Polar Vortex

[UK_Palms]

+6.2C / 43F here at 10pm. A strong Atlantic front has pushed through now relieving us of that horrid freeze and bringing us much milder maritime temps. Parts of Cornwall and Scotland are at 10C / 50F at 10pm now. You can see where this mild Atlantic front is still yet to reach the continent however.

 

While it appears to be salvation for us, it is also a bit of a trap. From freezing cold to hurricane force winds - a vicious Atlantic storm with 100mph gusts is about to plough into us on this weather front. So while it will be very mild, it will also bring damaging winds. I will have to strip all the covers off the bananas and palms before it hits tomorrow night. This will cap off a pretty crap week of weather here.

 

I’ll probably get 70mph gusts here in my inland location even. That’s almost as damaging as the freeze itself that we were having. Is it too much to ask for just some normal mild, wet winter weather!? 🙄

I’ll still take this forecast for the next 7-10 days over the nasty cold freezing crap we had lately!

Edited January 20 by UK_Palms

[MarcusH]

6 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

+6.2C / 43F here at 10pm. A strong Atlantic front has pushed through now relieving us of that horrid freeze and bringing us much milder maritime temps. Parts of Cornwall and Scotland are at 10C / 50F at 10pm now. You can see where this mild Atlantic front is still yet to reach the continent however.

 

While it appears to be salvation for us, it is also a bit of a trap. From freezing cold to hurricane force winds - a vicious Atlantic storm with 100mph gusts is about to plough into us on this weather front. So while it will be very mild, it will also bring damaging winds. I will have to strip all the covers off the bananas and palms before it hits tomorrow night. This will cap off a pretty crap week of weather here.

 

I’ll probably get 70mph gusts here in my inland location even. That’s almost as damaging as the freeze itself that we were having. Is it too much to ask for just some normal mild, wet winter weather!? 🙄

I’ll still take this forecast for the next 7-10 days over the nasty cold freezing crap we had lately!

You remember that conversation if it's not the freeze that kills a palm it's the wind or a disease.  I tied on a chair to my small Queen palm to make sure the wind won't knock it over.  

[Las Palmas Norte]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

I tied on a chair to my small Queen palm to make sure the wind won't knock it over.  

If it's those plastic deck chairs you're referring to, they do tip over easily in the wind. 😁

[BigBilly]

I mean it's looking terrible but for 10 F not too bad i don't think it's dead ? 

[RFun]

9 minutes ago, BigBilly said:

I mean it's looking terrible but for 10 F not too bad i don't think it's dead ? 

Doesn't look dead to me.  You have blankets around it.  I think it will be ok.  If it's a King Sago, they should be able to handle 10F or even a bit colder for short periods.  They may not look as aesthetic while in recovery though.

Edited January 21 by RFun

[BigBilly]

4 minutes ago, RFun said:

Doesn't look dead to me.  You have blankets around it.  I think it will be ok.  If it's a King Sago, they should be able to handle 10F or even a bit colder for short periods.  They may not look as aesthetic while in recovery though.

Yeah, I'm honestly surprised I expected it to fully be browned out but survive, But that one frond is completely green so far....for its first year in the ground it's looking very good... Hopefully it doesn't randomly die on me sometime in spring, I think it's a cycas revoluta 

[BeyondTheGarden]

I'm about to trade in my palms and bananas for Japanese maples and noble firs. 

Edit; in Washington the forecast was never off by more than 2-3 degrees.  Here I'm routinely 8-9 degrees colder than forecast. They called for 18, I got 9. 

[Allen]

41 minutes ago, BeyondTheGarden said:

I'm about to trade in my palms and bananas for Japanese maples and noble firs. 

Edit; in Washington the forecast was never off by more than 2-3 degrees.  Here I'm routinely 8-9 degrees colder than forecast. They called for 18, I got 9. 

Anytime you see the terms arctic air, polar etc this can happen

[EJPalm05]

My last day of cold. For now at least...

