Polar Vortex

[Dwarf Fan]

Icey rain/light snow a wet 29F (North Padre Island) Corpus Christi, TX.

Thrinax Radiata got a bucket with a rock on top everyone else is left to nature’s discretion. 

[Swolte]

Woke up to a wintery landscape. As close to predicted, we went down to around 20F today with similar conditions as Marcus describes. Tomorrow, the cloud cover will be gone and the real test will begin!

[ChicagoPalma]

Corpus Christi is still expected to go below freezing.

[teddytn]

Nice cozy blanket of snow to go with the 11f today in middle TN. Snow is super dry, will honestly help with the single digits coming here tomorrow 

[Chester B]

I went down to 32F and there has been a few rain drops.  Today and tonight are expected to be my coldest.  I've got some thermometers in the yard this morning in an old play house so they'll be sheltered and off the ground.  Interesting to see what we get too.

[Swolte]

5 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I went down to 32F and there has been a few rain drops.  Today and tonight are expected to be my coldest.  I've got some thermometers in the yard this morning in an old play house so they'll be sheltered and off the ground.  Interesting to see what we get too.

What a welcome to Texas!

[Foxpalms]

Cold and dry in central London at the moment. It's only 4.30pm right now so I wonder what the temperature will drop to. The high was only 5c. The weather next week looks much better.

[Chester B]

37 minutes ago, Swolte said:

What a welcome to Texas!

The bad weather has been on my tail the whole trip down here.  Once we stopped it caught up with us.  Back in Portland it's near apocalyptic with high winds, ice, snow, record breaking cold and last time I checked over 120,000 without power.

[Xenon]

Currently 26F with sleet on the ground in west Houston 'burbs after a high of 29.5F at midnight. Central Houston is 29-30F at the moment, while the bayside areas are at 33F, and Galveston still no freeze at 36F.

The RGV is expected to hover just above freezing all day but heavy cloud cover is preventing the temperatures from dropping further and should persist through the entirey of this event. South Padre still has a good chance of slipping by with 10B 

Edited January 15 by Xenon

[DAVEinMB]

SC coast about to get hit too. It's amazing the difference in temperature predictions just west of the Intracoastal Waterway

[jwf1983]

I don’t understand this about some folks in Texas, so I apologize.  People seem so surprised when these polar vortex incidents occur.  While there are surely some years where temps don’t dip too low, these polar vortexes do seem to occur fairly regularly in Texas.  Additionally, there are no mountain ranges or geophysical barriers to prevent arctic air from spilling deep into Texas.   I’m in Washington, DC, and people often overstate the cold here, for various reasons.  We may have several years go by without a temp below 22-24 degrees during winter, but I know temps will dip well below any given, year.  Like I said, we expect it here.  I feel like people in Dallas, Austin, areas outside the immediate gulf coast should be expecting this cold every year, because it seems to happen regularly.

[Xenon]

1 minute ago, jwf1983 said:

I don’t understand this about some folks in Texas, so I apologize.  People seem so surprised when these polar vortex incidents occur.  While there are surely some years where temps don’t dip too low, these polar vortexes do seem to occur fairly regularly in Texas.  Additionally, there are no mountain ranges or geophysical barriers to prevent arctic air from spilling deep into Texas.   I’m in Washington, DC, and people often overstate the cold here, for various reasons.  We may have several years go by without a temp below 22-24 degrees during winter, but I know temps will dip well below any given, year.  Like I said, we expect it here.  I feel like people in Dallas, Austin, areas outside the immediate gulf coast should be expecting this cold every year, because it seems to happen regularly.

The 30 year average at Houston Hobby Airport is ~28F (IAH is 26F) so excuse us complaining when it might hit teens and freeze for days on end. Having something so stastically below average occur especially 3 out of the last 4 winters is absolutely soul crushing. Hobby didn't record a single low below 20F from 1990-2017 (27 twenty seven years) and suddenly this is happening the last few years. Most of my life and memories in Houston are filled with citrus and queen palms, not this recent nightmare. 

