Polar Vortex

[Foxpalms]

This may be the end for the Norfolk island pine in Tofino BC.

 

[Las Palmas Norte]

2 hours ago, MarcusH said:

I don't know why it doesn't get that cold but I think Washies in Vancouver look pretty cool with the mountains around.  By the way how accurate are these weather stations for a budget ? 

The palms publicly planted in Vancouver are not Washingtonia, but Trachycarpus and some Chamaerops.

 

Weather stations vary depending on the feature they have. I keep it rather simple and I'm not connected to the internet for those purposes.

[MarcusH]

25 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

The palms publicly planted in Vancouver are not Washingtonia, but Trachycarpus and some Chamaerops.

 

Weather stations vary depending on the feature they have. I keep it rather simple and I'm not connected to the internet for those purposes.

Sorry my bad but the trachies look beautiful especially in that picture.  

I just want a simple weather station that gives me an accurate temperature and humidity.  

[Arecaceus]

17 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Sorry my bad but the trachies look beautiful especially in that picture.  

I just want a simple weather station that gives me an accurate temperature and humidity.  

To check for accuracy other than having multiple sensors from different manufacturers the best thing are still analog oldskool thermometers and hygrometers. Sometimes the best ones are actually the cheapest.

[MarcusH]

55 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

To check for accuracy other than having multiple sensors from different manufacturers the best thing are still analog oldskool thermometers and hygrometers. Sometimes the best ones are actually the cheapest.

So just buy a 4 dollar analog thermometer for accuracy?  Sounds good to me.  

[Foxpalms]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

So just buy a 4 dollar analog thermometer for accuracy?  Sounds good to me.  

A digital one that shows the high and low that day wouldn't be a bad idea either. However I would recommend putting it around 1.8m or 6ft above the ground. If you can in a Stevenson screen or a makeshift one. 

[jwitt]

@MarcusH

You can put the thermometer(sensor) in a styrofoam(insulated) with well stirred equal parts ice and water.  That would be 32f/0c.

Good calibration point when working with freezing temperatures.

[Las Palmas Norte]

4 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

This may be the end for the Norfolk island pine in Tofino BC.

 

Where ever that's from shows 20.5°F  as a low in Tofino. Environment Canada shows an even lower recorded temperature, 18.5°F. 

I'm unfamiliar with the tree you speak of, but it's been 30 years since I drove thru there despite it only being 3 hrs away.

Edited January 14 by Las Palmas Norte

[Paradise Found]

One more super cold night before the heat slowly warms us up. Mid week temps will be back in the 40’s & after that back into the 50’s.  
Yesterday I got another feeder so they can be switched back and forth. I made the food stronger for them and they love it. Got the idea from news on tv.  
Seen red ones green ones too. I have so many they’re drinking pretty hard. One strong birds. The way they can lower their body heat and heart rate is amazing. 
 

Edited January 14 by Paradise Found

[KsLouisiana]

On 1/11/2024 at 11:03 AM, Xenon said:

They dropped like flies this summer from the heat and drought. Entire rows of them...so much for being "native" 😂. Never seen so many dead magnolias in my life

Man even here in southwest Louisiana the magnolias are all over in the woods. Some of those even died from the drought. That is not typical at all just the worst drought in history. 

[Foxpalms]

2 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Where ever that's from shows 20.5°F  as a low in Tofino. Environment Canada shows an even lower recorded temperature, 18.5°F. 

I'm unfamiliar with the tree you speak of, but it's been 30 years since I drove thru there despite it only being 3 hrs away.

That's probably situated at the airport which is a colder area. The Norfolk Island pine isn't particularly hardy a solid 9b plant. Tofino typically has mild winters compared to the rest of Vancouver island hence why it has survived there but it wouldn't suprise me if this kills it. Here in the UK I have only ever seen them planted in the ground in 9b and zone 10a and b areas. One a while ago was planted in a 9a part of west London which got killed whilst the ones in 9b-10a central London were all fine. I'm pretty sure there are also some canary island date palms planted in the ground there those probably survived.

