Polar Vortex

[Robert Cade Ross]

Found this old pic of all the robustas first summer post 2021 freeze 🥴

[MarcusH]

16 hours ago, Cade said:

Found this old pic of all the robustas first summer post 2021 freeze 🥴

Do you know the name of that street ? Looks beautiful I hope it still kind of looks like that.

 

[Robert Cade Ross]

Just now, MarcusH said:

Do you know the name of that street ? Looks beautiful I hope it still kind of looks like that.

 

Sadly all but one of those robustas have been removed lol …. It’s just tons of palmettos now 🤷‍♂️

[MarcusH]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

Sadly all but one of those robustas have been removed lol …. It’s just tons of palmettos now 🤷‍♂️

Well at least they didn't replant Robustas anymore and replaced those with very cold hardy Palmettos .  It's a better choice down the road .

[Xenon]

29 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Well at least they didn't replant Robustas anymore and replaced those with very cold hardy Palmettos .  It's a better choice down the road .

 But none of the robustas were dead 😆. Not a replanting, they just downright murdered a ton of perfectly fine robustas and replaced them with boring old palmettos. Yawnnnnnn 

Edited February 23 by Xenon

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

 But none of the robustas were dead 😆. Not a replanting, they just downright murdered a ton of perfectly fine robustas and replaced them with boring old palmettos. Yawnnnnnn 

Booooo lol why the dislike towards Sabals ? The most reliable palm for Houston!!! EVERGREEN.  Maybe they got too tall I don't know?  

Edited February 23 by MarcusH

[Sabal King]

1 minute ago, MarcusH said:

Booooo lol why the dislike towards Sabals ? The most reliable palm for Houston!!! EVERGREEN.  Maybe they got too tall I don't know?  

They'll be wishing they had more Sabals the next time anything cold comes lol and there aren't giant toothpicks out in the city on display

[Xenon]

11 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Booooo lol why the dislike towards Sabals ? The most reliable palm for Houston!!! EVERGREEN.  Maybe they got too tall I don't know?  

 

9 minutes ago, Sabal King said:

They'll be wishing they had more Sabals the next time anything cold comes lol and there aren't giant toothpicks out in the city on display

All of those robustas survived all of the prior freezes of the last few years, it's a shame they survived all of that and were still removed. 

The problem with Sabal palmetto is you can grow it 100, 200 miles north of Houston and everywhere else in the southeast  Nothing special or iconic about it. The iconic thing about Houston (especially this southeast area of town near NASA) is you can enter from any direction and it's the first place you start seeing skinny Washies until at least near Corpus.

Plus this was a mass planting of 50 or so VERY uniform pencil thin 110% robusta. It's a shame. 

Edited February 23 by Xenon

[RFun]

8 minutes ago, Xenon said:

 

All of those robustas survived all of the prior freezes of the last few years, it's a shame they survived all of that and were still removed. 

The problem with Sabal palmetto is you can grow it 100, 200 miles north of Houston and everywhere else in the southeast  Nothing special or iconic about it. The iconic thing about Houston (especially this southeast area of town near NASA) is you can enter from any direction and it's the first place you start seeing skinny Washies until at least near Corpus.

Plus this was a mass planting of 50 or so VERY uniform pencil thin 110% robusta. It's a shame. 

It's pretty crazy in certain areas.  In some areas like Shreveport, the Sabal Palmettos are treated like rare, royalty.  Then you go down to Baton Rouge and they are looking for anything BUT Sabal species lol.  I'm quite surprised there aren't more Sabal Palmettos in the Shreveport area.  But then again, Sabal Palmettos aren't exactly heavily marketed in that area.  Most people are planting traditional Southern or Deep South plants.

Edited February 23 by RFun

[MarcusH]

5 minutes ago, Xenon said:

 

All of those robustas survived all of the prior freezes of the last few years, it's a shame they survived all of that and were still removed. 

The problem with Sabal palmetto is you can grow it 100, 200 miles north of Houston and everywhere else in the southeast  Nothing special or iconic about it. The iconic thing about Houston (especially this southeast area of town near NASA) is you can enter from any direction and it's the first place you start seeing skinny Washies until at least near Corpus.

Plus this was a mass planting of 50 or so VERY uniform pencil thin 110% robusta. It's a shame. 