[Meangreen94z]

3 minutes ago, jwf1983 said:

I don’t understand this about some folks in Texas, so I apologize.  People seem so surprised when these polar vortex incidents occur.  While there are surely some years where temps don’t dip too low, these polar vortexes do seem to occur fairly regularly in Texas.  Additionally, there are no mountain ranges or geophysical barriers to prevent arctic air from spilling deep into Texas.   I’m in Washington, DC, and people often overstate the cold here, for various reasons.  We may have several years go by without a temp below 22-24 degrees during winter, but I know temps will dip well below any given, year.  Like I said, we expect it here.  I feel like people in Dallas, Austin, areas outside the immediate gulf coast should be expecting this cold every year, because it seems to happen regularly.

Well an interest in weather and non native species of plants kind of go hand and hand. Even growing hardy species, winters like the last 3-4 will disfigure them for at-least the first half of the growing season. Most enthusiasts also make a few zone pushes, and people like me enjoy tracking the weather and making an attempt to protect them. 

[jwf1983]

We had our lowest minimum (tie) of the winter so far at 26 degrees F.  Colder nights to come.  To this point we’ve had just 7 nights dip below freezing for brief periods at dawn, with one of those nights lasting 6 hours at 26 degrees (November 29, 2023) 4 Sagos, Trachy f. Majesty Palm, Ponytail Palm, Strawberry Guava. So far ok. 

[Robert Cade Ross]

2 hours ago, Dwarf Fan said:

Icey rain/light snow a wet 29F (North Padre Island) Corpus Christi, TX.

Thrinax Radiata got a bucket with a rock on top everyone else is left to nature’s discretion. 

Freezing rain in Alvin now …. 36° trying to cover the citrus I don’t want the getting ice buildup they are still so small under 5’ 

[UK_Palms]

Temps are absolutely tanking to f*ck here under the clear skies now this evening. After a max of 4.3C / 40F here, I am already down to -1.8C / 30F at 6pm. It is going to be a very cold night with zero cloud cover. The coldest night of the season by far to come.

I’m not sure many places will escape an air frost tonight outside of the Isles of Scilly. Perhaps a few places in coastal Cornwall and Devon maybe. I doubt anywhere in London will be able to remain frost free with -10C hPa’s (air mass) overhead and about 16-17 hours of radiational cooling.

 

The Isles of Scilly haven’t registered an air frost in January for 27 years since back in January 1997. The official Met Office station on St Mary’s is reporting 6.3C / 43F at 6pm. Frost is almost unheard of over there nowadays. At 50N latitude, the Isles of Scilly seem to be more protected than San Padre Island in Texas at 26N. Certainly in recent decades anyway. That’s 24 degrees latitude of difference between the two as well. That shows how exposed Texas is in general to these polar intrusions.

[FMG]

Low so far 12 here in north DFW on the lake. Went all out on the protection , especially as it’s the first year in the ground for a lot of this. 
 

Haven’t had to fire up the NFL sideline heaters yet but have them on hand just in case. On my test run I exceeded electrical capacity for that outlet and lost all of my other heating protection, so chose to leave them off, unless absolutely necessary. Was able to keep CIDP @25 degrees with the tent and regular space heater and everything else above 20.
 

large mule trunk wrapped with incandescent Xmas lights but too large to cover. This is the tree I’m most worried about.
 

left one armata and all Florida sabal unprotected.

Young 5ft Chilean wine palms got lights, frost cloth and wrap.

 
 

 

[_nevi]

54 minutes ago, Xenon said:

The 30 year average at Houston Hobby Airport is ~28F (IAH is 26F) so excuse us complaining when it might hit teens and freeze for days on end. Having something so stastically below average occur especially 3 out of the last 4 winters is absolutely soul crushing. Hobby didn't record a single low below 20F from 1990-2017 (27 twenty seven years) and suddenly this is happening the last few years. Most of my life and memories in Houston are filled with citrus and queen palms, not this recent nightmare. 