Edited January 14 by Foxpalms

[Swolte]

And here we go!

According to the latest predictions we may look at 70+ hours below, or close to, freezing. Extreme lows have been adjusted up somewhat to 17F so that is good.  Despite the lack of cloud cover, I am probably not going to hit the teens in my yard. This is a similar pattern to what we had in '21 but just 10-15F less extreme.

I have protected everything I wanted to and confident that all palms will survive. Note that I didn't lose any palms in '21. I even wrapped some Sabals who probably don't need it (Bald Island, Causiarum, urus, etc...), just to not set them back as much. My only concern, given that we had heavy rains not too long ago, is to leave things wrapped for too long and allow fungal disease to set in.   

According to the forecast, I can start the unwrapping party the following weekend. I surely hope that's it for winter this year, though... I am not sure I'll be having the time to wrap it all again!

Good luck everyone! 

[UK_Palms]

Temperatures look to have trended milder for Texas in the coming days/nights. Still pretty cold though nonetheless.

 

Portland, Oregon is getting smashed. Damn. About -10C / 14F and snowing currently. Is @Chester B still living there, or did he move to Houston? These are only 9pm temps as well. They are going to get absolutely nuked tonight. 

GFS has trended colder, especially for the European continent next week. These are 6am temperatures on the 20th January.

 

Milder air reaches us on Sunday night, but central Europe still gripped by the freeze. This will need close observation.

 

21 hours ago, PalmsNC said:

Ehh, those oceanic warm zones don't feel right to me. Sure, zone 9 or 10 but when it's 30s and 40s all winter with 0 sun and 0 UV and then 60s and 70s with clouds in summertime with a few warmer days.... idk, doesn't feel like a zone 9. I think Australians use a different system where they factor in heat as well. Sure you can grow some palms albeit slowly in these oceanic zones but what's the point of palms if the weather never even feels tropical? Western Europe has also largely lucked out on any crazy cold for going on 15 years now.

December was mostly 50's F here and there are tentative signs of 60's F later this month after we get through next week. Also the idea that we have 0 sun and 0 UV is just straight up an exaggeration. The UK isn't Scandinavia or Alaska. We have about 8 hours of daylight right now and UV is around the 2/3 mark already. The sun was shining brightly this morning.

Regarding the lack of 'crazy cold' in western Europe, well we actually had it pretty bad last winter. Parts of London saw their lowest minima in over 30 years, so we had a pretty bad winter 12 months ago, which was almost on par with the exceptionally bad winter of 2010/11 for London and southeast England. It was the 2nd worst winter of my lifetime. So the idea that we have "lucked out for going on 15 years" is a bit of a myth.

But ultimately, any proper, proper cold is declining due to warmer sea temperatures that help moderate the airmass and due to background warming in general. Any polar air masses that do come down just lack the punch that they used to deliver say 20, 50 or 100 years ago. Where I am, January is actually now 1.3C / 3F warmer than it was just 20 years ago looking at the data. So there has clearly been a fair bit of warming going on, which is pretty pronounced since the 1980's especialy.

Edited January 14 by UK_Palms

[Xenon]

LOL NWS has central Houston at "only" 25F for two nights, which would barely hang on to 9B. But far from the teens coldpocalypse the media has been pushing....

Even my west Houston suburb has been upgraded to 21F and 22F. I'm now regretting chopping off the leaves of my queen palm 🤬

[Robert Cade Ross]

4 minutes ago, Xenon said:

LOL NWS has central Houston at "only" 25F for two nights, which would barely hang on to 9B. But far from the teens coldpocalypse the media has been pushing....

Even my west Houston suburb has been upgraded to 21F and 22F. I'm now regretting chopping off the leaves of my queen palm 🤬

lol they will be back in 8 weeks 🤪🤪

[Robert Cade Ross]

Anyone interested in living in the panhandle of Texas ? Nice and tropical 1° 🤩🤩🤩 currently….

[KsLouisiana]

14 minutes ago, Xenon said:

LOL NWS has central Houston at "only" 25F for two nights, which would barely hang on to 9B. But far from the teens coldpocalypse the media has been pushing....