Each to their own Jonathan I'm sure many people like Sabal palms including myself. Sabal palmetto is Florida's iconic palm tree and over there I think Washies look kind of weird but that's just me. I do like Washies , growing 5 myself but if money wouldn't be an issue I would replace those with Sabal palmettos or mexicana because I like the looks of it. Sometimes healthy palms get removed for a specific reason . Whoever plants those palms is probably not an enthusiast ,they see palms more as decoration.  But interesting if they were all alive why did they remove it ? Gotta be a reason behind it.

[RFun]

7 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Each to their own Jonathan I'm sure many people like Sabal palms including myself. Sabal palmetto is Florida's iconic palm tree and over there I think Washies look kind of weird but that's just me. I do like Washies , growing 5 myself but if money wouldn't be an issue I would replace those with Sabal palmettos or mexicana because I like the looks of it. Sometimes healthy palms get removed for a specific reason . Whoever plants those palms is probably not an enthusiast ,they see palms more as decoration.  But interesting if they were all alive why did they remove it ? Gotta be a reason behind it.

If you go to the unpopulated areas of Florida's Sand Hill region, you will get a glimpse of how the land once was before all of the development.  Lots of Sabal minor and Sabal Palmetto species.  Of course, one of this area's unique examples would be Sabal Etonia.

Edited February 23 by RFun

[MarcusH]

8 minutes ago, RFun said:

It's pretty crazy in certain areas.  In some areas like Shreveport, the Sabal Palmettos are treated like rare, royalty.  Then you go down to Baton Rouge and they are looking for anything BUT Sabal species lol.  I'm quite surprised there aren't more Sabal Palmettos in the Shreveport area.  But then again, Sabal Palmettos aren't exactly heavily marketed in that area.  Most people are planting traditional Southern or Deep South plants.

If you want a decent sized Sabal ,let's say anything taller than 5 feet of clear trunk , nurseries are going to charge you big bucks for it.  One time I called for a quote on a 6 footer Sabal Mexicana . With installation and tax I would end up paying $2500 . IF my Robusta ever dies on me I might do it but I honestly don't want to spend that much money on a palm tree right now.  I already got 5 Washies planted .  But anyway Washies are easy to grow and they're fast growers unlike Sabals. But let's be honest Sabals are the most reliable palm here in Texas and they stay evergreen in most parts in the South . My Robusta defoliated twice in 2 years . 

[RFun]

3 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

If you want a decent sized Sabal ,let's say anything taller than 5 feet of clear trunk , nurseries are going to charge you big bucks for it.  One time I called for a quote on a 6 footer Sabal Mexicana . With installation and tax I would end up paying $2500 . IF my Robusta ever dies on me I might do it but I honestly don't want to spend that much money on a palm tree right now.  I already got 5 Washies planted .  But anyway Washies are easy to grow and they're fast growers unlike Sabals. But let's be honest Sabals are the most reliable palm here in Texas and they stay evergreen in most parts in the South . My Robusta defoliated twice in 2 years . 

Yes, those taller palms are not an easy task as far as planting goes.  You can get some decent sized younger Sabals for a decent price if you shop around.

[MarcusH]

1 minute ago, RFun said:

If you go to the unpopulated areas of Florida's Sand Hill region, you will get a glimpse of how the land once was before all of the development.  Lots of Sabal minor and Sabal Palmetto species.  Of course, one of this area's unique examples would be Sabal Etonia.

I know Sabal Palmetto is Florida's palm number one as well as a lot of other regions in the Deep South and Southeast . They're super tough and withstand every hurricane . Here in San Antonio they were the only palms that laughed at Palmaggedon.  Too many Washingtonia Robustas died all over in Texas in the last 45 years . It shows they aren't as reliable.  One of my palm buddies is from SoCal he said they don't know what spear pull really is lol. We do know in Texas.  

[Xenon]

17 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Each to their own Jonathan I'm sure many people like Sabal palms including myself. Sabal palmetto is Florida's iconic palm tree and over there I think Washies look kind of weird but that's just me. I do like Washies , growing 5 myself but if money wouldn't be an issue I would replace those with Sabal palmettos or mexicana because I like the looks of it. Sometimes healthy palms get removed for a specific reason . Whoever plants those palms is probably not an enthusiast ,they see palms more as decoration.  But interesting if they were all alive why did they remove it ? Gotta be a reason behind it.