The most soul-crushing part is that these outbreaks always seem to be stuck in Texas. They just don't move an inch east anymore.

[Sabal King]

We bottomed out this morning at 9.9f, which is lower than last years lows of 10.6f.  Rising nicely now, sunny for the next 3-4 days solid, lows again overnight, but sun again first thing and we are past the worst of this nonsense.  Almost feels warm enough to jump in the pool again!  Need to do a day two update video at some point, so look for another update.

[Allen]

On 1/14/2024 at 9:51 AM, teddytn said:

Wow that’s interesting, I see what you’re saying with those pockets of cold. I hope that doesn’t happen, seems like reverse of normal the ‘Boro would be colder than Clarksville. Cold air pushing north from further south too it seems 

Can someone fire the people that make these models?

Click here and look up Shelbyville, TN and look at 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 am on Wed morning

https://www.ventusky.com/?p=35.48;-86.75;7&l=temperature-2m&t=20240117/1200

 

 

[jwf1983]

I never said anything about Houston, and particularly around the gulf coast or Texas, or other coastal locations.  I mentioned places like Dallas or Austin, places inland.  So they’re that.  I wouldn’t expect Houston to have nearly the extremes other parts of the state have.  And my point stands with those places, outside of the gulf influences.  It seems like the severe cold is every year.  So with that whatever you choose, but people in those locations shouldn’t be surprised by that.  And I’m not sure why people get defensive—it’s just reality in 90% of North America.

[PalmsNC]

29 minutes ago, _nevi said:

The most soul-crushing part is that these outbreaks always seem to be stuck in Texas. They just don't move an inch east anymore.

As a resident of North Carolina thank you for taking this cold. It’s in the 60s across a lot of the state right now. Ok sorry I sound like an asshole, I’m just glad we escaped this. I don’t like seeing it because it just means we are all still capable of bone crushing cold. So much for global warming , maybe this is all a fluke and 20 years from now Houston will be a zone 10A climate … I wish 

[teddytn]

33 minutes ago, Allen said:

Can someone fire the people that make these models?

Click here and look up Shelbyville, TN and look at 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 am on Wed morning

https://www.ventusky.com/?p=35.48;-86.75;7&l=temperature-2m&t=20240117/1200

 

 

😳😳

[Marco67]

It's pretty chilly here as well. Fortunately, when the wind comes straight from the north, it blows over the North Sea which warms it up a bit. 

 

 

[_nevi]

11 minutes ago, jwf1983 said:

I never said anything about Houston, and particularly around the gulf coast or Texas, or other coastal locations.  I mentioned places like Dallas or Austin, places inland.  So they’re that.  I wouldn’t expect Houston to have nearly the extremes other parts of the state have.  And my point stands with those places, outside of the gulf influences.  It seems like the severe cold is every year.  So with that whatever you choose, but people in those locations shouldn’t be surprised by that.  And I’m not sure why people get defensive—it’s just reality in 90% of North America.

Actually,  even inland TX cities like Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio, these recent string of years have been quite potent in terms of cold compared to the years in the 1991-2020 period that @Xenon referenced.  2021 brought 7b temps to Austin and San Antonio, quite below their respective averages. DFW's 6b in 2021 was also quite below their average. 
 

7 minutes ago, PalmsNC said:

As a resident of North Carolina thank you for taking this cold. It’s in the 60s across a lot of the state right now. Ok sorry I sound like an asshole, I’m just glad we escaped this. I don’t like seeing it because it just means we are all still capable of bone crushing cold. So much for global warming , maybe this is all a fluke and 20 years from now Houston will be a zone 10A climate … I wish 

I was more just emphasizing @Xenon's point. But yeah, I overall agree regarding the problem of bone-crushing cold.