 

[RFun]

49 minutes ago, BeyondTheGarden said:

I'm about to trade in my palms and bananas for Japanese maples and noble firs. 

Edit; in Washington the forecast was never off by more than 2-3 degrees.  Here I'm routinely 8-9 degrees colder than forecast. They called for 18, I got 9. 

I'm guessing you are away from an area that has been developed very much.  Plus, you may be in an area of cold sink.  But, regardless, that forecast does look off.

[L.A.M.]

47 minutes ago, BeyondTheGarden said:

I'm about to trade in my palms and bananas for Japanese maples and noble firs. 

Edit; in Washington the forecast was never off by more than 2-3 degrees.  Here I'm routinely 8-9 degrees colder than forecast. They called for 18, I got 9. 

You don't have to give up like that! It just may be better to invest in an especially freeze-resistant hybrid like Sabal brazoriensis rather than Sabal palmetto or Trachycarpus fortunei if you want a trunking palm that can handle single-digits. As for the bananas, I strongly advise against them anyways because they're foreign and able to regrow from the roots, which seems like a potential invasive species; yet another reason I'm so determined to grow every sufficiently freeze-resistant native palm and yucca I can is to give buyers a more ethical option than bananas that's also evergreen to boot (which bananas aren't; they stay dormant for longer than pretty much anything other than that much-hated "Bermuda" grass that's also invasive).

[Dwarf Fan]

2 hours ago, BigBilly said:

I mean it's looking terrible but for 10 F not too bad i don't think it's dead ? 

It will come around Billy, my Moms looked much worse and it came back. 

[_nevi]

On 1/16/2024 at 9:44 AM, knikfar said:

Those specific fronts may not move but other parts of the south get their fair share of record cold to. The winter of 2018 brought a low of 4f here in Raleigh. In fact, we've had single digit temps in four of the last 10 winters after a streak of 13 winters with no single digits. 

The Arctic is indeed the bane of us all in North America. Even in the Western US at times, as we see from the PNW members on this thread.

Edited January 21 by _nevi

[computadude]

I removed the cover from the trees this morning.. The washingtonia robustas that were wrapped all show burn marks on their fronds. The one I left uncovered looks so much better. Next time I'll probably just wrap the washingtonias' trunks with reflectix and don't bother wrapping the whole palm.

The three queens look very good as nothing had happened (they were wrapped and heated with pipe heater). The fourth queen that was only wrapped (no heater) also looks pretty good. it only has very minor burn marks.

[RFun]

2 hours ago, L.A.M. said:

You don't have to give up like that! It just may be better to invest in an especially freeze-resistant hybrid like Sabal brazoriensis rather than Sabal palmetto or Trachycarpus fortunei if you want a trunking palm that can handle single-digits. As for the bananas, I strongly advise against them anyways because they're foreign and able to regrow from the roots, which seems like a potential invasive species; yet another reason I'm so determined to grow every sufficiently freeze-resistant native palm and yucca I can is to give buyers a more ethical option than bananas that's also evergreen to boot (which bananas aren't; they stay dormant for longer than pretty much anything other than that much-hated "Bermuda" grass that's also invasive).

Nah, no need to give up.  Single digits aren't going to be very frequent in that area.

[Allen]

Update.  And the protected big palms are coming in part 2.  They look promising.  We had a low of -6F and 3F last night.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBf_-E2ZlAc

 

Edited January 21 by Allen

[RFun]

9 minutes ago, Allen said:

Update.  And the protected big palms are coming in part 2.  They look promising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBf_-E2ZlAc

 

Sounds pretty good.  I would have added protection myself, if I were you.  Looks like you spent a lot on those palms.  Anyway, that is a lot of time spent under freezing.  Looks like over 8 days.

Edited January 21 by RFun

[Robert Cade Ross]

My friend Khoa’s palms - just a handful of what he has;) 

over in humble Tx area zone 9A/B 

no heat was added just frost cloth aftermath of two nights under 20° majesty Bismarck Archontophoenix cunninghamiana bamboo palm the smaller trunks are stiff tallest ones are toast . 