I grow Sabal too😄, hope they get giant someday. It's not that I don't like Sabal palmetto (but S. mexicana is muuuuch better looking, unbiased opinion ), I'm more bummed the Washies were removed. It was a beautiful RGV-esque half mile stretch. 

But hey any palm is better than no palm 😅

Edited February 23 by Xenon

[MarcusH]

2 minutes ago, RFun said:

Yes, those taller palms are not an easy task as far as planting goes.  You can get some decent sized younger Sabals for a decent price if you shop around.

But I wouldn't want to start growing a Sabal that has 1 foot of clear trunk.  I'm in my mid 40s I'm not going to be around forever.  

[RFun]

Just now, MarcusH said:

I know Sabal Palmetto is Florida's palm number one as well as a lot of other regions in the Deep South and Southeast . They're super tough and withstand every hurricane . Here in San Antonio they were the only palms that laughed at Palmaggedon.  Too many Washingtonia Robustas died all over in Texas in the last 45 years . It shows they aren't as reliable.  One of my palm buddies is from SoCal he said they don't know what spear pull really is lol. We do know in Texas.  

While Robustas are nice, they are next to impossible to protect when they get too tall.  I would feel comfortable with Robustas in the Houston area.  Not so much in the San Antonio area.  But, anyway, Filferas or Filibusta can fill that void as well.

[RFun]

2 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

But I wouldn't want to start growing a Sabal that has 1 foot of clear trunk.  I'm in my mid 40s I'm not going to be around forever.  

Well, it's up to the individual planter.  I just like planting things.  I really don't care if I see it mature or not.  You'll find that certain Sabal Palmettos will grow faster than others.

Edited February 23 by RFun

[MarcusH]

Just now, Xenon said:

I grow Sabal too😄, hope they get giant someday. It's not that I don't like Sabal palmetto (but S. mexicana is muuuuch better looking, unbiased opinion ), I'm more bummed the Washies were removed. It was a beautiful RGV-esque half mile stretch. 

There you go Jonathan lol.  Don't hide your Sabals in front of me. Kind of reminds me why they removed all Phoenix Dactylifera in front of the Tobin Center when some of them were actually revocering . I guess they're looking for palms that don't grow as tall as Washies and are more reliable.  Just a guess. 

[RFun]

4 minutes ago, Xenon said:

I grow Sabal too😄, hope they get giant someday. It's not that I don't like Sabal palmetto (but S. mexicana is muuuuch better looking, unbiased opinion ), I'm more bummed the Washies were removed. It was a beautiful RGV-esque half mile stretch. 

Yes, that's a travesty they removed those Robustas.  I've seen other areas around airports where they would plant palms and then remove them like a few years later.  There was absolutely no reason for it.  And whoever made that decision should be called out for wasting resources.

Edited February 23 by RFun

[MarcusH]

2 minutes ago, RFun said:

While Robustas are nice, they are next to impossible to protect when they get too tall.  I would feel comfortable with Robustas in the Houston area.  Not so much in the San Antonio area.  But, anyway, Filferas or Filibusta can fill that void as well.

You're right.  San Antonio gets a little colder in winter compared to Houston on average but even in Houston the record lows will kill Robustas as history shows .  It's a hit or miss in both cities.  There will be the day where I need to cut down my Robusta anyway .  Fine with me I didn't know much about growing palms in my area . 

[Xenon]

Well anyways here are my front yard Sabals...S. casuarium in the front and S. guatemalensis in the back.

You'd think something native to the Bay of Campeche/mainland Caribbean would at least be as hardy as something from an island but evidently not 😆 (but it is going to recover just fine). 

[MarcusH]

6 minutes ago, RFun said:

Well, it's up to the individual planter.  I just like planting things.  I really don't care if I see it mature or not.

Of course I didn't mean it's a bad idea to plant young Sabals don't get me wrong. I have the problem that I'm inpatient.  Always been like this unfortunately lol. 