There looks to be another cold shot this coming weekend (Sat/Sun). That is one last hurdle before a complete escape can be confirmed.

[Xenon]

20 minutes ago, jwf1983 said:

I never said anything about Houston, and particularly around the gulf coast or Texas, or other coastal locations.  I mentioned places like Dallas or Austin, places inland.  So they’re that.  I wouldn’t expect Houston to have nearly the extremes other parts of the state have.  And my point stands with those places, outside of the gulf influences.  It seems like the severe cold is every year.  So with that whatever you choose, but people in those locations shouldn’t be surprised by that.  And I’m not sure why people get defensive—it’s just reality in 90% of North America.

You aren't the first person in this thread to instigate, downplay the objectively very below average conditions in the great majority of Texas, and/or make nonsensical comparisons to other parts of the world all while this soul crushing cold is actively happening. Why are you in this thread about a polar vortex in Texas telling us our problems and suffering gardens aren't problems and suffering? You'd expect more empathy and decency from a palm forum of all places. 

I'm glad you're having a very mild winter so far and wish you and your plants the best. I hope next winter is warm or at least average for us all. 

[MarcusH]

4 minutes ago, Xenon said:

You aren't the first person in this thread to instigate, downplay the objectively very below average conditions in the great majority of Texas, and/or make nonsensical comparisons to other parts of the world all while this soul crushing cold is actively happening. Why are you in this thread about a polar vortex in Texas telling us our problems and suffering gardens aren't problems and suffering? You'd expect more empathy and decency from a palm forum of all places. 

I'm glad you're having a very mild winter so far and wish you and your plants the best. I hope next winter is warm or at least average for us all. 

Exactly, Jonathan.  We're palm enthusiast and more. We have feelings too also we put a lot of effort into our hobby .  We don't even talk about a palmaggedon but it's sad to see defoliation all over again without getting one break.  The same happens to San Antonio too. 

[jwf1983]

8 minutes ago, Xenon said:

You aren't the first person in this thread to instigate, downplay the objectively very below average conditions in the great majority of Texas, and/or make nonsensical comparisons to other parts of the world all while this soul crushing cold is actively happening. Why are you in this thread about a polar vortex in Texas telling us our problems and suffering gardens aren't problems and suffering? You'd expect more empathy and decency from a palm forum of all places. 

I'm glad you're having a very mild winter so far and wish you and your plants the best. I hope next winter is warm or at least average for us all. 

I wish you and your plants the best, as well.  Texas is not the only place this is happening.  It’s 80% of the country, including here, north/central Florida, Louisiana, virtually everywhere.  While I agree that this is abnormal for Houston, history does show similar cold impacts elsewhere in Texas fairly regularly throughout history.  That said, I certainly don’t want anyone with the same love of plants that I have to experience loss or devastating winters.  North America is a rough place climatologically speaking. Dynamic.  Some more than others, sure, but we all must prepare for extremes.  It’s an extreme landmass. 

[Chester B]

I'm currently sitting at 28F with the odd bit of snow.  Definitely not what I was expecting moving here, hopefully this is the last I see of it.

[ChicagoPalma]

Currently sitting at 0F. The cold air will finally be gone next week monday, still being in the negative double digits for the next couple of days. In the meantime, we are all in this hell hole, and I wish @Allen's palms and plants the best. Especially those cannas and elephant ears and the butia & Mule. The trachycarpus will be fine. 

 

[Sabal King]

OK so day two updates and live observations.