 

[AcerPALMatum]

29 minutes ago, computadude said:

I removed the cover from the trees this morning.. The washingtonia robustas that were wrapped all show burn marks on their fronds. The one I left uncovered looks so much better. Next time I'll probably just wrap the washingtonias' trunks with reflectix and don't bother wrapping the whole palm.

The three queens look very good as nothing had happened (they were wrapped and heated with pipe heater). The fourth queen that was only wrapped (no heater) also looks pretty good. it only has very minor burn marks.

I'm also in the FWB area, my queen sailed through the 20F without any damage visible so far. Washies also have absolutely no damage. I think you could probably get away without protecting washies at all here unless we're getting record cold.

[Allen]

Protected Palms uncovered today.  Major success!  I'm happy! For those that say mini lights don't work! -6F lows!  Unwrapping the rest tomorrow.

Trachy - frost cloth and a tarp -  just 100 mini's in frond area

Trachy - frost cloth and a tower heater cover

7' Palmetto - 100 mini lights with frost cloth , then a tower heater cover

s

Birmingham - 100 mini lights and 3 layers frost cloth

B

Louisiana- 10' cover and one 50 watt spotlight on ground aimed up

Edited January 21 by Allen

[Paradise Found]

Well the frozen vortex is long gone for a few days back into the low 50’s and I did see 59f next week.

My new place must be 8b since I only got to 16f- 17f on the coldest night, had less than an inch while on the hills 500+ elevation  received 7 inches. Had one day of ice but didi not stick to trees. Had three days below freezing to 25f.  But all n all I feel pretty lucky cause some had it worse like Portland and northern Washington.  

Edited January 21 by Paradise Found

[BeyondTheGarden]

1 hour ago, Paradise Found said:

Well the frozen vortex is long gone for a few days back into the low 50’s and I did see 59f next week.

My new place must be 8b since I only got to 16f- 17f on the coldest night, had less than an inch while on the hills 500+ elevation  received 7 inches. Had one day of ice but didi not stick to trees. Had three days below freezing to 25f.  But all n all I feel pretty lucky cause some had it worse like Portland and northern Washington.  

You moved too?  Man all the PNW palmtalkers are moving. 

[thyerr01]

@Cade I'm amazed that Majesty looks as good as it does. 

[Robert Cade Ross]

43 minutes ago, thyerr01 said:

@Cade I'm amazed that Majesty looks as good as it does. 

Same haha 

[Paradise Found]

1 hour ago, BeyondTheGarden said:

You moved too?  Man all the PNW palmtalkers are moving. 

I’m still here just one county down.  From we’re you use to live, in apartment now.  I sold most of my rare stuff to Matt in Seattle including the big Dicksonia tree fern.  Wanted to be closer to the family.  My other plants I gave to my family members. My back and knees gave out on me so taking it easy I kept my potted collection some of the rare stuff anyways.  I do not miss the city life. Lol.  

Edited January 22 by Paradise Found

[NCFM]

11 hours ago, BigBilly said:

I mean it's looking terrible but for 10 F not too bad i don't think it's dead ? 

It'll come right back in the spring.  Mine survived 5 degrees last winter with only a frost cloth over it.  Completely defoliated, but it sent out a new flush in May. 

[ChicagoPalma]

11 hours ago, computadude said:

I removed the cover from the trees this morning.. The washingtonia robustas that were wrapped all show burn marks on their fronds. The one I left uncovered looks so much better. Next time I'll probably just wrap the washingtonias' trunks with reflectix and don't bother wrapping the whole palm.

The three queens look very good as nothing had happened (they were wrapped and heated with pipe heater). The fourth queen that was only wrapped (no heater) also looks pretty good. it only has very minor burn marks.

Looks more fried.

[ChicagoPalma]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

Same haha 

Majesty was looking awfully good!

7 hours ago, Allen said:

Protected Palms uncovered today.  Major success!  I'm happy! For those that say mini lights don't work! -6F lows!  Unwrapping the rest tomorrow.