[RFun]

1 minute ago, MarcusH said:

You're right.  San Antonio gets a little colder in winter compared to Houston on average but even in Houston the record lows will kill Robustas as history shows .  It's a hit or miss in both cities.  There will be the day where I need to cut down my Robusta anyway .  Fine with me I didn't know much about growing palms in my area . 

I like the odds better in the Houston area.  That's all.  Just my personal preference.  Closer to water areas or having a nice microclimate area near a building doesn't hurt either.  But, anyway, I'd at least be testing out a few Robustas in the San Antonio area just for the heck of it.

[Robert Cade Ross]

Forgot to post this the other day but while I was at moody gardens I discovered what’s left of a once massive banyan tree (upper coast standards ) attempting to make a return ….. peep the second one that unfortunately couldn’t recover at all 

[MarcusH]

15 hours ago, RFun said:

I like the odds better in the Houston area.  That's all.  Just my personal preference.  Closer to water areas or having a nice microclimate area near a building doesn't hurt either.  But, anyway, I'd at least be testing out a few Robustas in the San Antonio area just for the heck of it.

I would assume that most Robustas we get here at the Big Box stores in Texas aren't 100 % pure so I expect them to be a little bit cold hardier .Houston has a better chance to keep Robustas alive longer , that's a fact ! Here in San Antonio I wouldn't bet my money on Robustas it's a hit or miss kind of palm whenever we get 7b/8a winters .  We do have options though.  Plant Filiferas! Most palms I see outside of downtown SA are either Filiferas or Sabals Mexicana / Palmetto . 

[Robert Cade Ross]

 

 

 

[MarcusH]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

 

IMG_0196.mov  

 

IMG_0196.mov  

 

Won't work 

[Robert Cade Ross]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

Won't work 

User error hahah

[Robert Cade Ross]

Update on the Ribbon palms in Friendswood these saw 18-19° temp range . Overall impressed I need a bunch now haha one is loaded with developing inflorescence 👀.inflorescences 

[Chester B]

Saw these palms ar Natius nursery last week. I saw them in December and they were definitely burnt. Appear to be a Sabal of some sort. They are pretty beefy, but if they were Mexicana there would be no damage. Look like causiarum to me. Anybody actually know what they are?

[Robert Cade Ross]

7 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Saw these palms ar Natius nursery last week. I saw them in December and they were definitely burnt. Appear to be a Sabal of some sort. They are pretty beefy, but if they were Mexicana there would be no damage. Look like causiarum to me. Anybody actually know what they are?

They look like the two growing in a ditch next to my house lol they always burn in our recent bad freezes . 👀

[Xenon]

Seeing lots of queens planted last year near Bush Airport pushing green growth! The 3rd/4th coldest winter in over 30+ years can't even kill newly planted queens in "north" Houston and damage is even lighter further south to minimal/no damage by the coast.

I have a good feeling about this....in 30-40+ years Houston will surpass the 2020 look, we might even go higher for longer than the all time high point in 2009?! 🤪

Plant those queens (and royals, kings, triangles and foxtails, half kidding only) 😄

 

Edited February 26 by Xenon

[Robert Cade Ross]

38 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Seeing lots of queens planted last year near Bush Airport pushing green growth! The 3rd/4th coldest winter in over 30+ years can't even kill newly planted queens in "north" Houston and damage is even lighter further south to minimal/no damage by the coast.

I have a good feeling about this....in 30-40+ years Houston will surpass the 2020 look, we might even go higher for longer than the all time high point in 2009?! 🤪

Plant those queens (and royals, kings, triangles and foxtails, half kidding only) 😄

 

I’m about to start a bunch of 9B-9A palms from seed hoping for the best next decade or so 🤞

[MarcusH]

On 2/26/2024 at 4:57 PM, Xenon said:

Seeing lots of queens planted last year near Bush Airport pushing green growth! The 3rd/4th coldest winter in over 30+ years can't even kill newly planted queens in "north" Houston and damage is even lighter further south to minimal/no damage by the coast.