Even my west Houston suburb has been upgraded to 21F and 22F. I'm now regretting chopping off the leaves of my queen palm 🤬

What temp do queen palm leaves get damaged? 

[Xenon]

Just now, KsLouisiana said:

What temp do queen palm leaves get damaged? 

Around 22-23F-ish, complete defoliation doesn't happen till around 20F from what I've seen 

[PalmsNC]

1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

Temperatures look to have trended milder for Texas in the coming days/nights. Still pretty cold though nonetheless.

 

Portland, Oregon is getting smashed. Damn. About -10C / 14F and snowing currently. Is @Chester B still living there, or did he move to Houston? These are only 9pm temps as well. They are going to get absolutely nuked tonight. 

GFS has trended colder, especially for the European continent next week. These are 6am temperatures on the 20th January.

 

Milder air reaches us on Sunday night, but central Europe still gripped by the freeze. This will need close observation.

 

December was mostly 50's F here and there are tentative signs of 60's F later this month after we get through next week. Also the idea that we have 0 sun and 0 UV is just straight up an exaggeration. The UK isn't Scandinavia or Alaska. We have about 8 hours of daylight right now and UV is around the 2/3 mark already. The sun was shining brightly this morning.

Regarding the lack of 'crazy cold' in western Europe, well we actually had it pretty bad last winter. Parts of London saw their lowest minima in over 30 years, so we had a pretty bad winter 12 months ago, which was almost on par with the exceptionally bad winter of 2010/11 for London and southeast England. It was the 2nd worst winter of my lifetime. So the idea that we have "lucked out for going on 15 years" is a bit of a myth.

But ultimately, any proper, proper cold is declining due to warmer sea temperatures that help moderate the airmass and due to background warming in general. Any polar air masses that do come down just lack the punch that they used to deliver say 20, 50 or 100 years ago. Where I am, January is actually now 1.3C / 3F warmer than it was just 20 years ago looking at the data. So there has clearly been a fair bit of warming going on, which is pretty pronounced since the 1980's especialy.

60s is record warm this time of year there. It seems every other year you are getting a record heat wave in summer.... now Paris every year gets record heat. As for the 0 UV statement its true, scientifically true.. your max sun angle this time of year is 15 degrees above the horizon. Combine that with your average sunshine hours this time of year being well under 100 hours a month and yeah, your UV is 0 ( too low to be a whole number). The UV mark is no way 2-3 right now with a sun angle that low even if it is clear outside. My UV is barely 2-3 on a clear day on solar noon and my sun angle is 31 degrees above the horizon at solar noon.

 

You should link the data, UK weather data is hard to sift through from my experience.

Edited January 14 by PalmsNC

[southpacific73]

Day 2 of polar vortex in metro Vancouver. We hit a low of -13c or 8.6F. Winds have died down considerably now. Temperatures slowly creeping up as the vortex is starting to slide southward. This was a real bad cold spell as it’s being called generational breaking records from the late 60s! Wishing everyone in Texas all the best!

Edited January 14 by southpacific73

[RFun]

2 hours ago, southpacific73 said:

Day 2 of polar vortex in metro Vancouver. We hit a low of -13c or 8.6F. Winds have died down considerably now. Temperatures slowly creeping up as the vortex is starting to slide southward. This was a real bad cold spell as it’s being called generational breaking records from the late 60s! Wishing everyone in Texas all the best!

Little things can make a difference for those plants that are being "tested" by these events.  Areas of wind block (i.e., valleys) can be an important survival factor.  Probably very underrated under these types of extreme conditions.

[Foxpalms]

3 hours ago, PalmsNC said:

60s is record warm this time of year there. It seems every other year you are getting a record heat wave in summer.... now Paris every year gets record heat. As for the 0 UV statement its true, scientifically true.. your max sun angle this time of year is 15 degrees above the horizon. Combine that with your average sunshine hours this time of year being well under 100 hours a month and yeah, your UV is 0 ( too low to be a whole number). The UV mark is no way 2-3 right now with a sun angle that low even if it is clear outside. My UV is barely 2-3 on a clear day on solar noon and my sun angle is 31 degrees above the horizon at solar noon.