Trachy - frost cloth and a tarp -  just 100 mini's in frond area

Trachy - frost cloth and a tower heater cover

7' Palmetto - 100 mini lights with frost cloth , then a tower heater cover

s

Birmingham - 100 mini lights and 3 layers frost cloth

B

Louisiana- 10' cover and one 50 watt spotlight on ground aimed up

Allen my palm endured -22F with a windchill of almost above -60F!!! We haven't had this record cold since 2018 winter and windchill since 2014 or lower! Excuse me for my profanity but my father said the mini lights barely emit anything, it f*cking did! That palm was so cozy it was 45F in the box during our coldest night!!! Might as well plant a queen or mule and build a box for it, probably will survive with that box, although the queen would need light.

Edited January 22 by ChicagoPalma

[_nevi]

On 1/18/2024 at 6:16 PM, Xenon said:

I'll give up growing palms the day Sabal palmetto or mexicana gets damaged in Houston. At least for a few years 😛

I wonder how much into the single-digits °Fs (or negatives) those two species can take. I think earlier posts on this forum showed documented survivors in DFW, even after the -2°F that they experienced in Feb 21' — what I'm unsure of is whether or not the specimen required any protection, microclimates, etc.

Edited January 22 by _nevi

[MarcusH]

On 1/21/2024 at 12:38 AM, Las Palmas Norte said:

If it's those plastic deck chairs you're referring to, they do tip over easily in the wind. 😁

No my wife has chairs made of metal lol . Sure plastic ones won't do the job. I also put a small rock on the seating area.

[JohnT]

So the lowest temperature from this attic blast for me is 20 degrees yesterday morning which is the same low from Christmas Eve of 2022. 
 

[PaPalmTrees]

Last night we had our coldest temperature it got down to 0° hopefully this is the last of the cold.   Here’s a photo of the forecast for the week

[Paradise Found]

2 hours ago, MarcusH said:

No my wife has chairs made of metal lol . Sure plastic ones won't do the job. I also put a small rock on the seating area.

Put a concrete block in the seat or bucket of water. Those should keep it in place.  lol. 
 

[Delano]

4 hours ago, JohnT said:

So the lowest temperature from this attic blast for me is 20 degrees yesterday morning which is the same low from Christmas Eve of 2022. 
 

My lowest so far has been 19 degrees in Fayetteville, NC. I’m about 1 mile from the airport. 

[Allen]

Super Happy with the way my protected palms turned out this year.  No wind let the protection do the trick.  Basically mini lights with frost cloth and a extra cover over them saved the palms from a 28 year low of -6F.  Take a look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA88LygayJs

 

[DTS]

I thought it would be worse in my area, but it only got down to -1F, which is usually the normal ult. low temps.

Edited January 22 by DTS1

[EJPalm05]

low for the freeze for me was 14.9F -9.5C Which is ok for me. have to see what my plants are like.

[Leelanau Palms]

1 hour ago, Allen said:

Super Happy with the way my protected palms turned out this year.  No wind let the protection do the trick.  Basically mini lights with frost cloth and a extra cover over them saved the palms from a 28 year low of -6F.  Take a look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA88LygayJs

 

Great post vortex videos @Allen ! Was especially stoked to see the Mule uncovered.

[Allen]

33 minutes ago, Leelanau Palms said:

Great post vortex videos @Allen ! Was especially stoked to see the Mule uncovered.

Thanks it will have to be recovered if temps go around 20F or below but not as extensively as in this past week event.  Currently the forecast shows us in the clear thru Feb 5th but you never know. 

Edited January 22 by Allen

[Sabal King]

1 hour ago, Allen said:

Super Happy with the way my protected palms turned out this year.  No wind let the protection do the trick.  Basically mini lights with frost cloth and a extra cover over them saved the palms from a 28 year low of -6F.  Take a look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA88LygayJs

 

Great to see that things didn't get nuked.. let's hope we are all done for the year.