- Sabal bermudana (underperformer). It is NOT leaf hardy down to 9.9f lol. It did the same thing last year. Check the video but it shows damage right away. All three behaved the same, doesn't matter the sighting.
- Sabal urensas (surprised me). Doesn't look as bad as last year.. maybe it won't behave like it's neighbor, the bermudana(s).
- Sabal lisa (two of them, look great) like last year
- Sabal birmingham, louisiana, minors, brazoriensis. Minor shriveling of the fronds, but they're still going through the event, so we will see them bounce back in a few days. This happened last year.
- Sabal mexicana (younger ones fried much like the bermudanas) but the older one that went through '21 and lived to tell about it, uncovered... actually looks better, and better every year. Supports my thesis that these are long term hardy here, just need to be planted young, and watch them harden off in our climate.
- Sabal urensas (south side specimen). Crazy but it did the same thing last year that is shriveled, looked dead, and fried, and literally two weeks later, looks like nothing happened.
- Sabal palmetto (out in the yard). Never covered, neglected, and sure enough... looks... fine?!
- Sabal riverside(s) - Looking surprisingly ok for now.
- Sabal maritima - one looks awful, one is fine (likely sighting) but this is a big gamble to try here.
- Sabal guatemalensis - Again looks beaten up, and was a gamble I was trying.
- Sabal tamulipas - look perfect
- Sabal blackburniana - The bigger 5g one last year first winter in the ground got crushed... burned, just like the bermudana, but this year, seems to have hardened off, and only one frond looks like that. Last year, it showed damage right away (interesting observation).   Are they sold and marketed interchangeably? Two other blackburnianas from PDN look fine..
- Washingtonia filifera (DFW '21 survivor genetics). They're under frost cloths, but will not protect them after this year. Curious to see what those look like.

Part 1 of this walk-through - https://youtu.be/J09j1rq_P2c
Part 2 of this walk-through - https://youtu.be/XBj9XL4HYpc

Butia x Jubea, Jubea x Butia, Butia, Nannhrrops and all of the ones in the back, I didn't bother to go visit today.. just too much walking and too cold, hah. There's a Sabal causiarum that has made it through the last few winters beaten, and battered, but chugs on so we will see. I will do a video reveal of those later this week.

[Robert Cade Ross]

10 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I'm currently sitting at 28F with the odd bit of snow.  Definitely not what I was expecting moving here, hopefully this is the last I see of it.

Welcome to Texas 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩 9B some years 8A the other years 😆

[mthteh1916]

On 1/12/2024 at 2:42 PM, MarcusH said:

I agree with you about the weather pattern however I'm not agreeing on what grows in the U.S. . I've been living in Germany for most of my life ( born and raised ) . I've seen most of Europe and been around the block in the U.S. a few time so long story short that statement it would blow my mind isn't true.  Hardiness Zones reach up to 11 on U.S. main land but correct me if I'm wrong .  I've been to Florida North to South nowhere in Europe I have seen such a tropical landscape not even on those Spanish islands 😑.  We also have California with its Mediterranean climate to offer. Coastal areas in SoCali can pretty much grow anything your heart desires except palms that require more humidity and more hotter days in general.  As for Texas goes yes we can't grow many varieties but that doesn't make it less fun.  Why is a Sabal boring?  I personally appreciate all kinds of palms . If you look for tropical palms Europe doesn't even show up on that list. 

 

I was talking about places that are at latitude 45 in France can grow far more tender vegetation than places much lower latitude in North America. Compare places all throughout southern France to what can grow in Jackson, MS lets say. The inland south gets far colder than the inland areas of Italy, Spain, Greece, France, etc. These places are at the latitude of Ohio and north.  Toulouse France is zone 9A compared to anywhere in the inland south which is 8A to 8B. But Toulouse is at latitude 43N.  Nice on the coast is zone 9b. Places in southern Italy are 10a. All these locations are much further north than the SE US. The thing about Florida is that it is the one location in eastern North America that has lower differences between its avg low and its record lows. This is due to the shape of FL with warm water on either side. Even Orlando is in the same zone as the coastal Med in Europe. That is incredible given the latitude differences. The record low in Brownsville, TX is 12F at sea level and at the latitude of 25N. Coldest place on earth at sea level at that latitude bar none. Not a single place on the planet where Brownsville is has ever gotten to 12F. 

