on but time is running out. We are talking about sending people to Mars and we are letting extinctions continue. 

Someone needs to ring the bell... Ok I will.  

@Bill Baker (Kew)

[Alexberm]

6 hours ago, Fishinsteeg234 said:

Archontophoenix alexandrae and Veitchia winin are my wild guesses. The small red seeds still attached on the last photo scream Archontophoenix to me. @Alexberm If you have any pics of the deposited seeds, even dried out on the ground, may better help. Veitchia seeds should be larger than D. albums. The tall height and lower ring spacing points to veitchia for me. Also the location of where these are growing would also help identify. 
 

Apparently we all rather talk about the loneliest palm in the world, though. I would love to see more studies to save this species before it’s too late. 

Thank you. I will find seed and share with you in soon.  Both palm in picture, they are in Northern of Thailand.

[Tyrone]

5 hours ago, N8ALLRIGHT said:

Someone needs to ring the bell... Ok I will.  

@Bill Baker (Kew)

I was thinking that if trying to get pure Hyophorbe amaricaulis to germinate is actually impossible, then the hybridisation route is the only one left. Hyophorbe indica I would think would be the perfect candidate for this. I would imagine that the people at the Palm Park in Le Tampon in Reunion island would just love to get involved with a hybridisation program. The garden is loaded with fruiting H indica. They have the passion too and they are right next door to Mauritius, being only 45 min away by plane and an hour from the airport. 
 

Here’s the link.

https://ile-de-la-reunion.net/en/locations/parc-des-palmiers/

I personally hope something can be done. 

[Cindy Adair]

On 1/8/2024 at 10:33 PM, ASHCVS said:

And here it is, drum-roll please!
 

Love the photo Andy!
 

Very interesting topic all around.

[tim_brissy_13]

9 hours ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

Already posted.

 

Why are you saying D Album? It looks like exactly like my Veitchias.

Main reason is the leaflets come to a single point rather than jagged like Veitchia. Crownshaft and petioles also just look like typical D album to me. 

[Johnny Palmseed]

11 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Main reason is the leaflets come to a single point rather than jagged like Veitchia. Crownshaft and petioles also just look like typical D album to me. 

Hmmm. I didn’t notice the leaflets but to me the crown shaft and petioles look like Veitchia. Also, the crazy branching of the inflorescence looks like a Veitchia vs the neat broom look of the DA below.
 

[tim_brissy_13]

4 hours ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

Hmmm. I didn’t notice the leaflets but to me the crown shaft and petioles look like Veitchia. Also, the crazy branching of the inflorescence looks like a Veitchia vs the neat broom look of the DA below.
 

Yeah you’re right. D album is branched to one order so the inflo rules that out. At a glance everything looked like D album to me. If not D album or Veitchia I’m a bit stumped honestly.