 

You should link the data, UK weather data is hard to sift through from my experience.

Even this summer despite the below average July and August, June and September both broke the record as for being the hottest on record. With June averaging 78f which was strange as June usually is the third warmest month of the year. Being inside the urban heat island here it was warmer than were that data was taken from ( London Heathrow). The sun angle here is 17 degrees. I notice the UV to be around a 3 on a clear day at the end of February. The UV today is a 0.7.  It isn't that uncommon to get one or a few days of 60f in Jan. I also agree with data here being hard to find. Especially historical data. It's very hard to find accurate historical data for record lows. Most of the websites sources data are all nearby areas, not the area itself, sometimes even 15+ miles away. 

[Robert Cade Ross]

Freshly installed queens in Midtown Houston. ❄️❄️❄️❄️

[RFun]

17 minutes ago, Cade said:

Freshly installed queens in Midtown Houston. ❄️❄️❄️❄️

Nice.  I like that they are close to the pool there.  That can't hurt anything.

[MarcusH]

7 hours ago, Xenon said:

Around 22-23F-ish, complete defoliation doesn't happen till around 20F from what I've seen 

From my experience leaf brozing already occurs close to the freezing mark . Mine have been like that for a week when temperatures in the morning were cool. I've been told that defoliation of Queen palms start at 25F and below where 20F means kiss goodbye to your Queens.  Of course we will have survivors that will handle quite a few more degrees of cold but that won't be too many. One guy here lost a Queen at 24F.  I was surprised to hear that.  If it's a wet cold I expect it to defoliate at a higher temperature that just 23F especially covered in ice.  Queens should be fine in Houston since it will see 3 to 4 degrees warmer temperatures at the lowest . Thank God our lows won't be that crazy as a matter of fact we'll receive warmer temperatures than in December 2021.  Ultimate low for SA is predicted at 19F , even my area on the NE side only goes down to 18F for 2 hrs only.  Luckily temps during the day will be in the low 30s . I still consider this as a severe freeze but as expected just a regular 8b winter . Nothing unusual.  

[Allen]

Forecasts from negatives F to 5F for me

Mule several fronds cut

Trachy and palmetto

waggy + Trachy

Trachy and Louisiana

Edited January 14 by Allen

[teddytn]

Seems like in the southeast U.S. all the temps have trended warmer…is that what everyone else is seeing? 

[Allen]

8 minutes ago, teddytn said:

Seems like in the southeast U.S. all the temps have trended warmer…is that what everyone else is seeing? 

Yes somewhat but mine keeps showing these pockets of super cold arctic air moving over.  Look at this toward McMinnville.  I had a -11F at one point showing

https://www.ventusky.com/?p=35.64;-86.89;8&l=temperature-2m&t=20240117/1000

 

[MarcusH]

17 minutes ago, teddytn said:

Seems like in the southeast U.S. all the temps have trended warmer…is that what everyone else is seeing? 

Even here in my area in SATX  I went from 14F to 18/19F . That's a good thing but it's still going to be cold . 

[teddytn]

26 minutes ago, Allen said:

Yes somewhat but mine keeps showing these pockets of super cold arctic air moving over.  Look at this toward McMinnville.  I had a -11F at one point showing

https://www.ventusky.com/?p=35.64;-86.89;8&l=temperature-2m&t=20240117/1000

 

Wow that’s interesting, I see what you’re saying with those pockets of cold. I hope that doesn’t happen, seems like reverse of normal the ‘Boro would be colder than Clarksville. Cold air pushing north from further south too it seems 

[teddytn]

20 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Even here in my area in SATX  I went from 14F to 18/19F . That's a good thing but it's still going to be cold . 