[mthteh1916]

3 minutes ago, Cade said:

Welcome to Texas 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩 9B some years 8A the other years 😆

Exactly. Imagine living in Brownsville TX with all your tropical veg and you hit 12F, which it did. 

[mthteh1916]

On 1/13/2024 at 9:54 AM, Foxpalms said:

That is what I try to do here take advantage of my microclimate and grow and experiment with palms and tropical plants. There might be better places to on Earth to grow palms, but since they will grow and some do pretty well here might as well take advantage of that. It is certainly a lot nicer to look into the garden and see king palms ect than just a grass lawn and deciduous trees. I'm guessing that is why most people on here grow palms because they look nice and make the garden more visually appealing.

That is why I love living here in Fort Lauderdale.  Right now in January you see nothing but green trees, flowers, palms, etc. We have very few deciduous trees around. I don't like that people plant crepe myrtle here cause they don't get enough chill hours and look awful both summer and winter. Ugh. 

[mthteh1916]

23 hours ago, Xenon said:

It's brutal out there in Dallas-Ft. Worth

 

Even Austin and San Antonio/I-35 corridor already well below or near freezing at 3pm 

 

Houston sitting in the balmy 50s

And the Valley flirting with 80 degrees 🤣

 Thankfully the days of the brutal cold 1980's are behind us hopefully to never return. I remember watching the weather channel in the 80's and the heartbreak citrus farmers in Florida and South Texas went thru. Brutal then. No where near that level of cold this go around.  Hopefully we never see that kind of citrus tree killing temps we did then. 

[mthteh1916]

On 1/14/2024 at 8:49 AM, MarcusH said:

From my experience leaf brozing already occurs close to the freezing mark . Mine have been like that for a week when temperatures in the morning were cool. I've been told that defoliation of Queen palms start at 25F and below where 20F means kiss goodbye to your Queens.  Of course we will have survivors that will handle quite a few more degrees of cold but that won't be too many. One guy here lost a Queen at 24F.  I was surprised to hear that.  If it's a wet cold I expect it to defoliate at a higher temperature that just 23F especially covered in ice.  Queens should be fine in Houston since it will see 3 to 4 degrees warmer temperatures at the lowest . Thank God our lows won't be that crazy as a matter of fact we'll receive warmer temperatures than in December 2021.  Ultimate low for SA is predicted at 19F , even my area on the NE side only goes down to 18F for 2 hrs only.  Luckily temps during the day will be in the low 30s . I still consider this as a severe freeze but as expected just a regular 8b winter . Nothing unusual.  

is Austin now a 9a or 9b? Going down to a zone 8b on one or two nights from a zone 9a isn't that extraordinary. Lets hope it doesn't drop to far into zone 8b. 

[Foxpalms]

6 minutes ago, mthteh1916 said:

That is why I love living here in Fort Lauderdale.  Right now in January you see nothing but green trees, flowers, palms, etc. We have very few deciduous trees around. I don't like that people plant crepe myrtle here cause they don't get enough chill hours and look awful both summer and winter. Ugh. 

The councils here keep planting deciduous trees. But those trees in the summer get damaged by summer heatwaves and droughts and look bad. You will still see evergreen trees but I just wish they would plants rows of eucalyptus trees instead of London plane trees. As we don't need zone 4b trees in a zone 9a-10a climate.

[Harry’s Palms]

I texted my brother in Lebanon , Tennessee this morning and it was 10f . He responded and said it may get up to 15f. I suddenly felt warmer!!I don't think he has any palm trees.

[Foxpalms]

Definitely code red for parts of west London tonight. I had to travel there to drop something off quickly. Setting off the car thermometer was 35f/1.5c and in north west London the car thermometer is reading -3c/27f. at 9.30pm! There's not much frost though due to the low humidity.