I have a good feeling about this....in 30-40+ years Houston will surpass the 2020 look, we might even go higher for longer than the all time high point in 2009?! 🤪

Plant those queens (and royals, kings, triangles and foxtails, half kidding only) 😄

 

OMG really Jonathan.  The 1980s and 2021 wasn't a reality check for you ? Are you even around for that long ? If Houston would be so tropical I would see Royals and Queens all over in large amounts like I would see in Florida.  NEVER seen it ,even close like that in Houston. Before I moved to Texas I've spent a month in Houston back in 2012 . Looking at my Facebook achievements from back then other than Washies , Sabals , Date palms and "some" Queens here and there nothing like I would see in SoCal or most parts in Florida.  I know you don't like to hear what I say lol ( I hope you don't take it the wrong way ) but that's the truth. Houston isn't a place to grow Royals or anything 10a zone wise it gets too cold and 10 or even 15 years of growths isn't really a success it's just a waste of tax payers money if they're planted in public and have to be removed.  What you do on your own property is a different thing.  History keeps repeating and more severe hard freezes are on the horizon for all of us in Texas believe it or not.  Queens and 10a zone palms aren't reliable in Houston probably never will in your lifetime.  Look at history man , not only the last 20 years before 2021. Hello wake up lol. 

[RFun]

On 2/26/2024 at 5:57 PM, Xenon said:

Seeing lots of queens planted last year near Bush Airport pushing green growth! The 3rd/4th coldest winter in over 30+ years can't even kill newly planted queens in "north" Houston and damage is even lighter further south to minimal/no damage by the coast.

I have a good feeling about this....in 30-40+ years Houston will surpass the 2020 look, we might even go higher for longer than the all time high point in 2009?! 🤪

Plant those queens (and royals, kings, triangles and foxtails, half kidding only) 😄

 

You really never know.  Keeping in mind that there have only been a small amount planted in that area compared to places like Florida.  The more that are planted (from different genetics), the more is going to be revealed about hardiness of the Queens.  I would be keeping the Queen plantings to those based on private dollars.  A nice courtyard or spot by a lake would be ideal.

Edited February 28 by RFun

[Xenon]

20 minutes ago, RFun said:

You really never know.  Keeping in mind that there have only been a small amount planted in that area compared to places like Florida.  

That's not true at all. There were a million queens here in 2020, no joke. Common landscape plant 

[MarcusH]

1 minute ago, Xenon said:

That's not true at all. There were a million queens here in 2020, no joke. Common landscape plant 

Did you count them by yourself?  In 2021 Queens weren't really planted all over . I stayed a month in Deer Park . Seen it all from Pearland to Clear Lake nope nothing like what you said.  Like I saw some of them here and there but not like you would see compared to Central Florida,  South Florida and SoCal.  Hobby Airport saw 15f in 2021 , 17f in 2022 and 19f in 2018 ? I doubt those temperatures keep Queens alive . 1980s forget about it , Robustas wouldn't even have a chance . Those freeze in the 1980s in Texas literally nuked the area . As much as I want to believe that we're in a warm cycle but those last few winters showed me what survives and what not.  

[Xenon]

43 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Look at history man , not only the last 20 years before 2021. Hello wake up lol. 

You mean the 30 years before 2021 (look at history man) 😆

Are you going to claim queens don't grow in New Orleans and Jacksonville when the cold comes for them? Queens 100% can't grow there because all of the 40 foot corpses say so lol 

 

3 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Did you count them by yourself?  In 2021 Queens weren't really planted all over . I stayed a month in Deer Park . Seen it all from Pearland to Clear Lake nope nothing like what you said.  

Yep, everywhere. Go look at aerial footage of Hurricane Harvey and you'll see plenty. I've lived here all my life and always took the queens for granted, just another common palm out of the 6 or 7 palms that people plant here lol 

Not interested in posting back and forth with you Marcus. The big and beautiful queens will prove you wrong eventually 😄

[RFun]

7 minutes ago, Xenon said:

You mean the 30 years before 2021 (look at history man) 😆

Are you going to claim queens don't grow in New Orleans and Jacksonville when the cold comes for them? Queens 100% can't grow there because all of the 40 foot corpses say so lol 

 

Yep, everywhere. Go look at aerial footage of Hurricane Harvey and you'll see plenty. I've lived here all my life and always took the queens for granted, just another common palm out of the 6 or 7 palms that people plant here lol 

Not interested in posting back and forth with you Marcus. The big and beautiful queens will prove you wrong eventually 😄

Well, they still grow them in New Orleans and Jacksonville, FL.  Protection will likely need to be added once in a great while.