That’s good news, you guys don’t need another winter beating 

[teddytn]

30 minutes ago, Allen said:

Yes somewhat but mine keeps showing these pockets of super cold arctic air moving over.  Look at this toward McMinnville.  I had a -11F at one point showing

https://www.ventusky.com/?p=35.64;-86.89;8&l=temperature-2m&t=20240117/1000

 

What about snow, ❄️ I keep seeing differing forecasts. One says only a slight chance of snow tomorrow and then the other says snow tonight and into tomorrow with a possibility up to 6” 

[MarcusH]

21 minutes ago, teddytn said:

That’s good news, you guys don’t need another winter beating 

Yes , definitely even though I expect most Washies to completely defoliate but the fronds grow back in no time. My Queens will look beaten up for a while (if they survive this time) like last year where we got down to 16F on December 22nd, 2021.  I used light protection back then. 

Edited January 14 by MarcusH

[Paradise Found]

Here something really interesting about this morning’s weather. 
weather station says::

temperature 17f …feels like 23f.

25 minutes later it says temp 19f feels like 25f  

humidity 97% on a mostly cloudy morning.  
 

this must mean the worse is over and it’s going to get warmer from now on? That is after one more cold night LOl.  
 

Edited January 14 by Paradise Found

[RFun]

28 minutes ago, teddytn said:

What about snow, ❄️ I keep seeing differing forecasts. One says only a slight chance of snow tomorrow and then the other says snow tonight and into tomorrow with a possibility up to 6” 

Currently showing a range of 2-7F for the low for McMinnville, TN.  Does not seem to be as bad as originally thought.  Snowfall showing 2-4 inches.  Looks like around 4 days below freezing.  The winds will be on the light side.  There are some areas that are experiencing some severe cold.  Parts of Arkansas and Oklahoma are definitely feeling some extreme cold today. 

Edited January 14 by RFun

[Chester B]

@UK_Palms I left Portland last Monday. It had been a very mild winter up to this point. Only 2 or 3 frosts. I feel bad for the people who bought my home, I’m sure a few things won’t make it. Hopefully the big palms all pull through. 

Nothing too scary looking on my forecast here  I have no palms in the ground so not exactly concerned. Hopefully it doesn’t get cold enough to damage all the palms I can see from my backyard.  They all survived Palamageddon and based on their size so they should do ok this time as well.  There are a couple of dead telephone poles in there too. My other neighbors have big Sabals and a big filifera so those will be fine.

 

 

[Harry’s Palms]

I now feel very fortunate here. These stats seem very bad for the Palm folks that live in colder climates. You folks are brave and dedicated….hats off! I should not complain when I see low 40’s f. 

[westfork]

We chose a great year to experiment with in-ground palms. 🥶
Mostly hardiest locations of Sabal minor and their kin and a couple Needles.
The winter started really nice and we didn't bring in the potted palms and agaves until after Christmas.  But winter decided to stop by so we covered the palms on January 7:

and the snow finished the job for us:

At least the snow is giving us a bit of protection:

[MarcusH]

35 minutes ago, Chester B said:

@UK_Palms I left Portland last Monday. It had been a very mild winter up to this point. Only 2 or 3 frosts. I feel bad for the people who bought my home, I’m sure a few things won’t make it. Hopefully the big palms all pull through. 

Nothing too scary looking on my forecast here  I have no palms in the ground so not exactly concerned. Hopefully it doesn’t get cold enough to damage all the palms I can see from my backyard.  They all survived Palamageddon and based on their size so they should do ok this time as well.  There are a couple of dead telephone poles in there too. My other neighbors have big Sabals and a big filifera so those will be fine.

 

 

Robustas might defoliate but come back pretty fast . You would see a decent looking crown in April because here in Texas it warms up fast after February.  Get used to telephone poles because Texans love the look of dead palms.  This isn't beautiful Florida where you move to ,this is Texas lol where dead palms , litter and other environmental problems are common lol. 

Edited January 14 by MarcusH

[matthedlund]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:23 PM, Paradise Found said:

Looks like two days will be below freezing before going above freezing. Low looks like low 20s to mid 20s for two nights.  And snow Friday and Sunday 3”.  Then warming up. 
 

The Tree Fern is all bundled up!